1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF MARC BARON CONDUCTED BY Corporal Jason McMullen CASE NUMBER 11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Today is December 6th , 2011 at 1329 hours. Corporal Jason McMullen and Corporal Mike Segreaves of the Orange County Sheriff's Office talking to Marc Baron. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q Q A A Q A Q A Q A Yes. Is that correct, alright. Um what's your birthday Marc? 02/24/1988. Alright. And is there a address for you, a home address? Local or back home? If you, both if you have. I mean the local is 40 1 Putnam Drive, apartment 1433, Tallahassee Florida 3 2 301. Alright what about at home? 1 16 Swan Parkway. (Knocking) Swan, like a bird. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Can we trade places ... Yes a bird. Street. Swan Parkway East. 1 Baron Marc/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/14/11 1 Q We're just gonna switch up a little bit here. This is Detect; Detective uh Chiota's uh switching spots uh ... 2 3 4 A Royal Palm Beach Florida. 3 3 4 11. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 5 6 Q 33411? Yes. And what about a phone number? 5 6 1 6 0 1 1 9 5 6. Alright. And you're in the band correct? Yes. What part of the band? Percussion. Percussion, alright. Um did you go to Orlando for The Florida Classic? Yeah I did. Alright what bus did you ride? A Q 7 8 9 10 11 A Q A Q 12 13 14 A Q A Q A Q A 15 16 17 18 "Bus C". "Bus C", alright. Um did you ride the bus back from the game Friday? Friday, yes I did. Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 19 20 Q 21 22 23 24 Q A Q The battle of the bands? Yeah the battle of the bands. Okay. I'm sorry what was your first name? Marc. Marc. A Q 25 2 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Baron. Baron. BA R RON? BARO N. Okay. It's Marc with a C. MAR C, okay. Okay so uh from the battle of the bands to the hotel. Un huh (Affirmative) Uh you understand what we're doing is we're trying to find out what's going on so just be as honest with us, uh with everything that you can. Okay don't worry about how it's gonna effect you, worry about that later on okay. A Q A Q A Q A Q Alright So from the band, from the battle ofthe bands to the ... The hotel. ... hotel, what happens on the bus? Well to be honest with you I was just relaxing and then they uh decided to give some people hot seats. A Q A Q Okay. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Where were you sitting? Me I was sitting, like this is the back probably right around here, like close ... So close to the back? Yeah. Okay. So they decided to give the people hot seats and after that they decided to give the people hot seats and they were done with that we uh, they said they were A Q A Q A 3 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q gonna cross some people. So I said okay, it didn't matter to me cause I was suppose to meet with my girlfriend and her sister to go get something to eat but her sister bailed so me and my girlfriend was gonna get something to eat. So and there were some people talking about, like some people (inaudible) talking about they had to spray paint the bottom of the shoes for the red bottom, it was a effect we were doing for uh the Saturday show, field show. So they were saying they had to do that and after that that's all. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay when you coming back from the, so the, the bus is moving. Yeah. Right. You, and you um done a cross over? Yeah. Okay when did you cross over? January 2009. 2009, okay. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Where did that hap, where at? Um Atlanta. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Atlanta. Yeah. Okay and um did you have to do the hot seat first? Un huh (Affirmative) Correct, okay. How many hot seats did you do? I did 4. 4 Baron MarcfCase #11-101834NWf12f14f11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q Four. Yeah. Okay. And who was the uh, uh the person that, some of the stuff we already know but we need to make sure that so we're not, we get it straight from you. Whose the person that determines who's gonna be in the hot seat? A Q A Q Um the bus president. The bus president, who's the bus president uh at the time that you did yours? To be honest I really don't know. Okay. Uh and just so we not use, we're all using the same term we have all the same understanding, what is a hot seat, you describe hot seat to us. A Okay it's where you get in like the last seat on the right hand side. They'll tell you to get in the position you know like this, cover your head. Q Okay so the tape can't see this so what you're doing is you're putting, the, is there, is there a position they call that? A Q Uh, nah they just say get in the position. Okay. But then it's the hot seat and you, basically what you're de, showing is that you're putting your head down between your legs. A Q A Q A Yeah and you put your uh your hands over your, your head. Your head. To protect yourself. To protect yourself. Yeah. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A Are you, are you in the back of the bus when you're doing that? Yes. 5 Baron Marc/Case #11?1 01834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. And then the put a uh, a blanket over you and they beat you for about, like, to, from like a set period of time. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) A Q What's that period of time? You don't know. (Laughter) A A Q You don't know. So for you how long was it? I mean the average ... Roughly. .. ,the average is about like 3 or 4 minutes. Three or four minutes, that's a long time. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) A Q A Q Q So it's, it's different every time? Yeah it, yeah you don't know. Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) A Q Q But the person who determines that is the bus president? I mean, I mean they don't determine how long, they just say after a while just like okay send them back up and then that's it. A Q Okay but the, who's, who determines that time? Oh um yeah the, the president. The bus president, okay. Alright and um did you um, uh what do they use when they um, when you're getting your hot seat? A Q 6 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 A Q I mean they, its different things, like some people use their fist. Okay. Uh they kick, use drumsticks, bass drum mallards. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 2 3 A 4 5 6 7 Q They kick on the hot seat? Yeah. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) A 8 9 Q How do they kick you if you're sitting down? I mean they're suppose to hit your back right? 10 11 A Q I mean yeah but they, also you can hit the sides. Oh you can hit the sides? Yeah. Okay. That's kinda hard when you're sitting, do they actually land a punch, a, a, a kick with the ... 12 13 14 A Q 15 16 17 A Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I bet it hurts huh. Yeah. Um okay so they can kick you, the fist and drum sticks you said? Yeah. Now are they using the drum stick to, to stab you with it? No not stab you with it. .. Oh okay. ... it's like hit you across the back. Q A Q 18 19 A Q 20 21 22 23 24 A Q A Q 25 A 7 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Like playing like you're a drum? Yeah. How, does it hurt? I mean it does later on. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) A Q A Q Doesn't feel good (laughter). Yeah it doesn't feel good but it's like, I remember like the first, not the first but like the last time I, I did it, it was like I got hit and then after it when I went back to the front I was fine. Like it, it didn't hurt; it was just like I was just upset I got one that's all. A Q How ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q You were upset? Yeah. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) A Q When, when you say you get, did the hot seat 4 times, is that. .. It's ... A Q .. .4 different trips? Yeah 4 different trips. Okay. Nah it wasn't all at once. You what? It wasn't all at once. Okay. It was in 4 separate occasions. A Q A Q A Q A 8 Baron Marc/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Q A Q A And why did you get 4? I mean." Are you a leader? Nah. Were you set up to be a leader, is that why some people ... Nah it's, it's, it depends, I, I don't know who does ali that but it's just, they try to get everybody like a certain number of hot seats and then is like, like I know with me like after, after we did The Classic in 08 it was me and a, it was me, a girl and another guy. Like we did, we were, like they didn't finish everybody so we had to wait until that we did the uh inauguration trip to do it. Q A Q To do the hot seat or the crossing? No the, the crossing. Okay. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Q A Q A Q A (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Once you do the cross over you're done with hot seat... Yeah. ... you're done, that's it. Done. And you only do that once. Yeah, you only cross once. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. Um did you ever have to, your, the hot seat, did you ever get sick, did you ever throw up? Nah. 9 Baron Marc/Case #11?101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A Q A Did you ever lose consciousness? Nah just sore and stuff but... Sore. That's nothing ... Okay. Alright urn and when you did the cross over uh did you get sick or .. ' 1 meanl ... ... did you ever get dizzy or ... ... 1threw up because of, I ate some, I think it was Burger King or Wendy's before. Q A Un huh (Affirmative) And then when I went through I was throwing that up but after, beside that no dizziness or anything like that, just vomiting the food that was in my system. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q And uh but, but it wasn't because of the bad food it was because of the ... Yeah it... ... the action. ... yeah it's because ... Is, is it pretty strenuous? I mean to be honest with you it depends of who you are. Un huh (Affirmative) And how you, how you react to pain. Right. That's, that's (inaudible), it really was (inaudible). When you did your cross over did anybody help you? Oh yeah. Yeah. 10 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q Yeah. I mean is that standard to have somebody ... Yeah it's, it's very standard. Okay. How long does it take you to get from the, the, and te, describe the cross over so I don't use terms, the same terms. A Okay well it's, you start in the beginning and you go, you try to find your way to the back. Q A Q A Q A Of, of the bus? Yeah the bus. Is it always on the same bus? Um I think. I mean is it on "Bus H" or is it always on "Bus C"? I mean I think we've done some crossings that weren't on "Bus C" but I'm not, I don't really, I just act like, they're just like hey hop on the bus where the crossing, I'm like okay whatever. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A Are they per, percussionist the only one that do it? No, no I mean you, you don't have to be a percussionist to actually get uh, get licensed on the bus and all that stuff, you could be in any section but it's just you have to ride the bus and you know get some hot seats, that's the only like requirement really. Q Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A That's how you get respect. I mean it's not really respect it's just, it's like just the ... 11 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Earning your spot. Yeah it's not even earning a spot it's just, you're just like (inaudible), It's, in a certain way respect but it's not really respect it's just, you just like band credentials really, (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) A 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Now can t sax person,:, Yeah, .. ,do a cross over. Yeah, And they do it on", Yeah, "Bus C", .. ,"Bus Cl' , Yeah, Okay, Alright. Okay so who are the people urn that uh .. , (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) A Q A Q A Q A Q Q How", (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q I'm sorry go ahead, (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q .. ,how many people are normally on the bus during the cross over? It depends, like it varies from time to time, Just how many people are around and .. , Yeah, .. ,wanna be there, A Q A Q 12 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yeah. Pretty much. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q And is it anybody to determine who, I mean how come the whole band doesn't show up? I mean ... A They don't want to do it. (Laughter) Q Alright um ... (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Do you have to have gone through the cross over in order to, I, I don't, what do you call the people that are actually administering the, the beating? A Q A Q I mean people who have crossed ... So you have to have done the cross over before you can give a beating? Yeah. Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Um so um who was getting the uh hot seats from the battle of the bands to the hotel Friday night? A Q A Q Uh it was I think Evan. Evan Calhoun? Yeah. Okay. Jamon. Green. Yeah. Okay. A Q A Q 13 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Other people I really don't remember. How many were there? I don't remember I jUSt. .. Okay. ... 1remember those two. Okay did you, did you see, did you participate in it? Nah. Okay. How come you couldn't participate in it. I mean I just didn't feel like it really. Un huh (Affirmative). Well describe what happen with them. I mean it was just a normal hot seat, you know they just sat in there, sat in the seat and got hit really. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A Q A Q And the, um how long period of time did they get? I mean like I said the average, like 3 or 4 minutes. Okay and how many, is this while the bus is moving right? Yeah. Okay. Um was Robert one of those people? Nah he wasn't on the bus. He wasn't on the bus at all? Nah he wasn't on the bus at all. Okay. Okay and then um did they do a crossing, was there a crossing Friday night? A Q A Yeah there was. Okay were you present there? No. 14 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q Okay. That's, that's when I said I was with my girlfriend, we decided to get something to eat cause we were hungry. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) A Q Who did the crossing do you know? Uh whoever was on the bus and I didn't see ... No I mean who uh who went through, who crossed over? I know it was Evan, oh it was one more person there, it was Evan, Jamon and I think (inaudible), yeah the kid Rocker, Edwin Rocker. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) A Q A 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q Un huh (Affirmative) Yeah he, he did it. So he did the hot seat? Yeah he did the hot seat as well. Okay and then he, there was a crossing ... (Inaudible) ... but yeah you weren't present when the crossing was going on? Nah. Okay. Then how did you know who did he crossing, who told you that? Oh I didn't find out until I got on the bus the next morning when we were headed to the uh stadium. A Q A Q A Q A Q 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q And who did you hear made the crossing? I mean I just got on the bus and then it was like after a crossing, we, like everybody knows like (inaudible) and all that stuff... A Q (Laughter) 15 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q ... sothat's what it pretty much was. Okay and who did you hear that had made it? I mean everybody ... Those three? Yeah those three. Okay. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Now for the hot seat there can't be as many people administering the beating as there is ... A Q A Q Yeah. ... with the crossing over correct? Yes. It's prob, cause there small area, it's only a few people. Do you know who was back there Friday night administering ... A Q A Nah only (inaudible) I wasn't really paying attention to that. Who normally does that? I mean it, whoever wants to. Like if, like say if you had license and it was somebody sitting there, if you wanted to you be like well I'm a get up and do whatever. But it, there's no like set oh you have to do this and all this, like if you wanna go, go hit that person ... Q They just take turns, like somebody go back, kick, coup, take a couple of couple of licks and then walk away and somebody else go back? A Yeah pretty much. 16 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Okay and uh so you go, you find out Saturday, Saturday from the game to the hotel, did you ride "Bus C"? A Q No I didn't. So how'd you get back to the hotel? Well what I did was after the game I told somebody I was gonna leave with my parents and I, after that it was me, my sister, my mom, my girlfriend, her cousin, we walked to where the cars were parked like probably about a mile, half a mile away from the stadium, cause we were parked in somebody's yard. And then after we waited for my girlfriend's parents to come so then we all you know said our good byes then from there me and my girlfriend, my mom, my sister and her cousin, we all went to, we were trying to find a place to eat so we decided on a Friday's, a TGI Friday's. So we were driving and it took us like forever because you know the traffic during that time. A 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Q Un huh (Affirmative) It's so many cars so I got to Friday's; we ate then by the time I got back to the hotel about 11 :20, 30 (inaudible). From there I was just waiting for my mom because she was getting instructions to get back to, back home from the hotel. And where is, is uh your home? Uh Royal Palm Beach. Royal Palm Beach, okay. So uh when did you hear about what happen to Robert? Weill didn't know he died, I, somebody told me that he, he went to the hospital and they said it might have been like related to the bus, I said okay that's cool. And then after I went into my hotel room with my girlfriend and then my A A Q 17 Baron Marc/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 roommate that was in the room was already sleeping so we didn't wanna make noises so we just went to sleep. Then the next morning like I woke up like early for, I don't know why it was just I woke up early. And then somebody called me and was like "Oh what happen to Robert", I was like "Oh he uh, he went to the hospital why", they was like "Nah he died", I'm like "What are you talking about", he's like "No Robert died", it's like, I was like "Oh". Cause I didn't know. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 8 9 Did, was he suppose to, was he scheduled to do the cross over or ... I did, I didn't know. Cause I didn't even think he was gonna get on to be honest with you. A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q Did he ride the bus to the game? No. From the hotel to the game? No. No. No it was just percussionist and, well everybody who was on the bus was, whose name was on the bus that was there ... A Q A Q A 18 19 Q Un huh (Affirmative) .. ,for, who left Friday or Whatever and then the one drum major cause that's usually always one drum major on the bus and then the band staff, whichever, whoever band staff is there. A 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q So he wasn't assigned to "Bus C" ... No ... .. , Robert wasn't. ... he wasn't. A Q A 18 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Is it normal for the stuff that happened after the bus gets to its location, like ... Oh you mean like the crossing? Yeah. Yeah pretty much. Okay. So it doesn't always happen when it's, the bus is in motion sometimes. Oh no it, it never happens when a bus is, you get a hot seat while the bus is in motion and you can get. .. A Q A Q A Q Okay . ... a hot seat while the bus is, is stopped but never while it's in motion. Cross over never happens when the bus is moving? No. Okay. It's always stationary. Alright. A Q A Q A Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Um were you, up front did you hear the uh, when Dr. White and the uh and the chief of police said they gave their speech ... A Q You mean on the patch? On the pa, the call it the patch? Yeah. Okay. And what did they tell you? They just, I remember the one guy, not Dr. White but the ... The chief? Yeah it was him. Un huh (Affirmative) A Q A Q A Q 19 Baron Marc/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A He just kept saying oh uh I'm gonna throw your ass in jail, oh (inaudible) I don't give a damn, just stuff like that. You hate somebody gonna get thrown in jail. We don't care, like he was just rambling on and on. Make sure that you know don't do it so you don't go to jail. Q A Q Okay. Has anybody talked to you about this ... What? ... so, anybody talk to you about uh talking to the police or told you to provide any more statements to the police or anything else? A (Inaudible). I mean I heard like before this 3 other people got interviewed and then they were just, I was like "What happen", they was like "They just asked me questions and that was it". Q Okay. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A Q A And nobody's made any threats to anybody or. .. Oh nah. ... told anybody don't, don't talk or lie or say this or say this or anything? Nah not to my knowledge. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Q Okay uh and who is the bus president now? Dontae Martin. Okay. Uh of these uh, the, let's see you did your cross over, you don't know who the, the bus president was when you did yours? A Q A (Inaudible) Okay um how long has Dontae Martin been the uh "Bus Two years. e" president? 20 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Two years. Yeah this is my last year. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q How do you become the bus president, is that official or is that something the bus does itself A Q A Q A Q A Q A It's just really the oldest person, that's all. The person that's been around the longest, so it's not like the ... No. ... Dr. White says hey you're the bus president for "Bus C". Oh no. It's, y'all figure it out yourself. Yeah it's just whoever is the oldest... Okay. ... and happens to be riding the bus. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Do you think um, uh Dr. White knew about what was going on um Saturday night, Friday night and Saturday night? A Q No. Um who was the, who's the pe that were the uh, is there a professor or teacher on the bus ... A Q A Q A Yeah it's ... ... Friday night. Yeah it was Dr. James. Dr. James. Yeah. 21 Baron Marc/Case #11-1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q What's he doing when uh the hot seat's going on? Um to be honest I don't even think he knows about it it's just cause he sits all the way in the front so you know you try to make sure he doesn't know about it, you know what I'm saying, just him sit in the front and you do whatever you have to do in the back. A Q Un huh (Affirmative) But he's not really aware of what's going on. And is he the only one that was on, on the bus? It was, I know it's a guy called Ranger Joe ... What's his real name? I think it's like Earl Jones. Okay. But uh you know they sit up front, that's, I don't know if the picture man was there. We call him picture man. I don't know if he was ... A Q A Q A Q A Q Ranger Joe is not the picture man? Nah. Okay. Um if I said, I have Earl Jones and a Tony Le, LeaVelle. Uh that's, yeah Ton, that's the picture man. Okay Tony is the picture man? Yeah. Okay. Where's Tony, uh was he there Friday? Yeah, yeah he, but he sits in the front. Okay how 'bout on Saturday when the, the crossing's going on? Uh we do it after everybody gets off the bus. We don't just do it while you know there's band staff around. We wait till they get off, we wait about, wait probably A Q A Q A Q A Q A 22 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q like, depend how fast they wanna do it, we wait about like 10 minutes to make sure the coast is clear then you know we start it off and all that stuff. Is the uh, uh who, who turns the bus on and has the lights on and all of that stuff? I don't, don't know. When you uh did yours is the bus, did your crossing, is the bus driver present when this is going on? A Q A Q Not when I went through. It was just, it was dark. It was dark? Yeah it was real dark. Is the bus on? Nah. No. Because there were no, I remember when I went through it was no lights, it was just darkness. A Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Are there ever lights on? Um (inaudible), I don't think so. Tell, cause if there are lights then it's from the light outside. A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Un huh (Affirmative) So there ain't no light but... If, if the bus lights were on, if the lights were on in the bus and they were doing that then people outside the bus would be able to see what's going on. A Q A Q See that. So that's why they leave it off. 23 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Yeah. When'd you ... That's why the lights are off. Okay. Is uh, so who's the bus driver for "Bus C"? Um it was a lady called Wendy. Wendy. Yeah. Uh does Wendy know um what's going on? Probably What would make the ... I think so. Huh, what, how would she know that was going on? I mean, I'm trying to think. Had she ever had to intervene or did anybody get sick while she's ... I mean like stuff was like outta place. Like what? Like, like something, like when we were driving buses we have stuff in like the compartments ... Q A Un huh (Affirmative) ... up top you know. Like in the front there's usually stuff there that's like messy and um like you know the driver's seat cause you know sometimes people, you don't, people just sit down there just to be a lookout so you might aCcidentally knock something over or something. But, and then but she knows and she, she knows, I don't... Q I mean has she ever took, instructed anybody on anything or ... 24 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 . 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Nah, no, no. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Does she leave the bus open on purpose so that people can go back there to do this? A Q Probably. Probably. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q How do you, how do you get on the bus? I don't know, I mean she probably, I probably, she probably just, somebody's told her hey we're gonna do this or that, you know you could leave the bus open. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) A Q By saying probably it sounds like ... I mean it's ... ... that you know that for sure but. .. ... I'm, I'm not... ... it just. .. ... cause I don't really talk to ... You don't wanna throw her under the bus . No it's just like I don't really talk to her or it's just like hey what's up, we always say hi to Wendy because you know she's nice to us. A Q A Q A Q A Q Un huh (Affirmative) I remember like when we were in South Carolina she bought like the whole bus banana. A Q (Laughter) 25 Baron Marc/Case #11?1018341YW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A So it's like she, she just a nice lady so we just always say hey to her. So I mean I guess by you trying to say me saying probably I mean if she knows she knows, you know what I'm saying, I don't, I'm not really sure. Q A Q You don't have any direct knowledge. Yeah I don't have any direct knowledge that's what I'm trying to say. Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A But uh the bus is suppose to be locked? I mean they tell everybody get off the bus you know so the bus driver can lock the bus. Q A Q Un huh (Affirmative) Do whatever they need to do. Okay. Did you have an incident in urn South Carolina where, did a bus get burglarized? A Q A Yeah. What happen there? Uh somebody got on to the freshman bus and stole their stuff. That was like the, I don't know, I know most of the people on the bus were freshman percussion. Q A Q Un huh (Affirmative) But I don't know if they were, like what other sections. Was there any uh direction given up after that incident to urn, to people uh for locking the bus? A Urn not to my knowledge. 26 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. Can you think of anything else that um we, you know that might be important that you can think to help us out or anybody else that we need to talk about that, talk to that you know would have uh some knowledge? A Q To be honest if anybody just talk to the people who rode back from the game. Back from the game. Yeah. Okay. Cause like I say after the game I didn't ride with the band cause my mom and sister, me and my girlfriend ... A Q A Q Un huh (Affirmative) ... and her cousin, we all went to TGI Friday's to get something to eat. Okay, have you talked to Dontae Martin since uh this occurred? No I haven't seen him. Alright. And have you uh, uh how 'bout Dr. White, have you talked to Dr. White? Nah. I was suppose to for like you know trying to see if I was able to take the class at Florida State but when I got back, it's like usually Monday when you get back from Classic it's already dead cause a lot of people go home or they go into their classes. A Q A Q A Q Un huh (Affirmative) And usually it's like in the music department you really don't have class, like it's not like (inaudible), it's like teachers, you just don't really have class so. A (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Are a lot of people gone right now? What do you mean? Like out of school, gone right now for the holidays. A Q 27 Baron Marc/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A Q A No not, not yet. Okay. Next week, like after they you know done taking their finals and stuff but right now nah it's just the normaL .. Q People, normal people are here. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Okay. Um I think that's about it (inaudible). Okay um do you swear that the statement that you gave, raise your right hand. You swear the statement that you just given uh to be the truth and nothing but the truth? 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A Q Yes sir. And if necessary, if somebody ask you to, to repeat the exact same thing that's on there would you be willing to testify to that? A Q Yes. Okay. Alright we're gonna go ahead and end the uh interview, it's about uh 2:00. THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY 19 Signed this ?-K day of--"u?)CL.!t:""~-,,,v_L _ _ _ _, 2012. _ 20 21 22 23 24 25 DETECTIVE PHELAN, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 28 Baron Marc/Case #11-101834NW/12/14/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 Baron Marc/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/14/11 ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE TAPED INTERVIEW CASE NUMBER: 2011-101834 1 DETECTIVE DAVE PHELAN DATE: MARCH 23, 2012 Okay, today is Thursday, March 22 nd , 2012. I'm Detective David A. Phelan, Orange County Sheriff's Office, Criminal Investigations Division. I'm currently talking on the phone with uh ..... Q 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 State your first and last name? Anwaar Bonner. Anwaar Bonner? Yes. And I'm here speaking to him in reference to Orange County case number 2011101834 uh the death of Robert Champion. Uh, Anwaar uh, do you, are you familiar with a young man by then name of Aaron Goldson? A Q A Q 10 11 12 13 A Q Yeah. Okay. Uh you recall the night that uh, uh Robert Champion uh was found deceased on the bus? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q He's a, what you say? You, do you recall the night that Robert Champion was found deceased on the bus? A Q Asleep? Deceased, dead. Oh, I mean I, I knew what happened when I was at the Ale House. That's when I found out what happened? I was at the Ale House with the people I play tuba with. A Q Okay. Okay. And I was told when uhm the band arrived that he had (inaudible) he had told our (inaudible) leader and our (inaudible) leader he like there was the news for it. A 1 Bonner, Anwaar/Case #11-101834/map ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE CASE NUMBER: 2011-101834 TAPED INTERVIEW DETECTIVE DAVE PHELAN DATE: MARCH 23, 2012 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. Uh, so uh you found out while you at the Ale House. Who were you at, uh was uh was Aaron Goldson at the Ale House with you? A Q Yes, Aaron Goldson was at the Ale House with me. And was uh Ryan Overstreet at the Ale House with you? Yeah, Ryan Overstreet was. All right. Can you recall anybody else that was there? Uh, let's see, Bobby Wilkerson, uh Geto Voulter, uh let's see Gerald Wright. Uh, that's all I can actually recall. A Q A Q Okay. Uh you recall about what time you all went to the Ale House? Uhm, not really. I just know it was about thirty minutes after we got off like the bus just left us. All the buses like unloaded. I called Aaron about thirty minutes and then me and him headed out from the hotel to meet all the tuba players outside and we walked to the Ale House. A Q Okay. Uhm, and you're in the tuba section, right? Yes sir. Would you spell your first and last name for me? A-n-w-a-a-r. That's my first name. And my last name is Bonner, B-o-n-n-e-r. A Q A Q 0- 0 ..... A Q B-o-n-n-e-r. Bonner. B-o-n ..... Yes sir. Okay. And what's your birth date Mr. Bonner? July 21,1992. And your current address? Uh I mean I, I stay on campus. A Q A Q A 2 Bonner, Anwaar/Case #11-1 01834/map ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE CASE NUMBER: 2011-101834 TAPED INTERViEW 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DETECTIVE DAVE PHELAN DATE: MARCH 23, 2012 Q Right. (inaudible) at Pomeno South. 60614. 606, number 14? Yeah. What's the street? Uh I don't even know the street that's it's on sir. Campus address, okay. And your phone number? 4-0-4. Uh-huh (affirmative) 9-3-1. Uh-huh (affirmative) 0-08-8. Okay. I appreciate you talking with me sir and uh just trying to, to clean up some loose ends. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q All right. All right. Thank you very much. Yes sir. Bye. Hey you still there? (inaudible) A Q THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY. Signed this lJ dayof /t1dV(A ,2012. DE HELAN, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 3 Bonner, Anwaar/Case #11-101834/map STATEMENT fill Please out in full detail 1/- LD{~3CP os I, :2OncrlliCUQ do hereby voluntarily make the following statement without threat, coercion, offer of benefit or favor by any persons whomsoever. e0{ce. -List stolen items separately (with values) in body of statement.Total Value of Property Stolen/Damaged I have reviewed the Victim's Rights package. Sworn To and Subscribed Before Me This $ I" I; will testify in court. I will prosecute criminally. iI f? L I Swear/Affirrn the Above and/or Attached Statements are Correct and True. Personally Known 0 :::---;---;::;--=::7/':';-'---;::-=:-;=; Produced Identification ~.,,"_"/ Signature ~t( YesQ Deputy Sheriff ?/Notary Public 0 Typeof~~~'~~~~~'_______ , Office r2....J, 11 ~ made? 1? 10-1181 (6/09) White- Yellow ~ Records Pink - Investigator 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. A. TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JONATHAN BOYCE CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE VOYLES CASE NUMBER 11-101834 Q - Det Voyles Q2 - Det. Phelan Q3 -Inv. Cotton Q. This is Detective Voyles, we'll be the room with Detective Phelan; Investigator Cotton and we'll be speaking to .... Jonathan Boyce. Jonathan Boyce. Um, Jonathan, what is your phone number? 404-775-6295. And it is September ... I'm sorry, Oct ... November 22 take it by the 404 you live in Atlanta somewhere? Yes. Your address? Yes. Alright. Um and what um, you're a drum major. Right? Yes, the head drum major. You're a head drum major? (no audible response) And were you ... well what instruments did you play before? Uh, I played trumpet. Trumpet? Okay. Um, basically we're gonna ... we're here to talk about what happened with um, Robert. Um, uh, you understand that you're not here ... you're not um, required to be here. If you don't wanna talk to us you don't have to. Um, you can go right out the door there and not talk to us at all. Um, we're nd , Q. A. Q. 2011 at 1043 hours. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. 1 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 just trying to find out what happened and ... and what led to his death. Um, you understand that you're free to go? You're not under arrest; there's nothing like that even though we're wearing badges and all that stuff but .... A Q Right. .... you're free to go. Okay? So you do not have to talk to us. Um, you understand that? A Q. Yes. Are you willing to talk to us about what happened? Yes. Okay. Do you ... in that, since we're gonna be doing that in that case, do you swear or affirm ... raise your right hand for me. Do you swear or affirm that everything you say will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q. A Q. Yes. Okay. Um, in your own words cause he'll be here in a minute but we've already ... we've already heard mostly what happened of everything but we just wanna get your (inaudible) ... go ahead and start (inaudible) how this whole thing went down. A Well um, from what I remember um, on the way back from the game um, Saturday night we were um, all in the limousine that ... that Dr. White had provided for us and um, we were um, we made ... we were making plans to go out um, after the game with ... with the limousine driver. And um, um, I think we got back around ... it was close to 9:00, about 8:45ish, 8:50ish and um, so I went ... we had all got out of the uh, limo and went up to our room to change. Uh however, I didn't go straight to my room. I went to uh, someone uh, else ... else's room. I went to a few female's room. 2 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 Q. Okay. And ... and uh, we were all .. , it was three fem ... it was three girls in there and myself and we were just in there talking. Um, .. .. A 3 4 Q. Had you already changed? No, I didn't change. I was still in uniform. Okay. And we were um, just in there talking. And um, and the time had '" well I was talking with them and like, in the meantime, uh, the limo driver was calling me uh, trying to set up plans, um, seeing what exactly did ... did we wanna do. And so he told me that ... that he was coming to pick us up at ... at 9:30. 5 6 A Q. 7 8 9 A 10 11 12 Q. Okay. And which ... which was shortly, you know. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) So um, so well we got carried away talking and um, uh, with my friends and then I got the call that um, that Robert was supposed to be going to the bus, uh, to bus C. And so I was like oh my gosh, like I forgot, you know. I forgot, lemme ... lemme .... A Q. 13 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 Q. What does that mean (Inaudible - over spoken) .... So lastthing .... .... that he was going to bus C? Well it's this ... it's the thing that um, it's a bus that um, people kinda do. You know? And uh .... A Q. 20 21 A 22 23 Q. Did you do it? Uh, years ago. Years and years ago. Were you a drum major at the time or no? 24 25 A Q. 3 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 A. Q. Uh, yes I was. Okay. And uh, yeah so I got the call um, that ... that, you know, he was doing it so. And last thing I had said uh, before I had left the female's room was ... was oh my gosh, lemme go ... lemme go ... go try and save him. You know? Uh, before ... before something bad happens to him. So cause that's the thing with us drum majors, um, we don't ... we don't hurt each other. You know? We only try to help, you know, we ... we keep other people away because we're a brotherhood, you know, and we don't like other people, you know, um, you know, trying to hurt on us. So ... so um, and then .... 2 3 A. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q. A. Q. Is that whats gonna happen in bus C? He was gonna get hurt on it? Um, probably so. So .... Because he was a drum major or just in general? No, just in general. Okay. Not because uh, he was a drum major. That drum major had ... had nothing to do with .... A. Q. A. 15 16 17 18 Q. A. Okay . .... this. And so he had um, yeah so when I had made the call um, I was like man I forgot, you know, that he was um, you know, he had wanted to um, to go um, and do that. So I was, aw man lemme go and, you know, and try to pull him off and, you know, try to save him. So I had um, so I had went back to my room uh, to change because I didn't want, you know, anything to get messed up on ... on my uniform. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Right. 4 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A. So I had went and put on normal clothes and ... and uh, that's when I had ... I had um, when I had went down to the bus. He um, he had ... well had um, already started. And so when I got there I had .. , I knocked on the door and, of course, uh, they let ... they had uh, let me and him on the bus. Q. When you get to the bus is it moving around and shaking because there was a lot of stuff going on in there. Right? A. No, I mean, it wasn't really moving around but, I mean, it was dark. It was ... because it was night and there were no lights on ... on the bus so I just knocked the door opened and um, and I went on and when I got there he was already to the back of the bus. And the way the uh, the procedure code is that um, you just have to make it from the front of the bus to the back. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Q. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) And touch the back wall and ... and it's over. So by the time I got there he was maybe like a foot or two away from the back of the bus. So it's a aisle full of people so I ... so I knew that ... that I wouldn't just um, like I'd be able to (inaudible) everybody so I climbed over the seats. So ... so I climb over the seats all the way to the back. Um, I see them ... well I see him, you know, reaching so I ... I grabbed him. So I grab him uh, to try to keep everybody off of him and I grab him and I'm pulling him and I'm pulling him. And so I see people ... people are kicking him so I um, so I stopped them from kicking him and I put my body around his body. And I'm just pulling; me uh, me and Shawn. Shawn .... He's stand ... he's standing up or is on his knees? Is he .... He's like um, kinda on a ... on a knee but he was ... he was like this and Shawn and I was pulling his right arm. You know. And so ... and so I was pulling well I had uh, um, my body over his uh, to protect him from getting hit anymore. So .... A. A. 5 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-101834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Were you getting hit? Um, yeah I did get hit a few times. And so, because they were trying to, you ... you know, get uh, to him. So um, but however it was other people pulling him back trying, you know, trying um, to not let him get to the wall. Q. A. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) So but Shawn and I uh, were the only ones ... well were ... were the ones that ... that I saw who were pulling. Shawn was pulling his arms, I was pulling his body uh, to try to uh, keep him away uh .... Q. A. Did you see (inaudible)? I didn't see (inaudible). Um, um, like involved in anything. Did you see (inaudible) trying to help? Um, .... Cause you ... there .. , you guys are drum majors. You're all .... Yeah. .... together so I .... Yes we are, we are. (inaudible) was trying to help him through to. Yeah um, it was probably a time but um, I'm pretty sure he was there trying to help before I got there. But like one ... once I got ... got there and I climbed over the um, of the seats to the back it was um, I just seen me and Shawn that were there trying to uh, pull him through and .,. and .. , and keep everybody off. And so um, but .,. but it was shortly after um, but I seen ... me and Shawn uh, we were pulling but it was still people pull ... pulling him back the other way. So I was like Shawn we gotta pull harder. So I kinda ... I was like one, two, three and we um, Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. 6 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-101834/12-12-11/Cl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and we yanked him uh, real hard and he came loose from everybody else and he hit the wall. And so ... and so then .... 02. A. When you say that he hit the wall, he hit the wall in .... Yeah. .... indicating that he had made it to the back. Right. Okay. Right. And so then it was over. You know, they can't touch him anymore. So uh, so then we sat him up um, uh, on the floor um, of the bus and uh, and um, he asked uh, for some water. So we gave him some Gatorade because that's ... that's the only thing uh, that we had. And so I gave that to him and so um, me and Shawn uh, we just figured he okay because, I mean, just to be ... I ... I did it. 02. A. 02. A. o. A. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) You know um, back in ... it was just (inaudible). I did it. And um, and .... Why'd you do it? What's the purpose of this whole tradition? The purpose? I mean, it's ... it's to ... it's like a respect thing, you know, kinda sorta. It's sad to say, you know, but, you know, um, .... o. A. o. A. Did anybody try to talk him in ... into it or talk him out of it? Well he was wanting to do it all ... all season. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) He wanted to do it all season. Is ... could he have .... And .... .... done it any other time or does it always happen after the Classic? Its not ... no, no, anytime. And the thing is .... o. A. o. A. o. A. 7 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 11 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. So why didn't you do it in the beginning of the season? The thing is that's when ... that's when I come in at, you know, as being his head drum major, I don't allow any of my drum majors to do anything. Well, they don't ... they don't' do anything un ... unless I give them the, you know, the go ahead, you know, and the, you know, yes go, you know, like do what you want. Q. A. So he'd been begging you all season. Yeah. So it's all well not really begging me but .... (inaudible) Yep. Q. A. Q. A. I wanna do it, I wanna do it and you kept saying no. Yeah. So um, you know, this is the last game and ... and so um, I knew he wanted to do it and so um, on the way back to the hotel I received a text from ... from some people on the bus and ... and they were saying is he gonna do it? Um, this is his only chance, you know, it's the last game. His only um, you know, last chance. So ... so I asked him, Robert, he was like (inaudible). I was like Robert they're texting me. I was ... I was like ... I was like do you still wanna do it? So he was like yes. I was like fine, you know, I was like fine. Q. A. Yeah but do you .... Well do it .... .... do you still have that text on your phone? Yes sir. Yeah, I don't have it anymore. I'm sorry. Do you have anything? Any text (inaudible) uh, about this after that? No, I don't. Who are the people .... I don't. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. 8 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-101834/12-12-11/CL 1 Q. A. .... that text you? Um, it was Dante. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q. A. Oh. Well ... well it was from Dante's phone. Dante Martin? Yeah. And so uh, so that's when .... He's ... what is Dante? Who is ... who is Dante? I mean is a ... is he a percussion guy? Q. A. Q. A. Yeah. (inaudible) Is he like a head per ... like one of the major guys of percussion? No. Just a .... Just a regular .... Yeah. I mean you guys ... the drum majors are the ... are the .... Right. .... are it. Right. So okay. Yeah but like I was saying like that's ... that's just the part where I just feel like ... like I should've been a stronger person and kept telling him no. You know, no, you're not ... not ... I'm not gonna let you do it. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Are you ... you .. ' you're a ... you're just in charge of the drum majors. Aren't you guys in charge of everybody? I mean, aren't you guys the one that put people on their faces and do cal ... calisthenics and all that stuff in ... in practice and all that stuff? 9 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Right but with ... with the best of discretion. Okay. It's ". it's like .". But I mean, still you're"" Right. "" you're like the .... Right. Kinda like uh, .... Right, we're the" .. " .. for lack of a better term you're like the ... the ... the "" The (inaudible). "" the kid ." the hallway monitor. Right. Teachers are in charge but you get to tell the other kids what to do. Yeah. Okay. What's ". do you have Dante's phone number? It's 813-569-8809. Okay uh, well did you make it to the bus ." you say you made it and you were helping them ". trying to help him get to the back. Right? O. A. O. A. O. A. O. A. O. A. O. A. O. A. O. A. 02. A. 02. Yes. After he made it to the back did you ever see him leave the back of the bus? No, I didn't see him leave "" You left ". "" the back of the bus. "" you left after that. A. 02. A. 02. 10 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-101834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes, me and ... me and Shawn had left shortly after that because um, after that uh, after it ... it's over. The bus just cleared it. Q2. A. Right. You know, it's still dark and the ... and, you know, everybody cleared it. Was he the last one to go through? Um, yes because everybody .... They didn't clear .... .... left after that. .... they didn't clear it because of him, they just cleared it because it was over. Right. Right. Those are the three people that are supposed to go; they went; it's over. Right. I'm guessing it was to ... I'm not ... I don't know. You .. . But ... but like and when I got there it was Robert. And so um, yeah so once Robert uh, was done, you know, I stayed there with him for a few minutes and so he was ... he was fine. He was like yeah, yeah I'm okay. Um, I just um, I'm just tired, you know and I ... I want something to drink. So ... so that's when I um, given him some uh, Gatorade. So after that uh, Shawn and I had walked ... well uh, we were leaving and so I was like Robert let's go. I was like, and you can, um, yeah, you can rest in the room, you know. Q2. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) You know, just ... just don't worry about it. So as ... as me and Shawn uh, were leaving uh, we maybe got to uh, the front of the uh, of the hotel doors and um, so I turned around but he wasn't there. So um, I told Shawn go ahead I'm gonna go back and get him. So I went back to the bus and so he was in the back with a ... 11 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11?101834/12?12?11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. a couple people. It was like two or three people. And ... and so he was panicking uh .... O. A. Who was? Robert. Uh, he was panicking and uh, he was saying um, he was having trouble breathing uh, what not. And um, yeah he was having uh, trouble breathing and like he couldn't see but his eyes were like wide open. His eyes were ... were wide open so he was saying he couldn't see. And uh, and so .... 02. A. But this was at the back of the bus. Yes. How did he get to the front? Well I car ... carried him to the front. Um, yeah so then short ... shortly after um, I came back to see he was panicking and um, um, he had passed out. 02. A. O. A. Mmhmmm. (affirmative) And so we had checked for a pulse and, you know, he ... he still had a pulse and a heart beat and everything. And so um, we had carried him to the front of the bus. And when we went ... when I carried him to the front of the bus .... 02. A. Can you hold on one second? ... I go. Okay. Okay when you initially got on the bus he was at the back. Is that the point that you checked him for a pulse? He had passed out .... Yes. .... and he was still at the back. Yes. Is that the point that you checked him for a pulse and a heartbeat? Yes. 02. 02. A. 02. A. 12 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 02. A. Okay that's prior to moving him to the front. Yes. Okay. So then you move him to the front and what happens? I move him to the front and then I leave. I go to ... to get Shawn um, from the room uh, to see what uh, we should do. So I go back ... back to the room and um, I get Shawn and ... and ... and that's when I received some phone calls and, you know, he's not ... he's not breathing, you know, and all this type of stuff. And so I'm coming back um, to the bus and um, and once ... once me and Shawn got there that's when Dr. White and the paramedics showed up. And so me and ... me and Shawn had ... had picked him up and uh, took his body off the bus and uh, onto the pavement and they started performing CPR on him. 02. A. 02. Okay uh, have you ev ... other than your ... have you ever helped anyone else through this process? Other than Robert and the ... why didn't ya'II help um, what his name was? O. Keon. Keon. Because, like I say, I got there late. Okay. But .... No, I ... I had um, I forgot they were supposed to be doing it because I was up there with the females and ... and then um, I was talking with the bus driver. I mean, uh, with the limo driver trying to get our plans ready for the night. And um I got the call that ... that Roberts supposed to be doing the bus so I ... I was like oh yeah, I forgot. So um, yeah I was ... 02. A. 02. A. 02. A. How do ya'II get the bus ... how do they get the bus? How they .... 13 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q2. A. How do they ... how do they get on the bus? The bus is supposed to be locked. All the buses were open for some reason, I'm not sure. But this is happening at every game now. This ... opportunity to go on the bus, so are they leaving the buses open every game? Are the buses .... Q2. A. I'm not sure how it works cause I'm not, you know, I'm rarely on there. I'm rarely on them. Q. So did you ... how do you hear that it happens? I mean people talk about it, you know. A. Yeah. This person went through; this person went through. Yeah. The part of the whatever. Yeah but like I don't know how, you know .... But it happens every .... Yeah ... yeah. .... (inaudible) How they set it up because I'm not the one to set up some. I don't know how, you know, everything get set up at all. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Well you've been uh, you're the ... you're the ... you're the dad version of them so that I can tell you everything that's going on is what you're saying. A. Right. But you know that it's happened because you (inaudible) what that person went through or whatever. Q. A. Right. 14 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11?1 01834/12?12?11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q, Right Why would ""' why,"" why"", what's the purpose for him to go through ," did ", you said it was respect A Q, Yeah, I mean, that ," that would be the """ Are you graduating this year? Yes I'm graduating December 16 th , A Q, Is uh, Robert taking '" was Robert supposed to take your place? Uh, """" As the head? It wasn't confirmed um, "" But you have to give your blessing don't you almost? No, I mean (inaudible) ,," No, no, It has""" You're not """ ,'" it has nothing to do with me, A Q, A Q, A Q, A Q, A Q, But I mean they don't tell you that """ Shawn actually"" (Inaudible) ," think should be the ""' who should '" they don't ask you who you think they", who they think should replace you? A Q, A Q, Dr. White does, And you recommended Robert, No, No, Because I can't remember ," I don't think there has ever been a head drum major or well a person to become head drum major after his first year marching, A Q, A 15 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-101834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. Oh, okay. You know as a drum major. That's probably impossible unless Dr. White just has full faith in this person. Q. A. Okay. To um, to do that job. Now the way we work is in a (inaudible) system. That's the way you're deemed ... well, yeah, like mainly. Uh, unless uh, Dr. White feels that ... that ... that someone else needs to, you know, step up and skip this person indifference, the way that we work as (inaudible) drum ... drum majors that the next person in line (inaudible) wise, you know. Q2. A. Q2. A. Q2. A. Who was next in? Shawn. Alright. Because Shawn was ... was gonna be here next year. Alright. And uh, yeah so I would figure Shawn was gonna be ... be head um, uh, drum major so I didn't know that ... that ... that Dr. White had plans to make Robert the head drum major until we were in the hospital. And so he was talking on the phone to somebody and so Dr. White uh, was like yeah, I made plans to make him the head uh, the head for next year. I was like oh, I didn't know that. Uh, so. Q. A. Q. Anybody have a problem with Robert that you know of? No, Robert .... Anybody ... anybody's paid special attention to him in the bus? Hitting him for purposes um, uh, besides this? 16 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/CL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No, it's ... no it's ... it wouldn't be any type of vendetta towards Robert but it would be like a vendetta towards a drum major because, you know, like it's kinda like being the police. Q. A. (laughs) We're the police of the band. I mean, yeah, we're the police of the band so. If you get a shot to hit the police you gotta take it. Exactly. Exactly. Urn, any ... any weapons ever used? Sticks, slaps, straps? Urn, I know there was strap being used. Urn, .... Any sticks? Urn, I know they do use sticks. Okay. But I don't know if I .... You don't know if .... . ... if I've seen them use, you know, at that time. But urn, .... You see a ... you see a traffic cone being used. Urn, I saw one in the back. I saw a traffic cone in the back. I did, but I didn't see it being used because like I said I got there .... Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. You got there too late. Right. Every ... when everybody left they left because it was over not because .... Right. .... something was happening with him and .... Right. . ... they were running. Q. A. Q. A. Q. 17 BOYCE, JONATHAN/11-1 01834/12-12-11/Cl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Un huh (Affirmative) Okay. Now you guys get now with ba, at the uh The Classic ballgame on the way back to the hotel was there any incidents of a hot seat or a cross over? A Q Yeah Lissette got one going, coming from the game. Okay. So from the game back to the room Lissette, what'd she do a cross over or a hot seat? A She crossed that night too but I wasn't there, I got off soon as we got to the hotel cause I was with my mom and my dad. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Okay, I thought, let me stop you, from the game back to the hotel. Okay. Did anybody get a hot seat? Lissette. She got the hot seat? She got a hot seat, yeah. And then but you weren't there for a cross over which occurred ... Yeah. Yeah I wasn't there for that. Okay. Did you, after she got her hot seat did you see her? It was, but the lights are off on the bus, we were watching a movie. Okay were you in the front when she got it or the back? I was in the front. How'd you know she got it? Cause I saw her go to the back. Did somebody come and get her? Uh, uh I can't tell you, I don't know. But you know she got on the ... 11 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q But most likely somebody came and got her yeah. (Inaudible) ... Cause I, I mean I, I was in front of her. Like ... Okay. But you know she's moving and you turned around and she's already heading to the back. A Q A Q Yeah. Nobody around her. Uh uh (Negative) Did she come back? Yeah she came back. Was she hurt? Urn it hurt so I'm pretty sure she was, yeah. Okay. Did you have any conversation at all with her? I just asked her was she alright and she was like yeah. I mean is it one of those things, I mean you know you're gonna go through it eventually ... A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Yeah it's sooner or later. .. ,and once you go through it, it, they beat the snoot out of you, you know it but you're good now. A Q Yeah. You've done it, you don't have to do it again and you're, and you're free and clear. A Q Free and clear. Did she make any comment that she was gonna cross over that night? 12 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-1018341YW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I mean she was like the only one left so I, I mean I, you, basically you, you can tell when you gonna do it cause she was the last person. Q Okay. And that was because a" the cross overs finished ... Yeah. ... after this game. This is the season finale. Basica"y yeah. Okay. What, and does, I know there's multitude you had, how many uh hot seats did you have before you did your cross over? A Q A Q A Q Like throughout the season? Yeah. Three. And is that standard for everybody mostly? That's like average, yeah. Okay. So they a" get three on a average and do the amount of hittings is determined on who's on the bus. A Q A Q A Q Basica"y yeah. Okay. Lissette gets her hot seat, you guys get back to the hotel, where do the buses park? A Q Um in the parking lot. In the back of the hotel? Yeah I think so yeah. Did you get outta the bus? Yeah I got right off. Okay did you know that they were gonna do any crossing over that night or anybody say anything? A Q A Q 13 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A I, I mean I knew it but I did, cause that's when it happens but ... Okay. ... 1 left. Okay. And where did you go? To my mom and dad's hotel and we were eating with some family friends. Okay. They come up to watch the game? Yeah, every year. That's cool. When you got back to the hotel or did you stay with them that night? Nah I came back later. What, do you remember what time you got back? . Eleven-ish I'll say. Okay. When did you find out that Robert Champion had passed? I was on the phone with Harold and he told me he had, uh he flat lined but they resuscitated him or something like that. So I thought ... Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Were you with your parents when that happen? No I was on the way back. Okay. So I was like ... But you were with them, they were bringing you back to the room or. .. Yeah. Okay. Did it surprise you? Yeah. Did he say how he flat lined or oh crap they, you know he didn't make it through the line or? A He just told me he, cause he was, he was, I mean he wasn't there neither. 14 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Right. This is what people were saying? Yeah that's what they were saying. Did anybody ever tell you what happen on the bus? What happen to Robert? Yeah. Um no. Is it people that have their general understanding of what may have happened and ... A Q A Q A Q A Q Yeah cause ... ... everybody just keeping their mouth ... ... everybody ... ... shut cause what's going on. I mean everybody knows what happen but I wasn't there so I couldn't tell you exactly what happen. A Q A Q Right. You can't give me particulars but there was a crossing over that night. Yeah. And Champion passed and we just don't know why. Do you know if, who else went on the, on the cross over that night? Did you know who was gonna go on it, of, of course Lissette ... A Q A Q I just know Lissette. (Inaudible) ... Well two drum majors, two drum majors went through. Do you know who it was? Uh I think Keon and Rob, yeah. Keon and Rob, Hollis? A Q A Q 15 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-1018341YW/12/13/11 1 A Q A Q Yeah. And uh Rob, who's Rob? Champion. Champion, okay. So you had Lissette, Keon Hollis, Champion and that's the three that night? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A Q Un huh (Affirmative) Okay. So you, you knew it was, people knew what was gonna happen, some either participate or some don't, is that the way it goes? 9 10 11 12 A Q A Q A Q A Q Yeah. If you wanna be there you're there, if you're not you're not. Yeah I just.. Nobody forces you. ... 1just left. So you went on with your family and you heard about it later? (No audible response) Okay. When I got back to the hotel. I know you've been there for 2 years, have you been any, have you participated in any events, not. exclude this event that happened on the 18 and 19 right now. Have you ever been involved in one of these incidents as a participant but you were the, I call it a victim for lack of a better word? You've been through the hot seat where you were receiving the hitting and through the cross over yourself. th th 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A Q 20 21 22 23 24 A Yeah. But you've not participated in any? 25 Q 16 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Q Nah. Okay. You know this, it's, it's, it's a sad situation this event, uh but it's an important to investigation of course. There's a lot of circumstance, surrounding circumstances uh be it whatever your feelings are toward hazing or, or you know tradition. Uh is there anything that you would like to add to this interview that I've not asked you about that you think would be pertinent or you'd like to have on the record ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Uh ... .. .for some clarification. Just that Rob was a nice person; he didn't do nothing to nobody. Um he worked in the cafeteria for like, well when I was a freshman he worked, well he still does, well did but when I was a freshman I, I live right across the street so I was in there a lot and I saw him, he just a nice person, probably one of the coolest people in the band. A Q It's unfortunate. Um like I said the only thing to get you into any trouble is if, if I don't, if it's not the truth so is everything that you told me about been the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? A Q Yes sir. And if any point and time that I need you to testify about any of the information you provided would you be willing to do that? A Q Yes sir. Okay. This will conclude the interview; it's now approximately 1819 hours, it's still Decemberih, 2011. 17 Evan Calhoun/Case #11?1 018341YW/12/13/11 1 2 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY Signed this x::- day of ~ ~ L ,2012. 3 : 6 7 DE~EPUTYSHERIFF /J~ 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 18 Evan Calhoun/Case #11-1 018341YW112113111 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF CEARNEL DARRYL CONDUCTED BY DAVE PHELAN CASE 11-101834 Day today is Saturday, November the 19th 2011. The time is now 11 :59 hours, 23:59 hours. I'm Detective David A. Phelan, Orange County Sheriffs Office, Criminal Investigation Division. Currently out at the Rosen Plaza, 87, 9700 International Drive. In reference to Orange County case number 101834, the death investigation. I'm seated in my unmarked patrol vehicle speaking with ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Detective Phelan Cearnel Darryl Unknown A. U. Q. A. State your first and last name please? Darryl Cearnel. Darryl are, are um, are you a band member ... Yes Sir. ... for FMU? Yes Sir. Okay ah, are you familiar with ah, Robert Champion? Through band. Okay through band? Yes Sir. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. 1 Cearnel, Darryl/11-101834/12-02-11/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. U. Okay ah, the incident we're involved ... we're investigating is his death. Ah, can you tell me ah, did you have contact with him tonight? Um, in passing. We're getting consent from anybody to process the bus? Ah, bus, bus, bus, bus, bus (inaudible) consent from? (Inaudible ... ). Yeah, no but she can shoot photographs, she can photograph everything and ah, do everything she can do from outside. Q. U. Q. U. Yeah she is doing that. Okay. I'll be with you in one minute. Okay (inaudible) ah, just so you um, you all went to the game, came back and you ... , I understand you got dropped off at... right there at the front of the ah ... Q. A. And (inaudible) bus I, I ride (over talking). You rode the bus? Yes Sir. Okay and when you ah, rode the bus back from the game was ah, Robert on the bus? Q. A. Q. A. No Sir. Okay. And ah, I understand you got off the bus. Is that correct? (No verbal response ... ). And what happened? I got off the bus to use the rest room downstairs. When I used the rest room I came back with my friend, he waited on me in the library, in the lobby. Came back to the bus and Robert was sitting at the front of the bus with about two to three other people. Q. A. Q. A. 2 Cearnel,DarryI/11-101834/12'{)2-11/0S 1 Q. Is he on the bus or sitting (inaudible over talking) steps? He was, he was on the bus sitting, he is sitting on the bus at the steps. And they like he can't breathe and I'm like what you mean he can't breath. They like he can't breath, he said he can't breath. So I, I checked him, he wasn't saying anything, he wasn't, he wasn't responsive or anything. They was calling his name and wasn't saying anything. And I checked his, his, his pulse (inaudible). 2 3 4 A. 5 6 7 8 9 Q. Um hum (affirmative). I took first ah, first aid classes. I didn't feel anything and then I, I lay him ... I told them lay him down on the ground. I gave them to ... ah, (inaudible ... ) somebody else to come. And they ... whoever it is, they stay on my phone. They call (over talking) ... A. 10 11 12 13 14 Q. 911. A. ... call 911 and I told um, my friend Henry that came with me from the lobby I told him to go check inside to see if they had, they had an AED. 15 16 17 18 19 Q. Um hum (affirmative). And I don't even, I don't even remember like if he even came back. started doing CPR again, mouth to mouth, started doing chest compresses. Um, about a minute later there was an officer here and the office came in and the officer immediately start doing chest compresses on him. And then about a minute or two after there was an ambulance that came and they removed him from the bus. And when they ... , they put him outside, I (inaudible). A. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Okay. And did you ... ho ... how well did you know Robert before this? 3 Cearnel, DarryIl11-101834/12-02-11/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I know, I know Robert, through ah, through the band. Okay. Like, I mean we all like family in a sense. Okay. But he is not in my section so. Okay. You know of any ah, problems he may have had ... No Sir. ... (Inaudible ... )? No, no, not at all. Ah did um, he ... was he, any vomitus there or did he vomit while you were (inaudible over talking)? Q A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yeah he, oh, he was vomiting, he started vomiting when I was giving che ... um, chess compressions. Q. A. Okay. Then the, the operator on the phone told me ... I told her she was he was vomiting ... Q. A. Um hum (affirmative). . .. and she said if he was vomiting to turn him on the side and to wipe his mouth. I, I took off the shirt that I had on, I wiped his mouth out. Q. A. Um hum (affirmative). And then I, I, I waited there and that's when the officer came on the bus. Q. A. Okay. Okay and you name is ... Darryl, Cearnel. And that's C-E-A-R-N-E-L? Q. 4 Cearnel, Oarryll11-1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yes Sir. And your date of birth, 03/08/87? Yes Sir. And your home address is 16051 (over talking) ... Five ... ... North West 18 Court. Yes Sir. Miami? Yes Sir, that's where my permanent address is. Okay. But I go to school at FMU University. Okay. And your home phone is 305-626-9025? Yes Sir. And your cell phone is 786-280-1446? Yes Sir. And that's the same cellular telephone that you last call 911? Yes Sir. Okay. And there's talked of a limo that. .. a limo that some of the people, some of the band members maybe ride in or something. You know anything about that? th Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. I mean there was a limo here when we left this morning, but I don't know (inaudible). Q. A. Oh. I thought it that, but I guess (inaudible) I don't, I don't know. Okay. Q. 5 Cearnel, Oarry1/11-1 01834/12-02-11/0S 1A. 2 3 We just ah ... when we went to the game ... , I think that the drum majors rode in it, to the game and I don't know who rode in it coming back. 4 Q. Okay. But it was like the (inaudible) car for (inaudible over talking). So leading, leading the procession? Yeah, basically. Okay. Alright the time is now 12:06 hours, that will conclude this interview. Ah, do you swear that everything you just said is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? 5 A. 6 Q. 7 8 9 10 A. Q. 11 12 A. Q. Yes Sir. Okay. 13 14 15 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this 16 17 g.u, day of -?!/Arc.-t4 ,2012. 18 19 20 21 DETE~V~ DEPUTY SHERIFF .//0~ 22 23 24 25 6 Cearnel, DarryIf11-101834/12-02-11/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 Cearnel, Darryl/11-101834/12-02-11/0S 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF KERIAN COX DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-104834 2 3 4 5 6 7 I'm Detective David A. Phelan, Orange County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division. Also present is my partner, Detective Angelo Chiota and present for the Department of, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is: 8 9 (SA Duncan) Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Special Agent Jeff Duncan. (Detective Phelan) Q A Q And we are her at the FAMU police department speaking with: Kenny Cox. In reference to the death of Robert Champion. And today's date is December 6, 2011. The time is now 12:48 hours. Uh, again, uh, like I said, we're here trying to uh, understand the events that occurred during the trip from uh, to Orlando for the FAMU Bethune-Cookman classic game. You understand that you're being recorded, is that correct? A Q 17 18 19 20 Yes sir. See the recorder here in front of you. Yes sir. Uh, do you mind giving us a statement as far as to what you know about what occurred during that time? 21 A 22 23 24 Q A I mean, from my perspective, I really don't know nothing that happened, as far as like Robert Champion's death, because I wasn't present on the bus. 25 1 Keria" Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11I1c 1 Q Okay, I would",(overtalking) 2 3 4 (Detective Chiota) Q It is safe that question was you don't, you know your not under arrest. You're free to go, You don't have to give us a statement. We're asking you, you're, you're coming here, You're voluntarily giving us a statement. Is that correct? A Q Yes sir. Okay, 5 6 7 8 (Detective Phelan) Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Okay, uh, let's see, you, did you ride Bus C to Orlando? Yes, I did, Okay, Did you ride Bus C to Battle of the Bands? The Friday night sir? Yes sir. Yes sir. And after the Battle of the Bands did you ride Bus C back to the hotel? Yes sir, I did, During the time that you were on the bus from the return trip from the hotel, from the Battle of the Bands, to the hotel, was there any commotions towards the rear of the bus? That you were aware of? A Q At the time at the hotel? No, from that, that traveling on the bus from the Battle of the Bands to back to the hotel? A Q Okay, from the Battle of the Bands? Yeah, Was there any commotion on the back of the bus that you may, you were brought aware or seen or heard? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Uh, no sir, because I was asleep at the time. You slept? Yes sir. On the travel back. Okay, did you wake up uh, once you got to the hotel, you went to your room? take it? A Q A Q Yes sir. Okay, did you ever return back to the bus that night? Yes sir. That night, Friday night, after you got to the hotel. Did you come back to the bus? A Q A Q Yes sir. And what was your, what did you come back to the bus for? Uh, I forgotten Boomers speculation, they was, I guess, doing some kind of crossing or something. A Q Um hum. And I wasn't sure, so I guess I just went back to the bus and see what was going on. A Q When you got back to the bus, what did you find? I find that there was a lot of uh, I guess, I guess there, there was a crossing going on actually. A Q Okay. Had it already occurred or was it going on when you got back. It was going on as I returned to the bus. And when you returned to the bus, were you allowed to get on the bus or were, did you remain off, off the bus. A Q A I just remained off the bus. I didn't want to be a part of it. 3 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11/1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q Okay, did you stay out there in the parking lot until it was over or did you leave before it was over? A Q A No, I just left when it was, actually they was doing the bus crossing. Okay. And when you were there at the bus, did you see anyone that you knew? Uh, no, 'cause it was night time so I couldn't speculate anybody's, or any like faces to bodies. Q A Q A Q A Q Have you uh, crossed over? Oh, yes sir. And what year did you cross over? Uh, my sophomore year, since I was 2008. 2008? In the fall. In the process, when you crossed over included uh, hot seat and then doing the cross over which is from the back to, from the front to the back of the bus. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Yes sir, that's correct. Okay, uh, you didn't see anything Saturday, Friday night, so we gonna move to Saturday. A Q A Q A Q A Q Yes sir. Oh you rode with the Bus C to the game? Yes sir, I did. Did you perform? Uh, Saturday night? No, did you perform on the field? Oh, yes sir I did. After the game, did you'all then ride Bus C back to the hotel? 4 Kerian Coxl11-104834112-14-111Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A Q Yes sir, we did. On your side back to the hotel, did you, were you told or did you hear that there was gonna be a crossing that night? A No, because (inaudible) ... 1just slept on the bus. Alii do, I just put in my Ipod, listen to my music, as far as travel wise, listen to music and I just fall asleep 'cause I, I was tired after the game. Q Okay, and once you got back to the hotel, did you then uh, stay on the bus or did you go, leave and go to your room. A Q I left from my roommate Adrian Green. Adrian Green? Yes sir. You'all both left? Yes sir. Okay, and did you return to the bus at any point after that? No, sir, 'cause my mom called and she said she wanted to go out to dinner with the family so I just stayed in my hotel and got ready for us to go out. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A Q A Q A Q You have anything, sir? (Detective Chiota) Q Um, on, on Saturday you said, uh, I mean, uh, Friday you said that uh, you came, you came back. A Q 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Yes sir. You went up and came back. Yes sir. No, you're coming back for a reason, right, to see what's going on. Yes sir. A Q A 5 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 Q But you, you're saying that you didn't get on the bus. I, I don't understand that. Why wouldn't you ... (overtalking). A I didn't want to participate in any forms of, I guess, hazing or whatnot. 'Cause I don't like being hazed. I don't like to haze. I don't like, I guess, hazing in general. I don't like the whole aspect of beating somebody. 4 5 6 Q Okay, but you're coming back down for that purpose. No, I wasn't. You just said you did. Yeah, I came back to see what was going on. Okay. But I didn't want to engage in any parts of hazing at all. Okay. Are you afraid that you answer that you actually went on the bus that you're gonna be in trouble? 7 8 9 10 A Q A Q A Q 11 12 13 14 15 A Q No, sir. 'Cause urn, that's not what we're here for. We're here to get the facts and we'll figure out whatever else is on ... 16 17 18 19 20 A I understand. Okay, so I need you to be totally honest. Yes sir, I understand. Okay, so who was getting urn, hot seat on Friday night when you returned? Friday night, weill said I was sleep on Friday night when we returned. So I don't know what was going on. Q A Q A 21 22 23 24 Q A Okay, that would have been from the bus. To the Battle of the Bands Friday night. It's going back to the hotel. I was sleep. 25 6 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q Okay, coming back down there, who was supposed to be either getting hot seat or crossing? What were you responding to, you know, as far as what you thought was going to go on in the parking lot coming back down from your room? A Q Uh, as far as getting crossing? Was there supposed to be a crossing or was gonna be a hot seat. Yeah, it supposed to be a crossing. Who was supposed to be getting the crossing? From my recollection, I really don't remember. Who, who were you coming down to see? I was coming down to see the events. Or to see if they was actually doing a crossing or not. A Q 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q Okay, but you knew somebody was going to be doing that. Yes sir. Who told you that this was gOing to occur? Actually, uh, um, uh, Dante Martin. Okay, what's Dante Martin's role in this? Oh, I guess, he has, I guess there's like a hierarchy or something. Um hum. And he's a um, the president. Okay, was he the president when you did yours? No, sir. No. Who was the president when they, you did your cross over? I have no idea. You have no idea? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q 7 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A 'Cause I was just, you know what I'm saying, a sophomore. So I didn't know really what was going on actually. Q Okay, so um, was Dante Martin there when you came back down Friday night? I guess he had to be. He had to be on the bus. I ... No, only what you saw. What you, when you got down to the bus, what did you see? Who's there? A Q A Q I just saw the bus rocking. I couldn't. You saw the bus rocking? Yeah, so I couldn't put bodies to faces. Like I said. Could you get on the bus if you wanted to? I assume so if I wanted to. I mean, was there anybody standing there preventing you from getting on the bus? Is that how it works? Like is the bus, is the bus running at this time? Is it on? A Q A Q A Q Was it on? Yeah. I mean, I guess the bus had to be on to open the doors or whatnot so I, I want to say. A Q Were the lights on in the bus? Could you see inside the bus? No. Where's the bus driver at this time Friday night? I have no idea. You didn't see. No sir. A Q A Q A 8 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 Q Okay, Saturday. Um, you said you went back up to your room and then retumed with Adrian. 3 4 A Q I just got ready for a dinner with my family. What time did you leave to go to dinner with your family? Time? Uh, I say we returned back to the hotel room like, I want to say, roughly like between 8 to 8:30 I think and then my family took a long time because there was like a lot of traffic, so they told me to like leave the hotel and try to walk and meet them somewhere. So that, I wanna say that was around like 9, 9:30, I probably, I met them like a Pizza Hut or something like that. I didn't know where I was going. So I met them somewhere and I want to say it was around 9, 9:30 and that's when A.J. called me from his room. 5 6 7 A 8 9 10 11 12 Q A What did Adrian say? He said he got a call and that Robert didn't uh, make it as far as, I guess, he passed away. 13 14 15 Q Didn't make what? He didn't, he didn't make it in life anymore. He was gone from the earth. His life was gone from the earth. 16 17 A 18 19 Q A And you're sure you're not on the bus Saturday night? I really wasn't on the bus Saturday night? 20 21 22 (S.A. Duncan) Q A Who can place you at the Pizza Hut? Who were you with at the Pizza Hut? All by myself and then, 'cause it was on I Drive across from like Waterworks or something, I think. I don't know, 'cause I was real aggravated 'cause my family was trying to meet me somewhere instead of pick me up from the hotel so I was going back and forth. So I was there by myself, just calling my family, well my 23 24 25 9 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11I1c 1 mom really. And my mom's and my cousin and though they just finally I guess just pick me up and I was like I'm stay here and wait so they gots to come pick me up. Q 2 3 4 Did they come? Yes sir. They came and then we went to get gas and then at the gas station, that's when Adrian called me. And I was like mom just take me back there 'cause I trying to figure out what was going on. 5 6 7 A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q What phone number did he call you on? What's your phone number? My phone number is 850-345-9008. That's what they called you on? Yeah, that's my cell phone number. That's what they called you on that? Yes sir. A Q A Q A (Detective Chiota) Q What's your, what's your mom's number? Uh, 850-339-3672. A (S.A. Duncan) Q 18 19 So you saying you guys had communication while you were waiting in the Pizza Hut, several time. (Inaudible)(Overtalking) 20 21 A Yeah, I left, I left the hotel and I was walking on I Drive trying to meet up with them 'cause they were trying to I guess, beat traffic, or whatever, so I was like, I passed Pizza Hut. Passed (inaudible) ... and I turned around and I was like mom, just pick me up at Pizza Hut. Let's meet at a central location. Just pick me up at Pizza Hut and I'll just wait here whenever you come get me. And that's when they came and got me. 22 23 24 25 10 Kerian COxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 Q Did you go in and eat. No, I was waiting for them 'cause we were supposed to go out and eat together as a family (inaudible). A Q Did you ever go into Pizza Hut? No, I just stayed outside. Adrian Green is your roommate. Yes sir. Did he go with you? No. I don't know what he was trying to do that night. He was just, he just stayed in his room. 5 6 A Q 7 A Q 8 9 A 10 11 Q Did he tell you why, why he was staying? Did you offer him to go with you? No, just me and my family. I just wanted to spend time with my family. Did he ask to go with you? No. No sir. 12 13 14 15 16 17 A Q A (Detective Chiota) Q Why didn't they just come pick you up at the hotel? That's, that's how easy would that have been? 18 19 A It would have been real easy but I don't know. I guess as far as convenience, they didn't want to I guess, stick around the traffic or something, I don't know. really don't know. 20 21 22 23 24 25 (S.A. Duncan) Q So you were with your family at the gas station and Adrian calls you? Um hum. Did he say there was a hazing? Did he say that there was hazing? A Q A 11 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-1111c 1 Q A Did he say there was a cross over? He said, he told me that um, Robert was trying to cross the bus and he didn't make it. That's what he said. And I was like what do you mean he didn't make it? Like what, tell me like more specifics. And he was like Robert has passed. was like you know that can't be true. And then I was so shocked I started shaking or whatever and I tell my mom. I was like mom, just take me back to the hotel so I can figure out what's going on 'cause I don't know. She was like what, what happened. I was like I'll tell you later, but I need to go back to the hotel like right now. And then that's when she turned around, after she got gas she turned around and dropped me off at the hotel. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q A He tells you that he passed while he was crossing over. Yes sir. Did he give you any more particulars than that? No sir. When you got back to the hotel room, what did he tell you happened? Actually, we didn't even speak when we got to the hotel room. 'Cause I was trying to confirm if it happened or not and then the rumors spread so fast that I, we didn't like. He opened the door for me and so I just went in my bed. I just, I guess, started crying and praying 'cause I couldn't believe what was going on. 12 13 Q A Q 14 15 16 17 A 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Q I know you're pretty big advocate against hazing. Yes sir. I know what you're saying. Did anybody tell you to provide a false statement or say that you didn't hear something or see something? A Q A No sir. I'm saying the honest truth from my perspective. 25 12 Kerian COxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q So you go back to the hotel. Tell you mom take me back to the hotel 'cause you need to find out what's going on about Robert's passed. A Q Yes sir. And you go back there, but you don't find out what's going on. You got right to your room and go to sleep. A Q I don't go to sleep. I was just crying and praying. But if the purpose was to go back and find out what's going on, why do you do that? A I don't know. I, I really don't know. I guess I was just shakened up. I didn't know what to believe. I didn't want to believe it, but like I guess word spread so fast, like it had to be the truth. Q If you didn't hear or talk to anybody when you got back to the room, what's the word that you heard that... (overtalking). A Q No, I heard from Adrian that Robert passed. What did he say? Other than him telling you on the phone when you got to the room, what conversation once you got to the room did you have with Adrian? A Q Adrian didn't speak. Adrian stay in the room. Adrian left the room. So the only thing you had to go on was that he had passed during the cross over. A Q A Yes sir. When you get to the room where your roommate's at, you don't discuss it at all? He wasn't there. I thought, I thought, we went in the room. I went straight to my bed and just started praying to Christ. But I was so disturbed what was going on. And then I was like, and then as I walking towards me room, everybody I guess, band wise, was just like everybody just go to your room. We don't know what's 13 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 going on. We don't know if the rumor's true or not so everybody just go to your room. Just relax and go to your room. And then I just went to my room. Adrian let me in. And Adrian was like Kerran are you alright? And I wasn't responding 'cause I didn't want to believe what was going on. And then Adrian left. He just. I just give him my space and he left. (Detective Chiota) Q 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And he left? Yes sir, he left the room. He went somewhere else. What time is this? I want to say I met up with my family around like 9:30, so maybe like 10, 10:12, 10 o'clock, somewhere like that. So it was late in the, at night. A Q A Q The problem that I have with it is that, um, the video that I was looking at earlier. That sure looks like you in the video. A Q What video? Of the people leaving the parking lot after this happened. Really? Yeah. So what I want you to do, Kerran, is ... Yes sir. Is not to lie to me. I want you to tell me the truth. I can tell you're lying, okay. Okay. We can agree you're lying to me? No, I'm not lying. Well, maybe let's, that's a strong word. Okay. You're leaving things out. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q 14 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q Okay. I don't want you to feel it necessary to leave things out, okay. Yes sir. So, let's go back to Saturday, uh, when the crossing is occurring, you're on the bus and I know it. A Q A Q A (Inaudible) ... you can think that, but I'm not on the bus. Okay, well tell me ... I was on the bus when we came, returned to the hotel. Okay. And then I looked at Adrian and then Adrian was like want to go to the room now and I was alright. 'Cause my mom had called me while I was on the bus. Was like we're going out with the family. I was like okay. And that was the agreement with my family. Q You got to the bus, you got to the hotel and you said what now? They were gonna do a hazing? A Q A As we, no sir. Okay, weill didn't understand what you said. Okay, as after the game. I returned on the bus. My mom calls me and said okay we're gonna go out with the family. So get ready when you get to the hotel call me, when you get to the hotel. I was like yes mam. So I went to sleep on the bus to the ride back to the hotel. I woke up once, no, after Adrian wakes me up. We go to the hotel. Adrian wakes me up. It was like, okay, let's go. I was like oh, we at the hotel. Alright, let's go. Get off the bus. Go straight to our room. I get ready. Iron my clothes, call my mom. I'm at, I'm in my room getting ready to go out tonight. She was like okay. After I'm in my room getting ready, I'm sitting 15 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11I1c 1 there waiting. And then uh, sitting there waiting, my clothes are on. I hear a police car zooms in the parking lot and I'm like well, what's going on. And then I hear a ambulance truck come in the parking lot. I'm like, okay, what's going on? So this is probably around like, I want to say 8, around 8 o'clock, 8:30 and I'm like okay what's going on? And then I call my mom and she was like well, since there's a lot of traffic, just come downstairs and meet us outside, by somewhere. I was like alright. So I leave my room, go downstairs. I keep going down I Drive going back and forth. Don't know where I'm going and I was like mom, just meet me at this Pizza Hut, 'cause it's not making any sense to leave my hotel and then try to find you and I don't know nothing about Orlando traffic and Orlando city, so let's just meet at a central location, Pizza Hut. And so I stop at Pizza Hut, just chill outside. Just trying to relax and calm down. My mom eventually picks me up with my cousin. I meet up, try to, try to avoid traffic as possible as we can. As, I guess, as good as we can. Go to the gas station. When she goes to the gas station, I get a call from Adrian. He calls me and he tells me that Robert has passed. And then with my mom fill up the car with gas. I was like mom, just take me back to the hotel. Something isn't right. Just take me back to the hotel. And she was like what's going on. I was like, I don't really know right now, but I need to go back to the hotel right now. And she like, okay. She takes me back to the hotel. After I return to the hotel, I call Adrian. I was like I don't have my keys. I gotta let me in the room. And then he lets me in the room and then he was like carrying on, are you okay. I just go straight to, go straight in my bed and just cry and pray 'cause I couldn't believe really what was going on. 'Cause as my walk toward my room, everybody in the hotel was like well, don't know what's going on. People saying that Robert has passed. Everybody just go to your room and 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A A Q A Q just try to relax for the night and just don't really, I guess, (inaudible) ... what's going on, 'cause we didn't, they didn't really know what was going on. I didn't know what was going on either. So the reason you would have been in the parking lot right after the police car was 'cause you went down to see what was going on? No, I was in my room. I mean, aren't you. I was in my room, just. After I left the bus from the hotel, I went to my room. After, when I was in my room, I was getting ready and I put on my clothes and I heard the police siren and then I looked out the window, I see a police car zooming towards where the buses were at. And then no more than like maybe like 30 seconds later, I hear ambulance car zooming where the buses were at and I was lik~ well, what's going on. So what did you find when you went down to the parking lot? I didn't go to the parking lot. (Inaudible) I guess, I guess the parking lot was like in the back of the hotel. Right. Where the buses were at. And then my mom, and I left out the front of the hotel. I guess that was the front of the hotel. Where I Drive was at. And no, and I had, that's where I guess, where Pizza Hut and Waterworks and (inaudible) was all in that strip. Like a strip of just hotels and restaurants and I went that way. So I didn't exit the hotel from the back where the buses. I exited out where the front was at, a little, I guess a roundabout area where the cars drop off, where the valet parking is at and stuff. That's where I left the hotel to go meet my family. 17 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q But you're saying you never eat that night. No, actually I didn't. And you don't tell you mom right after she just ., .(overtalking). Actually, she came to the hotel with my uncle 'cause she got word too that uh, uh, Robert, your drummer, had passed. So she was scared for me and then. A Q A Q Alright. How does she come to the hotel if you're not, you're with her. No, I wasn't. She dropped me off at the hotel. And she leaves? Yes sir. And she comes back? Yeah, 'cause she got word that Robert had passed. So she doesn't hear about Robert passing from you? No, she didn't hear it from me. That's strange. A Q A Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 A Q A Q (SA Duncan) Q A Who would have called her and told her Robert passed? I have no idea. I mean, 'cause she (inaudible). 16 17 18 19 (Detective Chiota) Q She what? She marched in the 100 back in the 80's. So she knows what's going on. As far as what? What we're talking about. Yeah, she knows about, I guess, Robert Champion's death. She know about your crossing? 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q 18 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 A Q Uh, I don't think so. You told her, I'm sure, right? No. No? No sir. You never told your mom who went to the marching 100 that you accomplished that? 3 A 4 5 Q A Q 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A Q A Q A No. Why would you keep it a secret? Because it's hazing. It's hazing. Hazing isn't good. Um hum. But you did do it. Yes sir. You, how many times did you have to do the hot seat? I really don't remember. More than once? Yes sir. More than 10 times? It couldn't have been that many times? So then you do remember how many times. More than once. It wasn't 10. More than 5? I really don't remember. More than 2. Q A Q A Q 16 17 18 19 A Q 20 21 22 A Q A Q 23 24 25 A Q 19 Kerian Coxl11-104834112-14-11/1c 1 2 3 4 A Q It was more than 2, it was more than 3. More than 3. Yes sir. And you're a strong man. I guess. Well, describe how it happened to you. How did it happen when you went through it. A Q 5 6 7 A Q 8 A Q How does that apply with Robert Champion's death? I just wanted to know. Yeah. How did I? Well, hot seat, what does hot seat mean to you. When you went through, what did you have to do? 9 10 11 12 13 14 A Q A How does it apply what Robert Champion's death? (Detective Phelan) Q We're investigating. FDLE has been tasked to investigate the entire ordeal of the hazing process. A Q 15 16 17 18 19 Okay. So he's trying to establish exactly what's the process, so, the hot seat to the cross over. 20 21 22 23 24 A Okay. I guess as far as a hot seat, uh, just sit in a crouch, hands behind your neck or your head and they put a blanket over you and then you just get hit. (Detective Chiota) Q A Q How many times did you get hit? Can't even count. Is it more than 1DO? 25 20 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11/1c 1 2 A Q A Couldn't have been that much. Couldn't be that much? Is there a time frame? I have no idea. I mean, is it a timed event? You did it, you said what 4 times? No, I didn't say 4 times. I don't know how many times. Okay, say 3 times? You can say 3 times, but that don't remember, I said was more than 3 times. I misunderstood. What did you just say? You said it was either, you asked me was it 10 times. I was like, it couldn't have been that much. You said was it more than once? I was like yeah, it was more than once. So I said 3 times. I don't know how many hot seats I had when I was I guess. 3 4 5 Q A Q A 6 7 8 Q A 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q Is it? What we're trying to understand is there, is there a certain number. Is there a routine? I though you said 4. A I have no idea. I'm sorry. Correct me. Tell me how many you went through. How many? To be honest, I don't know how many hot seats I had to be honest. I really don't know. 16 Q A 17 18 19 20 Q Is there a time frame that you, when you do the hot seat how long you have to be in it? 21 22 23 24 A Q To be in it? What do you recall as it being? Is it 1 minute, 2 minutes? I don't know. Or just as you say uncle. No. (Laughs) A Q A 25 21 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11/Ic 1 Q A Well, I don't know, that's why we're asking. We're just trying to find out. I don't know if there's a time. I guess, I guess it's just allotted to ... 2 3 (Detective Phelan) Q 4 5 Who determines? Yeah, who determines who's in control of like when you can get up. Okay, who, who determines uh, that's what I was gonna ask. Who determines uh, whether how many times or whether you go through a hot seat at night. A 6 7 Q 8 9 10 11 A Q I guess it would have to be the bus president. And that bus president can decide as many times he want that you go through the hot seat part, portion of this. A Q A Q Yeah, I guess. That's the leader. Okay. And who, do you know who the hot, who the bus president is currently? I just said it was Dante Martin. Okay. 12 13 14 15 (Detective Chiota) Q And when did you do your, so then you, after you did the hot seat you did the crossing? A Q A Not immediately after. Right, but I mean you do the crossing after that, right? Uh, yes sir. Okay. And when did you do, finish your crossing. When did you accomplish that? A Q My soph, the fall of my sophomore year. Your sophomore year? 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q 22 23 24 25 (Detective Phelan) 22 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A Do you know when Robert went through. When Robert did his hot seat? No sir. You don't? I don't know nothing as far as ... (overtalking)(inaudible). I'm saying ... (overtalking). Being on the bus or not on the bus or having a hot seat or being cross over. .. (inaudible). Q I'm just saying Robert would have had to go through this hot seat process like everybody else, right? A Q A Q I would assume so. I don't know. Okay, so I'm saying, it was a hot seat, it was hot seats done Friday night. There were? Yeah, quite a few. So I'm trying to figure out why Robert is not getting his then or has he got them at South Carolina or any of those other trips. You don't know anything about him getting a hot seat? A Q No sir. I've never even seen him on the bus, not in the (inaudible). So is there any way if he hasn't got a hot seat, is there any way possible he would try and do both? A Q A Q A Q A The hot seat and the crossing? Yeah. What you mean try and do both? That what they trying run him through to do both that same night? As a possibility. Yeah. Maybe so. I, I don't know. 23 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 Q But to your knowledge, he hadn't done a, he hadn't done a hot seat so he wasn't up to do a crossing? A Not to my knowledge, no. (S.A. Duncan) Q A You a senior? Yes sir. You getting ready to graduate? Hopefully next fall. After I intern. You play with the band all 4 years you been up here? Yes sir. Is this the first time you ever had to talk to authorities about this type of issues? No, no sir. You talked to them before? Yes sir. Reference hazing? Yes sir. What was the result of that? Uh, my freshman, well, they thought it was hazing but it wasn't, it was just, I guess, an altercation, but then like, I guess our freshman class or something and then my freshman brother, he got in a fight with a another one of my freshman brothers and, and he got arrested. One of my friends got arrested. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A (Detective Chiota) Q A For what? I guess 'cause he got charged 'cause he had a ski mask on when he approached the other freshman brother. 23 24 25 24 Kerian COxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 Q A What was the charge? Was it hazing he got charged with? No sir. Assault? Yeah, yes sir. 2 3 Q 4 5 A (S.A. Duncan) Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q You been in the band for 5 years. Yes sir. So there's got to be some kind of loyalty there. Some kind of what? Loyalty. To the band? Yes sir. Are you in a hierarchy? Where's your position on this band? I'm a section leader of the percussion section. You're a section leader. Yes sir. And you have no say so on hot seat, crossing over. No, sir. 'Cause ... As a leader you don't. No sir, I don't You've done it. You've been through the process yourself. Yes sir. And your leader. Yes sir. You don't know what's happening with it. With any crossing over, who's gonna be next? No conversation with anybody pertaining to that? 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 25 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/1c 1 A I have no input because I'm not the oldest person in the band. I guess it goes between like years in the band. That, what, that's how it goes, years in the band. As far as leadership, I guess seniority. 2 3 4 Q A Q But 5 years. I'm not the oldest person in the band though. Who is that? 5 6 7 (Detective Phelan) Q 8 Dante. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (SA Duncan) Q How old is he? He came here in '05. I don't know how old he is, but. Is, I mean, the old crossing over, hot seat thing, is it taboo to talk to authorities about it. A Q A Q What you mean taboo? I mean you shouldn't talk to your brothers, you shouldn't rat your brothers out of the band. You shouldn't talk to anybody. A Q No, it's, it's I guess you can talk to about it. You said you had incidents in the past. How many incidents you think you had in the past? A Q What you mean by incidents? Pertaining to hazing that you talked to authorities about? Just as far as hazing, uh, no incidents as far as hazing. But as far as, I guess, assault, just that one with my freshman brother and he got charged. A Q Say if you were a willing participant. Which I'm not saying you are. Um hum. A 26 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 Q And what would your perception be if you got caught by school staff? What would happen to you? 3 A Q What would my perception be if I got caught by school staff, hazing? Say, say Dr. White caught you ... (overtalking). Hazing somebody? .. , involved in a hazing. Let's say, what would happen to you? 4 5 A Q 6 7 A Q I would loose my scholarship. Get kicked off the band and ... (overtalking). You see that happen before? Yes sir. I seen people kicked out the band for a instance of hazing. 8 9 A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Detective Phelan) Q Were you present when Dr. White, Chief of Police and several others addressed the band prior to going to Orlando? A Q Outside on patch. Yes sir. And what did they tell you about hazing? They were saying hazing is against the law and uh, that you shouldn't do it and it's bad and it'll destroy the band and you can get charged for hazing. A Q Did they explain it to you that that was a, did that become, was that as a result of the 20-30 people that were expelled from the band or? A Q Can you state the question again? Is that a result. Was that talking they gave you a result of the people that just been ... ? A Oh, yes sir. 'Cause I know some members of the trombone section were kicked out, I guess for hazing or something, I don't know. But yeah, but yeah, it was the, I remember the trombone section was like cut in half. Like there was no 27 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11I1c 1 2 3 4 freshman. And then I seen, that's the, I guess, the then the police came out and talked to us. (Detective Chiota) Q Okay, so when you heard about this, did you go to, the night of, did you go to Dr. White and discuss what had happened? 5 6 A Q No sir. Okay, has anybody told you not to talk to us and tell us the whole story? No sir. Are you trying to protect anybody? No sir, I'm not. Okay. So if somebody said that you were actually on the bus Saturday night? I say that was a lie. That would be a lie? Yes sir. And when you went through your hot seats, how did you feel? I was mad. You were mad? Yes sir. Why? 'Cause I didn't like it. I don't like being hit by like on purpose. If it's not, if I'm not being hit because of I guess, to learn something or by punishment, by like I guess a parent or a father figure, why, why would I want to be hit? I don't, I didn't like being hit. 7 8 9 10 A Q A Q 11 12 A Q 13 14 15 A Q 16 17 A Q 18 19 A Q A 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q You didn't like it? No sir. A 28 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11/1c 1 (Detective Phelan) Q A And then did you get sick? Did I get sick? No. 2 3 4 (Detective Chiota) Q A Q A Q A Did you ever throw up? No sir. How about in the crossing? How did you feel after the crossing? Tired, hurting. Tired. Sweaty. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 (Detective Phelan) Q A Were you more pain, tired after the crossing or the hot seat? It was more, you feel worse after the crossing than you did at the hot seat. 13 14 15 16 17 (Detective Chiota) Q Did you have to do more uh, of, of the hot seats because you're a section leader? I wasn't a section leader in my sophomore year. To become a section leader, is that, is that why? No sir. 'Cause it seem like you would, you were doing more than what the others had to do. Is there a reason for that? A Q A Q 18 19 20 21 A No. I guess not. I guess, the people, I guess, the upper classmen at the time, I guess they know I was gonna be like a leader in the future. I guess that was like well, since he's gonna be a leader. 22 23 24 25 Q You had to do more conditioning. Yeah, you can call it that. A 29 Kerian COxl11-104834/12-14-11I1c 1 Q A Okay. Well, that makes me understand. Yes sir. 2 3 (Detective Phelan) Q Okay. Uh, you raise your right hand for me. 4 5 6 (Detective Chiota) Q One, uh, do we have your current address. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q 3116. 3116. Canmor Place. Canmor? It's one word. CAN M 0 R E. Place. Is that a house or a apartment? It's a house. I stay at my mom. That's your mom's? Yes sir. And where's that at? Tallahassee, Florida. And what's the zip? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q 32302. 32 ... 303. Okay, is there a home phone number there? No sir, we just use cell phones. You stay there and go to school or do you stay on campus? I stay at my mom house and go to school. A Q A Q A 30 Kerian Coxl11-1 04834/12-14-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 Q Okay. And we got your mom's phone number too. Yes sir. Okay. A Q (Detective Phelan) Q 5 6 7 8 9 10 Okay, raise your right hand for me. Do you swear and or affirm that the statement you just gave is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? A Q Yes sir. Thank you sir. Yes sir. A (Detective Chiota) Q 11 12 Thank you very much. Appreciate your time. No problem. A 13 14 (Inaudible background conversation) 15 16 17 18 19 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed 20 21 thiS~~~d~~~~~C"~?-::::~___" 2012. 22 23 24 DETEC I E PHE("AN, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 25 31 Kerian Coxl11-104834/12-14-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RECORDED TRANSCRIPT OF RYAN DEAN INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE VANCE VOYLES CASE NUMBER - 2011-101834 W - DETECTIVE VANCE VOYLES RD - MR. RYAN DEAN NOVEMBER 29, 2011 DP: VV: Okay. I'm going to just going to talk to him real quick. Ryan, uhm, were you on the bus? RD: VV: RD: Uhm, (inaudible). Okay. And I just (inaudible) my name (inaudible). No, I appreciate that. I appreciate the fact.. .. Uhm .... ... that you're even talking to us in the first place. Anyway, okay, let me, let me just, let me make you understand, you said you were gOing to come look for us anyway, but you don't have to talk to us if you don't want to. But I appreciate that, that you're willing to. RD: I will, I mean because the entire, the entire thing is crazy. Uhm .... Well, Ryan, what's your, what's your middle name? Alexander. And please, just, I mean my name, I don't want.... It's just I, you .... ... 1can't have anyone coming after me (inaudible). We're not going to, this isn't ~omething we're just going to spread out to everybody. We have to have it for reasons that we, if we, if. Here's the thing. W: RD: W: W: RD: VV: RD: VV: 1 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 With this kind of issue, we, I'm, I'm a homicide detective. But we don't, we're not looking at it like it is a homicide because nobody would, nobody intended to do anything bad; it just happened. But because somebody died we're the ones that investigate it. RD: Alright. Alright. So, uhm ... I understand. ... but we have to write a report. And whether anything ever happens with it or not.... W: RD: W: RD: Okay, I just you know (inaudible) .... Right. ... from everything. Just my family right now is my dad's sick, my mom's sick. If something were to ever (unintelligible) happen to me there's no one to take care of my little sister, so. W: RD: W: RD: What's your phone number Ryan? Uh,302-383-7514. And what's your normal address? Uhm, my home address? Like where we, if I needed to get in talk, contact with you and I couldn't get your phone number and I needed to send you an e .... mail. VV: RD: W: RD: Uhm, 1600 Old Bainbridge, uhm, I guess it'd be uhm, apartment (inaudiblestatic). W: RD: This is it one here? This is the address here? Yes. In Tallahassee. W: 2 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 RD: VV: RD: Yes. Okay. What's the zip code? Uhm, I actually have no idea. Okay. (Unintelligible - static). That's fine. You don't ever get mail there. Alright, do you promise that everything you tell me today will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but? 2 3 4 5 6 W: RD: VV: 7 8 9 10 11 12 113 4 5 6 RD: VV: RD: Yes sir. Okay. What, what is the deal? Alright, well, me, I, I get, I get motion sickness. So on the bus, whenever we get on I have to go to sleep otherwise I throw up. W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: Okay. So after the football game I got on the bus and I went to sleep. Where do you sit on the bus? Uhm, middle to the front. Okay. (inaudible - static.) So when I woke up the buses were parked. And I guess everyone had you know, started getting off. So I decide, I got off the bus and just because like there was a little commotion in the back, like people you know, like, you know, just talking loud. I had a headache and I had to go to the bathroom . So I got off the bus and stated walking to my room. I realized I didn't have my glasses. Because I put my, when I go to sleep I do this with my glasses. 17 18 19 .20 21 22 23 24 25 W: RD: VV: Uh-hum (affirmative). I realize (inaudible - static.) (Inaudible) was to uh .... Hold on a second. I'm going to have to call you back. Okay. 3 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 RD: (Inaudible - static) glasses (inaudible) because I always put them in my bag. So when I went back on the bus I noticed that there was some commotion going on. I couldn't, I couldn't see exactly what was going on because without my glasses I can't see. But there was something going on. And I was like (inaudible - static) I'm just looking for my glasses because I don't have any contacts that I can wear. So without my glasses I'd of been stuck. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 VV: RD: Uh-hum (affirmative). And I can't see. So I heard, I, you know, I heard them, I heard people yelling, but I couldn't exactly make out what was going on, or what exactly was happening. 10 VV: RD: Okay. So I look for, I was looking for my glasses and hoping that they weren't getting stepped on. And as soon as I, as soon as I got my uh, glasses and I got my (inaudible- static) and my, and my uhm, (inaudible-static) I left and I went to my room. 11 12 13 !14 15 VV: RD: Okay. Then I went out uhm, I went out with my friends uh, (inaudible - static), uh, you can talk to them. They'll, you know, just in case. 16 17 18 VV: RD: Okay. Uhm, I went out with my friends Lee Pearson, Brianna Williams, Bayshaun Holmes and oh, what's Jerome's name? Jerome Durham. And Jared Johnson. So after I got my stuff I went, I went to my room. I showered and then I met up with uh, Lee. Because we were all talking about going to get something to eat. You know it's the last, the last night of the band season. So .... 19 20 21 22 23 24 VV: RD: Do you, are you on, uh, do you sit on "bus e"? Yes, I do. 25 4 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: Okay. None of these people do that you were hanging out with? No. Okay. You sit in the middle of the bus? Yes. (Coughs.) You weren't there during any of the thing going on? No. Uhm .... When did you go through "bus CT I did that 2008. Okay. And ... And what's your, what, are you graduating this year? Uhm, the beginning of, uh, hopefully in the fall. The fall or spring. Okay. You sit in the middle section because you've gone through, and I know that there's a hierarchy and there's a you know, depending on when you did it. how far on the bus you're allowed to go. And I know how this, I know how the whole thing goes down where as soon as the bus driver gets there she says "Bus three whaaa", and gets off the bus, then you guys do your thing. Everybody stays on the bus. Here's what I want you to understand, we've already talked to a bunch of people. We already know how the whole thing went down. W: RD: W: RD: Uh-hum (affirmative). So what you're telling me is that you, you, you got off, and then you got back on. We also have video of the bus the entire time. And nobody's leaving. Nobody's getting on in the middle. It's all everybody stays on the bus, then everybody leaves. So the, the idea of you forgetting your glasses and forgetting your contacts isn't true. You going back to your apartment, your, your room isn't true. W: 5 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RD: Uh ... You were on the bus the entire time. We're not here to get anybody in trouble. We're getting, we're here to get people to tell us the truth. The people that don't tell us the truth are in one section, and the people that are, do tell us the truth are in another section, okay? And I don't know how this is all going to play out. I'm not even the lead detective on this. I'm just helping out because there is so many of you guys to interview. W: RD: VV: Uh-hum (affirmative). But I don't want you to start out by, by telling me the story that you've thought up since we've been, we've been gone for about a week and you've had time to think about a story that could put you out of the, out of the mix when you're not, you, what you guys were doing in your minds wasn't commit, wasn't committing a crime. Even in my mind sometimes it's not committing a crime; it's just a tradition. You didn't mean it for anybody to get hurt, and you didn't force anybody to do anything. Uh, would that be correct? Did, did anybody force you to go through in 2008? RD: Uh, there was some debate. Did they physically make you go through? No. Or did they pressure you, peer pressure you to go through? They peer pressured. Right. Nobody wants to get beat up. Huh, nobody that went through wants to get beat up on their own. They're not going to go yeah (affirmative), I, I volunteer. I want to get beat up just because. If you don't do it you get, you don't get respected and you get ostracized like you're in the Amish and you, you had W: RD: W: RD: VV: 6 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 sex before marriage or something, okay? I understand that. So it's important that you tell the whole truth. RD: VV: RD: Okay, uhm, sir, uhm .... Yes? You, you do say you, that you do have videos, correct? Yes. Uhm, you, you will because I do, I did, I did get off the bus before everything started because I had a, as I said, I wanted to go eat with my friends and I had to use the bathroom. I actually could tell you; .... W: RD: 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: RD: VV: RD: But for you to get on the middle, get back on the bus during all the, all the stuff.... Uhm, may I interject? Go ahead. If you look, if you have footage of the entire you can see me. Like because I got off the bus and I started walking. And I had to go to the bathroom. And I actually used the bathroom on the I. .. left side of the bus sir. VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: W: You, you mean you peed by the bus? Yeah (affirmative), like off (inaudible - static). Okay. I did, I did get off the bus. But then you got back on it? (Inaudible - static.) So you didn't go back to the, you didn't go back to the hotel? You got off the bus to take a leak and then got back on? 7 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 RD: Yes. But I started, I started walking and I realized I didn't have my, because I al ... when I get on the bus I put my room, put my room key and my phone in my red bag, my red Honda bag. And I put it on there and I .... 2 3 4 W: RD: What's the red Honda bag look like? It's uhm .... Does it have a big H on it? N ... no. It's just, it's just like, it's like a, it's like a small book bag. It's two toned. And it had, it has, it has Honda Battle of Bands written in a arc .... 5 6 W: RD: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 W: RD: Okay. ... in the middle of it. And just for the purposes of looking, when, when, when looking through the video tape, I'm not saying that I've seen all of the video tape. I think that we have it and that the other detective that's in charge has seen it all. VV: RD: Yeah (affirmative), but.. .. So if I can say hey, look for the guy with the Honda Battle of the Bands. Yeah (affirmative), I did. So I did get off and I did, I started walking and I realized I didn't have anything. And I really had to go to the bathroom really bad. But I wasn't going to go the bathroom on the bus. That's kind of nasty, disgusting. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 W: RD: W: RD: Hmm. So you weren't on the bus? Hmm? You mean, I was, I was on there when I got back on to look for my stuff. Why would the people that have gone through and talked to us say that you were on the bus? W: RD: (Inaudible.) (Inaudible), I'll, I'll show you. If you'll look right there. You are Ryan Dean, right? Yes, I am. VV: RD: 25 8 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 VV: RD: Alright. See your name right there? Yes sir. See the little check marks? Yes sir. One, two. That's at least two people that we've had these piece of paper when we were having it, talking to them, and check marked. You'll see some other ones here. Like there's X's near all the doctors obviously. There's, see there's X's there. X, X, check, X. These are the people that have, more than one person have said this person wasn't on the bus. More than one person has said that you were on the bus. I'm not saying that you were doing anything horrible, anything different than anybody else. But when you've got, when you got back on the bus who was going, who was going through? 2 3 4 W: RD: VV: 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 RD: I couldn't see so I don't exactly know. Who was in the front of the bus that hadn't gone through yet? Because we know more than one person went through. Three people went through. So who was waiting to go through? Who was already going through? W: RD: I, I don't know. Unfortunately I was, I was caught up in my, my situation, looking for my stuff. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: RD: W: RD: W: RD: W: Where, but you're sitting in the middle of the bus? Yes. So all your stuffs in the middle of the bus. Yes. And they're going through. So how are you even going to get to your seat. ... Well .... .... without, without getting hit? 9 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RD: VV: When I got, when I got back on it was towards, they were towards the back. (Coughs.) As I understand it, just pretend that this is the bus. This is one side, one side is the uh, the, the aisle that goes through it. Maybe you can correct me. I'm going to say this, this is the front of the bus, this is the back of the bus. RD: Uh-hum (affirmative). A person goes through here. And is, are people sitting in the bus the whole way through? Or is it like a group of people that follow as the guy goes through? W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: Uhm, it, honestly it, I guess (inaudible - static). How'd it do for you when you went through in 2008? When I went through I got, it was more of a group of people following me ... Okay. ... (inaudible). So ten people on each side. Say there's twenty people. Say, say there's thirty people. Fifteen people on each side. RD: Uh-hum (affirmative). And they move with you as you go through the bus. And they're, they're hitting on you. And how are they hitting? W: RD: Uhm, it's just you know, if you, when I went, when I went through I had uhm, I had a dislocated shoulder. W: RD: VV: RD: Uh-hum (affirmative). Just from, from prior, from working out before. Okay. And I told, I told them you know, because at, at first I wasn't going to do it all. And (inaudible - static) and said, you know, if you want to be somebody you 10 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 have to do it. And I was, I was consistently saying no. And then I guess somebody, I guess eventually somebody you know, kind of convinced me. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: Who? I don't remember. Are they still here? I don't believe so. It was, it was a old, it was older people. Okay. Older people. Who's in charge of it now? The oldest person, which would be Dante Martin. Yeah (affirmative), we knew. Who, who does he discuss all the stuff with? He generally discusses all his stuff with I guess, I guess the older people. Which are who? Uhm, Darryl Corneal. Okay. Uhm .... Who else? Uh, Henry Nesbitt I believe. Is that what they mean by if you want to be somebody? When you said if you want to be somebody you have to go through, is that the people that you want to be, that you get to be later on? W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: I guess, not really. It's just, it's kind of like just a respect thing. Okay. Like we've been .... Alright. Now Dante talks to Darryl, Henry and who else? W: RD: W: 11 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RD: I don't, I don't know. So .... Like I said, I'm, I'm in the middle of the bus and ... Well you're closer to the back than some of people we've talked to. I. .. So you would know more. If you're, you, you've, you know more than .... I mean I just, just going based on some person's like personality, strong personality. And when I get on the bus I'm asleep the majority of the time sir. W: RD: W: RD: W: RD: W: RD: When does the buy have, when does the "bus e" ritual happen? It happens once, once we get to like the hotel or something. Every game? No. Does it happen before the games, after the games, sometimes both? Really whenever they all come (inaudible - static). What's the hot seat? The hot seat is just like when you mess up you get a hot seat. All it is is you, they send you to the back and they kind of just, they tell you to crouch down and they just kind of you know, hit you in your back a little bit. W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: W: RD: VV: RD: Who? They'll kind of.... Who does that? You ... Everybody? You don't know. So you're facing the back of the bus sitting down in a .... W: RD: VV: 12 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 RD: No, you're fa ... you're in, you're in the back and you're crouched down and they put a blanket over you so you can't say anything and to shield you from direct blows. 2 3 4 5 6 7 VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: And what are you getting it with? Just hands I guess. Open hands? Closed hands? Open, cl. .. some closed I believe. When was the last time you did a hot seat? I did a hot seat? Yeah (affirmative). I mean was the last time you were the victim of the hot seat? Uhm, actually not too long ago. Not too long ago? Yeah (affirmative). So, it doesn't matter what year you're in if you screw up. How, what did you do? Well, I was, I wasn't being active I guess in everything that we're doing. And it's, it's kind of like if you don't participate then you know, you're frowned upon. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 W: So if you don't hit during a "bus C" ritual then you could end up getting in the hot seat? 18 19 20 21 RD: Yeah (affirmative). I mean not just solely on that, but it was because a lot of people thought that oh, that I wasn't being active in it. And uhm, one of the games we had lost, we had left our uh, quad harnesses. So uh, actually we had left seven of them. 22 23 24 W: Okay. And that on top of them feeling this way about me then kind of caused me to get a hot seat. RD: 25 13 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: Why do you stay? Because I honestly just love the drum. It's just, it's my passion. What do you play? Uh, percussion quads specifically. Is those the four drums right here? Yes. That's the one that's in the front of the drum line with all the stuff? Yeah (affirmative). I mean that's that the only, the only, the only thing I have to go on. Yeah (affirmative), a lot of people don't know what they are. It's kind of funny (unintelligible) drums. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 VV: Alright. Uhm, (coughs), did anybody have to do the hot seat before this one today, or uh, I. .. you know, the, the Classic? 13 14 15 16 17 RD: I, uh, maybe. I, I honestly don't know because I was asleep the entire time because I was up all night packing. W: RD: Do you know who, who went through? Do I know who went through? Yeah (affirmative). Yes I do sir. What are their names? Lis, Lissette, Keon Hollis and Robert Jeremy. Okay. What's the feeling when, when drum majors go through. Uhm .... Is it different than when Lissette went through? Uh-hum (affirmative). 18 W: RD: VV: RD: 19 20 21 22 W: RD: 23 24 W: RD: 25 14 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: I mean because I've, I've talked to, I've talked to people and I've seen what everybody looks like, and I've seen what, how big Lissette is compared to how big Keon is. RD: W: Yeah (affirmative), I mean not.... Now Keon's six, over six foot tall, Lissette's a girl, small ... Yeah (affirmative), uhm .... And Keon threw up but Lissette didn't. Yeah (affirmative), I mean as far as I know just from past experiences, because as I said, I, I don't, I don't approve of it just because I had a incident (unintelligible) in 2008 starting off and I was hazed and I didn't like it. So generally, generally when they start doing this I usually just leave. But they were, as far as I know it was the same. And I know they, they make exceptions like uhm, like I know somebody had a, a pin in their leg, and they said don't touch their leg. Uhm, I know Lissette I believe she has bad kidneys. And I overheard, I overheard somebody saying, "Don't hit her in the kidneys. All open hand." And so there wasn't, you know, I don't, I don't think there was anything (inaudible static and talking over). RD: W: RD: W: (Coughs.) See that, that makes a, that makes, see I knew that about Lissette and her kidneys, and, and that's something that you would know if you were in the bus when it happened. RD: VV: Yeah (affirmative), I mean I heard, I heard them, I heard them talking. When? When I woke up. But again, this isn't something that you can just sleep through Ryan. No, this is, no this is, I wasn't. ... RD: W: RD: 15 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011?101834/GG 1 2 VV: You mean you went to immed ... you went, when you got on the bus you went to sleep as soon as you got the ... as soon as you got on the bus you went to sleep, and then you know, the ten minute ride to the, to the hotel or whatever it is, you were asleep in that ten minutes? 3 4 5 6 7 RD: Yes. That's some, that's talent there as far as sleep goes Ryan. It's hard to believe. You know what I'm saying? I mean being able to sleep that fast and not being part of, part of something that everybody says you are a part of. Yeah (affirmative), I, I understand that you don't like it. I, you get, you're getting hot seats for, for, for not participating. But you're there during the time when you know, when you hear about Lissette not being hit in the kidneys. Uh, was there anything about Keon that needed to not be done? W: 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 RD: I don't, I don't remember. What about Robert? No. Alright. So you did not have anything to do with this one? No, I did not sir. And you left? Yes sir. And the video will show that you left? Yes (affirmative). What if the video doesn't show that you left? Now what are we going to say? That you're lying about everything? W: RD: 16 17 W: RD: 18 W: RD: VV: RD: 19 20 21 22 W: 23 24 RD: No. Because I, exactly as I said, I got off... Were you leaving, were you walking with anybody? 25 W: 16 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011?101834/GG 1 RD: I don't, I don't remember honestly. I'm sorry. Alright. So you got off the bus to take a leak. Got back on the bus to get your glasses, and then you got off? 2 3 VV: 4 5 6 7 RD: Yes. And you don't know who was in the middle of going through when you went, when you went on to get your glasses in the middle? They were already towards the back? VV: 8 9 10 RD: Yeah (affirmative). And uhm, on the way back did, did you guys have a conversation of, did they have a conversation about what had happened and ... .when did you find out that Robert was dead? VV: 11 12 13 14 RD: I found out aft ... after I got back to my room I took a shower and met up with my friend Lee. And then when we were, when we were heading out uhm, s ... I, I saw Darryl uh, run by and say. And I heard him, like I heard him like talking. And like he was kind of in a paniC. And I was just kind of looking like. And then I heard him say, "Oh, man, he's hurt." And I just kind of ignored it and just kept going about my business. And then we got, and then we were in the lobby. Then we heard that he had been taken to the hospital. And hours later, or whatever the time frame was. Then we heard that we were, we were sitting at Bahama Mama eating and someone called uhm, DeShawn and was like Robert had passed. So, and we were kind of just uh, won ... we, at first we were just like you know, is that true or it is just a rumor. And then so everyone made some calls. And then everyone's kind of hearing the same thing. After that we, after that we rush back to the hotel and .... 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VV: You didn't see him getting CPR getting done on him? 17 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 RD: No. You never knew anything about him being any problems at all until you heard that he was gone already? 2 W: 3 4 5 RD: VV: RD: VV: Yes. Okay. And .... What's it like on the bus when you're going through a, when you're running through? 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RD: When I went through? Yeah (affirmative). It was just, it was ... I mean how hot it is, cold it is? Is the bus on? Bus of? What's, what's the deal? The bus is off I believe. Uhm, it's just, it's, I mean it gets how from like people sweating and everything. W: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: VV: RD: What about the bus driver? Did she know about it? I do believe so, yes sir. Why do you think she knows about it? Just because there's no way something like this could happen and you not know about it and it being on your bus. There's .... W: RD: She ever been in there when it's happened? Yes sir. She's been in, was she in there when you, when you went through? Is she the same bus driver that was there when you were there? W: RD: Yes. 18 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011?101834/GG 1 VV: So for the past three years she's been the bus driver on that bus? And you've seen her in the bus when it's gone on? 2 3 4 5 6 7 RD: W: Yes. Okay. Was she present this time? I don't, I don't believe so. I don't remember seeing her. But when I got on I couldn't see because I don't, I didn't have my glasses. And I just saw like shapes instead of actual people. RD: 8 9 10 11 W: Okay. Anybody that you know that she was on there you know for sure? (Talking on phone to unknown person.) 10-3. (Resumes speaking with Mr. Dean. RD: Uhm, I know uhm, I can speculate but I. .. I don't want you to speculate. (Inaudible). Okay. Do you swear everything you told me, and again, your name is Ryan Dean. Do you swear everything you told me is the truth? 12 13 14 15 16 17 W: RD: W: RD: VV: RD: W: Yes sir. Okay. That's it man. (Inaudible.) I told you that, that your name will be on a report as far as a witness goes, but we're not going to be releasing it to the news. We're not going to be doing anything like that. You're, you're a witness. You're saying that you weren't there wouldn't happen, but you know about the stuff that did happen and you were able to provide past history. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RD: Yes. 19 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 W: We appreciate that, but you know, it's, and again, I'm not the detective in charge. I was (unintelligible). Do you of anybody that wasn't on the bus? That left with you? 2 3 4 RD: No, because like I said, when I, when I woke up like the buses were already being exited. People had already left so I couldn't, I can't say oh, this person (inaudible). 5 6 7 8 9 VV: See, that's just, that's just in direct contradiction to what some people have already said that nobody leaves. It starts as soon as you guys get there. That's not the truth? 10 11 12 13 RD: VV: No. Why would everybody say that, independent. Nobody's sitting, I mean they're all just like you, sitting in a room by themselves with us or me in, in this juncture, and they'll tell me the same, everything different, all stories are different, but there are certain things, different aspects, they're all the same. And, and the one thing that's all the same is that it happens as soon as we get back from the Classic or as soon as we get back .... 14 15 16 17 RD: I mean it doesn't, like because I, I usually get off and leave. So about, about everyone having to stay on the bus, no, that is not true. 18 19 20 21 VV: Okay. Alright man, I appreciate it. Thank you for tracking us down. It's really helpful. RD: W: Because I mean I just, I wanted to come talk to you guys. I appreciate that you did that. Okay. I appreciate that you know, it's, it's, it's uh, it's something that we don't see a lot of. 22 23 24 RD: VV: 25 20 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 RD: VV: RD: Yeah (affirmative), I mean it is, do you mind if we just talk for a little bit? Sure. Like it was when everything happened, it was, like and I heard everything, because I was friends with Robert. I knew him. He was, he was a good person. VV: Did he want to go through? Uhm, it, it's, it's kind of weird because uhm (inaudible - static) anything like (inaudible) anything, he didn't do anything. But earlier that weekend I had talked to him and he was like, he was like, "Oh, I'll see you guys on the bus." And I was kind of just like, "Why? You, why?" And like he said it just so nonchalant like I mean I thought, I thought that was weird, out of character for him just from the type of person he was. Because he never, he never approved of anything like that. Never, you know, (inaudible) so I'm just kind of.... RD: VV: Why would you say that that way? Why would he say that to you if you're not one of the people that goes on the bus on a regular basis. Why would he say Why would he say he's going to see you on the bus? RD: (Inaudible - static) like because he, people know who, who's on the bus, who did it and everything, so they kind of categorize everybody as uhm, even though you know, not everybody participates. People, a lot of people, some people just go through just to earn their respect and then after that that's it. There's really no .... VV: Is that who you are? Excuse me? Is that what you do? Yes. I just went through (inaudible - static). I aspire to be a leader in this section. I want to a section leader one day. And I've had many talks with people RD: VV: RD: 21 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 and they're just like you can't be a, you can't be a leader in this section without being in this section. And you're like it's kind of.... VV: RD: Who makes the decision to make you a leader or not? Dr. James. But the thing is he, I've seen people that he's put as, in the leadership role and the rest of the section has disrespected him like blatantly and not listened to him all because ... 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: RD: And what does Dr. James say about that? Hmm? Dr. James doesn't know it at all. He's, and he'll (inaudible). So why would he take somebody out of a leadership position if they don't have the respect of everybody else? W: RD: He's never (inaudible). So then you don't need to go through it to be in a leadership position. You're just going to get disrespected while you're in that leadership position. VV: RD: Yeah (affirmative), right. But you're still the leader. Correct. So why go through it then? Just so you don't have to deal with the hassle? Yeah (affirmative), because .... That's not a leader Ryan. That's not a leader. You, you want to aspire to be a leader. And we're just talking frank, right? VV: RD: VV: RD: W: RD: Yes sir. That's not what a leader does. A leader doesn't condone crap like this. You shouldn't have to get beat down to play in a band. You shouldn't have to get beat down to do anything unless you're in prison, okay? That's prison warfare. It's not, not human, human warfare. You're in a band. You're representing the W: 22 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-1 01834/GG 1 2 school. And if you want to be a leader you stop that from happening. That's how you be a leader. No matter whether or not somebody else, you're not going to, if you want to be a leader you uh, you might as well get ready right now. People are not going to like you and then people are going to disrespect for your, disrespect you. That's, that's what the drum majors are, right? RD: Yes sir. And people don't like the drum majors. Every chance they get a chance to, to hit one of them they do it in this. The only time they get to do it is here. And everybody we've talked to the drum majors got it worse in going through "Bus C." If you're going through "Bus C" and you're a drum major you're going to get worse then it, then if you're a percussion. Everybody but percussion is going to get it worse because you're not part of the gang. Gang being the operative word here. They actually told us, drum majors are like the police. When you get a chance to hit one you do it. That was actually told to us. And that's what I'm saying, you want to be a leader? You're not going to be respected by thugs being gang members. You are going to get respected by the leaders, by their people of quality. But if you fall in with the ones that aren't going to respect because somebody didn't go through some stupid ritual, you're not a leader. You belong for, you belong in the bottom with everybody else. And I'm being frank with you. Would you agree with that? RD: VV: Yes sir. Then what's your job that, what's the job that you need to do to be a leader, if this band even continues, is to stand up and say no, this isn't going to happen. Because it's wrong. You didn't like it when it happened to you. And now somebody's dead because of a tradition. And this isn't the first. We had one at 3 4 5 6 7 8 W: 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 U.C.F. She drank herself to death. Tradition. Had another one in another school. The whole reason that this whole thing is a problem in the first place because he got beat to death and gone on kidney dialysis. Uh, you, you shouldn't have to tell somebody hey, I got a kidney problem and I've got a broken collar bone to go play in the band. It's ridiculous. RD: VV: RD: (Inaudible.) I appreciate the fact that you talked to us Ryan. Uh-hum (affirmative). But you want to know what a leader is? You know what a leader is. I see the, and I imagine that you're in good shape. You got, well you've had wrestling on you. You, you've done some stuff that, you look like a smart, bright, educated guy. Way too smart to be doing this. To be involved in any way, shape or form, or letting people go through it; your friends. Because Robert was your friend, right? RD: VV: Yes sir. You could have said no, what, what are you doing that, you could have actually said, why are you doing that? RD: And you know I kind of just, I kind of thought about that when he, when he said you know, what he said. I didn't know, like when he said it he kind of said it like jokingly, like nonchalant, "Oh, I'll see y'all later." And it was kind of like I did, I did have that thought then why, why, why would you, you know, why would you (inaudible). VV: Well nobody's going to stop him. Nobody's going to stand up next to him and say no, he doesn't need to do it. Those aren't leaders man. Leaders step up. And I, I don't mean to be harsh, but it is what it is. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 W: 24 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 RD: Yeah (affirmative), just I don't know. Like I kind of feel like you know, if I would have said something to him like hey, you .... 2 3 W: If you would have said something? If, if, you know, Dante had said no, if, if the head drum major had said no, the he'd be alive. This is something you're going to be, this is something that you're going to deal with the rest of your life. This is, this is a turning point right here Ryan. Sometimes the hard decisions, they're hard decisions because they're hard. You got to stand up and be the man and tell people no. Do you think this job is fun for us? People hate me for what I, for what I do. But then they want me there when something bad happens with them. Does that make any sense? 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 RD: VV: RD: Yes sir. I, I wish you luck man. Okay. And just this question because I don't know, you said people were, said I was there, but now from, from your personal (inaudible) ... 15 W: From what you're saying, you're saying you weren't there. I can't, I can't take you from anything other than what you said to me. You swore that you're telling me the truth. 16 17 18 19 20 21 RD: Yes sir. We'll look at the video. We'll s ... try to find that, that backpack that you were wearing to see that you left before everybody else, and that's what the detective will go on. We can only go with the facts that we have. (Sighs.) Whether or not you were on there, I mean there's a lot of people on that bus. You, you've, I know by, by, the, by the way you've reacted now that you feel some kind of blame for what happened for not helping, for not stepping up. W: 22 23 24 25 RD: Yeah (affirmative). 25 Dean, Ryan/Case #2011-101834/GG 1 2 3 A 'Cause you know just... everything going on it's just like I don't.. I don't want to get caught up in something that I wasn't part of. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 4 5 Yeah. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Okay. I know this is a serious matter. Okay. Some ... like there's gonna be consequences four people got put out of school. can't, I can't afford to do that. Especially if I know that I didn't do anything to hinder him. If anything I tried to help him. Q A Q A Q Okay. And that's, that's .. that was my only thing like Well until you told us that we WOUldn't have known it. Yeah I mean .. And we got get it straight and I hate to use the expression straight from the horse's mouth. And if you're willing to stand by that then that's what I take as, as being the truth. 'Cause you know I mean as I said, we .. I knew what you were 6 7 A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 trying to do was bits and pieces and it's never gonna work. The only way it'll Q A 21 work is if you tell me and then I say, okay I can assess what's occurred here 22 23 24 25 A because that means um, that's solely the truth. And then when that piece (Inaudible) ... back and forth yeah. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, 96 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB Okay. From, from where I am here what is ... Well is it... let me ask you this. Is there anything else that you, you want to tell us as far as your, your statement here? No. Okay, let me ask you this though. If, if there comes up something else or you feel that you want to talk to us. Would you, would you one would you feel free to ah, come and talk to us again and can we talk ah, have that opportunity to talk to you again? Yes sir. Okay. Um, can I.. And if you want to I'm gonna give you my card and if you want to you pick up the phone and you give me a call anytime that you want. I, I'll give you that opportunity in addition. Um, and ah, but as far as your statement and all I'll go ahead and I'll end the statement and we'll talk about your um, ah, your questions as far as that. Okay. Okay. Alright um, we'll just keep it rolling but that's as far as your statement. A far as what's gonna happen this point on. I don't know. We are gonna continue ah, now that I feel I have your, your full statement okay, I can take that and apply it to what's actually occurred here. It we had like the ah, Corporal to say, we don't have all the facts. Until you gave us this much information and what your 97 Ryan DeanlCase #11-101834IGB responsibility is and where you were at. I didn't have this information complete. You were trying to get it out there we're here okay let's go forward from there. We're gonna do this for everybody okay. That's why it's so important whether these people that these other people are on there are so important for you to remember. 'Cause I have to go to them and give them the same opportunity. know people get scared. I know people forget. And say oh that's right so and so was there. So we want to make sure that everybody has the same opportunity. Okay. If anything occurs we're gonna tell you what's gonna happen okay. I don't know what the next step is. We are gonna finish this investigation there's a number of us involved in it. And then once a determination is to how this was going to you know finalize. You will be included in that and you will be notified as to how that will ... You are now the witness okay. How that changes I don't have that you know as to what if anybody's gonna be charged and or who's gonna be charged. When that point comes we're not ah, I will treat you with due respect. Ah, and let you know in advance as to what is the next step's gonna be. I just don't know what that is 'cause I'm not finished. Okay I didn't.. Okay. And you haven't said you know witness I just want to make sure it's... I don't.. as I said, you know 'cause I wanted to come to you guys and tell you um, I did the same thing last time. Right. 98 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A (Inaudible) ... talking. I just want to make sure that I just want to make sure that no one puts me like when people are .. when ... 'cause somebody's gonna you know .. I don't want them to try to drag anyone else into it. Whatever 'cause I know I've heard from certain things that you know all people keep your mouth shut don't say this, don't say that or whatever and I don't want it to be, oh well I heard that Ryan went there on his own and told what he knew. And then don't 2 3 4 5 6 7 want anything to come back against me like that so. 8 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q Well, when we talk to Henry, when we talk to Aaron, when we talk to these people we're not gonna say you know Ryan came in here and told us you did this. That's not the way work. So, don't worry about that. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Right. We give 'em the same opportunity you get. So, if you swear by this statement that this is being the truth. Then I take that statement then I go talk to everybody else. Okay and then we put the pieces together. We're not gonna change it. I can remember some people don't remember everything. But for the most part they know exactly what ... just like here. You've done some explicit details. Which are excellent that will help us for Robert's sake do determine what 15 16 17 18 19 20 exactly happened. 21 If those people choose to do the exact same thing that 22 everybody will have a better picture that's exactly what occurrence and we can make a judgment um, as to what how that applies to what the next step is going to be. It's not an easy process by any means. Those that say oh I'm not gonna say anything or I'm not.. well guess what? Then I don't have anything in that 23 24 25 99 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 section for them. Alii have is all this other stuff and that's not up for me totally to decide is how that is. But if I have everybody saying what their part is one guy saying, I had no part into it and while they're in the middle of it. They're right here in the middle then everybody gets credit for telling me theirs and the person that has nothing, then I make that, we let that. that.. that you know other's the information that goes forward for people to make ah judgment on that, A Okay. Okay. I think that's the fairest way to do it. 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Have him sign that. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Yeah. You just go ahead and put your ah, sign your name then print it down here. This is your drawing. We're just gonna hold that as, as a reference. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q And we're not gonna show that to these other people either. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q No. 19 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 20 Q 21 22 23 24 So, (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q We don't need to. And then just put today's date please. (signing) And today's ... Today's the 6 th . A Q 25 100 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 2 3 4 5 Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Okay. Okay. And .,. Go ahead you have a question? Um, yeah just.. instead of you know just to make sure that everything goes well. Like would you recommend that I talk to a lawyer or anything? Or ... A Q A Q 6 7 A 8 9 10 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 11 12 13 14 15 We .. we can't give you that kind of advise. Um, talk to your parents and ... I'm ... I'm just.. I mean .. (Inaudible) ... I just ... A Q A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 16 17 Yeah we can't give you advise on as to your.. you came in here on your own free will. You were free to leave at anytime. The reason .. and we appreciate you wanting to give us a statement. So, we're treating that as a witness. Until that changes I don't have any .. reason to, to do anything more then to treat that as, 18 19 20 as the facts that you [presented to us. Um, you .. did we already have him swear 21 22 to this? (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 23 24 25 (No verbal response.) 101 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 2 3 4 5 6 Q Um, raise your right hand. Did you swear this statement that you just given is the truth and nothing but the truth? A Yes sir. And if necessary would you swear to exact.. ah, restate the exact same information if asked to do so? Q 7 A Yes sir. Okay. Ah, we'll go ahead and end it, it's about 5 .. : 3:41. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q 102 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this D 0/A, / 3 day ~o:::f;:::6~~""':::'~-=:::::---' 2012 4 5 Detecti SO DEPUTY SHERIFF 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB Redected per FS 1002.221 1002.225 (student records) ~: 42 Unit: HO 19 ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE 4 Date: 03-15-2012 Time Received: 1130 o Receipt Only ~=~:"ipt Property Form 1\11)1'\(1 ( \ It (,Din Type or Case: Death Investigation Race: 383-7514 9-18-1990 M w Dean on II, Dean made a drwaing of the locations on the bus of where Latent Articles: property taken from me and that I have received a copy Address: Others: Phone: Date & Time Received: Impounding Officer Signature: Print Name: Emp ID#: District or Division: eID SupervisorlReviewer: Sgt. Gutierrez Current Assignment/Sector: Homicide Detective Assigned (if known): PhelaniChiota nlll 1 SL m E\ 111[,\( E SQl \D Data Entry Initials: Am! Verified $ SLgi al Ll: E-K 3 - gl-?oL1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JERROD DEASE CONDUCTED BY VANCE VOYLES CASE 11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 This is Detective Voyles (inaudible) with Detective Phelan and investigator Cotton speaking to Jerrod Dease in reference to case number 2011-101834. Ah, it is alright, November ah, 22"d, at 9:36 hours (phone beeping ... ). And we're located at the FMU Law Enforcement Department. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. Detective Voyles 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DP. Detective Phelan A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. U. Q. A. Q. Jerrod Dease Urn, just to get some information in the beginning (over talking). (Inaudible ... ). Jerrod what's your birthday? Ah, January 10th, 1989. 10/89 and is J-A-R-R-O-D (over talking). (Inaudible ... ). And then D-E-A-S right? Yeah (talking in the background). Okay. Urn, you have a number where we can call you for later on or whatever? A. Yeah,843 ... 1 Dease, Jerrod/11-1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. 843 ... 601... 601... 9412. 9412, is this your cell phone? Yeah. Okay. (Background conversation ... Okay you're taking one (inaudible). And do you have another, like a permanent phone, home phone number or anything? Q. A. Q. A. Q. DP. Q. A. That's, that's pretty much it right there. That's pretty much it. Yeah. Okay. Um, do you swear and affirm that everything you tell us today is the truth, the whole truth nothing but the truth? Q. A. Q. A. (Inaudible ... ). Yeah I got, I got to say something real quick man. Alright. I, I, I mean I, I never ... you know what I'm saying I've never been in this situation ... Q. A. Q. A. Right. ...1, I don't know if, you know what I'm saying, I should have a lawyer or you know what I'm saying or Doctor. White should be here. Q. Doctor White will be coming in, in a little bit um, if you want to sit in with him and have him talk with you and, and talk with us, that's fine. We have no problem with that. 2 Dease, Jerrod/11-101834/12-02-11/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Alright. Um, we're, we're not here to get anybody in trouble, we're here to try to find out what happen to Robert. Q. A. Yeah, I mean (inaudible) ... (Coughing ... ). . .. cool, I mean, you know what I'm saying, I just, just wanted, you know what I'm saying, I, I feel more comfortable ... Q. A. Q. A. Okay. . .. if you know (inaudible over talking). Well he is going to be at ten o'clock. So you're willing to hang out for a little bit? Q. A. Yeah. Okay, well then we'll wait till Doctor White gets here and then we can all sit down and talk then. Q. A. Alright. Okay. Ah, what section are you? Oh, I'm a drum major. A drum ... yeah you're (inaudible over talking). (Inaudible over talking ... ). But (inaudible over talking). Saxophone. Q. DP. A. DP. A. DP. A. DP. You know what I'm saying. A. Yeah. End of interview. 3 Dease, Jerrod/11-1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 2 3 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this 4 5 15J.{" day of ~ r t- L, ,2012. 7 8 9 DETEd'T DavePhelan, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 Dease, Jerrod/11?1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OFMARCUS FABRE DETECTIVE ANGELO CHIOTA CASE NUMBER 11-101834 RECORDED NOVEMBER 28, 2011 TYPED DECEMBER 5, 2011 2 3 4 5 6 7 Okay today is ah, November 28th oo 29th , 2011, it's approximately 1637 hours and we're having an interview at urn, Marcus, spell your last name for me. 8 9 Fabre, F-A-B-R-E. R-E, Fabre. At his hose and .. That's F-A-B-R-E, and it's (Inaudible) ... F-A-B-R. .. E. Fabre. F-A-B-R-E. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) That's what I got A. I'm sorry. That's alright. And urn, this is your apartment here? Yes sir. Okay. And Detective Phelan and urn, Detective Chiota here are conducting an interview reference urn, Robert Champion's death. Do you think we could shut that off for.. Yes. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) 1 Marcus Fabre/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 3 4 Q ... second. Thank you. It's a dishwasher noise in the background. Great. Great. Okay you understand that we're recording this conversation? A Q Yes I do. Okay and you don't have a problem with that? No sir. Okay. Um, what is your ah, 13 14 15 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 16 17 18 19 Slapped. No sir I did not, I did not touch them. Is anybody gonna say that you did? Why, why ... A Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 20 Q 21 Why would somebody ..... 22 23 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q .... one of these people say that you, you were there and you were one of the ones that did this? And I don't care if you were or not. 24 25 A I... 50 Ryan Dean/Case #11?101834/GB 1 Q Really. I mean ... It doesn't matter we're just trying to .. I know.. I know I have a few vendettas against somebody and they had you know some problems with me. I know that but as far as actually participating, I did not sir. 2 3 A Q 4 5 6 7 A Q 8 9 You know everybody ... I was .. ... everybody involved in this is scared to death. Because ... whatever happened to Robert happened whether he had a medical problem or something else. Nobody knows right now. And nobody can change that. And people are scared because of that and, and I don't fault you. I'd be scared too. But these people were scared when they came in and talked to us too. That's not a time where we're gonna .. that's, that's not a time for vendettas. These people are scared to death. They're coming in here telling us like it is. Because that's all they got left. That's what we need you to do. We just need you to be honest so that we can put this all together. And figure out what really happened. But we got some people saying, all these people were involved and none of these people want to A Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 say they were. And it's because you're scared and I understand that. And I 21 22 23 24 would be scared too. But you just got to be honest. That's the only way we're gonna get through this. And put this behind us. A I understand that. It's ... 25 51 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 2 3 4 5 It's, it's .. it doesn't... I.. I.. you know if I make a mistake I don't like admitting that I made a mistake. Okay, but we certainly don't want it left that you know you came in here to deliberately misled us okay. A Q Yes sir. So, your participation in it okay, um, it's just that. Okay, you have to, you have to ah, you know I mean I.. you and I both know that you were participating in it. 6 7 8 Okay, so, telling me that you didn't is, is not, is not the truth. 9 10 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q It's not like you made a mistake and went out and robbed a bank. You participated in something that people have been participated in, in this school for 30, 40 years. And then you got punished for not participating in a week before this or two weeks before this whenever that last game was. That doesn't make you this ... Nobody involved in this is, is a monster. Nobody involved in this is the person out there robbing banks. These are people that college kids having fund, getting involved in their college environment. People have made that wrong, but kids are still gonna do it. That doesn't that doesn't make you a bad person. But 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 coming in here and lying to us, that doesn't make you a good person. And that, 20 that's all we're trying to get at. You're not a bad person. 21 22 23 24 25 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Do you feel you're a bad person? (No verbal response.) Okay. If you lie to me do you think that's a bad person? A Q 52 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A Q (No verbal response.) Okay then stop lying to me. Okay. (No verbal response.) Just tell me the truth. Let's, let's, let's put everything aside just tell me the truth of what happened. Okay. 2 3 A Q 4 5 6 7 A Q Sir, as I said, did get off the bus. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I started walking to the hotel, realized I didn't have my stuff on me. Right. I came back on the bus and they were in the middle of everything. The only thing I was, I was trying, I was waiting for them you know to move past my seat. 8 9 A Q 10 11 12 A 13 14 Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) But they didn't you know they were taking their time whatever And who was it at this point that is taking .. It's Lissett? I.. No, by the time I got back on the bus she was, she was in the back. Okay. So, then Keyon. Keyon. I guess Keyon was, I guess Keyon was towards the back towards the middle. A Q 15 16 A Q 17 18 19 A 20 Q 21 Okay. And Robert was just not in the front, not in the middle, just kind of in that like that mid ... that mid (Inaudible) ... The only thing when I was looking for my glasses and everything. 'Cause .. and if you ask anybody that was there. 22 23 A 24 25 Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) 53 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A They'll tell you I was take ... I was asking people for their phone, looking for my glasses. 'Cause I got underneath the seats looking for everything or whatever 'cause I didn't, I COUldn't see exactly which seat was mine. 'Cause you know everything was dark. But so I took somebody .. I took somebody's phone I was on the ground looking for my glasses. I finally found them in the crevice between the seat and the wall. But you know it took, it took me a while to find 'em. 2 3 4 5 6 7 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 and not take part in that. Knowing what just happened to you a week before. Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) But I'm not lying to you in saying I didn't, I didn't participate. I did not. .. I.. I can't see you after you just got punished for not participating. And for messing up, but you yourself told me that some band members felt like you weren't participating in the activities. After that just hap ... that just happened to you a week before .. a week or two, no more then two. Because the games are no more the two weeks apart. That just happened to you a week or two before. You're not.. I could see if you were off the bus and nobody saw you. Getting away with it. But you're not gonna get back in that bus when this is going on A Q 19 A (No verbal response.) It.. it's .. it's not gonna happen. 20 Q 21 22 23 24 25 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q And besides that what we're talking about is that I, I don't want the person that did came in and told me what, what's occurred to not take what they have to say as being true. And then you come in here and then make them a liar. Okay. 54 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 A Q (No verbal response.) I don't.. 'Cause I don't need that. All I need is for you to accept responsibility for yourself. Okay, so what actions whatever they were okay. It's again we're not trying to unchanged history. We can't. We just need to record it accurately okay. A 6 (No verbal response.) And you just, you just told me you're not telling me the truth. So, I need you to tell me the truth. Just.. what are you afraid of right now? Q 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A Q I'm ... What's the .. what's your biggest fear right now that you won't tell me what you actually did? A Q (No verbal response.) Is it because now it'll be different the what we said? I already told you, forget about that. Let's, let's start from the beginning. A It's just, it's just that with everything, you know media-wise whatever they're saying you know. Anyone that was there that saw it, is gonna be charged. And ... 17 18 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 19 Q 20 Don'[t.. And ... Don't worry about the media. The media has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. They take one little .. The media says that this caused his death. We don't know that this caused his death. The med ... you can't listen to what the media says. The media take one little .. you could go out there and say the A 21 22 23 24 25 Q 55 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 sun is blue and the media would turn that into the earth's gonna end tomorrow. You, you .. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 3 4 5 6 But the, the point, the point is this. If you're are involved and you don't want, we don't want the record to show that you're involved and you participated. And media said everyone's gonna be charged. That's what the media's saying. 7 Okay. If you say something that changes how it actually occurred and somebody 8 gets charged inappropriately. Would that be fair? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A Q No sir. No, okay. If you did something then you take responsibility for what you did. Okay. Don't worry about what everybody else says. You're walking out of here okay. Do you not want to tell me the whole truth ... You need to get this off your chest Ryan. I can tell you that right now. A Q I knew (Inaudible) ... Okay then, then I want, I want it to be on record that you told me the truth. Good, bad or indifferent. Please let us figure it out after the fact. Don't let me judge you based on you trying to anticipate what our actionsgonna be. I understand that's, that's a tough one to rustle with. Because the media's got you this. But when 20 you go to, go to home tonight you're gonna know that you said, whatever's 21 22 23 24 25 coming down the pike's gonna come. But it's gonna come because I told them what actually 10 did. And I'll take responsibility. Not what because I talked myself into something that didn't actually occur. And, and mess up everything else. You'll be accountable for what you did. Okay. 56 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A Q (No verbal response.) And that's all we're talking about right now. Once I have that then we will make an assessment from that point on. Okay, but it, it's very clear that if you lie to me that will buy you some a, different aspect of what's gonna go on. 'Cause I have to deal with that. And I can prove that you're lying to me. 2 3 4 5 6 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 7 Q 8 In the end the truth's gonna, the truth's gonna be (Inaudible) ... out everybody's involvement what they did. It's, it's how we put it together as far as whether that 9 10 11 person was honest, or whether that person lied. Helps us put that story together. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Q What, what does Ryan ah, Dean stand for? (No verbal response.) You, you stand for the right thing I know that. We can't change what's occurred. We all agree that it shouldn't have happened. But it has, but despite all that the good people rise out of it because they did the right thing. Now you need to do 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 the right thing for Robert's namesake. But more importantly for your own. Okay. A Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, let's, let's get down to ther nitty gritty here okay. Tell me exactly what you did. Um, in .. in this situation. 19 Q 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Like I said, I got off the bus. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I eventually returned to get my stuff. They were in the middle of everything. So, I couldn't, I couldn't go directly to my seat. 57 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB Correct. So, what I did I took somebody's phone. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And I started climbing over seats to get to my seat. So, ... Why did you take somebody's phone to climb over the seats? I couldn't see. Oh using the phone to see? Yeah. Oh I see okay. The light. Got you. So, I couldn't, I couldn't see. So, I was in, I was on the floor looking for my stuff whatever. 'Cause (Inaudible) ... Go ahead. You're looking for your stuff. So, by then I was on, I was looking between 3 and 4 different seats. 'Cause I didn't, couldn't find out exactly where my seat was, but I looked through it all. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Things overhead, so I was on the ground and then they came by. Who came by? They were like I guess he was making progress. 23 24 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Who? 25 58 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Who? Um, I be .. this is Robert I believe. Okay. Yeah. This is Robert. Okay. So, I'm on the floor, I'm on the floor and they're pushing through and I'm getting stepped on a little bit. So, I got up and I jumped to the next seat. Like here's a seat, and I was on the floor and they stepped on me. So, I got in the seat and went to the next seat waiting for them you know to pass so I could, I can my stuff. Or at least find it. Okay but what did you do when Robert's right in front of you? What are you doing? The on .. I was .. I yelled I told him you know, come on, push through. You know this is .. Do you or so is it, so, the perception is it that you're holding him? Huh, no I was .. 'cause at this point when they finally goOt to me and when I got stepped on. I got behind them. Okay, so now with the perception be that you're trying to push him through? Yes sir. Okay. Alright. So, I told, I told you know I'm yelling in his ear, come on. You know. Okay. 59 Ryan Dean/Case #11?1 01834/GB 1 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 2 Q A Were you, I mean were you pushing him trying to get him through? I, I pushed a couple of people just because you know I'm getting bumped into and I can't, I can't see anything. So, I didn't know so, yes I did push a couple people. 3 4 5 6 Q 7 Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 8 9 Q A Okay so, who'd you push? I.. I honestly don't know I believe it was .. LaSherry. Okay. Like .. And where's LaSherry when she's, when you pushing her? In regard to ... She ... ... Robert? She's behind Robert. Okay. 10 11 Q 12 13 14 A Q A 15 16 17 18 19 Q A Q (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q (Inaudible) ... 20 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 21 22 23 24 Q So, what's he's doing? (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q ... dog pile? I mean are they just kind of piled on push ... 25 60 Ryan DeanfCase #11-1 01834fGB 1 A I mean yeah they're kind of, they're like all around him just kind of getting him to go through or whatever. 'Cause you know he's you know he's tried and ... 2 3 4 5 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... it's just like you know at first you know you start out you make it a couple seats. Then you kind of get tired and you start .. But you know he was still going or whatever. And you know .. A 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Q A Who else is right there with him? Um, I saw.. Aaron, what's his name .. Where is Aaron in regards to um .. Aaron .. Aaron is .. Q A Q 13 14 15 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A (Inaudible) ... Yes. And he's on like the right hand side, but he's like, like kind of jumping up and down. I don't know maybe if Robert fell and he was jumping on him or if he was just truing to jump from .. get to the from seat to seat. 'Cause ... 16 17 18 19 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 20 Q 21 Did Robert fall? I .. I think he like he fell in the seat. But then he ... someone pulled him back up. Who pulled him back up? 22 23 24 25 A Q (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q How far through was he when fell in the seat? 61 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A He was, he was in ... he was toward.,. behind .. I was in back of him and he was a couple of seats, he was like a seat or two in front of me. So, he was ... 2 3 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Who Aaron? No, this is Robert. Okay. 4 5 6 Q 7 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q When you say in back of, towards the back of the bus or towards the front of the bus? You were ... you were ... A Q A Q A Q A Q me? .. towards the front of the bus? Yes I was ... Okay you were behind him? Yeah. As he's going towards the back? He's going this way. And I was this way. Okay. 17 18 19 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 20 21 22 Q And you're pushing him? Yeah I pushed him. Then so now you pushing on Sherry, LaSherry? Yeah I'm push .. And Robert? Or ... A Q A Q 23 24 25 62 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A Like she was, she was behind him I guess pushing him. Or trying to like hold him back. 2 3 4 5 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) But I'm kind of like pushing him so I can get through. A 6 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 7 Q 8 Well you tell me what does it look like she's doing. She's holding him back or she pushing him forward? 9 10 11 A To me it, to me it looked like she was holding him back. Okay. But I couldn't. .. Q A 12 13 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 14 15 Are you getting hit too as you're .. Yeah hit a couple of times. A 16 17 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q And what are you getting hit with? I, just hands. Just hands. Any drum sticks? Any other objects being used at this point? No not that I know of. Okay so, who's hitting him at this point? This is, it's just a cluster I really, I couldn't really see. I ... Well you can see LaSherry and you can see Robert. 18 19 A Q 20 A 21 22 23 24 Q A Q 25 63 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A I can see ... I knew I knew it was Sherry 'cause she had that hair stuff so I saw that like 'cause it was directly in front of me. 2 3 Q Okay. 4 5 6 A But... (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q And you saw Aaron? Yeah I saw, I saw Aaron 'cause he ran from the front and kind of bumped me to get to jump into the seat or whatever. 7 A 8 9 10 11 Q To get ... Yeah to .. ... the back of the bus? Yes. So, you know they were, he was doing to ... A Q 12 13 14 A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... so I was kind of pushing him. Who's on the left side of, of Robert um, LaSherry at that point? Left side. Yeah. You said LaSherry's on the right. No ... LaSherry's behind him. Yes. Okay. I saw Aaron on the right? 64 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 Q Okay who's on the left side? What's his name ... Benjamin ... Oh Benjamin .. um, ... Mack something. Mc .. McNamee? Ma .. M-G .. 2 3 A Q 4 5 A Q 6 A 7 Q 8 A 9 Ma .. McNamee? Yeah. Okay. I saw, I saw him on the left. And what's he doing? He's, he was jumping on Robert. Well, I guess 'cause he .. this is when he had fall .. fell in the seat. And he was kind of like jumping on him. But I can't really .. I don't really know exactly what he was doing. But to me it look ... 10 11 Q A Q A Q A 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q Was he kicking him? It.. he might've been I couldn't really, I.. I just saw him going like this. But I couldn't ... A 20 21 22 Q So, is he standing on the seat? Yes. Okay. So, he's standing on the seat and well is his hands or his feet.. making contact with Robert? 23 24 A Q 25 65 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 A Q I saw, I saw hands. Okay. But. .. And then that's something .. enough to knock Robert over into the seats, on the right? Where Aaron is? A Q 4 5 6 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 7 Q 8 9 Are you, you saying Robert's down on the seat and Ben .. Right. He's like ... And they're like jumping on him? He was like, sitting on him. Yeah. That's, that's kind of... A Q 10 11 12 A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 13 14 15 Who's sitting on him? Like Robert, he's sitting on ... he's sitting in the seat. He's in the seat. Yes. Oh okay. So, he's not moving at this point? No, he's like, he's moving, but like they pushed him in the seat. Okay. And then Ben ... and then I saw Benji jumpy on him. I don't know ... A Q 16 17 18 19 A Q A Q 20 A 21 22 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 23 24 What do you mean? How do you ... Ah, he's ah, he's a real small person. So, it's like he was like holding onto the ah, the um, what's it.. you know where you walk through the bus? A 25 66 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 2 3 4 Oh .. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q The rails? Yeah and he was kind of like just jumping up and down. I don't know if he ... it look to ... I think he was kicking him. 5 6 7 A Q 8 9 Okay. But as I said right no I don't have my glasses so .. You couldn't tell exactly ... (Inaudible) ... ... what he was doing? Yeah, everything is like kind of a blur. A Q A Q A 10 11 12 13 14 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, kind of... so, I was you know pushing trying or whatever. And then I heard, I heard like something like it sounded like, like my glasses being stepped on. Q 15 16 17 18 A Hm. And I was ... backed up and I was looking and they finally moved from the seat and it was a bag of chips that they hade stepped on. But and then you know I 19 A 20 21 still had the phone in my hand. And I'm looking and that's when I found my 22 23 24 glasses. And I found my bag with my room key and once that happened I left. Q Well did you make sure that Robert got to the back of the bus? 25 67 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 6 A I mean I was just.. I didn't want to be involved in this. Just 'cause what happened last time and everything. Q What happened last time? Well I got a hot seat and I was just like ... Oh okay. ... you know that's ... Based on your experience that it wasn't.. Yeah. ... it wasn't a good thing. Yeah it wasn't.. Wasn't a good experience. I was like you know as soon as I found my stuff I left. And I went to, I went to my friend ah, Lee's room and we talked for a couple minutes. We .. we all decided we're going out to eat. So, I went back to my room, I took a shower, changed, met up with Lee and we were downstairs in the lobby. And then and then I see um, Darryl and Henry like kind of running through and I hear 'em say, oh man he's ... you know they're taking him to the hospital. And I was, I was kind of just.. A Q A 7 Q 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 not in shock, but I was kind of like being critical. I was like, y'all took it overboard. A Q A Q A 20 Like why .. I was like, what did you guys do to make someone go to the hospital? 21 22 23 24 25 When everyone else that has done this have been perfectly fine afterwards. And you know .... (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q And that's ... 68 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 2 3 4 5 And who'd you say that too? huh? Who were you saying that too? Oh I'm saying that to myself. Oh. Like, 'cause I saw 'em I saw 'em running. A Q A Q 6 7 A 8 9 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Oh you didn't say that to Darryl and Henry? No. Okay. 'Cause they ... I saw 'em running through and they're like, man he's going to the hospital. Like kind of just ... See that's what we're trying to find somebody who will actually us they were there with Robert at the end. So, that.. so that we can get somebody to describe to us what he was doing. Because this hasn't happened to anybody else. So, maybe there was something else going on with him. And ... I mean ... ... .that's why we're trying to get somebody to tell us what he looked like and what he was doing at the end. I. .. I understand. So .. so, that... But I mean by ... by ... 69 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Q A .. we can see ... I got off the bus before he finished. Urn, I know that, I've talked to a couple of people that were there when .. at the end. Q A Who's that? Ah, Darryl urn, Henry urn, just mainly those two. And when I was talking to them they, they said you know he was .. he was done everything, he was up you know and they were just sitting there talking. 'Cause you know after you finish they tell 8 you ah, the history, they show you the crypt, they tell you, you know when it was 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 founded everything like that. And he said that they were just talking and that he .. you know he was actually up walking around. And then they said, he said that you know he spit up and then started complaining that he couldn't breathe. But I wasn't there for all that. But that's what they told me. Q A Q A So, he was okay until he threw up and then he started ... Yeah. ... complaining of not being able to breathe? Yes. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Okay. So, now is .. is urn, going back to when urn, Aaron .. Is that Aaron Green? No that doesn't sound right. Aaron Goldson? Yes. 20 A 21 22 23 24 25 Q A 70 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 Q Okay Aaron Goldson. So, Aaron Goldson runs by him, jumps over him. Now how.. what is he jumping up on to get.. you saying that, Robert goes into the seat. But um, Aaron is jumping up and down on the seat too. 2 3 4 5 6 A No, um, Benji's jumping up and down on the seat. Aaron went on the other side. 'Cause this .. I was sitting on ... if you .. you're like going to the back. Q 7 Right. I was sitting on the left hand. Okay. Robert fell on the left side of the bus. Oh he fell on the left side. Yes. Benji was jumping on him on the left side. Aaron ... Well he'd almost be jumping on his face then, right? Hm, 'cause he ... Ifhe sat... ... was like, he was literally like sitting up like against the window. Like .. But he's all the way against the .. the, there's two seats right? Yes. So, there's .. he's against the window seat? Yes. And he ... Okay. ... he's like almost like sitting up and I saw Benji jump ah, jumping in the same seat. He's .. but ... A 8 9 Q A Q 10 11 12 13 14 A Q A 15 16 17 Q A Q 18 19 A Q 20 A 21 22 23 Q A 24 25 Q (Inaudible) ... same seat that um, Robert's sitting in? 71 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB Yes sire. Okay and where is he feet landing on him? I, I couldn't tell. Okay. It just. .. I didn't have my glasses on. Okay, but where did, what is ah, Aaron do? You said that Aaron was jumping up and down. Aaron he was, he was going to the back. So, he was in ... 'cause there's people in the aisle. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Whatever and he was like jumping from seat to seat to get to the back. And what was he gonna do in the back? I.. I'm guessing continue um. I just know from past experience that he's been very ... Aggressive? Yeah. Okay. So, what did he do, what did he do before um, he got the, before Robert went down in the seat? Um, he was just you know hitting him from .. Hitting him? Yeah from what I saw. Okay. 72 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/G8 1 A 'Cause I remember I was looking you know I came and I was, I was in the back. I was ... when I got in I was behind Robert. And when I, when I passed over when I got, I got.. climbed over the seat to get to my spot. I looked and I saw Aaron beating him. 2 3 4 5 6 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q With what? His hands. 7 A 8 9 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q And where was he when Aaron was .. where was Robert when this was going on? A Q He was standing up in the aisle. He's standing up .. Okay. And how many times do you think he hit him? I can't say. I.. Well, roughly. Probably 7 to 10 times. Seven to 10 times. Were they fists? Yes. Okay. And where did he hit him? Hm, he was just hitting him like in the arms and ... In the arms. ... stuff like that. And so, that would be his left arm? Yes. A Q A Q A 19 Q 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A 73 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB Okay. Did he hit him in the face at all? In the head? Not.. um, not that, not that I saw. Okay how about the side or anything? I, I cou|dn't really.. 'Cause it was a it was a like a crowd of people and I Okay. So, who else is there? 'Cause so far I only see, I've got, I've got ah, I've got like you got the aisle here. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And' a seat here. tell you what, you draw it for me. Show me where so I understand exactly where it is. Alright, here's the aisle. Okay. Here, these are the seats. Okay. Where's the back of the bus? Back, the back is here. Okay got you. And here are the seats. Okay. And. say this is the front. Okay. A When I, when when I noticed that it was Robert he see this is the middle. Okay. Usually you start right here. 74 Ryan DeanlCa$e #11-1 01834165 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q A Q A Q A Uh-huh. (Affirmative) When I.. when I saw him he was about right here. Okay. So, and he was, he was already starting to go through. Okay. And I wait.. I waited for a little bit to you know for .. Where do you start helping him at? Huh? I start .. Where .. what. .. 7 Q 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A I.. I started helping him right here. About right here? Yeah. Okay. But I waited a little while for him to go so I could go get my glasses. Okay. Thinking you know he's a big person thinking he's gonna just blow through everybody. Now how many people are in be .. ah, on these sides here? I'm gonna say about 3 here, 3 here. Okay. I can't.. And who's on theses sides? I can't.. I.. I honestly just don't remember. 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A 75 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 Q Okay well draw the people in for me. Just put like little circles and we'll put those as people. 2 3 4 5 A Q A Like .. , Okay. ... there's people. Well, they're right here they're not in the seats, they're like right here. 6 7 Q 8 Okay. In .. in .. in the aisle. Okay. So, he .. he was taking him a while so I got, I got here and I climbed over these seats to get, to get to my seat. A 9 10 Q A 11 12 13 14 Q A Okay so this is the left side of the ... Yes. Okay. Left as you look to the back. Okay got you. So, but... Alright. ... that's right before I took um, I took somebody's phone. Alright. I saw somebody was sitting there texting. I was like, hey can I use your phone to go find my stuff? And they were like yeas, so I grabbed their phone and I 15 Q 16 17 18 A Q A Q 19 20 A 21 22 23 24 climbed ... he's right here. He's kind of.. he's still you know going through. But he's not, he's not making progress. He's not moving to the ... Q He's not moving. 25 76 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A Q ... actual back. So ... Has he got his shirt on or is it off? It's off. It's off. Yeah. You .. that's ... That's what... That's just how it is you, you do it with your shirt off. You do it with your shirt off. Yes sir. What do the girls do? Um, they do it with a sports bra or... Sports bra. ... or (Inaudible) ... Okay. But they still have to take the shirt off? Yeah. But they leave a bra.. a sports bra on? Yes. Got you. Okay. Um, so when they're .. he's here I jumped over the seat. .. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) ... to find my glasses. Which was (Inaudible) ... Go ahead. About right here. 2 3 4 5 6 A Q A Q 7 A 8 9 10 Q A Q 11 12 13 14 15 16 A Q A Q A Q 17 18 A 19 Q 20 21 A Q 22 23 24 A Q 25 A 77 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, I'm looking under these seats 'cause I couldn't, like I said, I couldn't find exactly where my seat was. 2 3 4 A Q Got you. But so ... But where had you been before .. when the bus came? When you rode over right before when you got off? And you saw Lissett go through, where were you at? 5 6 7 A Q 8 9 10 A Q A Q I was, I was in the back 'cause when I got. .. Okay. .... as soon .. Alright so where were you on the bus when you .. the ride.. said when you pulled in? Where were .. should you have been sitting? 11 12 13 14 A I was sitting here. Okay. But it was, the way it works like everyone .. like you switch seats, just... No I mean where would you have been ... where was the part that you were trying to get to, to look for your glasses? 15 Q A Q 16 17 18 19 A 20 Q Oh, was right here. Right there. In .. in .. Okay. ... the seat I fell asleep in on the way back. Got you, okay. Alright, okay. 21 22 23 24 A Q A Q 25 78 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Q So, I got over and .. Right. A Q ... .1 was on the floor. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And I noticed you know I.. I hear them coming closer, but I'm like okay, whatever know just.. not.. it.. not touch me. And then they I guess he was pushing them back or whatever pushing 'em you know to make it to the back. And I started A 8 getting stepped on or whatever. So .. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q Q So, now where are you at when you're getting stepped on? I'm right here and he's still like right here. And there's people like between us. Okay well, so put, put ah, um, hmmm, ah, put a star where Robert's at. He's right here. Okay and you put like a triangle. Where I'm at? Where you're at. I'm ... Okay. ... here. And that's where .. And there's people like here in between. Okay well who's these people here? I.. it was just backs I don't know. Okay well where's LaSherry at this point? A Q A Q A Q A 19 A 20 Q 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q 79 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A She might've been, she might've been one of these people. I know she was around Robert, but I can't... I wasn't.. 2 3 Q Okay when you were talking about her eanier you were telling me something about where she was at. 4 5 6 A Yeah. Well, that's .. that's once I jumped over the seat or whatever. Once .. 'cause they started pushing me and I stated .. I couldn't get to my seat. So, I jumped over the seat back. And by then I was, I went from here to around here. 7 8 And I.. and she was right here behind it. 9 10 Q Okay. So, that's LaSherry. Yeah. Okay. And .. So, then when .. when do you start helping Robert? I started like as soon as soon .. 'cause like they kind of stayed right there and I couldn't.. 11 A Q A Q A 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q How long did they stay there? Like a minute. Wow. But a minute you know .. Yeah it's a (Inaudible) ... In this type of situation a minute's a long time. Exactly. Exactly. A Q 20 A 21 22 Q 23 24 25 A Q 80 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 6 A So, I was kind of.. I jut backed off and was kind off and was kind of waiting for him to, just go through. And he was just like, he .. you know he was fighting, but he wasn't.. he wasn't.. Q He was making progress? Yeah so, I .. so I started pushing ... Oh sure. ... LaSherry. Okay. 'Cause I was just like you know I got to .. So, now.. now you're here helping push him there. Yeah. And then, okay. And then they're start.. they're starting to move when I started pushing you know they're starting to move. A Q 7 A 8 Q 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A 20 Q Q A Q A Q A Okay so now he's making movement okay. Yeah. Okay. 'Cause I, I was kind of I was pushing her kind of like move get ou6t my way. Yeah right, right. And you know just ah .. But she's trying to hold 'em back? Yes I believe. (laugh) Okay. A Q 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q 81 Ryan DeanlCase #11-1 018341GB 1 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q I thought you said you were yelling in his ear. 2 3 4 A Q Yes. Okay. 5 6 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q You ... I was .. 7 A 8 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 9 10 11 Q What were you yelling? I was, I was just yelling, go, just go like just go, hurry up. Come on man you can do this. Like just stuff like that. A 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Okay. And he started and then when they finally made progress like they was kind of like a gap like right here where he kind of just.. he made it like 4 or 5 seats. Or whatever like .. Wow. ... busted like .. Busted loose. Yeah 'cause .. Broke the tackle. Yeah .too much he was just like, 'cause in one second they were all right there. And next second he was just like, like you saw people kind of move out the way. 19 A 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A 82 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB And he just rushed through. And that's when, that's when I was able to urn .. 'Cause I still had the phone in my hand at this entire point. In my left hand and then he kind of broke through everybody and made it probably around, around here. Okay. And then that's when I was on the floor and I finally found my glasses. And I found my bag. And then that's when I left. Okay, but when did, when did they .. when does he fall into the seat? And then urn ... He fell .. he fell into .. he fell into the seat right.. like right here within like that minute time span I would say. So, the time ... while he's kind of staggering is when he falls over? Yes. So, now which sides does he fall onto? He falls onto this side the left side. Okay. So, that's about, about where your seat was? Yeah that's why ... Okay . ... that's why I decided to ... Okay. 'Cause I didn't want.. But when .. show me yeah 'cause we're kind of skipping this part we're talking about where they're urn, ah ... Benji comes and starts jumping on him. 83 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 A Q A Oh. He's .. well he fell .. falls in the .. fall in a far seat. And it's kind of like .. Far left side? Yeah he's kind of like you know if you fall asleep against the window how you kind of prop up. That's how he was. And he was still moving, he was still you know .. people still.. got people yelling come on, come on. And he's still moving. And then Benji, Benji urn, got.. was right here. 3 4 5 6 7 Q Okay. And he as kind of, and he was kind of he was holding onto the rails and kind of just jumping up and down. I don't know if he was ... kicking him which I assumed he was. But as I aid ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Now where is Aaron at, at this point? By.. by this point Aaron ... I saw Aaron had urn, he already jumped over these seats and he was here in the back. Okay now Aaron .. is Aaron urn, hitting him at this point over here? Yes. A Q A Q A Okay. So, make .. show where Benji is and make him a um, ah, um, a square. Okay that' Benji and now Robert's the ... Yeah. ... the star again okay. And then like that lasted like 15 seconds. And then, and then Robert I'm assuming pushed him off him 'cause then .. I.. in one second he was there and next second he wasn't. And then he got up and then you know people still holding him. And that's just when he kind of busted through everyone. 84 Ryan Dean/Case #11?101834/GB 1 Q Where did you see Aaron hitting him at? I saw Aaron hit him like right here. Like towards where he started. Okay draw like a little a, um, a rectangle area of where .. He was here. Okay. And then ... And that's gonna be Aaron, right? (No verbal response) Okay put a little A in there for me. Alright. And then that's, you know that's when he started, that's when I was waiting for them to move it along before I jumped .. decide, before I decided to jump over the seats and get, get my glasses and stuff. And then he made .. and then Robert made it by him and then that's when he kind of ran into this crowd of people. 2 3 4 A Q A Q A 5 6 7 Q 8 9 A Q 10 11 12 13 14 A 15 16 17 Q Okay now show me where Aaron goes to once he leaves there. Draw a line and show me where he ... A Q He jumped over these seats and then he goes to the back. And then put another square with his initials .. or.. yeah in there. Okay. And then what time do you .. then when do you leave? 18 19 20 21 A Q A Q I as soon as I found my glasses. 'Cause I heard like I say I heard like a little ... So, they've moved down to here by then right? Yes they're in the, in the back. Okay. And ... 22 23 24 25 A 85 Ryan Dean/Case #11?101834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 Q A Q A Q So, this would be like phase 2 kind of right? Yeah. When he gets to phase 2 that's when you leave? Yeah. Okay. 'Cause I, 'cause I.. 'cause when they were .. when he had fallen in the seat.. when he falls in the seat. And everybody was kind of crowding around. That's 6 A 7 8 when I kind of backed up and I was, I was waiting for everyone to just move so I 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 can get my stuff. And then um, 'cause we sell, we sell snacks on the bus and everything. And what I thought was my glasses breaking was actually a bag of chips being stepped on. Q A Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, when I.. once, once I heard that I kind of backed up and I started looking like from I backed up onto the next seat and I was kind of looking under seeing if you know someone had stepped on my glasses. Seeing if I could see the glass. So, once he .. once Robert broke through and actually made it. Then I got, I found .. I finally found my seat, found my glasses and my bag and then that's when I left. 19 Q 20 21 22 23 24 25 Okay so I'm putting down here this is LaSherry, this is Aaron, this is um, this square here is Ben .. Benji. A Q A Yes. Okay. And that's Robert. Okay um, I was just think ... (Inaudible) ... 86 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A Q A Did you see Darryl on the bus? Yes I did sir. Where was he at? Darryl was .. towards the back sir. 4 5 6 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 7 Q 8 Where's Darryl at in here? Um ... Show me where Darryl's at. Darryl's back here. Um, draw a spot.. ah, come up .. what's, what figure you want to give him? Make him a stick figure. Okay so that's Darryl. A 9 10 Q 11 12 13 14 15 A Q A Yeah. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A What about Henry? Henry. 16 17 18 24 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q So, you saw Henry in the back of the bus? 25 87 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A Yeah. 2 3 4 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Who's this he saying is back here? Urn, I know Henry ... I saw ... That's Henry right there? No, this is Darryl. Oh Darryl. I'm sorry. Got the wrong one. Alright Darryl. That's Darryl and now where do you see ... A Q 5 6 A 7 Q 8 9 10 11 A Q I just, I just know Henry was ... Henry. .... toward , I know he's toward the back. I. .. Is he in the aisle or is he in a sea? Urn, in the, I believe in the aisle. Okay. I can't remember exactly. But.. Okay. Now where's ah, Dante all this time? Dan ... Dante, he .. he's kind of back and forth. He's like, he's checking make sure you know everything is okay. 12 13 14 15 16 17 A Q A Q A Q 18 A 19 20 Q And so he's got to be pretty close to be checking. So, I mean where is he in all this mess? 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Urn, I remember, I remember. .. Is he, is he got hands on too? I mean is he helping? Is he holding? Is he punching? What's he doing? 88 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A Q Not.. if anything he's just pushing through like ... Oh okay not... if anything. What did you see? Again remember you're doing greathere. This is, this is exactly what we been looking for. Um, so where is Dante during all this? 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Q I. .. Is he any of these people in here that these circles that you've drawn? He.. I believe so, but I can't, I can't put my ... I know, I know I just remember when I was looking for glasses I just remember hearing his voice, you okay, you A 8 9 10 sure you want to keep going? And then ... Q 11 Okay so then he's talking to Henry? No ... I mean to Robert? Yeah. Okay. And then Robert replied, yes. And then, .... 12 13 14 15 A Q A Q A Q 16 17 18 Okay and where was this at that he's asking? This ... Was Robert in the seat at this pOint? No, this is when .. this is um, after I jumped over the seats and I was looking ... before they had .. before .. while they were still here at the front when I jumped over and was looking for my glasses. A 19 Q 20 21 22 23 24 A Q Got you. Down here. 25 A 89 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB Okay. I just remember hearing his voice. And then 'cause he .. I. .. I remember hearing him. He has a distinct voice he ... I remember hearing him say it like, a bunch of times. 'Cause you know that's, that's how it goes. You know you keep .. as you keep progressing they keep asking. Right. So, now where was Lissett and um, where is Lissett and um, ah .. ,. If you like I can ... I can leave and I can come back tomorrow if .,. No, no we're, we're almost finished here. They .. they're just telling me that they got some (Inaudible) ... Where's Lissett and ah .. ,. The ah ... . ,. Keyon at this time? They're in the back. So, they're back here. Yeah. So, can you just see which (Inaudible) ... they're on? No. I just, I just know that. I saw when I looked back I saw one of the um, little lights. I saw one of those on. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Assuming that's where they were. 'Cause just check on 'em. But that's where I actually seen 'em. I never made it to the back to actually look at them or anything. Now did you see um, um, so when you left did you, did .. was ah, where was Robert actually at when you left? 90 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 3 4 5 A Q He was, he was back here. Okay. Is h e .. had he made the wall yet back of the bus yet? No. I mean is it true that you touch the back of the bus and then it's over? Yes sir. Okay. So, he hadn't got to that point when you left? No. Okay. Anything else that you want to ... that you need to tell me? Um .. that's just.. that's it. Like on ... like the only thing I did and you can ask A Q A 6 Q 7 A 8 Q 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 A anyone. Is I kind of pushed Robert along 'cause as for actually hitting him. I did not. Q Okay. So, you .. you .. if.. if you .. if someone is trying to interrpate what you're physical involvement there. What would be the best way to assess what it was? Was it.. A Q I was, I was helping him. You were helping him. Okay so you are, you're .. you're actions were to get him to his goal? 19 A 20 Yes. So ... As like LaSherry, hers was pretty obvious to you that it was to slow him down? Yes sir. Okay. Q 21 22 23 24 25 A Q 91 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 2 3 Is somebody comes in here and tells us we say Ryan doing this. It's gonna be pushing him? 4 5 A Q Yes sir. Okay. 6 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 7 Q 8 Now was it that hard? No sir. A 9 10 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q You feel better? I do um, the only .. only thing is this. Like and I don't, I don't want to come off as I was lying. But as I said this entire situation is, this is one of the scariest things that I've ever dealt with. As I said, I. .. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q I appreciate ... 11 12 13 A 14 15 16 17 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q A That's totally understandable. I've ... I knew him. Um ... 18 19 20 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 21 22 23 Q Right. He was a ... you know not the best friend, but I.. you know talk to him quite often and just.. when this entire situation happened my mind kind of... A 24 25 92 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/G8 1 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Yeah. ... like I.. and I apologize if it's an .. if it's seems like I was lying or anything. I don't mean to lie. Don't mean to come off as a liar. 'Cause I'm not it just this entire situation like trying to remember back to is ... Q 2 3 4 5 A 6 That's ... ... it's extremely blurry. 7 A 8 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 9 10 11 Q We understand it and that's and I don't think, did you think we were being anything but trying to help you get through that. 12 13 14 A Q A It... We been doing this a long time and I mean ... Yeah I mean I just don't.. as I said, I don't want to come off as a liar. I don't want anyone ... I don't want to come off as always trying to hide from or he was beating 'cause that. .. you can ask anyone you can ask you know my freshman. That's not me. 15 16 17 18 Q 19 Okay. A 20 21 And .. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 22 23 24 25 Q Like, like we told you before we know you're scared. We know everybody's scared this is a scariest thing y'all have ever been through. We don't expect you to come in here and tell us the whole truth right off the bat. A I mean it... 93 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 Q That's ... A I.. I intend to tell you .. I Intended to tell you it's just that... 3 4 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Right. ... everything .. like it's, it's really scary for me. 5 6 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 7 Q 8 Yeah. Like ... A 9 10 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 11 12 13 14 (Inaudible) ... ....just 'cause .. And I was talking to my ... I was talking to parents about it you know. Soon as it happened I.. 'cause I was scared to go home. And I talked to them about it and they were just kind of like you know they were asking me but even then, everything was like really fuzzy. A 15 16 17 18 19 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) And then .. you know with them I don't know, but my dad's sick and not working. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) My mom stressed out trying to put me through school and my sister,. 20 A 21 22 23 24 Q A (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 25 Yeah. 94 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A And with all that going on they were just like .. and you know they were hearing everyone that was on the bus anyone that knows anything that didn't come forward already is ... 2 3 4 Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, with them thinking of that it's kind of just ... Scaring everybody. Yeah. And it's just God for big something happen to me. 5 6 A Q 7 A 8 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 9 Exactly. My family is ... That's all you have. And, and .... And there's no one to take care of 'em. My little sister so it's kind of... No, and I, I can certainly appreciate, so it's understandable that's why you know ... Like I said we been doing this a long time and I could see that. That's .... And alii wanted to do was make sure we gave you the opportunity. And, and you .. and it's up all up to you. Okay. And alii wanted to make sure was that you understood that you know and this continues. So, if even if we want to talk to you again it's ... we're not threatening you. Okay and, ... Is it .. And I, and I and, and did you felt like you were threatened? No I mean .. , Okay. 95 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 A 'Cause you know just... everything going on it's just like I don't.. I don't want to get caught up in something that I wasn't part of. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 4 5 Yeah. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Okay. I know this is a serious matter. Okay. Some ... like there's gonna be consequences four people got put out of school. can't, I can't afford to do that. Especially if I know that I didn't do anything to hinder him. If anything I tried to help him. Q A Q A Q Okay. And that's, that's .. that was my only thing like Well until you told us that we WOUldn't have known it. Yeah I mean .. And we got get it straight and I hate to use the expression straight from the horse's mouth. And if you're willing to stand by that then that's what I take as, as being the truth. 'Cause you know I mean as I said, we .. I knew what you were 6 7 A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 trying to do was bits and pieces and it's never gonna work. The only way it'll Q A 21 work is if you tell me and then I say, okay I can assess what's occurred here 22 23 24 25 A because that means um, that's solely the truth. And then when that piece (Inaudible) ... back and forth yeah. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) So, 96 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB Okay. From, from where I am here what is ... Well is it... let me ask you this. Is there anything else that you, you want to tell us as far as your, your statement here? No. Okay, let me ask you this though. If, if there comes up something else or you feel that you want to talk to us. Would you, would you one would you feel free to ah, come and talk to us again and can we talk ah, have that opportunity to talk to you again? Yes sir. Okay. Um, can I.. And if you want to I'm gonna give you my card and if you want to you pick up the phone and you give me a call anytime that you want. I, I'll give you that opportunity in addition. Um, and ah, but as far as your statement and all I'll go ahead and I'll end the statement and we'll talk about your um, ah, your questions as far as that. Okay. Okay. Alright um, we'll just keep it rolling but that's as far as your statement. A far as what's gonna happen this point on. I don't know. We are gonna continue ah, now that I feel I have your, your full statement okay, I can take that and apply it to what's actually occurred here. It we had like the ah, Corporal to say, we don't have all the facts. Until you gave us this much information and what your 97 Ryan DeanlCase #11-101834IGB responsibility is and where you were at. I didn't have this information complete. You were trying to get it out there we're here okay let's go forward from there. We're gonna do this for everybody okay. That's why it's so important whether these people that these other people are on there are so important for you to remember. 'Cause I have to go to them and give them the same opportunity. know people get scared. I know people forget. And say oh that's right so and so was there. So we want to make sure that everybody has the same opportunity. Okay. If anything occurs we're gonna tell you what's gonna happen okay. I don't know what the next step is. We are gonna finish this investigation there's a number of us involved in it. And then once a determination is to how this was going to you know finalize. You will be included in that and you will be notified as to how that will ... You are now the witness okay. How that changes I don't have that you know as to what if anybody's gonna be charged and or who's gonna be charged. When that point comes we're not ah, I will treat you with due respect. Ah, and let you know in advance as to what is the next step's gonna be. I just don't know what that is 'cause I'm not finished. Okay I didn't.. Okay. And you haven't said you know witness I just want to make sure it's... I don't.. as I said, you know 'cause I wanted to come to you guys and tell you um, I did the same thing last time. Right. 98 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A (Inaudible) ... talking. I just want to make sure that I just want to make sure that no one puts me like when people are .. when ... 'cause somebody's gonna you know .. I don't want them to try to drag anyone else into it. Whatever 'cause I know I've heard from certain things that you know all people keep your mouth shut don't say this, don't say that or whatever and I don't want it to be, oh well I heard that Ryan went there on his own and told what he knew. And then don't 2 3 4 5 6 7 want anything to come back against me like that so. 8 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 9 10 11 12 13 14 Q Well, when we talk to Henry, when we talk to Aaron, when we talk to these people we're not gonna say you know Ryan came in here and told us you did this. That's not the way work. So, don't worry about that. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Right. We give 'em the same opportunity you get. So, if you swear by this statement that this is being the truth. Then I take that statement then I go talk to everybody else. Okay and then we put the pieces together. We're not gonna change it. I can remember some people don't remember everything. But for the most part they know exactly what ... just like here. You've done some explicit details. Which are excellent that will help us for Robert's sake do determine what 15 16 17 18 19 20 exactly happened. 21 If those people choose to do the exact same thing that 22 everybody will have a better picture that's exactly what occurrence and we can make a judgment um, as to what how that applies to what the next step is going to be. It's not an easy process by any means. Those that say oh I'm not gonna say anything or I'm not.. well guess what? Then I don't have anything in that 23 24 25 99 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 2 3 section for them. Alii have is all this other stuff and that's not up for me totally to decide is how that is. But if I have everybody saying what their part is one guy saying, I had no part into it and while they're in the middle of it. They're right here in the middle then everybody gets credit for telling me theirs and the person that has nothing, then I make that, we let that. that.. that you know other's the information that goes forward for people to make ah judgment on that, A Okay. Okay. I think that's the fairest way to do it. 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q Have him sign that. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Yeah. You just go ahead and put your ah, sign your name then print it down here. This is your drawing. We're just gonna hold that as, as a reference. (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q And we're not gonna show that to these other people either. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q No. 19 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) 20 Q 21 22 23 24 So, (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q We don't need to. And then just put today's date please. (signing) And today's ... Today's the 6 th . A Q 25 100 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 2 3 4 5 Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative) Okay. Okay. And .,. Go ahead you have a question? Um, yeah just.. instead of you know just to make sure that everything goes well. Like would you recommend that I talk to a lawyer or anything? Or ... A Q A Q 6 7 A 8 9 10 (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 11 12 13 14 15 We .. we can't give you that kind of advise. Um, talk to your parents and ... I'm ... I'm just.. I mean .. (Inaudible) ... I just ... A Q A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q 16 17 Yeah we can't give you advise on as to your.. you came in here on your own free will. You were free to leave at anytime. The reason .. and we appreciate you wanting to give us a statement. So, we're treating that as a witness. Until that changes I don't have any .. reason to, to do anything more then to treat that as, 18 19 20 as the facts that you [presented to us. Um, you .. did we already have him swear 21 22 to this? (CORPORAL MCMULLEN) Q 23 24 25 (No verbal response.) 101 Ryan Dean/Case #11-101834/GB 1 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 2 3 4 5 6 Q Um, raise your right hand. Did you swear this statement that you just given is the truth and nothing but the truth? A Yes sir. And if necessary would you swear to exact.. ah, restate the exact same information if asked to do so? Q 7 A Yes sir. Okay. Ah, we'll go ahead and end it, it's about 5 .. : 3:41. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q 102 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this D 0/A, / 3 day ~o:::f;:::6~~""':::'~-=:::::---' 2012 4 5 Detecti SO DEPUTY SHERIFF 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 Ryan Dean/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1002.225 (student records) Redacted per FS 1002.221 ~: 42 Unit: HO 19 ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE 4 Date: 03-15-2012 Time Received: 1130 o Receipt Only ~=~:"ipt Property Form 1\11)1'\(1 ( \ It (,Din Type or Case: Death Investigation Race: 383-7514 9-18-1990 M w Dean on II, Dean made a drwaing of the locations on the bus of where Latent Articles: property taken from me and that I have received a copy Address: Others: Phone: Date & Time Received: Impounding Officer Signature: Print Name: Emp ID#: District or Division: eID SupervisorlReviewer: Sgt. Gutierrez Current Assignment/Sector: Homicide Detective Assigned (if known): PhelaniChiota nlll 1 SL m E\ 111[,\( E SQl \D Data Entry Initials: Am! Verified $ F- L. vnmy -- - .;I7"5'v7 .mega ipaq IL il 954 A - .Ili' gL 1 asugd DEH vanJEI 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JERROD DEASE CONDUCTED BY VANCE VOYLES CASE 11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 This is Detective Voyles (inaudible) with Detective Phelan and investigator Cotton speaking to Jerrod Dease in reference to case number 2011-101834. Ah, it is alright, November ah, 22"d, at 9:36 hours (phone beeping ... ). And we're located at the FMU Law Enforcement Department. 7 8 9 10 11 Q. Detective Voyles 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DP. Detective Phelan A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. U. Q. A. Q. Jerrod Dease Urn, just to get some information in the beginning (over talking). (Inaudible ... ). Jerrod what's your birthday? Ah, January 10th, 1989. 10/89 and is J-A-R-R-O-D (over talking). (Inaudible ... ). And then D-E-A-S right? Yeah (talking in the background). Okay. Urn, you have a number where we can call you for later on or whatever? A. Yeah,843 ... 1 Dease, Jerrod/11-1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. A. 843 ... 601... 601... 9412. 9412, is this your cell phone? Yeah. Okay. (Background conversation ... Okay you're taking one (inaudible). And do you have another, like a permanent phone, home phone number or anything? Q. A. Q. A. Q. DP. Q. A. That's, that's pretty much it right there. That's pretty much it. Yeah. Okay. Um, do you swear and affirm that everything you tell us today is the truth, the whole truth nothing but the truth? Q. A. Q. A. (Inaudible ... ). Yeah I got, I got to say something real quick man. Alright. I, I, I mean I, I never ... you know what I'm saying I've never been in this situation ... Q. A. Q. A. Right. ...1, I don't know if, you know what I'm saying, I should have a lawyer or you know what I'm saying or Doctor. White should be here. Q. Doctor White will be coming in, in a little bit um, if you want to sit in with him and have him talk with you and, and talk with us, that's fine. We have no problem with that. 2 Dease, Jerrod/11-101834/12-02-11/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Alright. Um, we're, we're not here to get anybody in trouble, we're here to try to find out what happen to Robert. Q. A. Yeah, I mean (inaudible) ... (Coughing ... ). . .. cool, I mean, you know what I'm saying, I just, just wanted, you know what I'm saying, I, I feel more comfortable ... Q. A. Q. A. Okay. . .. if you know (inaudible over talking). Well he is going to be at ten o'clock. So you're willing to hang out for a little bit? Q. A. Yeah. Okay, well then we'll wait till Doctor White gets here and then we can all sit down and talk then. Q. A. Alright. Okay. Ah, what section are you? Oh, I'm a drum major. A drum ... yeah you're (inaudible over talking). (Inaudible over talking ... ). But (inaudible over talking). Saxophone. Q. DP. A. DP. A. DP. A. DP. You know what I'm saying. A. Yeah. End of interview. 3 Dease, Jerrod/11-1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 2 3 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this 4 5 15J.{" day of ~ r t- L, ,2012. 7 8 9 DETEd'T DavePhelan, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 Dease, Jerrod/11?1 01834/12-02-11/05 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OFMARCUS FABRE DETECTIVE ANGELO CHIOTA CASE NUMBER 11-101834 RECORDED NOVEMBER 28, 2011 TYPED DECEMBER 5, 2011 2 3 4 5 6 7 Okay today is ah, November 28th oo 29th , 2011, it's approximately 1637 hours and we're having an interview at urn, Marcus, spell your last name for me. 8 9 Fabre, F-A-B-R-E. R-E, Fabre. At his hose and .. That's F-A-B-R-E, and it's (Inaudible) ... F-A-B-R. .. E. Fabre. F-A-B-R-E. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) That's what I got A. I'm sorry. That's alright. And urn, this is your apartment here? Yes sir. Okay. And Detective Phelan and urn, Detective Chiota here are conducting an interview reference urn, Robert Champion's death. Do you think we could shut that off for.. Yes. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) 1 Marcus Fabre/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 2 3 4 Q ... second. Thank you. It's a dishwasher noise in the background. Great. Great. Okay you understand that we're recording this conversation? A Q Yes I do. Okay and you don't have a problem with that? No sir. Okay. Um, what is your ah, A Q 5 6 7 A Q But you're accepted as being. It's like an acceptance type of thing. 8 9 A (Detective Voyles) Q A Q A Q And is it just particular to this bus? Yes sir. Okay, which bus is this? I mean, what's so special about this bus? Who's on it? This the percussion bus. Okay. The reason I ask, the little I know about bands, 'cause I wasn't in one. The only thing I know is from Drumline. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Um hum. The drums, the percussions seem to be the biggest part of the band. Yes sir. So that's where you need to get respect from. Yes sir. Become the leader of that (inaudible) ... is that the reason you went through it? Yes sir. And the reason you think that the girl went through the percussion? Think so. Because you don't, I don't, I don't see a lot of girls in the drum line either, so. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-101834/12-2-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yeah, I think, I think it like you do it for like acceptance, to be accepted and like the to gain the respect of your peers. It's one of those type of things. Q You're, you're a drum major, right? Yes sir. So you know everybody in the band don't you? For the most part, yeah. I'm sorry, but you would know everybody in the percussion area don't you? Yes sir. So what's the name of that girl? Keon, you're not doing, you not doing anybody a disservice. We just need to talk to her. We need to make sure she's okay too. A Q A Q A Q A Q Lissette. Lissette? Um hum. Okay. You know her last name? No sir. Okay. But Dr. White will know it if I say Lissette? Yes sir. Okay. Did uh, did you watch Lissette go through? No sir. So it's pretty much you standing in line. Yes sir. Goes in and comes back on out. She came back out. When she came back out what did she look like? She's like, you ... (inaudible)(overtalking). A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q 11 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-1 01834/12-2-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I didn't see, I didn't see her when she come out. You go to the back and you wait. Everybody waits until everybody's done. While you wait, and then when you get the back you wait until everybody's done. Q She, so she went before you and you got to the back, how was she doing? I, I don't know. I was ... (overtalking). You were pretty much worried about you. Yeah, I was woozy. I was kinda dizzy. Soon as I got to the back, I sat in the seat and I was just sitting there the whole time, just looking. A Q A Q Okay. You do any of um, martial arts or fighting or anything like that? Um, no just work out from time to time. You ever, you ever boxed? No sir. Alright. So you never been in a fight, fight. I mean fights at high school, but not like. Now who is it that you're talking about. Is that because you got hit in the head a bunch of times? A Q A Q A Q A It was just. Just from like everything. It wasn't really so much like just from being hit in the head. It was so much because it was so many people. Q Right. And there was just so much going on at one time it just made me weak like. It was like going to ... (overtalking). A Q Like kinda like, kinda like a adrenalin dump and everything and there's, you got through it, you're done. A Q Um hum, and it was like just trying to like regain myself. Were you scared before you got in there? 12 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-101834/12-2-11I1c 1 A No, not really. I wasn't really scared. I was just more so ready to just get it over with. 2 3 4 (Detective Phelan) Q Okay, a couple more quick questions. Uh, there was mentioned that uh, Robert dropped his mace during the, the activity. Do you know anything? 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A Q No, 'cause I stand on the complete opposite side of the field. Who is Dr. James? Dr. James is the percussion instructor. Okay, was he there? No sir. When did you talk with him? Did you talk to him? I didn't, I didn't talk to James at all. What was the other guy's name? (Inaudible) Mr. Holloway? No, he wasn't there. I didn't see him leaving. A Q A Q A Q A 15 16 17 18 (Detective Voyles) Q Um, I'm, I know that when you went through it, did you have you eyes closed or were you open, you're eyes open, trying to get to the back? A I was just trying to get to the back. My eyes were open but it was dark so I couldn't really see. 19 20 21 Q Do you know where they got all the stuff that they were using to hit you guys with? 22 23 24 25 A Q Honestly, I don't know. When I got on the bus, I just saw stuff on there already. Was it in like a bag or was it just piled up? It was just on the bus. It was. A (Detective Phelan) 13 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-101834/12-2-11I1c 1 Q I have nothing else to say. Can you think of anything else uh, that happened or that we need to know about that wasn't. .. I know that they're saying he threw up. That you, that the outside of the bus you had thrown up. 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Yes sir. I didn't, I didn't see anything that happened after the whole process because once I was done and he was finished, everything was fine. And I got off the bus and I walked to my room. Then that's when I got the call from the other guys. 8 9 Q A Q A So you don't know if he made it through and got off the bus. Well, he's ... And fell out or. He made it through. He made it through to the back and he was fine. 'Cause I remember, he, he asked me, he's like man, I need something to drink. And I had a bottle of water and I gave it to him. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 Q A Urn hum. And that was it. And I just got off the bus. (Detective Voyles) Q Did you, did he need help getting through? Yeah, he, he got help. Did you get help? I got help too. Okay, who helped you through? The drum majors. They, they pulled, they, that's their job to help us. The drum majors, so the drum, so the other drum, who are the drum majors that helped you? A It was Jerad and Ricot. A Q 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q 14 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-1 01834/12-2-11/Ic 1 (Detective Phelan) Q 2 3 Were they trying to help you on get on through it.? Yes sir. A 4 5 6 7 (Detective Voyles) Q And they've, they've already gone through it themselves. Yes sir. Is, is, that, they pushed him through, they pull him through, how they do that? Both, just trying to help you get... A Q 8 9 A (Detective Phelan) Q 10 11 Any kind of way they can. Any kind of way they can help you. That's their job, is to help us. A 12 13 14 (Detective Voyles) Q A Are they getting hit at the same time? I believe they were getting hit, 'cause they were trying to help us. They was literally trying to pull us through to the back. I mean, I mean is this is like 15 people like jumping on one person and you trying to pull somebody, you might catch a few trying to help him, but. 15 16 17 18 19 Q Did you talk to Robert before this went off? You said it was against what he believed. Did you guys have a conversation about the fact that what you were doing? 20 21 22 A Yeah, we was talking about it. He really, he really didn't want to do it, but he was kinda like, I'm just gonna do it. You know, I told him, I said, if you don't want to do it, don't do it, like, you know. It's like, man, you don't got to do it. You don't have to do it. 23 24 25 Q Why did you do it? 15 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-101834/12-2-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Honestly, I did it for the same reasons everybody else do it. Get the respect and really, just really just get the respect of people, just acceptance. Q Before this game happened and you guys were at practice here. Um hum. And, and, and Dr. White came out and then I think that the chief came out and talked to you guys. Did you remember hearing them say stuff about rituals and stuff like that. A Q A Q WelL .. Did you, not to do it and all that? I was walking around. I went to the bathroom. Right. And then I was walking around doing other stuff. Like picking up stuff, like. But you, but it, but it was kind of a, you know, it's almost like a, kind of like when our bosses come up and tell us not to do something we do all the time. A Q A Q A Q Um hum. And it's be like okay, okay well. Um hum. But, that, that kind of conversation happen in the beginning? Saying don't do it? I was, I walked over from time to time. I heard him say a few things, but I just kept walking because I really wasn't (inaudible). A Q A Q Were people nervous before this happened? Like at the, at the, like they were, okay, we gotta do this. We got to get it done so that, you know, we got, we got to take care of our own business before Dr. White gets back here or whoever else at that. A Oh, I don't know. 16 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-101834/12-2-11/Ic 1 Q You don't know. I don't know other people (inaudible). Okay, alright. Do you swear everything you told us today was the truth? Yes sir. Keon. I appreciate your testimony. 2 3 4 5 A Q A Q 6 7 (Detective Phelan) Q Thank you for being honest and coming in. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this 21 ?}~ day of "711/)YL~ ,2012. 22 23 24 DETECTIVE Phelan, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF ~L1?6 25 17 Lanaude Keon Hollis/11-1 01834/12-2-11/Ic 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JAMES HOWARD DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-104834 2 3 4 5 6 7 Okay, today is December 12, 2011. I'm Detective David A. Phelan, Orange County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division. Currently out at the Orange County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division, interview room. Also present with me is Corporal Jason McMullen and we're here speaking with: State your first and last name for me. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q James Howard. Mr. Howard, what, let's see, what's your date of birth? 2-18-1958. And your address? 108 Southwest Orange Avenue. Branford, Florida. Okay, and you have a cell phone? Yes sir. And that's 850-322-2063? Yes. And your home phone number is 386-935-4299? Yes. Okay, uh, we're here in reference to the death of a uh, FAMU band player, uh, Robert Champion. That occurred back on the 18th. Urn hum. Urn, of November. You work with uh, name is it? Fabulous ... 1 James Howard/11-104834/12-13-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Fabulous Coach Lines. How long you been in Florida James? Uh, 3 years now. And you, you're under no obligation to give a statement here. Do you understand that? Uh, we're just trying to get all the facts that surrounded the uh, death of Mr. Champion and this would be a voluntary statement. If you wish to stop at any point, tell me and I will be more than happy to stop, okay? Q A Q A Okay. So you been there 3 years? Yes. And you also understand this is being recorded, right? Yes. Okay. Uh, did you drive the uh, drive one of the buses to Orlando for the FAMU Bethune-Cookman game? Q A Q A Q A Yes. And you arrived here on Friday night, Friday night? Yes. Friday evening. That Friday evening. Uh, what bus number did you drive. There's a sign, that, okay, go ahead with your bus number first. Q A Q A Um, my bus number was 911. 911. And, and, they uh are in order like A, B, C, 0, E, F, G. Okay, and you are in reference to that order, which would you be? Q A Q A A. So you were the A bus. You drive the big man. Q 2 James Howard/11-104834112-13-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 A Q The big man. Most of the time. Yes sir. Okay. Uh, since how long have you'all been have under contract with uh, FAMU? A Q 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A Q Uh, when I started they was just getting it, so it's got be 3 years now. Okay, 3 years. And over that period of time, have, uh, you been made aware of or know anything about any type of hazing? A No, I, I really didn't know what it was. Um, I had an incident that happened and I thought that it might have been, but I wasn't sure. Q And when was this? It was the second game that I did with FAMU. Um, I was driving coach C and uh, after we got back from the game, one of the, one of the band members. I don't know him by name, but they came and said can we have a meeting? A Q Okay. And I said well how long will it last? They said a few minutes. So I, I said okay and I got off the coach to go take my trash and come back. And when I came back they was back in a little huddle around somebody. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Okay. And I said what's going on? And I seen a girl. She didn't have no shirt on. She just had her bra on. I said oh, no, you'all can't be there. I ain't know what they was doing, so I said no, you can't do this in here. So I said no. You got to go. So, after all this come about, I thought about that and that might have been what that was. A (Detective McMullen) 3 James Howard/11-1 04834/12-13-11/Ic 1 Q You remember where that was? I'm not sure. Uh, it had to be, seemed like to me it was in Atlanta. (Inaudible) ... it was in Atlanta. 'Cause we only do like 2 or 3 main games for them. 2 3 4 A (Detective Phelan) Q Okay, so other than, on this, on this particular trip here, at, wait a minute, let me ask you, have you have any other incidents or been told of any other incidents by bus drivers or anything that might appear to be a hazing type of thing? 5 6 7 8 9 A No, uh, Steve Harrington told me that on, I guess it's the Orange Bird game, the game before the uh, the Bethune game that he stopped somebody from doing something hurt a girl, um, but he stopped them. So I don't know what exactly they was doing, but he told me about it He said he think that was hazing, so. 10 11 12 13 14 (Detective McMullen) Q Which game? Which games? Orange Bird. Orange Bird? Orange Bird. They went to play South Carolina State. Okay. But that's the only other incident that I heard of. So Orange Bird is in South Carolina? Um hum. A Q A 15 16 17 Q A 18 19 Q A 20 21 22 (Detective Phelan) Q Did, do you recall a in, I guess a bus got some property taken off of it in South Carolina? 23 24 A Oh yeah, that was in, in uh, was that Orange Bird? Yes, that was in Orange Bird. 25 4 James Howard/11-104834/12-13-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. And after that bus, uh, was, had property stolen from the band members was there a directive sent down from Dr. White or anything in reference to how you were to be with the buses or anything? A He said he want, he don't want any buses left unlocked when, when the leave the coaches, no busses left unlocked from that point on. And he said if, if, if it couldn't be done like that, he would get another company. That's what he tell us. Q Okay, and uh, this particular trip, you were on bus A and you know who was driving bus C? A Uh, Wendy, Wendy Millette. It's a lady. Most time we drive the same coaches all the time. It's, if, if we go on FAMU we got the same, mostly have the same drivers. Q So the majority of the time, she's, when she's driving, she's driving bus C. She's on bus C. The night that you returned, well, let me ask (inaudible) ... but the night that you returned from the game from Saturday night. Do uh, you recall returning the the uh, hotel parking lot there? A Q A Q Yes. Okay, and once you'all got there, uh, the busses stop. All the students disband, disboard, debark? A Right. Well, well, well, normally, uh, the, the, the group leaders will let them get off coach at a time. But this incident, Dr. White drove with, was in the limousine and we had a traffic jam getting back. It took us a long time to get back. So he got in the limousine and got back to the hotel 'cause he wanted to go out. Him and his wife in the limousine. But we got there and they all just started getting out. 5 James HowardI11-104834112-13-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay. So it was no order this time, so they all started getting out and headed whichever way they was going. A Q Okay, at some point I take it the bus drivers left and go to eat. To go to eat? Yeah, when, now, now I remember the times. We, we all got there about 8:25 and, and on the way from the game, my coach had a light that come on that says check engine. So I had my manager riding with me and I pointed to it and he said okay, we'll check it when we get to the hotel. So we got to the hotel and it didn't say check engine. It said engine shut down. So I said okay, we, we, we have to do a thing like regenerate. So I say I got to regenerate and I sit there in the coach trying to figure out how to get it to regenerate and one of the drivers did come to me and he was telling me how to do it. And we thought we had it, so you have to let it run for 45 minutes like. So I started letting it running and I was getting the trash out. And that's when one of the other drivers, Wendy, Wendy came to me and she said uh, we, we gonna go ahead and eat. You going with us? I said no, I got to stay here and let this bus generate. So she told me that, well, I got the people cleaning up my coach. Can you shut mine off when you shut yours off, 'cause we going to eat. I said sure, just bring me something to eat. And they left and went to eat. Most of the drivers sent except one driver and that was Paul Moore. And he went directly to the room. And I stayed in the coach about 10, 15 minutes or so. And one, one of the head drum majors came looking for Travis. That's, that's my manager, 'cause he was in my coach. And he said well, where's Travis? And I got off looking for him and I did see the people in the coach behind me, which was C. And they was going in and off. A (Detective McMullen) 6 James Howard/11-104834/12-13-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q Students, band members? Band members. I said I don't see Travis. I said well, I'm the lead coach driver. I'm in, I'm in charge of this, what can I do for you? So he asked me could, could the limousine take the drum majors out somewhere that night because Dr. White and them was going in a limousine to eat. I said well, you know Dr. White them going out to eat. I said you got to either go before them or either he'll come back and get you'all after they take him to eat. A Q Um hum. And uh, he's say so that's fine. So I called Dr. White and I said would that be okay for your drum majors to go out and eat. And they come back and get you and then go back them there to give him time where ever they was going to stay. So I sit in the coach all this time and finally they okayed it and I told them it was okay. So, me and my sister got out the coach. Since I had to let it run. And went into the lobby and on my way in the lobby, you have to go through the glass doors on the side, 3 of the drum majors met me at the door. And they said thank you. You know they were shaking my hand 'cause I told them they could go in the limousine. A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 (Detective Phelan) Q And were they going out? They were going out when I was coming in. And uh ... 20 21 22 23 24 25 A (Detective McMullen) Q And at that time Wendy's bus was still running? Wendy bus was still running and my bus was still running. Okay. A Q 7 James Howard/11-1 04834/12-13-11I1c 1 A I left mine running. But they was still going in and out though, so I don't know, uh, when all of the other (inaudible) ... 1went to the lobby and I sit in there about, about 9, 9:30, 'cause Dr. White was supposed to come down to eat. They go in the limousine at 9:15 so I called Dr. White. I said the limousine still waiting on you. He said well, I'm coming. My wife should be already out there. And by this time, Travis called me from Golden Corral. He said Mr. Howard, he said, can you go out to the coach? There's something going on out there. I said, I just left them out there. He said, but can you go out there and check 'cause something is going on. So by this time, I gets up to head to the door and I met Dr. White's wife. And I said Dr., I, I, said you been to the coaches? She said yeah. I says something going on. She said yes, something going on. So she didn't tell me what. So when I got to the back door, I seen the fire truck. I seen the ambulance. I went on up there. Dr. White was already out there and they was giving him, giving the fella CPR and I asked Dr. White, what's wrong? And he said it's one of my drum majors. I think he dead. And I said uh huh. So I looked and they was still giving him CPR. And then ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 (Detective Phelan) Q 18 Do you know if that was one of the ones that you seen go out the door? I think Robert was one of the ones that said thank you. Um hum. And do you know who the other two were that was with him? I don't know their, I don't know none of the names, but. .. If I showed you a picture of them. Yeah. You seen them over the last couple of weeks 19 20 21 A Q A 22 23 Q A Q 24 25 8 James HowardI11?104834112?13?111Ic 1 A Yeah, I knew them if I see the picture of them, but one of the them was the head drum major and one of them was the light skinned drum major with a beard and then Robert. 2 3 4 5 Q I'm a show you some pictures here. And you can tell me if you can. These are probably a little older. They look a little bit young in some of these. 6 7 A Q Okay. (Inaudible) Is any of those? It was him. I don't see the other two. Okay (inaudible). 'Cause that's the head drum major. 8 9 A Q 10 11 12 A (Detective McMullen) Q Who's that? This one. (Inaudible) 13 14 A (Detective Phelan) Q 15 16 17 Just for the record, he pointed out a picture that's been identified as Jonathan Borson. You're saying that it, as far as you know, that is the head drum major. A It's the head drum (inaudible) ... 'cause they call him to the back, the Battle of the Bands they actually stand up when they graduate and I remember he stood up. 18 19 Q You see anyone there that may have been involved? One of the drum majors that was? 20 21 A Q I shook his hand. Now these are the three that went out the door? Yeah. It was definitely the first one you showed me and it was Robert. 22 23 24 A 25 9 James Howard/11-1 04834/12-13-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q Okay. And for the record, indicated Shawn Turner as being the other individual he saw leaving out of the hotel as he was entering the hotel around a little bit before 9:30. A Q A Yeah, it had, it had, had to be like 9:05. Okay 9:05, approximately 9:05? See I remember these times because I called Dr. White at. at, at, 9 o'clock and he told me he was going to come down at 9: 15 and I got up at 5 minutes later, went in the hotel so. Q A Q A Oh, you sure that uh, Wendy Millette, her bus was still running. It was still running. Left running? It was running. It was running because when we went back out there and they was giving him CPR, it was still running. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Q A Was still running. 'Cause I asked him could we shut it down, they said no. (Detective McMullen) Q Yeah, thought it was running when we got there. Yeah, it running. 18 19 A (Detective Phelan) Q A Q 20 21 22 23 24 25 Okay, did you notice if any of the lights was on? The lights on the inside was on. Urn hum. And you said that she had somebody cleaning it up? Yeah, that's what she came, when I was sitting in my coach, she, it was like 4 in a row. A, B, C, D, and the other was parked on the other side, E, F, G. And urn, her's was sounding like on this side. I was over here and her's was on this side, A 10 James Howard/11-104834/12-13-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 but another coach was on this side of me. So I, I could only see they going in and out. She came and told, came to the door and said you gonna be here? Are, are you going to eat with us? I said, no I gotta to let mine regenerate. 'Cause she know what regenerate is. And she said well we going to uh, Golden Corral and after that we gonna fuel up that coach. That was the main reason for them to go fueling that coach and uh, they went to eat and I said, well, bring me something to eat, 'cause I'm not going and I, and I stayed there. But it was running. Q 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Okay. Did um, these two gentlemen, did you see them out at the coach when you went back out? The other two drum majors that you saw leave the hotel? A Q Talking about when I was going in? Once you, uh, came out and saw that whatever was ... (overtalking). Well, when I was coming out, I believe I met some of the drum majors, but I was in a hurry to get out of there because he told me to hurry up and go see what was going on. So after I got out there, everything just was, oh, it was after that 'cause I went, when I, when I seen the fire truck I thought maybe somebody had broke in the bus or something. And I had left mine running, so I didn't know what to think. I thought maybe somebody got in it and tried to drive it. But uh, mine they shut off 'cause, 'cause, 'cause I didn't do it right. I didn't do, didn't do the generation right so it shut off anyway 'cause it said engine shutdown, so it shut off and they had been off all that time and I didn't even know it. So anyway, it was, it was, it was still running when they was there and it ran for like, I don't know, how long after that. A (Detective McMullen) 11 James Howard/11-1 04834/12-13-11I1c 1 2 Q Okay, it that, is that common to have the, I mean, when she says their cleaning the bus, is she talking about band members cleaning it? 3 A Yeah, band members usually, usually clean, clean the coach off when they get off. They either do it then or they have to do it sometime the next day before they get on and, and if you're gonna stay out there with them, then you can let them do it then. But that's, but that's ... 4 5 6 7 Q But you ... ... a common practice. And what we do, when we with FAMU band, when we go to a hotel, all our drivers have been driving almost 10 hours, so we let all the drivers go except for about 1 or 2 and just stay with the coaches until everybody get all their stuff of. They coming backwards and forward. Back and forth. 'Cause we find that from past experience when you go in the rooms, as soon as you get in your room, somebody knocking on your door, saying I left something. 8 9 A 10 11 12 13 14 (Detective Phelan) Q 15 16 17 18 19 Alright, did you notice anyone else when, as you were out, you know, you were trying to re uh, generate your bus and before you went inside, did you notice anyone else around the bus that you might know by name or? A No, 'cause it, it was kinda dark out there and the only person came to my coach was the head drum major. 20 21 22 Q A Okay. And he asked me about the limousine. And I know, 'cause my sister was sitting in the coach with me, 'cause she came over to visit and um, and I said well, I tried to work it out for you. And that's the only person I seen, 'cause I got off to look back there see if Travis was somewhere walking around, but I guess he had 23 24 25 12 James Howard/11-1 04834/12-13-11I1c 1 already gone, 'cause Wendy had already come to me and told me what to do with her coach. Q 2 3 4 Right. That's why I figured they was already gone. But no, I didn't recognize anybody at the coach. A 5 6 7 Q Have the kids ever approach you and ask you to do anything simulated or could be construed to be a membership type thing to the uh, bus? 8 9 A Well, they hadn't asked me, but they was doing something that day in that coach when I saw them and I didn't, I didn't feel comfortable about that 'cause I told them you'all can't be doing. 'Cause they was gathered around a girl. They was ... (overtalking). 10 11 12 13 14 (Detective McMullen) Q Oh, you talking about in South, or Atlanta, that one? Yeah, yeah. And I said no, no, no. But they never asked me nothing like that again. Q A 15 16 Did anybody ever ask you to leave a bus open. No. Or have you heard of them asking anybody else to leave a bus open? I, I, I, haven't heard of them, but I heard somebody say one time that they was outside on night in between the busses. The bus was parked in the close area and they told us we went out there and we found all kind of crazy stuff out there, but nobody was on it. (Laughs) And I could tell you some of the stuff but I ain't. .. 17 18 A Q 19 A 20 21 22 23 24 (Detective Phelan) Q Okay, raise your right hand for me. Do you swear and affirm that everything you told us in the statement is true? The whole truth and nothing but the truth? 25 13 James Howard/11-1 04834/12-13-11/Ic 1 A Q Yes. Alright. Thank you sir. Alright, thank you. 2 3 4 5 A 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this I.? day of $c?' ,2012. :: 22 23 24 25 D~UTYSHERlFF 14 James Howard/11-104834/12-13-1111c 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF CALEB JACKSON CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 This is Detective Voyles, I'll be speaking to uh Caleb Re'al Jackson. Uh present here is Detective Kevin Kraubetz and Investigator Kenneth Clay of the FAMU Police Department. We'll be talking about Orange County Sheriff's Office case number 2011-101834. It is uh(inaudible) 4:17 p.m. on November 28 th , 2011 and we're at the FAMU Police Department conference room. 10 11 12 13 14 15 A Un huh (Affirmative) Um as, I don't know if you, you, you understand, I don't know what your, what anybody told you before hand, we wanna talk to you about what happened in Orlando obviously. A Q Okay. On "The Bus". Um you don't have to talk to us. Okay uh you have your right to not talk to us. You're not under arrest, we're gonna be taking you home or Q Urn first of all appreciate you coming over here. Um it's, let, giving us, let, letting us give you a ride okay. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 wherever it is you want us to drop you off after you're done. Um cause we're from Q 24 Orange County, we have, you know you're here, we're in Tallahassee, we don't 25 have any jurisdiction here, we just wanna talk to you. 1 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834/yw/12/05/11 1 2 A Q Right. Okay. And we decided to come here instead of you coming to come, everybody come down we all, we come up. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 A A Q A Q Right. Okay. Are you okay to talk to us about everything that happen? Oh yeah, I'm, I'm cool. Okay. Urn well what, tell me what, what was going on with the whole thing as far as what you know about the incident that happened after the game that night? Well after the game you know, you seen my daughter, I come all the time with my daughter. I had to go back to Tallahassee. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q Q A Okay. You know so I didn't ride "The Bus" back with the uh band, I left actually after the, after we got to the hotel. Okay. So ... Urn the reason I'm ask, the only reason I'm asking you is because the reason that we're talking to you in the first place is we're not talking to you as a list of people that were on "The Bus ... Right. 2 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 actually talking to you because your name came up when we talked to other people. Right. That you were on the bus when things went down. Um so we're trying to get everybody together to see who was on the bus. Right. was going on, cause here's the thing, we don't, right now we're being told by some people that, that uh Champion was forced to do something. Right. And I don't really believe And, and, and here, here's the thing with that, in the marching Un huh (Affirmative) know things go in order, like you know what I'm saying if you're a freshman, sophomore, whatever you know what I'm saying.. My year when I crossed the you know what I'm saying marching 100 meaning I, when I did The Classic was 2010. Okay. Meaning whatever you know drum majors do I'm not really too sure on. Did you, did you, did you do the "Bus tradition? NO. Jr 3 cares Jacksonrcase if 1 2 Q A So you've never gone through? Not, not fully. What, what do you mean not fully? You know because it's not for me. You know like I have my own troubles of my own you know what I'm saying, somebody you know telling you what to do, telling you where to sit, you know I'm not with that you know what I'm saying ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Q Q A Well you, are you going, so you're going to school right now? Well I was going to Tee. Okay when did you stop going to Tee? When I left lost, when I had didn't have no more money. When was that? Uh probably, I'll say like August. Okay so uh you stopped going in, stopped in August. Yeah. How, how is it that you were even there then? Be ... How are you marching ... Because ... ... and you're not is school. Q A 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q Q A A Q A A Q 23 24 25 A Q 4 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?1 018341YW/12/05/11 Because my classes were still pending you know for January and stuff so ljust A You mean you, if you lost your money in August were you going to school? Uh uh (Negative) Okay so were you still going to Yeah. the 100, how is that, how is that possible, how does that work? Because I still have a band class at Florida A&lVl. Okay. So you, you were going to TCC. Right. I You lost your money in August. To goto TCC. To go to TTC. Right. So are you paying, how are you paying for the class here? Well had, you have to pay outta pocket. Okay so you were paying, l'm confused, man you're confusing me. When I say, when you say you lost your money in lt's a, it's a, i-t's a dual enrollment. 5 Caleb JaGks0nlCase FSEQET PF 513.23 1 2 Q A Okay. For me to even go to FAMU I have to dual enroll. Okay. I, it, financial aid doesn't cover it so you have to pay for it. Okay so you paid that. .. Cause that's ... ... in advance. I paid with my band dues. Okay what, what's the band dues? The band dues is something that you have to pay the band. Yeah but how much is it? It's I think like for us it's like $59. $59? Yeah something like that. So $59 to take the class, to take the marching band class. Yeah, weill guess. That's what you paid? Nobody, nobody never said nothing. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q Q A Q A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q Q A A Q A A Q 21 22 23 24 25 A A Q 6 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 I, what did, how (laughter). .. (Laughter) (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Is that a one time fee or or. Yeah, yeah, it's a one time fee. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) I So the beginning of, of, the beginning of the year in August you come in and pay your fee, say you're going to TCC. Yeah but I was actualiy going you Okay well where did you, when did you stop, you said you stopped going in A August. Right. School( starts in August. Right. So you Because my, my, my tinancial aid didn't come through like I thought and that's like $600 outta pocket that I did n't have. Okay. And I love the band so you know I kept, you know I kept marching. 7 Caleb JacksonICase #1 2105111 1 Q Okay. Um so the people that are saying that you were on "The Bus", they're, what, what's up with that? They said you were on "The Bus" that night when, when, when, when the girl went through and the two guys went through, they said you were on "The Bus". 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Q That's a lie. That's a lie. Yeah I did not have confirmation, that's a lie. How would you have confirmation? Because my, my home girl MJ, she was, she stated ... And what is MJ's real name? Uh damn what's MJ real, Monica. Monica what? Jackson. She stated ... Is she related to you? Nah she from Palm Beach, I'm from Palm Beach. She's, but your name is, I'm just saying your name is Jackson, her name is Jackson ... 8 9 A Q 10 11 A Q 12 13 14 15 16 A Q A 17 18 19 Q A Q 20 21 22 23 A Q Yeah, nah it's no, no relation. No relation. No relation. 24 25 A 8 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 Q Do you have a phone number for her? Yeah. She crashed in my room that Friday night so at the game I lost my urn, (inaudible). I lost my uh room key and she was waiting at "The Bus", matter of fact when we got to the hotel they were at "The Bus" waiting for me. A 3 4 5 6 7 Q On Friday day? On Friday, in Friday and Saturday night. I left with them. Okay. I also need you to understand that we have video footage of the hote/... Right. ... after everything that went down. Right. And we have foot, video footage of everybody getting in "The Bus" ... Right. ... everybody that leaving "The Bus" and then going into the hotel. Right. So we have video of you walking in the hotel. Right. After "The Bus" incident. But I wasn't on "The Bus". Okay you're walking in at the exact same time everybody else is. A Q 8 9 10 11 Q A 12 13 14 15 16 17 A Q A Q 18 19 20 21 22 A Q A Q 23 24 25 A Q 9 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 No I walked in 'bout, I walked in by myself. No, no, I know that, I'm not, I know you walked in by yourself ... Oh . ... cause we have the, I was watching the video on that screen right there, I saw you walk in by yourself but it was, this is how it works out and I'm gonna, "The Bus" is over here, whatever, you guys, everybody leave "The Bus" and then we start getting everybody coming in the, the video. So we see everybody else leaving, everybody else leaves and then in that same time frame you're leaving to go through the hotel as well at the same time everybody else is going. Not with them but staggering. So you're saying that you left right after the game and you didn't go to "The Bus" but we have you on video coming through the lobby as soon as everybody's walking off "The Bus", at the same time. I'm looking ... That's what.. . ... 1 lost my ... ... the people are saying you were on "The Bus". I lost my key. Alright. I was looking for my key, I did not have my key, my room key and you can even, if you show the video I even went up to the uh, the what the front desk to get a key cause they issued me another key. 10 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 Q Right I understand that. Right. What I'm saying is that right after the game, this happened right after the game. Right. You were still there, you weren't gone, you weren't outta town, you, it wasn't... No I wasn't, I wasn't gone out of town yet. Right. Yeah. That's when this happened, that's when people are saying you were on "The Bus" when it happened. here's the problem, I, I don't think you understand, I think that people up here it's different then down in Orlando. Everybody's making a big deal out of this and they're talking about every, it's all they're talking about alright. We're, you know we came up here on a Tuesday, I talked to people, we, we were able to talk to people that hadn't left for school yetthen we went home. A 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q Q Q A A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q We wanna make sure that Robert didn't get murdered okay. Right. A Q A Q Right. We had Thanksgiving and, and we're coming up here just to follow up on the investigation. A I got... A 11 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/0S/11 We don't think that ... But that's what I'm saying I wasn't even on "The Bus" when, when he went through. got 5 people saying they saw you on "The Bus", they, that they were actually involved in everything that was going on. Yeah but I, I .,. (Inaudible) involved ... But, but I wasn't... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Caleb/ I could only tell you, you ... Here's the thing okay. A lot of times, most of us were in the military okay. There's traditions that happen all though the thing and it's a tradition okay. I know a lot of people are scared. A lot of people that were on that bus know what happen okay. Listen to me, we're not gonna sit here and be like hey you know what we talked to Caleb and he told us this, this, this, this and this okay. But the thing is when we're dealing with this, we been doing this job a long time and there's a big difference between a homicide and an accident that happened. But the main thing is is I don't wanna see people looking to get tripped up on certain things and not be completely honest about things because they're scared about what happened thinking that well if I say I was on "The Bus" then I'm gonna be held responsible and that's not the thing. What we're looking at is the big picture okay. 12 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 Things happen, like I said it's a tradition that has gone on for God knows how may years. And, and, and I, and I understand that but when Rob goes to "The Bus" I wasn't on "The Bus". Okay but here's the thing, and, and this is where I don't want you to worry about anything else but how would you explain when people who don't have anything else to gain if they were to have a, a photo line up or a photo and say oh yeah CJ was there ... Yeah but everybody ... ... you, do you know what I'm saying? ... know that I'm in the band. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Yeah but, but on "The Bus" that night, the, the thing about, the thing about "The Bus" is that they, not only did they know you're, you're about the band, they know your voice, they know how you look ... Right. ... they know that you're there, that you were on that bus. Right. It's a. it's a "Bus C" tradition and then ... 13 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 A "Bus C" tradition, if somebody tell you about a "Bus C", C tradition they couldn't tell you very much because if, if, if, the light are off on "Bus C". there's no lights on, you could, you couldn't know who was on "Bus C". How would you know that unless you were on it? Cause I told you I started on "Bus C". So you, when you ... When, when you, when you're a percussion ... .. .during, during the other in, during the other years and all the other games and anything else you always ride on "Bus C". No when you're a freshman you don't ride "Bus C". Okay when, once you got on "Bus C" ... Right. ... you were part of any kind of other, other stuff that was going on, any other tradition you were part of? They don't put, they don't, they don't ... You can't be on "Bus C" unless you've been through "Bus C". That's a lie. That's a lie and I'll look at you in yourface and say that's a lie. On "Bus C" we don't, we don't even know who gets on "Bus C", if you a percussion your second year in the band you'll ride "Bus C". You don't, I don't have control over who is on "The Bus" ... 14 Caleb JacksonlCase #11-1 018341YW112105111 Right. ... they do. You know when they put you on "The Bus" they say ... But you're on "The Bus" . .. .okay but you can say you don't wanna be a part of "The Bus", it's different than saying oh it's a percussion bus because that's where you get your allocation, that's where you get your money from. So how do you know that it's gonna be all dark in there if you've never been through it? Because I seen somebody go through it before. (Music tone) You what? I seen somebody go through before. Okay well how did you see it and you weren't on "The Bus". Tampa I, Tampa game. Okay. I told you, let me try to explain, I don't think y'all understand about what... Okay . ... what is the marching 100. When you a freshman you can't, you, you have no say so , when you're a sophomore you have not say so. Okay. 15 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (inaudible) and whatever you know up and above they have all the say so. So meaning if I'm on ''The Bus" they say I have to follow the rules of "The Bus". Okay. Even if I don't wanna participate or, or not. What are the rules of "The Bus"? If you not on "The Bus" don't look back. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Okay here's the thing, what we talk about in here is with us. Right. Okay with this bullshit of I don't know what happens, because we all know exactly what happened. But this is the thing once again ... (Music tone) Can I turn my phone off? (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Un huh (Affirmative) (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) This is one of the things, we're not looking for anybody to be a snitch, we're not looking for this, all we're looking for is the truth okay plain and simple. And like I said what we talk about in here stays with here. I'm not gonna go out and be like 16 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 you know what CJ told us that as soon as you get on "The Bus" this happens, this happens ... But that's, that's, that's, that's easy to say ... (Music tone) That's easy, that's easy to say, that's easy for you to say, I, I, you, I watch things too, I watch First 48 (laughter) ... Okay let me tell you, this isn't TV. Okay you don't see any cameras up in here ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) And we're a week into this and we're just talking like this. We, this isn't, you don't, we're not blacking out your face, ain't nobody filming nothing, alright we're talking about, and here's the thing, we're trying our hardest to keep this away from being something where somebody intended to do something bad to him. We're looking at it from the way we grew up. We come up in the military and that, that bad H word that everybody's talking about, we don't consider that. We gotta go through some stuff to become part of, of, of a, a (inaudible), a car, part of the brotherhood. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) A tradition. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) And we understand. What I do understand about the marching 100 is that it is 125 year tradition. So things have gone on for whatever. Everything's been suspended right now. We don't know what the future holds but we need to know 17 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 so that we can you know, I don't know talk some sense into people, I don't know man, we're trying to help. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) We're looking at the fact of an accident or did somebody have something out personal for a person who ... That's not it, you can block that out. Right but you understand ... Yeah, but yeah ... ... in, in the mist of it we have to ... But, but what, what I'm saying in, in, in general, look, I love Robert like a brother, more than y'all, any, everybody in this band love this man like a brother, you know what I'm saying? (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Un huh (Affirmative) Nobody would beat anybody, we in a band together you know what I'm saying. It's something, but it's something that I can't help you know what I'm saying. Cause I'm not in a position, I'm not in the power. You, yes you are, right now you are. Here's the problem, this is, this isn't part of what you're allowed to say and what you're not allowed to say. This is he died. All that other stuff that was before, if, if he had just gotten through with some 18 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 couple of bruises nobody ever would have heard nothing about this. But he died man so ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) (Inaudible) ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... so now all these people outside who don't understand, who live in a different world are gonna come in and say well you know they did this on purpose. They didn't like him because he was gonna be, and, and, and then Dr. White comes up and says he's gonna be drum major next year, no he wasn't, I've already talked to some other people ... (Music tone) ... he wasn't at, anywhere even near in line, he can't. .. He, he was drum major... You know, no I mean but head drum major. Oh head drum major. Oh ... He couldn't do head drum major after one year in percussions. I, that's what I've heard. Now you tell me, you're saying you have to be two years in the band to even be looked at... Well once you're a drum major you never know because 3 of them just graduated. 19 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 But now, now that everybody's saying that, they're making it look like oh people didn't like him, they thought he came up too fast, blah, blah, blah, they started doing more than they needed to do. Because 3 people went through and why is he dead, why aren't they more hurt? Right. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) See where you can help with us is you have been on "The Bus" before, maybe not on this one, you've been present, what we need to know is what happens on ''The Bus". is it the fact of it's just hey a person gets blind folded, they walk through, you know you hit them, much love and it's done. Or is it the fact that hey um it's a selective thing like this persons gonna get much more than someone else, these are ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Or dest the person has to go. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ... the things that we're looking at. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... compared to this person wants to go. Whether it's a choice, whether it's not a choice. Well you don't have to do it if you don't want to at all, you don't. you absolutely don't. Even if you do it you can say you don't want to no more, they ask you, they always ask you do you wanna stop, you can say I wanna stop and they would 20 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 stop. You know say, if you don't wanna say nothing that mean you wanted to do it. You know what I'm saying, you just wanted to go through. So ... So if he's half way down "The Bus" he can say, he can holler out stop. He can holler out stop cause that, it, it's happened. Is it possible for, I mean with the, with the, with the amount of people in there ... Uh uh (Negative) ... to hear. .. Uh uh (Negative) because believe it or not people are helping you try ... We believe that. Yeah. We believe that. People are trying to help you get there you know what I'm saying, to get there to the back so you could just hurry up and get it over with. So it's not a case of oh they beating you and you wanna stop. Who was helping him through? You can't see with the lights off. Okay. You can't see and "m being dead honest, you can't see with the lights off. How is the whole thing set up? How do you guys even get on "The Bus"? It's suppose to be locked up you got, you got stuff stolen from you guys like a year 21 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 A 5 6 7 8 9 Q Q ago or a couple months ago or something like that didn't you? Or not that bus in particular but a bus got broken into and stolen. How do you guys get on "The Bus"? Now see that's, I don't know. I just, this is my first year on "The Bus" so I don't even know all the rules And have you gone through? Have I gone through. Have you gone through the tradition? Have you gone from the front of "The Bus" to the back of "The Bus"? A 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 A 25 Q Q A Q (No audible response) (Stuttering), you're silent. .. I don't, I don't feeL .. ... you silent. A Q (Laughter) (DETECTIVE VOYLES) A Q I don't, I don't feel ... CJ ... ... comfortable, I don't feel comfortable like that man. But it, look ... 22 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Like you know what I'm saying, I got my own, I, like I told you sir I got my own troubles man. I know, I, but we're, look this is ... It's easy for you to say that man then ... I know it is, I know, I know . ... and then, you know what I'm saying, then, then I see on the news, oh look him, you know what I'm saying. And if I, you know what I'm saying ... Look, you know, you know what here's the funny thing about it. In our, in our, at our sheriff's office if they do the, if the do the briefing from our sheriff's office, like his actual, my sheriff's office, not just the, the building but his office, he's got a big paddle on the (inaudible), he was a Q. He got a big paddle, he went, he knows what this is all about. We've been in the military, we know what it's all about, we don't talk about what doesn't need to be talked about. The problem is when we went through nobody got killed. But... And it's sad, and I say got killed as in opposed to accidentally died. Nobody meant to do nothing. But how do you, how do you, let me ask you a question. How do you label something even remotely to a homicide if some, see I, I wasn't there when he got off "The Bus", you know I wasn't even, half way through you know what I'm saying, I, yeah I'll tell you half way through I left cause it was kinda boring. I just... 23 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Half way, halfway through the other people? Well Lissette, that's the only person I wanted to see. Okay. That's the only person I wanted to see. How, how was it her, her going through comparedto any other ones you ever seen? Regular. Was it, how was it compared to you? Regular. Regular, okay I never, I never remotely felt like my life was in danger, not at all. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) See where you're concerned about, for us a lot of times when we conduct an investigation it's to help either prove or disprove something did or did (Music tone) Because this That's my wife. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) I like that, I like how (inaudible). 24 Caleb JacksonICase #1 1 2 Uh. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ... is now national headlines ... Right. .. .it's much more important for us to be able to say ... (Music tone) ... because a lot of people are pOinting fingers saying this was a deliberate act. Right. When a lot of us who have been through and know about traditions need to be able to answer questions ... Right. ... and that's why when we're asking people, when you, and going through, like he said we know hot it is, each person has a seat on "The Bus". Whether it's a blanket party, whether it's a person covering, they go through, it's strikes here, knee strikes, anything goes, whatever it may be these are things that... Right. ... in, in going through ... See but when I, when I told you earlier about how the, how the band coexist meaning for me now you know what I'm saying, I only know so much about you know how the procedures, how, how, how something, something is done. You 25 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?101834NW/12/05/11 know because even, even when in my sophomore year they don't say oh do you wanna ride "Bus C", they just say, you look at the bus list and your name is on "Bus C" so you know you going to get on "The Bus". So that's when you said you have no choice. Right. So when you're in if I have a senior saying or like you said you look, you're on "Bus C", you know you're on "Bus C". I'm on "Bus C". Now but in that what does it entail to be on "Bus C"? what are ... You don't. .. ... the traditions ... ... that... tradition uh don't go to, okay ... I mean when they say look ... . . .tradition ... ... we, we know how it is, urn but what we're looking at is we just need somebody to say look when a person gets on "The Bus" their job is to walk to gauntlet so to speak. I'm not, the on, the only thing to ... You go from the front to the back . . .. the, the only thing they ever told us was not to go to sleep. 26 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Not to go to sleep? Yeah. When you get on "The Bus"'? Yeah watch a movie and just stay up. guess, I guess that was a part of it. Here's, here's, here's my, here's my question, this is one ofthe, one of the things that we talked to other people about is that what's, what's the, what's the start, however many people wanna go, 'say 2 people, 3 people, 5 people wanna go through. Everybody's, everybody's, this is "The Bus" right here and I'm gonna pretend that my folder is "The Bus". You don't, you don't pick who goes through, they, they pick you. Right no, no, I, I, what I'm saying is that 3 people go through. Okay. And everybody else is on "The Bus". Okay. This is "The Bus" right here and you gotta walk this through the line. Right. 27 Caleb JaCkS0nICase 2l05l11 tgw; 1 2 3 Q Okay. So the first person gets on, they walk, they, they go through it with help or whoever. A Right. And they sit, but then when they get through to touch back and stop everything stops, they just hang out in the back. The next guy gets on and goes, does it... Right. ... everybody stays there, gets to the back. The last guy or whatever gets on, does it and every, and then, then everybody after that last person then everybody 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 gets off "The Bus". Q A Q 11 12 13 Q A Right. Is that how that works? (No audible response) Okay. 14 15 16 17 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Okay so you saw what was going on as he's coming down? I seen him go through. A Q And then what you were saying you were on "The Bus" half way through, Champion was going down? Right. A Q 28 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Where were you sitting at? All the way in the front. Okay so you are in the front. .. Here, here's, here's how it works. You know what I'm saying if you just did "Bus e" you always have to sit in the front. beginning, middle and the end. Oh okay. I guess, you know what I'm saying. Okay. It goes in seasons, they call it the, the And it goes you know what I'm saying your classification. Right. So you're a senior you, you know you're all the way in the back. Okay. You know what I'm saying you just did it, you know you, your seat a be in the front. Okay. So my seat is in the front. When he goes back, you know what I'm saying, that's a whole different area. Okay. 29 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 You know what saying, that's a whole different Alright so, so you,you were bus. the beginning when he was okay. Right. You never saw him Not. passed out or Right. mat. Uh uh (Negative), never. So you were, you were in the front with Lissette, you were in the front with the, the second guy, who's the second guy? Lissette was gone. She was, what do you mean? She, she She went through but Yeah. sh.e's in the back of The Bus"'? 30 Caieb Jack$0nlCaSe 3? 1 A Q Yeah right. She's not, when you say gone she's not off "The Bus" she's ... Nah, yeah she, she ... ... at the back of "The Bus". And then the next guy goes, you're still there and then Champion goes, you're still there and as soon as he passes you you do what you gotta do and then soon as it, that's over you leave? 2 3 4 A Q 5 6 7 8 9 A Q I had, yeah I had to go. Okay, alright. (Laughter) So it was over when you left? (No audible response) He, he, he wasn't off "The Bus" but it was over, there was no more, he, he made it to the back and then you left, everybody, you left with everybody else? 10 11 A Q A 12 13 14 15 Q 16 17 18 19 A Q Well I left ... And you, and you were by ... I, I left when he was getting closer. .. Okay. ... closer. Like he was, this man was strong, when I say ... He's a big guy. 20 21 A Q 22 23 A 24 25 Q 31 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 A ... when I say this dude was strong, he was a strong dude. And I, he pushed his way through you know what I'm saying. 3 Q 4 He didn't have any help? Yeah everybody would need help. Okay. You know what I'm saying. Not, not help like, not, well not everybody, if you stronger than others you know what I'm saying you might need help. 5 6 7 8 9 A Q A 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q A Q A Q How, how bad is it, is it just a slap, is it punching, is it kicking, what's going on? It's not even that. What happened to you? What happen to me? Yeah. At the time, not even this incident. .. People just try to hold you back from getting there. It's just exhaustion. Are they, so they, are they, what, but I mean why are they holding you back so, so he's going through, I'm holding him back right here and ... Right. ... people that are on the bus, so part of my job is ... Is to hold him back. ... is to hold him back and somebody is gonna hit him while I'm holding him back? 16 17 18 A Q 19 20 21 22 A Q A 23 24 25 Q 32 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 A You might not even get hit. That, they main job is to do, is to hold you from getting to the back. Like a lineman. Q Right. You know what I'm saying, you pushing against him, he trying to push against you, you just pushing, it's just exhausting, you know what I'm saying you jUSt. .. I: 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 A Q But I mean there's ... Right. ... people are gonna get hit and stuff, I mean we got... See ... ... we got, we got buckle marks and stuff like that. See but, see I don't know about that though, you know what I'm saying, my, I'm in the front (laughter). A Q A Q A (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q Q But say in the beginning, is it the beginning's job to hold and then the middle's job may be something a little more ... A It's all ... ... serious. ... it's all, nah it's all about holding, trying to hold them to the back basically. Okay so maybe somebody from the back, which is going to be your upper rank people ... r 23 24 A Q 25 33 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 A Q Right. ... are probably gonna do more of the ... 2 3 4 A Oh nah it, it a be all the same cause even one, you know what I'm saying, when I, you know what I'm saying, you, shoot when I went... 5 6 7 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Q You, you, you know what's funny CJ is that one of the things that they mentioned, one of the, one of the guys that, that came in and talked to us had mentioned was that things were different with Robert because he was a drum major. And these, these are the exactly words they used to, to, when they were talking to me. And drum, drum majors in the band are like ... 8 9 10 11 12 A Q But who did ... ... are like the police. 13 14 15 A Q Right. And if you get a, if you get a shot to hit the police you golla take it. It's different, it's, who did you talk to? Did you talk to a neo, did you talk to somebody that... 16 17 A 18 Q 19 What's a neo? Somebody that just came into the band 2010. Or did you talk to somebody that was in the band 4 or 5 years already? A 20 21 Q They were, they, they've been in the band for a while. So they, he would know. He would know. So nobody was excited about hilting Dontae or not Dontae, uh ... Oh Lord. ... Robert. 22 23 24 A Q A Q 25 34 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 A Well ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q And once again it, we're not looking to jam anybody up, it's just an explanation ... A Q Right. .. , so we can sit there and look at it. because once again if I just have you know we're all percussion and it's one thing, but now you get the upper guy and this is the one chance you got to be like yo' he fucking made me do some push ups, this ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q (Inaudible) ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q ... that and the other. That's ... But here, here ... ... I'm a get my one lick on him ... ... here, here's the thing ... ... cause I can. .. , here, here's the thing, here's the thing, I didn't even know that drum majors do "Bus C". 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A 35 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Okay. I thought it was a percussion bus, that's what I was told. You thought the only people that did, they were precussions too. In percussion. So I didn't even know, you know what I'm saying, that the drum major, cause this is my first time on "The Bus". Okay. You know what I'm saying so I don't know all the rules you know. So were you surprised to see the drum majors going through? (No audible response) See them get on to go do it? Right. Because you know what I'm saying you hear talk, you hear talk during the year oh "Bus C, Bus C", but you never know what to expect, you know what I'm saying, that's just walking into somewhere blind. You, you might hear rumors but you never know. How many, how many uh appear, how many um performances did you guys have this year? Away? Yeah. Probably about 4. 36 Caleb JacksonlCase #11-101834NWI12105111 And out of those 4 were you on "Bus C" every time? Yeah until I had the flu. Until you had the flu. Yeah. Okay so you did "Bus C" last year though? No this year, this year. So firsr thing ... Right. .. ... no, no I'm just saying you went through. 2011. Is the first ttime you went through? Yeah,2011. How did it get explained to you that you, that, I mean you're a percussion right? Right. And you thought "Bus C" was only a percussion thing. Right. How did you get told about it or how did you get, I mean how did that whole thing come about? As far as you saying hey man you're a percussion you 37 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 need to, you need to, you need to man up, you need to get through "The Bus"_ lf you're gonna be, if you're gonna be a percussion you gotta do this. How did they. Well heard about it in high school. You heard about it in high school? Yeah. Where did you goto high school (laughter)? Palm Beach Lakes. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) (Laughter) (DETECTEVE VOYLES) Palm Beach Lakes? Yeah. Palm Beach County? Palm Beach County. So you heard about "Bus in Palm Beach before you even got here. ls this something you wanted to do, you always wanted to be in the marching 100? (No audible response) mean you, did you play, you played 38 Caleb JaCks0nICase -M 5, fa, I wanted to go to Cookman. You wanted to go to Cookman. My dad was a marching man at Cookman 1975 but he made me mad my senior year. (Laughter) So ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) So this is a way to get back at him because ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) So you stuck it to him? (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ... with a rival school. Stuck it to him. (Laughter) that's good shit. I'm dead serious, I, I'm being real (DETECTIVE VOYLES) No, no, no my, my, my dad did the same thing. I'm being real. My, my, my grandfather hated ... 39 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q Q (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) That's good shit right there. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) My grandfather hated ... I'm being real, I'm just being real, I, I wanted to go to Cookman. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q A Dude did your dad snap when he knew you were going to A&M? No he told me I was living his dream cause he was from Tallahassee. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) A 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Q Q Q Oh well that's good. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Oh. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) He turned it around. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 21 22 23 24 25 Q (Laughter) Yeah he turned it around. A 40 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) So you knew about it since, since high school? Right. So when you got here how did they, how did they say okay you or did you just know at the end of the first game I gotta go up there and do it? Nah freshman year you, you cool. They,you on your own bus, you know what I'm saying ... Oh okay . ... it's, you can say, you can say I wanna be on "Bus C". I thought all percussions was on "Bus C". Yeah, yeah but you can say, you can go to them and say oh I don't wanna be on it. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) What happens if you say ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) (Inaudible) ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ... you don't wanna be on it? 41 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 A Exactly. Whose gon' do, a lot of people done it, a lot of people. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Q Say I don't wanna be, cause ... Yeah. ... to be on "Bus C" you gotta be, you gotta go through "Bus C". Right. That's what I said earlier you said no. No. (Laughter) A Q 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 Q A Q A Come on man. No you don't, you actually don't, you actually don't. What happen, I, I think they changed it, you acutally don't have to go ... 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Right. ... but you have to follow the rules. But if you're gonna sit on "Bus C" ... You have to follow the rules. You have to follow ... You can't go to sleep. A Q A Q A 42 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Okay so you can't just sit by while, if, if you're on "Bus C" and they're gonna, and they're gonna do a "Bus C" ... They not gon' mess with you. But you got, you still gotta ... You go ... ... you still gotta participate ... No . ... doing what you gotta do. You, you go, you go 'bout your business. They won't mess with you I promise you, they won't mess with you at aIL (Inaudible) ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) NowbuL (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... there's no respect that, this, this is what I've been told that "Bus C" is a respect. Right it's a ... You get, you get respect from the rest of, if you go through "Bus C" you get respect from everybody in the band. It's not for everybody. 43 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) But in the same respect ... It's, it's, it's not, it's not... ... if you don't follow the rules ... ... it's not, it's not... ... on "Bus C" ... ... it's not, it's, it's not for everybody in a, not in a fear factor but it, it's not for everybody because you know who, who wants you know what I'm saying for somebody to hold you back and you can't do nothing about it you know what I'm saying. Who, who wants that? (DETECTIVE VOYLES) But to be a part of a tradition you wanna be part of a tradition. But everybody doesn't wanna be a part of the tradition. But if you're on "Bus C" you're part of that tradition. Not really. Not really (laughter). You have to want to. Right. You have to want to. 44 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 But to get on "Bus", did you have, did you go, before you got on "Bus C", before you were sitting on "Bus C" ... Right. ... did you go through "Bus C"? No. The tradition. Before I got on it? Before you go to "The Bus" ... Uh uh (Negative) ... did you go. So the first time you got on "The Bus" did you go? Uh uh (Negative) How long did it take you? (No audible response) I can't imagine you, you, you let them talk shit to you the entire time, I can't believe you sitting on this bus, you ain't "Bus C". (Inaudible) ... Cause that's what, that's what, that's what happens. Uh about 4 games, yeah. Four games. 45 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Four games. Four games and then you went throught? Yeah. So it... They don't mess, they don't mess with you ... It happens every single time? Every game, after ever game ... Uh uh (Negative) ... "Bus C" happens. Uh uh (Negative). May, may not. Cause that's what, that's what I heard Robert wanted to do it. It, but it... He want, he wanted to do it. ... but it, it may not, it depends you know what I'm saying, if, it depends if they wanna do it. It... How does, how does it come down, how does it, how, when you did it, not this time but when you did it how did you arrange to have it done? You just said I'm gonna do "Bus C" today? Nah they do it. They tell me uh I guess it's your turn, stay on "The Bus". 46 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q 2 3 And then that's when you're like yea or nay. Yea or nay, you could always say yea or nay. But if you, but if you stay on "Rhe Bus" that long you not gon' say nay, you know what I'm saying. You wanted to be on that bus. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) 4 5 6 7 A 8 Q 9 So to be on that bus eventually you're gonna have to go through "Bus C". you're gonna have to go through the tradition. 10 11 12 A Q Right. Otherwise they're gonna ... Because they ask you, they ask you, they ask you when they do "The Bus" list. Whoever don't what "The Bus" you know what I'm saying but who wants to you know, whoever don't wanna be on "The Bus" tell me and I'll arrange for you to be on another bus. So if you don't arrange for you to be on another bus obviously that's what you wanted to do. 13 14 A 15 16 17 18 19 Q Okay. The, the faculity that's on The Bus". Right. How does the whole, did you guys talk about "Bus C", is, it, is it... 20 21 A Q 22 23 24 A Q No. ... the whole, how does it. .. 25 47 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 No . . ,. you don't know nothing about it? No. Not, not... But you've known about it since high school. See but that's, that's because my, people from my high school was in the percussions. Okay. So you know what I'm saying, they, they come home with stories, oh you know what I'm saying and we just be like. And that's like kinda, it's like okay. It's, you know what I'm saying, it's all rumors until you get here. It's all rumors until you get here. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Are you allowed to, let's say you're a senior in high school and you're gonna come up here. No. You can't kinda sit in and be like ... No, uh uh (Negative). You can't even do it as a freshman. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) So you can't even go through "Bus C" as a freshman? Uh uh (Negative) 48 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Why? (No audible response) ls it a rule book somewhere? I just, I don't, when I was a freshman they don't, they didn't put me on "Bus I see I don't make "The Bus" list so I wouIdn't know you know what l'm saying. Do they don't talk to you at all, it's kinda like you're_ Uh uh (Negative) you don't, they don't know nothing about nothing. Right like I'm a just a green sheet, an award you know what I'm saying. They won't talk to you like that on that level. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) And then who, who does "The Bus" list, is it the section leader? Uh uh (Negative) I, I don't know, I, Like percussion leader, I would, I would _"somebody, I would imagine somebody you know that, I guess the secretaries 49 Caleb JacksonlCase #11-101834lYWl12I05l11 1 2 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Q Well how do you, how do you, how do you end up, if you're; if they don't talk to you as a freshman, what are you, what are you, you a junior right now? 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 A Q So, sophomore. You're a sophomore. In the band. So they, they didn't even talk to you last year at all? Well yeah on the practice field yeah. But... Okay on the practice field but how, how is it that your name ended up on the list if you never told nobody you wanted to do it or not? A Q A 11 12 13 14 15 Q A Q Cause it's my second year in the band. So second year in the band ... It automatically, automatically ... ... you're, you're automatically in "Bus C". As a percussionist. As a percussionist. Yes, automatically. So that's when you gotta put up or shut up? Right. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A Q A Q A 23 24 25 Q A 50 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?1018341YW/12/05/11 And what happens if you shut up? You just shut up. You stay on, you stay on "The Bus"? Nah you just, if you say you don't want to you don't have to ride. You don't, you don't. .. Where do you ride then? On, out of 10 buses you could pick a spot. You just get to pick a spot. You could pick any bus you want to. So by going through you get to be a little bit cooler than everybody else? Nah you just get to have a seat by yourself. What do you mean? It's not that many people on "Bus C". It's not like 50 people that ride "The Bus". It'll probably be like 30 so you know what I'm saying, if you on "The Bus" you gon' have a seat by yourself, you incline to ... Now, okay and that, that, that, that's a little confusing to me now because if you're saying that the faculity doesn't know and there's like 4 faculity membere on your bus and their bus happens to be less empty than every other bus, there's got to be somebody that knows why ... 51 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) (Laughter) (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... only 30 seats are full instead of 50. I mean I'd be, I'd be, I'd be ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Especially in these ecomonic times ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... I'd be, I'd be jumping to get on "Bus C" if I had to ride 4 hours somewhere. I'm not, I'm not saying that "The Bus" is skimp but like it's not a lot of, you, people graduate you know what I'm saying so if they graduate of course they not gon' ride "The Bus". They're not gonna ride you know what I'm saying if you, if you graduate you got, people graduate every, every year from percussions. So you nev, you never know who's on ''The Bus". (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) But if everyone on "Bus C" is suppose to be percussion ... Right. ... and then you got other people in percussions that are on let's say Bus B, people like why aren't you on "Bus C". I'm like I don't know. They don't wanna tell them ... You know what I'm saying. 52 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 A Q ." they don't wanna tell them that, they were scared and they ain't wanna ride. (Laughter) (DETECTIVE VOYLES) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q So you go on "Bus C" you won't get, I mean ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q At some point. .. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q You, you gotta do it at some point. Uh uh (Negative). If you on "Bus", you don't have to. Okay. You know what I'm saying, if... But then you, you don't have to but you can also go sit on Bus B. Right. If you're not gonna do it. .. But, but. .. ... you need to get going. See but if you want your money you gon' sit on "Bus C". Money, what do you mean? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q 53 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Allocation. You don't get paid to sit on another bus? Huh? If, if your bus, if your, your name on that bus list ... Un huh (Affirmative) ... you gon' get, you know what I'm saying, you gon' sit on that bus. Yeah you, okay but I, I, I saw a bus list earlier ... Right. ... it's, it's, another detective has it. Right. And it had like your (inaudible), you hotel room, your food and all that kind of stuff, is that the money you're talking about? Yeah right. Okay ... So ... ... if you're on another bus you don't get paid? You can't, you can't get that money because that's not your bus. like they go a list of who on "The Bus", you know like a, you know to check in your name. Right, right. 54 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?101834NW/12/05/11 : ~:.l1.22 You know what I'm saying, they look down the list, that's not your bus so what are you doing on this bus, you know what I'm saying. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Was there extra monies because you're part of "Bus more ... Uh uh (Negative), no, uh uh (Negative) ... .. . extra than ... ... never . ... Bus A or B. No. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) But, so "Bus B" has their own money too, you just gotta, you have to go on your bus to get your money? Right. You have to go on your specific bus ... Your specific bus ... ... to get your money . ... to get your money. Okay you, you, you, you confused me, you scared me a little bit, I was like damn you get, you ... 55 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?1 018341YW/12/05/11 That's like ... e" that you get a little You, you, you know (inaudible) ... ... get paid to go on "The Bus". No. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) (Laughter) No, yeah. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) I'm like damn. You get your allocation, you get your money to, you know what I'm saying and then you ride "The Bus". Okay. So you went through, you went, you were on "The Bus" when all 3 of them went through. You left after Robert because he was done, that was the last person that went right, that's what you're saying? You went through with Lissette, she was first and then Robert was last and the other guy was in the middle right? Right. Okay so of the 3 gauntlets, do you know what a gauntlet is? Uh uh (Negative). 56 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 Q A gauntlet is basically when you, people stand on either side of somebody and then somebody's gotta run through and they get hit the whole way through and then they're done. They run the gauntlet, that's what it's called. A 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 Right. Something from midevil times. Okay. That's what, that's what's going on on "The Bus". Oh that's crazy. Okay. Same thing. Oh,oh. Here ... That, but you made it seem like ... Well that's what it is, it's called (inaudible). Oh,oh. Q A Q A Q 12 13 14 15 A Q A 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q A (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q Yeah it's just tradition. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) 23 24 25 Q A It's a tradition. Okay. 57 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 Q Of you know, starting from, you know being squire to being a knight you gotta go through the gauntlet... A 4 5 6 7 Okay. ... and then all of a sudden you get to ride horses and everybody salutes you. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q Q 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 You get a special tattoo ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Q All that stuff. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q ... this, that and the other, whatever. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay so you're doing the same thing, people are doing the same thing on this bus. A Q Okay. Half the people on this, how, there's like what 30 people on, you said there was about 30 people on "Bus C". so in order for people to, for "Bus C": to happen, the tradition, everybody that's on "Bus C" goes into "The Bus". Right? Cause you're saying you ... A If you wanna do it, yeah if you wanna do it. 58 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Right if you're, if you wanna be on "Bus C" then you're gonna be part of the tradition, you're gonna help the other guys go through. Okay. You're, changing of the guard. Right. You're gonna, so you get on "The Bus" to like, cause you found out 3 people are gonna go through, Lissette goes, the other guy goes, then, then uh Champion goes. And then you get off "The Bus" and you leave. Do you remember what happen after, with Champion afterwards, did he say anything? I, I left before everybody. You left before everybody. I left before everybody, I, I seen Lissette, I kinda seen the other dude and when Rob went, when he, you know what I'm saying, when he was starting that's when I got off "The Bus". You do understand we have video footage of "The Bus". Right. And we see everybody getting off. Right and ... (Inaudible) 59 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 ... if you, if you really seen the video ... I have . ... yeah you had to see that I was before everybody. Right. But not like, Robert gets on the bus and you're like bam ... (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Ten minutes later ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... and then 10 minutes later everybody else gets off. Everybody else gets off after, after you too. Everybody leaves. Not everybody stays ... Right see that but that's ... ... on the bus because ... ... .that's only ... ... only a couple of people were helping Robert to get through stayed on "The Bus". That, that's,that's only the people that's in the back, way back. It's a big bus now, it's, it's, it, it, is ... You don't, you don't stick around to congradulate him, you know, I mean in the military you get promoted, you get like your, your, you get your ... Man it's hot. .. ... (inaudible) and you smack it in there ... 60 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 ? It's hot on "The Bus". Nothing, you don't stay on "The Bus". Uh uh (Negative) it's hot. Why is, why is all the lights turned off and everything else, why? I don't know, I just follow the rules man. And how did you find out the rules? They, they say the lights are off, it's, it's nothing to be said. The lights are off. Everything is just understood? (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) I mean we know that there's not general orders or policies written, it's just. .. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Right. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ... word of mouth. Right. But at what point, that's what we trying to get. At what point do you learn that hey here's what's goes down. You know once you are part of "Bus know you have ... I guess it's probably ... e" you 61 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 ... first section, middle section ... ... 1think it's probably ... ... and the end section . ... a, a, you learn as you go. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Cause you gotta be told. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) But you have to understand if me, I get on "The Bus", my ass is gonna stand that and be like alright what do we do next. At some, you know what I'm saying? But here ... (Inaudible) ... ... but see it, it, it, it's, it's, it's, it's different, it's different for everybody because okay, it, I say it's different for everybody because yeah there are rules but you know what I'm saying I did it for me you know what I'm saying. Okay. And, and trust me Caleb I know in doing this job a long time, I don't want you to come out and say look my job was as soon as he started walking I knock the fuck out of him. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) (Laughter) 62 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Because, you know what I'm saying? But that's, but look that's, and, and, and, and here's the thing with "The Bus", if, if you did talk to somebody they'll tell you that everybody, even if you on "Bus", everybody on "Bus C" doesn't, don't, you know what I'm saying, some people just watch. Right. But there's gotta be, what we're looking at is in, if we were all part of "Bus C" ... Right. ... okay, at some point we have to say okay look I'm sure there's things that you can do and things that are kinda frowned upon. I would think that like you know trying to put somebody's eyes out would not be a good thing. Um maybe in limiting, you know you can tell when a person is standing up you know and, and they're walking. Certain areas ... Right. ... to hit, to you know ... Oh yeah ... ... knee spiking the legs or soemthin like that. ... no, no, no, okay oh you talking 'bout like, oh no face, no, like you can't hit nobody in the face or you know the spine or anything like that. 63 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 Okay can you use anything or is it just hands and knees? Anything on your body, you're not hitting them with a drum stick ... Uh uh (Negative) .... or ... Well, well not, not in my case. (Laughter) See I'm, I'm ... Well actually you know what you could probaby poke somebody a nice rib shot with a drum stick. See I never seen that, weill, I, I didn't. .. Hyperthecially speaking ... I. ... .,. if one were to have ... ... 1didn't, I didn't, I didn't... .,. a drum stick . ... 1, you can't see that so you would never know ... Okay I can pretty much say ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) (Inaudible) ... 64 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ... that no one's gonna hit someone with a tuba ... Right. ... cause there's not enough shit in there. Right. Even though a tuba would be something that would probably hurt. When your adrenaline pumping and you going through it like it's, it's fast, it's quick, it's not, it's something that... Oh trust, I know. Oh, oh, it, okay ... When I got my service (inaudible) you walk the gauntlet... Okay . ... when guys are knocking the shit outta you!. Okay, okay it's, it's, it's something that's not, it's something that's not fast. mean it's, it's something that's not, like oh you just thinking 'bout it, like oh you see this, you see that. It's something that you just going through, you trying to run you know what I'm saying. Right. So you don't, you don't pay attention to everything. 65 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 Right. But in the same respect because you're, my goal is the person getting on "The Bus" is to get my ass from point A to point Point in a hurry. quick as I can. As quick as I can. And everybody's stopping and, Right. just the way it is. voYi_Es) CJ how long did you hold on to each person going through? That's yourjob, I know what your job was. I know what know what you, you're a strong dude. You were hold, you were holding him, holding him just like you said, you were trying to get through so people are gonna try to hold you back and people are gonna try to push you through. I know that you being on "The Bus" as a seated member you're trying to hold him so they can't get through. And, and here's the thing, with, like I said it's a percussion bus for me. Right. 66 Caleb JackS0nlCase _,Sw After a percussion bus that's when I draw the line you know what I'm saying because I'm not, I, I'm not about that you know. What do you mean? Every ... Why do you need to draw a line, if everybody's, if you, why do you need to draw a line if everybody's the same? Because ... Because Lissette got through easier because she's per, percussion and the other two ... No . ... because they were drum majors didtn't. No. That's where, that's where the problem comes in CJ. I don't wanna hear that, that it's okay, Lissette got easy because she was percussion. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) I can understand if it's easier because Lissette is a girl and you're not gonna ... I would, I would, I wouldn't know but it's just a percussion, she's in percussion I don't know about drum majors, I don't, you know what I'm saying, I don't know about that you know what I'm saying that's not, that's not something I know about. 67 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) How long, how long were you hanging on to, to Robert before somebody pulled him off from you? I, I didn't even get to him. That's how your name came up CJ. I didn't, that, that's the point. .. Your name came up because they were, somebody was pulling him away from you, that's it, that's how your name came up. But, but that. .. If you started, listen ... ... but that, but that's a lie, it, I didn't, I didn't. .. It's not a lie because here's the thing, you came in here and I appreciate you being, you're being honest, you are being honest. But you weren't when you first got in here and you said you weren't even on "The Bus", now we know that you were, we need to know the other people that did it, we need to know what he was hit with to make sure that he wasn't killed with anything. I don't, but you, now you ... You're holding on to somebody ain't gonna kill them. You holding on to somebody isn't gonna make him stop breathing unless you were holding on to his mouth or choking him which nobody said you were doing. But to say that you were on "The Bus" and then you just immediately got off (fingers 68 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 snapped) as soon as the drum major got on that's, that's just crap. We know it's crap. They, the, the people are telling us drum majors are like the police, you get a shot to hit them you hit them ... But that's,that's what I'm saying ... ... and you weren't hitting him . .. . I'm in the front. I'm in the front ... You weren't hitting him. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Right and we're not. .. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) So you were holding on to him not hitting him. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) And we're not saying that you hit him. Like he said when we take this it's a big pictur okay and each person that we have is another piece of the puzzle okay. And when we have the story I'm taking, I've got witnesses saying CJ's in the front holding him on, here's my piece of the puzzle. And then as it moves down further and we talk to other people then we get these pieces of the puzzle and then it all comes in. And once again it's to be able to show either that this is an unfortunate accident that happened from a tradition that has gone on for fucking every. 69 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12105/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) (Inaudible) (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Or somebody intentioinally meant to fuck him up from whatever reason which we don't believe happened. But this is where, unfortunately we need to talk to each Right. take that puzzle. I understand that. i And I don't want you to think that by you saying yeah I held him, because we know you did. Cause you said you did and then after he got by you that was it, he made it to the But it, it's not lt's you left. not like a hold, it's, lt's a, lt's a will power, it's, it's in your mind. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Like what do you mean, show, give me an example. 70 Caleb JackS0|1lCaSe 2105111 -1 E.. lf? -:me In your, in your mind meaning l'm not really holding you l'm just standing there. lt's your will power to push through me, you know what l'm saying, people that's in the front you don't actually hold them you just stand in their way. l'm not holding you you just pushing through me, once you push through me you gone. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Okay. So but in knowing how that is embracing through l'm probably going to be almost like a blocking drill, you know as opposed of. .. Right. l'm going back and then as soon as you get by me. Right. Okay is Right, yeah as soon as you go by me you gone. Okay so (DETECTIVE VOYLES) So is that (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) it, if l'm, if l'm Right there. the middle and got the seats here. 71 Caleb JaCks0nICase #11-101 834lYWl1 2105111 . wr Right. And he's coming Right. may brace into my seat, like where my leg is, and l'm Nah. in Uh uh (Negative), nah you got, yeah. not so Nah you, nah even do that you'll just stand there, you'll, you'll try But you're gonna force back some you know what l'm saying. He gon' push at you and you gon' push at him. Right., You know what I'm saying, you,you don't want him to l'm not talking where you're running down the Right, nah. throwing a elbow shot 72 Caleb JacksonlCase 3. Si So it, it's a bus ... ... his gut. .... you, you can't... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) CJ ... ... you can't, you can't, I'm, I, let me explain ... Okay . ... it all the way to you. Okay, alright go ahead. It's a bus, it's a pathway, you can't do anything but stand there you know what I'm saying. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Un huh (Affirmative) It's not like I could, oh rush all the way back here and run full speed at him with all these people, aliI could do is stand there and try to, you know what I'm saying, just be a blocking guard. He pushed ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) But then, but then you say that there's a rule that there's no face hitting. Right. 73 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 That means that there is other kind of hitting that's allowed. No that means, that means ... Cause why would you put a rule out there, (stuttering), if you're gonna stand there ... But I'm not back that far . ... stand there ... I'm not back that far to know, you know what I'm saying, I don't know ifthey, if they do you know what I'm saying. That, that's just a rule, that's ... (Inaudible) ... it, because you can hear it "Don't hit him in the face, don't hit him in the face", when I went through. (Laughter) You could hear it. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Trust me like he said we know. Shots get thrown, knee spikes go because in the side of your leg, you ever had somebody come up and thump you in that part, it's a (inaudible), a lot of nerve endings. You hit somebody just right it hurts like a bitch (fingers snapped) and will drop them just like that. It's funny, we used to do it all the time. Person would be at the drinking fountain, you come up, BOOM ... (Laughter) 74 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 .. .fucking drop cause that shit hurts. But let me, let me ... But these are what we're looking at. ... Iet, let, let me, let me understand, let me, if you wanna stop anybody, anybody, if, even if I wanted to say they ask you, you wanna stop, you wanna quit, you wanna quit, you wanna quit, you quit, you say no. If he wanna to, to stop ... Right you continue on because no one wants to be viewed as a puss. NoiL Because you know as soon as you say stop even if, you're gonna get dogged ... That mean they just won't let.. . ... and dogged ... It, it just wasn't for you. Exactly. But, but I'm saying they give you ... You see what I'm saying . .. .the option is what I'm saying. And like he said all ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) (Inaudible) ... 75 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) ", all we're looking for is just the thing and the fact that nobody's coming off with cinder blocks", Oh nah, nah, ", or anything like that. Never. That's a simple thing where unfortunately after the fact you know", Right. ",he passed away, But see, and, and I'm giving you everything that, you know, I know because I, I, I did it in 2011 not, you know what I'm saying, 2009 or anything like that. This is my first year on "The Bus", Okay when you went through did anybody hit you in the head? No, (Laughter) urn did you get knee spiked in the side? Nah, Because I was, I was rushing fast. You go through quick? Right. 76 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Did you hurt at all? Uh uh (Negative) You didn't feel it later on, I mean two people threw up after this one. Lissette didn't throw up but the two drum majors did. (Inaudible) And they are big dudes. Right. Lissette's a girl so that's why we're curious about how ... But you gotta ... ... what, what kind of thing are you talking ... ... but you gotta ask were they drinking or anything. They were at the game, they just got back from the game so there's a lot of drinking going on ... Were they drinking ... ... during, during the march . ... or anything. I thought you guys had to be in a certain formation ... Did you hear what I said? 77 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) (Laughter) (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Yeah I heard what you said. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) So I'm assuming a lot of the times the water, and water ... I, everybod, to each his own. (Laughter) To each his own. Got you (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Okay. Um ... My thing is when I went through "The Bus" I never failed, you know it was like bro you almost there, bro you almost there, bro, they help you you know what I'm saying. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Un huh (Affirmative) Yeah some people push you but a ultimate goal, ultimate goal you gon' get there you know what I'm saying ... 78 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Exactly . ... and once you get there you're relieved. Sometimes it's gonna be easier, sometimes it's gonna take a little longer. And, and this is what we know. It, it depends on how many people ... Obviously ... ... on "The Bus". Right. But in going through, understand our job right now as we said, because this is national shit. Right. If it, it'd be different if this were, you know the university in North Dakota's marching band. Right. Uh I was stationed in North Dakota ... But, and but, but what, what... ... they don't have shit, this is FAMU, this is one of the ... ... but what people, but what people ... ... best bands in the world . ... under, what people are not understanding that at the end of the day we all love each other, you know what I'm saying, this is ... 79 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW!12/05/11 1 2 Q A And there's no ... ... it's, it's a love thing. ... and there's no doubt ... You know what I'm saying. ... and that's why we're here ... Of course nobody would try to hurt them. That's is why we are here because you have to understand the general public in the big scope of things and looking out, looking in are going oh this had been going on for blah, blah, blah, and they intentionally did this shit which everybody knows. Our job like he said is to help disprove as much as prove a crime was committed. If I can say (inaudible), it's tradition, it's something that happen. Unfortunately someone died at the end of it. So of course this could be going on for years and like he said if it were another school with North Dakota, BFE, whatever it may be but you start talking FAMU, BCC, Gramling, Southern, any of your big huge bands ... 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Right. Always have, it's all about the band. But all, I ... A Q Right. . " that are just known. No one gives a shit about the football team, they suck . Q A Q A 80 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 And because this is why it's so national and we are just doing everything to be able to say look here's exactly what happen so everyone on the outside of these big news organizations, we can say look this is what happaned because it's a lot easier for people to understand that an accident occurred instead of some intentional thing you know that was planned, Right Does that make sense? Right (DETECTIVE VOYLES) CJ for the, just for, just so we can know, all the people that are on "The Bus", that were on "The Bus" this time, they were part of what happen, I, I wouldn't know, How, how many people were on "The Bus" about? Probably like 3D, Was that about as many people as were riding 'The Bus"? (No audible response) Was there anybody that you know that was on "The Bus" that was suppose to ride "The Bus" that you didn't see? It was The Classic, every, everybody that rode "The Bus" that" Was on "The Bus", 81 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 ... was on "The Bus". Okay. So about, so whatever the, whatever the roster says is those are the people that are on "The Bus". That's on ''The Bus" (inaudible). And uh, uh as, as, you know there's only, only 3 people went through the ritual that night, Lissett, the other one and then Champion? Right. Lissette was fine going through it, the other one a little bit of throw up, then Champion we all know what happened to him, that's it. Right. Did anything else happen after that? People going, you know freaking out that, that you know he wasn't. .. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Once they found out he ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... yeah once they found out. It, that's the point, a lot of people leave, like one, if you, like for us "The Bus" is a long but. Right. 82 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Once somebody go through it you know what I'm saying, that's, it's, it's a quick process but you know what I'm saying some people don't wanna stay, "The Bus" is hot you know what I'm saying, some people get up and leave you know what I'm saying. I'm all the way in the beginning of "The Bus". Do you know where "The Bus" driver was? No. Do you know how "The Bus" got opened? No. Urn did uh, when you all came back from the school, from the, from the Orange, Orange Bowl whatever it was, when y'all came back from there were the, were the faculity on "The Bus" with you guys when you were, when you drove back? When we drove back? Yeah. Uh yeah. When you, when they left did, did you all just stick around to, so that this could be done, you all could leave? Right. Okay so when they, as soon as the faculity left the other 3 showed up and then everthing went down, everybody left. Right. 83 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 Okay. So it was pretty much, that's, that's the way the thing goes, the tradition goes, if you're gonna do "The Bus" as soon as the game is over get your ass over here so we can do it so we can all go to get some grub. Right. Okay. Um did anybody, did you hear people help Robert after it was over? Did he say he was having a hard time breathing and people help him? Nope. To my knowledge he was fine. Okay you never heard him say anything bad? No never. Did you, you didn't see anybody throw up or nothing like that? No. Okay. When did you find out that he, something happen to him? Probably when I was leaving, when I was in the car coming toTaliahassee. Who told you? MJ. MJ did, did she call you? No somebody call her. Somebody called her, so you guys were on the way. So Monica's your girl, she's, is she you baby ... Nah she, it's my friend. 84 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 Your friend but you were going to where, to Palm Beach or you were going to ... No we was coming back to Tallahassee cause I had nobody to watch my daughter the next day. Okay. Because initially my baby mama was suppose to go to The Classic, my truck was suppose to be done but she didn't come, we was just gon' stay and I was gon' drive back with her. Okay. Because she had to work the next morning. Okay so you had to leave early? Yeah my things were packed that, that Saturday before we even left. Because she stayed in my room so either way if everybody would a crossed I was leaving anyway. So how many people stayed at your room? In my room? Yeah who was, who was the people that was in your room so that we can, I can, I can go up to them and go hey did CJ leave before or whatever. Uh ... Cause everybody else spent the night right? 85 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 Right but I could, I could call MJ for you right now. I know but... Yeah . ... MJ's your girl, not, she's your friend. I wanna get other people ... Oh . ... that, without you talking to them to go yeah CJ, he left. That's what, I wanna, I wanna ... The people, the people ... ... 1want somebody to corroborate . ... the people that was in my room left with the parents. So your room got empty that night and nobody else stayed there that night? Uh when I was there no. When I got there nobody was in the room. I mean stayed overnight, that stayed there that night, that slept there, then went and got on "The Bus" the next morning. I, I was gone. Who was in your room? All those, all the people, all the, how many people were in your room? It was 3 of us include, well 4 including me. Okay so 4 total, Monica stayed with you that night so there were 5 in that room that night? 86 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Right. Okay the next night after, after Robert died they all, all the other 3 people left with their family. Say I was gone before ... Okay but... Yeah . . .. I'm just saying, you're saying that that those 3 people left with their family. Right they, see because ... And you left with Monica ... ... they're from Palm Beach you know what I'm saying so no ... So nobody stayed in that room that night? Yeah they all went, they parents had timeshares at, every year, like even last year when they was with me, my homeboy was with me, we was in the same room last year. His um, his parents always get a timeshare in Orlando so he spend time with his mama and his dad ... (I naudible) ... ... and they come pick him up from the hotel so we never, we, and my dad was in Orlando you know what I'm saying. Okay. Alright. Let me (inaudible) real quick I'll be right back. 87 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Just to kinda wrap things up as well um once again just to be able to corroborate your story with everything else. And I don't want you to think that it's snitching or anything else. Because I'm not going to use your name at all okay. Just like we did in this interview here, when we said we've talked to other people that were there that had named you. Who else was on "The Bus", that's all we need to know so we can be able to talk to them if we already haven't. And this doesn't come back to anything to be with your name or anything like that. It just help corroborate the story. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) We're all good. Do you swear everything you told us today was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but? (No audible response) You have to say it. Oh yeah. (Laughter) okay. Um alright uh we didn't treat you bad right? We didn't beat up on you, we didn't hit you with a phone book like you see on television? Uh uh (Negative) Nothing like that, okay. Alright man. This will be the end of the interview, it is uh 5:15 p.m. 88 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY Signed this 9,1--L- day of 2 3 ~/~ ,2012. 4 5 6 7 DETECTIVE PHELAN, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 89 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF CALEB JACKSON 2 CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-101834 (Inaudible talking) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Alright so let me get this straight CJ, the people that he just, the doc uh Detective Phelan just went down the list, those people were present when this incident occurred with Robert, is that correct? That's everybody there. Now just look at me and answer my question. The people that you just went down this list and you said yes to Detective Phelan, those people were on "The Bus" ... That's everybody that, that after the game got back on that bus and we went to the hotel, that's everybody that I know that was on "The Bus", that's what I said ... And they participated in the crossing over? And see and that's the point I don't know cause when people say get on "The Bus", I just gave them who was on "The Bus". (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) Cause we've got GPS. 1 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Is, is your name, is your name on that list? (Inaudible) (Background talking) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay did you put a check mark on that, as you being there? (Inaudible) So you're on "The Bus" with these other people? Right I came back. Okay. Okay so you were present when this occurred? In the front. Okay. You cover this? (DETECTIVE VOYLES) But, but basically what he's saying is that when they, it, the way the, the way the, the ritual works is that you get on "The Bus", you go back, the, the uh, the older people get off "The Bus" and if somebody, if, if there's gonna be a ritual it happens right then. So you stay on "The Bus", the other people come on, do it and everybody that, everybody leaves and goes their separate ways to eat dinner. 2 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) Oh that's why you saying that everybody, you sad Un huh (Affirmative) ... Right that's, cause everybody had got back ... ... the older people ... ... on "The Bus". Right and with the exclusion of the ones that have X's. Right. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) But they, they, they, they either, they either stay with their parents for a, for a tailgate party or they went on, they went some other way. (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) Okay. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) These are the people that were on "The Bus" leaving ... (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) And rode back. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... leaving the Orange, the Orange Bowl, coming to the hotel and then that is when everything happens and then everybody else gets off "The Bus" 3 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) Okay. So I gave you what I know ... Okay. ... you know what I'm saying but the other people I, I wouldn't know. I see. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay so you were present when the 3 went through right (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Yes he was present ... Yes . ... when the 3 went through. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay and the doors stayed shut right? No. Nobody leaves until it's over with all 3? Nah some, you can leave. You can leave. Okay. If, if you did it before you can leave any time. Okay but these 3 that went through they stayed on "The Bus", the first 2 before Robert stayed on "The Bus" until it was done? 4 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Right. Until Robert was done. Right. And they were at the back of "The Bus"? Right. Okay. So they didn't leave? No. Okay. So of the group of people that you checked off here who were there while these 3 were going through their uh cross over? The way "The Bus" work, I'm in the front. Right. And I can't, it's so dark I can't see in the back. So ... Well you know who's on "The Bus" already. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) (Inaudible), nobody got, when, when you got to the Orange, when you got back to the hotel nobody got off "The Bus". Probably, its 2 pe, I think, it's like 2 or 3 people that actually got off "The Bus". So of the people that you checked off... But I don't know ... Right you don't know which ones got off. ... by name, yeah. 5 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 But, but you know which ones got on. Cause you're sitting in the front of "The Bus" ... Right. ... everybody gotta walk by and you ... Yeah I see everybody ... So the got on "The Bus" ... Right. ... and only maybe 3 people got off "The Bus". Right but I don't know by name who, who actually ... Girls or guys? I think its guys. So all the girls that got on "The Bus" stayed on "The Bus". Yeah. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay so ... (Inaudible) (DETECTIVE VOYLES) I know. (Background talking) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Alright. Can you, can you do me a favor? Yes. 6 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 Q Can you give him that Jist and you read off, cause I'm, I'm a little slow here. Read off the names of the people that were on "The Bus" when the 3 had their crossing over, to me please. 2 3 4 5 A Q I don't know who ... Just read, just read off the names of the people that you saw while the crossing over happened over... 6 7 8 A See I didn't, I, I only, alii marked off was the people that came back with, I don't, I didn't see nobody on "The Bus". You don't actually ... 9 10 Q CJ look at me. I. .. You were at the front of "The Bus" dude. Right. Okay. So I can't see ... Alii want... ... in the back. Okay but the ones that came over to "The Bus", that came on 'The Bus" that you did see walk to the back. How many people were at the back of "The Bus"? 11 12 13 14 A Q A Q A 15 16 17 18 19 Q A Q 20 21 22 23 24 A Q The people that's, that's already back there. Okay. Well, well they got off "The Bus" and they got back on "The Bus". 25 7 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Q Q Q Q (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Uh uh (Negative), no, no. No. No. A Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) No. A Q No. No. They stayed on "The Bus"? (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Them people rode ... They stayed on "The Bus". ... back, them people rode back from the game, they stayed on ''The Bus". They stayed on "The Bus". He said maybe 2 or 3 of those got off of "The Bus". Right. A Q A Q A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. Read me the names of the people that right now you can recall on, from that list, that were there when the 3 had the crossing over. Specifically with Robert, tell me the names. A Q It said Jessie (Inaudible) Jessie who? (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Baskin. Baskin. A 8 Caleb Jackson/Case #11?1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q A Okay. There's uh Sarelle Saneal, Ryan Dean, uh I'm not sure about, Aaron Goldstein and Adrian Green, Jamond Green, uh Ashley Hodge, Caleb Jackson which is me, Bryan Jones, Jeffrey Manning um Dontae Martin, Charles McCay, Benjamin MacNamee, uh Henry Nesbit, Travis Robertson, uh Lissette Sanchez and that's it. Q Okay all those people you just read to me were present when the last one, which was Robert, went through his thing correct? A Q A (No audible response) CJ. To my knowledge. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q A Q (Inaudible) I'm giving you everything I know. I, I under, I understand. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. (Inaudible) ... (DETECTIVE PHELAN) I understand, I understand what you saying. Right. Okay. To my knowledge. 9 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 Q I, what I'm saying, what I'm saying though were you at, still at the front of "The Bus" when it was over with? A Q I left after Robert went pass me. After Robert went pass you you left? Yeah you can leave any time ... But see Robert was one of the last ones to come off "The Bus". Right. So that, how many people went pass you that you saw on that list? Only Robert. Robert, Robert went pass me after he gone ... Did uh that girL .. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q But nobody can leave while this is going on. Yes, yes you can. I mean be nobody did because they have to walk up the gauntlet or this ... No ... ... the, the isle way. ... I'm, I'm in the front... Right. ... in the very front of "The Bus". Of "The Bus". Meaning after he ... So if somebody in the back of the ... ... after he leaves me I keep going straight because it's nothing else, he's the last one togo. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Okay but before Robert got off "The Bus" what we're trying to ... 10 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A Q Oh who, see I, I was the first one to get off "The Bus" so I, I, don't know who ... Okay but before you got off "The Bus" which is now it's the third person that's gone through this, none of these people have left, they can't cause they're, everybody's still going through this process. A Q Right. Correct? Right. Okay. A Q (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So from the time that it started to the time you left nobody got off "The Bus"? Nobody that I marked down got off "The Bus" to my knowledge, correct. A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Did anybody else get on "The Bus" during this? After Rob ... Once it started ... Everybody was on ... A Q A (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q Once it started. Uh no. A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q No cause ... (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q Right. 11 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Q Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) ... is it fair to say, correct me if I'm wrong, that once it starts there's no admittance, every, the door is closed. A Q Yeah the door is closed. Okay and you can't get off ... But not... ... there's somebody ... ... but. .. ... standing out of "The Bus" ... Somebody, now somebody can get, like if you did it before you can get on. Yeah, yeah I got that, I got that, I'm justtalking ... A Q A Q A Q (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Okay (inaudible) ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) ... about participating in it. But yeah nobody can't get on. Okay cause there's somebody standing at the door. Yeah. Who's standing at the door? Don't know. I never. .. Who did you assign to stand at the door? I just did "The Bus" 2011 so I wouldn't know who, who they assigned. No that day, the night that Robert went through, who did you assign to stand at the door outside say keep the door shut? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Who, you saying you, I ... 12 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Q Q Q Q Q Q Q (DETECTIVE VOYLES) No you, you in general, the people on "The Bus", who was assigned ... I don't know, I did, I, I never ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Was it Frank or was it John; you know who was standing there. No I don't, not if I ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) You had to go back out by them to get off "The Bus". It wasn't nobody there. It was nobody there. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) But. .. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Okay let me ask you this then real quick. During the process I guess Lis, the girl went first, the female? (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Lissette. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Lissette. Yeah. Okay she goes through, Robert came up late if I'm not mistaken. Do you recall it that way or do you not? I thought everybody was on "The Bus". You thought everybody was on "The Bus" from the beginning? Yeah. Okay that's all I need to know. A A A A Q A Q 13 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Did anybody come to help Robert? Well everybody ... Right no, no ... ... everybody helps everybody. .. , right I realize that but did anybody come specifically to help Robert to get through? A Q A Q A Q (No audible response) Not, they didn't help Lissette, they didn't help the second person, they only helped Robert. A Q Weill wasn't back there to know. You were in the front, this is, they start at the front... Right. ... of "The Bus". Right. So ... So it's, it's all on ... ... who's helping him push, as they walk by, as Robert goes by you who's with him? A Q A Q A Q A Q It's just manpowered. What... (Inaudible). ... okay who is his manpower? His self. Nobody else. A Q A Q 14 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Q Q Q (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Nobody's pushing from behind? It's not, it's, it's, cause it's, it's, it's not ... A (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Nobody's helping him at that moment? It's not that, it's not that (inaudible), "The Bus", "The Bus" goes in the, the beginning of "The Bus" is the lightest part. You go through it, you push through the, the people in the front just stand there you know as guards you know what I'm saying, just to make you tired, you know what I'm saying so you know you push your way through "The Bus". Now as it goes, I guess as it gets deeper you know my, as the, as how I did it you know what I'm saying, it kinda gets a little more like now they're trying to really hold you back from getting there you know what I'm saying. So that's when somebody helps you. They let you into the mob and then they keep you in the mob. Yeah now you gotta force your way out of it. A A (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Kinda like a march pit. Kind, not, not like a, I done heard about... (Laughter) A A Q ... a march pit, nah not, nothing like. Well in the same essence, like you said it gets a little worse. Now you did tell us that as it was going down you could hear people saying "Not in the head". A Q No that was for me (laughter). Oh but I thought you said that night as well. 15 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834fYW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 A No the, I said for me that's how I know, when you ask me how do I know the rules (inaudible), because I heard it when they said it to me, don't, don't, you know what I'm saying, don't touch him in the head or in the, or in the face or in the ribs or anything other than the nature. 5 6 7 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q So where, where, where can you, based on that where, where can you, where were they allowed to hit Robert? 8 9 10 11 12 A Q A Well ... Or the 3 that went through. It's, it's not really, I wouldn't know because it's not really a hitting thing. It's more so of off his alignment trying to keep you back from getting there. Q Okay. 13 14 15 A Q Uh ... You tell me, describe to me, I'm, I'm using the wrong term. Right. You describe to me ... It, it... ... what is it that that one person does to keep them from gOing back, describe it to me, what did, what did you see them doing to keep him back? A Q 16 17 18 19 20 21 A Q A Well I, I can't see, I can't see that far back. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q Let me help you. It was described to me that you were near the rear of "The Bus". You had Robert and you held him from, away from the wall and it took 2 or 3 people to push him through you to get to the back wall. A 22 23 24 25 No I'm in the front of "The Bus". 16 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay see; see that's why it's good always to talk for yourself man. Right. I'm in the front of "The Bus". A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q So we're ... Because I can't, I can't be in the back of "The Bus". Why? Because I, because I just did it. A Q A (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q You're under, you're, to them you're ... 2011, yeah to them you know what I'm saying ... A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Oh so that's, you're, you're not ranked to go back there. Right. Okay. So who's ranked to go back there? From that list tell me whose, whose ranked to be in the back. A Q A (No audible response) (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q Where were the other drum majors? (No audible response) A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q CJ. From the list... All y'all, that's what, I'm looking, I'm looking ... It ain't, you just read off of it, it ain't that. .. No I'm not... ... hard, come on. A Q A Q 17 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834IYW/12/05/11 1 A Q No I'm trying to see. Who's at the back of "The Bus" from that list CJ? (No audible response) The name that you're looking at right now, tell me which one it is. that's the one you're stuck on. 2 3 A Q 4 5 6 7 A Q (No audible response) CJ look at me. Are you telling me the truth right now? I promise I am. Okay. I, I, I, I ... But don't stop ... ... 1, I, I could, I could ... ... wait, wait, wait, wait, don't, don't stop right now by, by hesitating ... I'm cooperating with you ... You are. ... 1, I what'n ... You're doing, you're doing a wonderful job that's why I don't understand why now you're stopping. 8 9 A Q 10 A Q 11 12 A Q 13 14 A Q 15 16 17 A Q 18 19 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 20 21 Q I tell you what if you're afraid to say it point it to me. cause it's a lot different if you point it out than actually saying it cause then you're not snitching so to speak cause I know that's, I know that's your big worry. A Man all I know is I was in the front so ... 22 23 24 25 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q But you know who's in the back. 18 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Q 2 3 But it's like we said, you know based on this, see I wish we would a had this earlier and we could have gone down. Cause you know the different section leaders and everything else okay. And these are the people that are on "The Bus" so ... 4 5 6 7 A And I expressed that to you earlier. You got all these people in 'The Bus", you ask they who, you know what I'm saying. Somebody told you my name and that, 8 and that's fine with me but I ... 9 10 11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Q CJ as far as ... ... don't feel. .. .... you, you gotta understand we're, we're coming here from Orlando, we've got a minimal amount of time to talk to the people we need to talk to, we don't need to be wasting our time (inaudible) on "The Bus". And we're looking for the people that, that are in charge. People that can tell us who everybody is. 12 13 A Q 14 15 16 17 18 (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) 19 20 21 These are the people, whoever it is that's in the back of "The Bus", whose going to know, who has rank and everything else. 22 (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) Q 23 24 25 So, so it's safe to say that the section leader is at the back of "The Bus" right. I don't even think he was there. I don't know, I don't recall ... A 19 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 But I'm saying the section leader, assistant section leader rank sergeants, they at the back of "The Bus" right? Yeah I ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Okay who are those, who are the assistant Ie, all those people who are they, just, as an answer to that question who is the ... (Inaudible) Okay those 3 people? (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Wait which one? (No audible response) Darryl and Lasherri. No the one after. Karien Cox. (No audible response) And Darryl Seneai. That's the section leader and the assistant, that, they would know more than I would. 20 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay the question is this, those people who were at the back of "The Bus" when there correct? I don't go (inaudible) (DETECTIVE VOYLES) But you saw them walk on to that... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) You saw them walk on ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) ... you saw them walk on, you know who's allowed to ... Wh, wh, what, here, when we got on "The Bus" for The Classic to go back to the hotel, the, everybody got on "The Bus". I didn't see those two get off "The Bus" ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay . . .. so it's safe to say they were back there. Okay that's fair enough. You know so I don't, I don't... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) No, no, I. .. 21 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 A Q ... wanna give you more than I don't know you know what I'm saying. That, that's specific enough for me that's, that's what I understood and I said that's what I wanted to get, you didn't see them leave, as far as you're concerned 3 4 they were back there. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Q Q Q (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Right when you were on "The Bus" with it rolled out of the Citrus Bowl these two were in the back of "The Bus"? A (No audible response) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay that, I didn't saw it he walked right in front of you, you said yes? (No audible response) Okay. Um now did you cover this, as far as, what then, we didn't get to that part that you were saying, what is it that they're doing to keep him from getting to the back, Robert getting to the back? A Probably just like holding his hands or like holding a arm or something. Not like holding it real tight. .. Well what about... ... it's ... ... what about slapping him with something, a belt or anything else like that? That, that part I don't see, that you really don't see. You can't see it. It's ... A Q A A 22 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 Okay. dark. You could certainly hear it. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Well whenyou went through were you getting popped? didn't, didn't feel it. lf, if, if you, if you went, if you went, if you went, if you really went through this you really don't, you really don't know nothing. lt's, it's, you trying to get there as fast as you can. (DETECTNE CHIOTA) I got you. You really don't know. And really don't know. But you, but you, if you would look up quick right beforehand you know to dodge either a fist or a belt or a stick never, never look up, all seen was people trying to hold me back. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. Because people, you a go through different, like you know what l'm saying some people go through this in, in my case it's different for me cause It tricked everybody. How did you trick them? 23 Caleb JackSOnICaSe vi ii? E. Et. 5355 1 2 A Q Uh I said, I forgot what I said, I say "My pants coming down", and they stopped. (Laughter) And I got up and I ran so it's different you know what I'm saying. Got it. People have different, I heard of stories when people crawled under the seats and you know it's a lot of people you don't know who hit, you touch the back of 3 4 5 6 7 8 "The Bus", there is it, you know what I'm saying. A A Q 9 10 11 A Q Right, okay. So ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Q Q Well let, let, let's get down to Robert's, when Robert's doing it. He pass me and he gone. Okay so ... And, and he was strong so he was, he was there. Right. You know what I'm saying. As, as, as far as I know you know what I'm saying, by time I got ready to get off "The "Bus" cause I had to get back in the hotel and find, well actually I went up to the uh, the people to get my key cause I didn't have my key. Right. A Q A A 24 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 He was there, like you know I could turn around and see where everybody was going to that, he was practically there. Practically there where? Like almost to the back. (Music tone) Almost to the back. Right you know what l'm saying Was, were their, if somebody said that you were at the back of "The Bus" holding him then maybe the confused you with somebody else, who would that other person have been? When you looked back there and saw him almost to the back of "The Bus" who was holding onto him at that point? (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Does anyone have a beard like you? Man it's a couple of people got a beard like me. Okay well who, well who did you see holding him right before you got off "The Bus"'? Man didn't see nobody holding him but just see Well keeping him back the most. (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) Who on that list that you identified as a leader? 25 Caleb JackS0nlCaSe ,g my 1 2 3 4 5 6 A (No audible response) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Q Yeah who on this list has a beard like you (laughter)? (Inaudible) (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) A 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 Q Q Q Q Darryl? Yeah. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) So was Darryl holding him? A A Q I. .. When you left, when you last left and you looked out, you just said this, you looked down there, he's almost to the wall to touch it, whose got hands on him or the closest to him at that point? A Now I don't know if he's back there to the wall exactly ... But wherever. ... 1just know, yeah, I just know ... Okay ... ... where he's, you know what I'm saying ... Okay. A 23 24 25 A Q 26 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 ... you could tell where people at and it's, they in the back. Okay so picture in your mind, play the video back and tell me what's that picture say? What did you see, who was standing next to Robert either holding on to him ... You can't. .. (Phone ringing) ... if you take me to a bus right now and I turn out all the lights with like 30, 30 or so people in it you don't know whose who. You know ... Okay so "The Bus" ... ... you can't see . ... oh maybe I misunderstood, I thought "The Bus" was on, the AC was running ... Oh no. Oh no it's not. Oh no. Okay, okay. (Laughter) Oh no. The lights are off completely. If you turn off these lights right now ... (Background talking) ... that's what it looks like. 27 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 Okay. Pitch black. And that, it's that your suppose to do it that way. (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) (Inaudible) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) That's the way ... I guess. Okay. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Okay real quick and then I'm a let him take you on home. Uh how long, from the time Robert started to the time he ended you think he was going? No longer than 3 minutes. Three minutes. No longer. Okay. About the same for each, all 3 ofthem? About the same for everybody, whoever go. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Well just, we're just wondering ... 28 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 . .spec, specific that night. Oh yeah. Yeah probably no longer than 3 minutes. Okay. And prior to him was, was uh Robert feeling okay? (No audible response) Did he say anything to you? He nev, he never, he never rode our bus. No pri, at the beginning of the, when, when you were standing before he went down the isle. Oh yeah, yeah I, I don't know. He dIdn't say anything to you? Uh uh (Negative) Did he look distraught or anything else like that? Un huh (Affirmative) (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Breathing heavy. Un huh (Affirmative) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) What did he, was he sick at all in front of you? Did he get sick 29 Caleb JacksonICase 2105111 gg 1 2 A Q I guess it's, I, I try to tell you about how I went so you can try to get. .. Okay. ... a feeling. Please. It's anxious feeling, you ever got on a ride ... Un huh (Affirmative) ... you know what I'm saying and was like oh I don't know if I'm wanna go on that ride. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A A Q A Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q A Q Q Q A Right. You know what I'm saying, he was like ah hell nah. Un huh (Affirmative) (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Butterflies in your stomach. You know butterflies, you know so that's how I felt. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. So I felt, you know what I'm saying, he probably felt the same way you know what I'm saying, it's just okay I'm ready to get to this thing you know what I'm saying and ... 22 23 24 25 A 30 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Did he say, well did he say that to you? Nah he didn't say nothing. Okay. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) But there's the expectation like you said knowing that you're not walking down and people are gonna be hitting you with ... But at, at, at, at... ... soft feathers and stuff.... .. , but no ... . . ' you know that.. . .. , and, and that's why I try to express for you, you know everybody, like he said this, this, this been going on since the 60, you know what I'm saying. At the end of the day we all love each other you know what I'm saying so ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Oh yeah, yeah I got you . .. ,we wanna see, you can say you wanna see somebody do it if they gon' do it you know what I'm saying, it's something that you don't have to do. If you go to that bus that's saying that you wanted to do it. Un huh (Affirmative) 31 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 It's not nobody saying oh yeah you gon' come on this, especially with it being a drum major and a strong mind, it ain't nobody making you come. If you came to that bus they mean you made up in your mind that that's what you wanted to do. And, and when did you do yours? Somewhere around probably South Carolina. And who did yours? Everybody that was on that bus (laughter) The same list (laughter). That same list. And it, it was on "Bus C"? And that was this year, yeah. Okay And that's why I said whoever told you that I was in the back is a lie because how this being run, it goes from the beginning, whenever you cross until the back. So the most senior people are in the back? The most senior people in the back. Okay. Well now you've set me straight, thank you. You welcome. Okay if we need to, if we need to is it okay if we got, get back in touch with you again? 32 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 A Q (No audible response) And we got his cell number? (Inaudible) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Q A Okay great. Okay thank you. I wanna let y'all (inaudible) (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q (Inaudible) What's that? I love that man like a brother man. 10 11 12 13 Q A (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A ... if he, if he, if he did it that, he wanted to go on that bus. Q Q A Okay. You know what I'm saying. If he, if, if... (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Let me ask you something. 21 22 23 24 25 Q (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. 33 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE PHELAN) I know these are gonna be (inaudible) but I bet you you can handle it I can handle it. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Who are the people in that, who are the people in that picture there? (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Whose that right there with the shirt off? Man I can't even see who that is. (Laughter). I can put it on that big old camera. Nah l'm, l'm being dead serious I, I, I don't know (lnaudible). that is for real. Okay. That's too dark. Big man, you know who big man is? (No audible response) (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Whose the dude all in white? There go your list. (Background talking) 34 Calb JackS0nlCaSe (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Everybody here came off that bus? Yeah. You can look at your list, dang, that look like, it look like a girl. Un huh (Affirmative) It look like Lissette. It look like her. Un huh (Affirmative). And don't this look like uh the other guy that went through? (No audible response) Don't they wear no shirt when they go through? He ain't got no shirt on? I don't know. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) What do they do for girls when they don't, do they have to ... Nah they, I don't think, nah. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) (Laughter) They wear they, they wear they stuff. (Background talking) (UNKNOWN SPEAKER) That's a good question, I didn't think about that. Nah, nah it ain't, I ain't (inaudible). (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Do they, they, they wear a shirt though right? Yeah. 35 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 Okay. The girls. Well they can wear sports bra I guess. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) None of them? Now, now you see ... (I naudible) ... ... now I, now you know I see ... It's tough, it's tough ... ... 1can't see that. I really can't. Well you have to really look at they figure and know who was there on "The Bus" and ... (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Well look, look, with the clothing that you're seeing there, whose on "The Bus" with that cloth ing? I, I don't, we all, we just came from a performance you know what I'm saying. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) (Inaudible) We, ev, ev, everybody wearing the same thing. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) So everybody was in uniform still on "The Bus"? Most people you know what I'm saying. If they had changing clothes on "The Bus" maybe they, I guess they changed. 36 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Okay. Alright just a chance, I was just checking. Yeah I don't even. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Now do you swear everything you told these new gentlemen ... Yeah. .,. that everything is true. Uh true, you know sir I, I, I really, I'm, I'm trying my best. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) No I, I, I appreciate it. I'm trying my best. But I mean when he asked you that and you swear to it is that ... Yes. ... we take that as a, that you were standing by it. there's no reason to, to doubt what you're saying. A Q A See ... And you would say the same thing again if I asked you. To, to, to a certain extent you know what I'm saying. What do you mean certain extent? To a certain extent. Once he pass me ... Oh no I meant... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Q A 37 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 Oh yeah . ... as far as the statement (DETECTIVE VOYLES) I mean everything, everything you said to us. Oh yeah everything, oh yeah everything is the truth. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Okay. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) And that you are saying a certain extent what? Oh ... (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Like ... ... Iike what I seen ... ... as far as he knew . ... it's like far as I knew ... As far as he knew. He's told the truth as far as you know it. Right. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Okay you can only assume ... 38 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1 01834IYW/12/05/11 Nah I can't, I can't. .. ... (inaudible) . ... 1can't just make it up out my head. No I don't want you to. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) No we don't want you to. (DETECTIVE CHlqTA) You did very well, thank you sir. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Alright. (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Alright man thanks. (DETECTIVE KRAUBETZ) Thanks buddy. (Inaudible) cause like I said I thought I was finna go home 30 minutes ago. (DETECTIVE CHIOTA) Well we're gonna let you go. (Inaudible), my wife gonna be upset now. 39 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 (DETECTIVE VOYLES) Well you, you got my card right there, she can give us a call. It's not like you were stepping out on her. (Laughter) (DETECTIVE CHIOTAl It's about 6:20 now so uh just tell her, if you need dude you can, uh Detective Phelan will vouch for you, say you were helping out with out investigation so. Thank you sir. Alright man thank you. Nice talking with you. 14 15 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY 16 17 Signed this 25f t, day Of:$1 1/( b ,2012. :: 20 21 22 23 24 25 DETE~rYSHERIFF 40 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-101834NW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 Caleb Jackson/Case #11-1018341YW/12/05/11 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF SHAWN JOHNSON DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-104834 2 3 4 5 Today is Tuesday, December 6,2012. The time is 1612 hours. I'm Detective David A. Phelan Orange County Sheriffs Office Criminal Investigation Division. Also present is Detective Segreaves, Orange County Sheriffs Office Criminal Investigation Division. Present for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is: 6 7 8 9 10 11 (SA Duncan) Q Special Agent Jeff Duncan. 12 13 14 15 16 17 (Detective Phelan) Q And present from the FAMU campus police. (Investigator Cotton) Q Investigator Cotton. (Detective Phelan) Q And we're all here at, what's the building? 18 19 (Investigator Cotton) Q Foster Tanner. 20 (Detective Phelan) Q 21 22 23 24 25 Foster Tanner Building. Uh, in reference to an investigation into the death of Robert Champion. We're here speaking with: A Q Shawn Johnson. Mr. Johnson, what's your date of birth? July 26, 1993. A 1 Shawn Johnson/11-1 04834/12-13-11/1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q And you're aware you're being recorded a this time? Yes, I am. Okay. And uh, you understand that you are under no obligation to give a statement, uh, we're just trying to get information into what's the goings on and happenings surrounding the uh, Robert Champion's death. A Q Yes. Okay, uh, your name was referred to us as someone who may possibly have information as to what occurred or what happened occurring uh, on a bus. I take it that was involved in this incident. In your own words, just tell us what you know about the incident. A Um, as far as I know, he was trying to cross Bus C and he had to walk from the front to the back of the bus getting beat in the process of walking from the front to the back of the bus. And um, and before you get on the bus, I guess, you have to get hit first before you get on the bus and then you have to cross the bus. Q A Q A Okay, have you ever, are you, you're in the band? Yes. Okay. Oh, have you ever went through the process of Bus C? Um um. That's usually only for percussion players and drum majors. Just nobody else in the band does it, unless you want to. That's just a dumb process tome. Q A Q A Okay. So everything you know about it is from someone telling you? Um hum. And uh, you have no personal knowledge of the night that Robert went through. Not at all. All we got is the um, we had a memorial service, well, we didn't have a service that night. It was more like a praying on the second floor of our hotel. 2 Shawn Johnson/11-1 04834/12-13-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A A Q A Q A Q A Q Q Um, about him passing. We found out at the hotel. We all got text messages. We were all out at the movies and eating and things and we just got text messaged. Have a, you since, I, I take it you spoke with uh, the director here at the school or you spoke with someone here at the school about what, what you had heard occurs on Bus C. Um hum. And who was that that you spoke with? Uh, I was with uh, I was with uh, Dr. Emmons and his staff. Okay. I can't recall their names, but. That's okay. And uh, did you tell them basically what you told us here then? Yes. Okay, since that, uh, time you spoke with them, have you had any threats or anything against your life or health? No, nobody has said anything to me. It was, I've gotten a lot of encouragement on things, that if you get questioned just tell what you know and that's all I know about the percussion section. Uh, we don't find, we don't know too much about other sections except but word of mouth and that's all we can go by. Okay. 'Cause we don't go through the process. Okay, do you know Marcus Fabray? Yes, that's my friend from high school. Okay, a friend from high school? Uh, do you know anything about him being threatened? 3 Shawn Johnson/11?104834/12?13?11/1c 1 A Uh, yes. Um, it, it kind of amazes me how people in a band, they're mad at the people that, that are telling on things that are happening in the band and they're not mad about his death. It's like they're, it's, it's, non-existent, it never happened. It's like they're only caring about the people that are telling on the people that are, that are telling on the people that are doing things. 2 3 4 5 6 Q Right. Okay, so he received threats after he came forward with information pertaining to the death of Robert Champion? 7 8 9 10 11 A Yes. And what was happening on Bus C? Um hum. Okay. Q A Q 12 13 14 (S.A. Duncan) Q Do you have any specific knowledge of anybody who was in that bus at that time Mr. Champion's passing? 15 16 17 A On the bus? Um, I don't know any specific people. I know the person. I know the person that made a phone call. Q A Who's that? This, I don't know his actual name. All we know is his nickname, 'cause we don't like, that's what we go by but his nickname is Snacks. 18 19 20 Q A Q Snacks? Yes. He's the one that made the phone call? Yes. And how do you know that? Because we know his voice. That was nobody else voice. 21 22 23 24 A Q 25 A 4 Shawn Johnsonl11-1 04834112-13-1111c 1 Q Plus you heard it on the TV and knew that's who it is? Um hum. Know exactly who it was. And the thing was behind that is, we, we saw him the other day and we're like the person that, that made the phone call is still walking around. We still see him. And you're mad at the people trying to help the, the band. I, I don't get it. That's what amazed us. And we're like why are you mad at us. You should be mad at the people that had something to do with, or knew what was going on during the process. He knows, I'm sure he does. 'Cause he made the phone call. 2 3 4 5 A 6 7 8 9 (Detective Phelan) Q 10 11 How long have you known Snacks? This is my, this is my freshman year. This is my first year in the band. Have you seen him, you know him for one month? Um, yes, well. Have you seen him over 5 or 6 times? Yeah, band practice. If you saw him again, would you be able to recognize him (inaudible). Yes. So if we showed you several photographs, you oughta be able to pick him out. Yeah. None of them. None of them. None of them. None of them. None of them. Him. A Q A Q 12 13 14 15 16 A Q 17 18 A Q 19 A 20 21 22 23 24 25 (S.A. Duncan) Q Which one? This one. With the glasses? A Q (Detective Phelan) 5 Shawn Johnson/11-104834/12-13-11I1c 1 Q Just for the record. 2 (SA Duncan) Q For the record, an individual picked out an individual by the name of Henry Nesbitt. N E S BIT T. Nickname Snacks. And you've know Snacks or Mr. Nesbitt for couple months while you been here at the school. A Q A I don't know him personally, but I mean, I see him on the band field. On the band field? Yeah, we don't, we don't, well we don't really talk. As a freshman, I'm not really allowed to talk like that, so. I mean we just see people and we recognize their faces. We might get a name every now and then but I mean, I don't know him personally. Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A What section are you in? Um, euphonium. What? Euphonium sector. Oh, and what's, where is uh, Snacks at and what does he do? He in percussion. He's in percussion? And you never had any conversation with him personal? No. I never talk to him like that. I don't like them because they do so much. That being the percussion section? Yeah, they just always wild. I mean, that's every band. Even in high school. My percussion section was crazy. I mean, it's. (Detective Phelan) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 Shawn Johnsonf11-1 04834f12-13-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 Q Okay, that should do it, uh, the time is now 4:20 and we'll conclude this interview. Raise your right hand for me. Do you swear everything you said in this statement is true and correct? A I do. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY ,2012. 21 22 23 24 25 7 Shawn Johnson/11-1 04834/12-13-11I1c 1 2 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF BRYAN JONES DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-104834 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Today is Tuesday, December 6, 2010. The time is, 2011. The time is now um, 6:30,5:31,1731 hours. I'm Detective David A. Phelan, Orange County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division. Also present is, is Corporal Mike Segreaves and representing the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is: 10 11 (SA Duncan) Q Special Agent Jeffrey Duncan. 12 13 14 15 (Detective Phelan) Q And we're at uh, ... (SA Duncan) Q Foster Tanner. 16 17 18 19 (Detective Phelan) Q Foster Tanner Hall, Room 211, speaking with? Bryan Jones. Bryan Jones. In reference to the death of Eddie, uh, Champion. (Phone ringing) A Q 20 21 22 (SA Duncan) Q A Q Listen, Jones, you give me a little bit of back, are you in the band? Yes sir. And are you familiar with the incident or were you present during the incident when Mr. Champion passed? A Yes I am familiar with it. 23 24 25 1 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11I1c 1 2 3 Q Okay, did you ride Bus C from Tallahassee to the Citrus Bowl location or to Orlando on the 18th? A Yes. Okay, and were you assigned to the bus totally on the day of the 18th, that night as well as Saturday the 19th? 4 5 Q 6 A Q Yes. Okay. Who, start with urn, Friday evening, the18th. When you guys arrived or when the band arrived in Bus C in the Orlando area. What did you, what, what was your agenda? What did you guys, what were you to do? 7 8 9 10 A Q On Friday? Urn hum. Uh, Friday we got there. We changed and we uh, went to Amway Center for the (inaudible). 11 12 13 14 A Q Okay. And how long were you at Amway Center? Urn, a few hours. And once you left the Amway Center, where did you end up going? We went back to the hotel. Which is the Rosen. Are you, are you familiar with a urn, the phrases, (inaudible). 15 16 17 18 19 20 A Q A Q (Detective Phelan) A Hot seat. 21 22 23 24 (S.A. Duncan) Q A Q Hot seat? (Inaudible) Have you ever observed any of those? 25 2 Bryan Jones/11-104834/12-12-11/1c 1 A Q No. Okay. 2 3 (Detective Phelan) Q During your uh, the ride back from the Rosen Center, uh, were you aware of any uh, activities on the back of the, you were on Bus C that night, right? A Q A Q A Q Yes sir. Uh, are any activities being taken place on Bus C? No, just. .. Uh, mainly hot seat. Not that I know of. Okay. Uh, after you got back to the uh, uh, Rosen Center, what, what had occurred? A Q A Q A Q Uh, we got back and went to the room, showered, changed. Okay, and you say we. Who are you referring to? Everybody. Um, you went back with your roommates. Who were you roommates with? Um, Walter Francis and Ryan Dean. So each one of them when we talk to them gonna say you went back to the room with them? A Q Uh, I didn't go back with them. So, where did you go when you left, when, when the bus arrived back from the uh, arrived back there. A Q A I went back to the room and showered and changed. Okay, you went by yourself. Were they there or what? Uh, when I got there, I was the first one back. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 Bryan Jones/11-104834/12-12-11/lc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Yeah, and when they got there, you were still there? Yes. Okay, did you have an occasion to go back to the bus that night? No sir. I went, um, back outside to, to smoke. And um, have you um, have you talked to anybody we talked to about this. Have anybody told you that they talked to the police about this? A Q A Q A Q I, I heard you'all call people out of class. We talked to quite a few people for some reason your name has came up as being on the bus at the time of these incidents happened. So we need you to explain why would your name come up as being involved in this incident? A Q Urn, was I, Lissette Sanchez, she, she did it. I was on there when she did it. Um. And um ... That's Friday night? Or Saturday night? That was Saturday. Okay, okay, so we haven't got to Saturday yet, but you weren't there Friday night. No sir. Okay, so now let's move to Saturday. Did you rode Bus C to the game? Yes sir. And did you ride Bus C home from the game? Yes. And once you uh, got back from the game, did you go. Did you remain on the bus or did you go up to your room? A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q I went up to my room. And at some point did you return back to the bus? 4 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Q Yes sir. Okay, and when you returned back to the bus. Has Lissette already gone through the process, or was she currently about to go through the process. A Q Oh, I believe she was about to go through. Okay. And you uh, were you on the, did you get on the bus or were you just, where were you at? A Q A Q A Q Um, I got on to get my lighter and got off and I went back out to smoke. Okay, so you went on the bus. You got your lighter and you came back off. Yes sir. So when, when you went on you saw Lissette getting ready to go through. Yes sir. Okay. I, I know it seems like it's a scary situation. You just need to be truthful, okay? 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 A Q Yes sir. People now already told us things and we're just gonna, you know. You just need to confirm what happened and tell us the truth. If you lie, then, of course there's problems. There's consequences. Uh, so you go on the bus. Lissette's getting ready to go through. Do you see anyone on the bus that you know? Besides Lissette? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q I remember Ryan Dean. You know him. Uh, April, um, and (Inaudible) and Jessie. You want to ... That's all I recall. You know who the bus president is referred to as on the bus? 5 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11/Ic 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Uh, no I don't. When did you go through? When did you cross over? Or have you crossed over? A Q A Q A Q A Q I haven't crossed. Have you started the process? (Inaudible) Okay, how many times have you been through the uh, hot seat portion of it. I didn't even ... You haven't even started the hot seat yet? (Inaudible) Okay. If you were to I guess by getting started which means that I guess they would come and tell you when you would do the rest. I'm trying to understand how the process would work, as far as you would understand. How do you think it would, it works for you? A As far as I understand, like they wouldn't, I figure you wouldn't be told. You just, 'cause, like when people gone through and I like know they've gone through, it's like whoa, when did you do it? Q So, I'm a ask you again. When you went on the bus, you went on the bus, what reason? A Q A Q A Q Urn, to look for my lighter. And you did not get involved in any of the activities? No sir. Were, did you see uh, Keon? Yes. And where did you see Keon at? 6 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q I saw him walking to the bus. Okay, did you see Robert anywhere? He was with Keon. Him and Keon were together? Who's your section leader? Carrie Ann Cox. Did you see him? Um, no. And this was your freshman year? This was my second. This is your second year. So this is your second year of riding Bus C? No, sir, first year. Okay. So Friday night you didn't see anything, didn't hear anything. And you've never been aware of any uh, hazing type activity. Has anybody explained to you what the hot seat is or how it works? A Q I've, I've heard. Where were you sitting on the bus Friday night when you, when you were coming back from the uh, battleground. A Q Um like the 3rd or 4th seat back. I mean, I'm, you know, we're, we're trying to learn here. Uh, so do most of the uh, freshman and first, second year people sit toward the front and the other people sit, the older people sit toward the rear. How do that work? A Urn, pretty much they sit by like who you know, like yeah, pretty much (inaudible) ... it's like but, I guess like the seniority of more years you have in the band, like people will sit at the back (inaudible). (SA Duncan) 7 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11f1c 1 2 Q What are you gonna do? What, let me ask you a question. When um, your, your roommate was Ryan Dean, also, right? 3 A Yeah. He was on the bus? Has he gone through the process himself or is he? Do you know or have you talked to him about it? 4 5 Q 6 A I think he has. Was he on the bus that night when they, when this occurred? When these incidents occurred? 7 8 Q 9 10 A Q I think so, yeah. He was? Was he on it when you went and get, got your lighter off the bus? When he came back later that night, did he tell you what happened on the bus? No? Was there any conversation about it at all? 11 12 13 14 15 A Um, he talked about he was saying he like broke his glasses or lost them or something. Q Did he say how he broke them? Did he say he lost them on the bus or where did he say he lost them? 16 17 A He, uh, lost them on the bus. 18 19 20 21 22 (Detective Phelan) Q Do you know Lasharrie Conner? Conner? Was she on the bus? Yeah, Lasharrie, I saw her when I was um, when I was leaving. On the bus or coming toward the bus. She was coming towards. And again, you would have been leaving before they finished with Lissette? A Q A 23 24 Q A Q 25 8 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11I1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q I, I think she actually started when I was getting off. Lissette. Okay. You know the drum majors if you saw them? You know them pretty well. Besides Keon and Robert, did you see any of the rest of them that night. while you were near, at or near the bus? A Q Saw them walking, walking toward it. Who, who did you say they was walking towards? Um, Keon, Robert. Think I saw Shawn. Do you know K, C.J.? Yes. See or hear him there? See or hear him? See or hear him on the bus? No sir. Do you know Benjamin McNamee? Yeah. See or hear him on the bus? I think he rode it back. Believe he rode, believe he rode it. When we ask you like did you see him on the bus, I'm, we're asking about during the time that you went back on the bus and this incident, this hazing stuff. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q Uh, no sir. Okay. (Inaudible) (SA Duncan) Q (Inaudible) ... Was there anybody on the bus that you didn't recognize? That was maybe alumni or somebody wasn't actually in the band at the time? Is everybody that rides the bus in the band and an active student at the campus? 9 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11I1c 1 2 A Q Repeat that? Everybody that was on that bus, Bus C, that you know, are they all active students here at the campus? 3 4 A Yes. 5 6 (Detective Phelan) Q Dante Martin. Know him? Yes. Was he, was he there? Did you hear his voice? See him? No. 7 8 9 10 11 A Q A Q Alright Bryan, we appreciate it. Uh, do you swear that everything you said in this recording is true? 12 13 14 A Yes sir. Okay. The time is now. Q (SA Duncan) Q 15 16 17:50. (Detective Phelan) Q 17 18 19 20 1750 hours and that will conclude this interview. 21 22 23 24 25 10 Bryan Jones/11-104834/12-12-11/1c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 Bryan Jones/11-1 04834/12-12-11/Ic 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JOSH LATIMER CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 Okay today's date is Sunday, November the 20th, 2011; the time is now uh 117 hours. "m Detective David A. Phelan Orange County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division. I'm currently out at Dr. Phillips Hospital in reference to Orange County case number 101688, it a be a death investigation and we're here speaking with uh state your first and last name for me. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Josh Latimer. Mr. Latimer uh you are employed by who? I'm sorry? You are employed by who? The Columbia County Sheriff's Office. Columbia County, okay SO. And you, I guess drive uh ... This is a part time job ... (Inaudible) .. (inaudible) Job. And who's that with? Uh ... The company ... Fabulous Motor Coach. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Q A 1 Josh Latimer/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Fabulous MOT 0 R C 0 A C H, Motor Coach. Okay and today you uh were driving for FAMU band? (Background talking) A Q That's correct. Okayand ... Driving the uh the director and the uh the band majors or the ... Drum majors. Drum majors. Okay and you took them to the game and then brought them back from the game? A Q A Q A Q Correct. Okay. And when you brought them back from the game where did you drop them off at? A Q The uh, the side entrance of the ho, the side back entrance of the hotel. And the young man that uh got later determined to be deceased uh lets see, Robert Champion, did, was he in the uh limo when y'all came back? A Q They all were in the same (inaudible), told he was in the limousine, I. .. Okay you don't know him one from the other. A .. .1 couldn't place him because I just met them all today and I saw them for a very short time. Q Okay. But I was told he was one of the uh drum majors that was in the limousine. Okay and uh when you dropped them off uh where did you go then? I uh went to the back, made contact with my supervisor and we made arrangements, we were going to uh, I, and then I re-parked the limousine on the A Q A 2 Josh Latimer/Case #11-1 018341YW/12/05/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 side of the building to pick up the director, his wife and child to take them to Joe's Crab Shack. Q A Okay. And also in the mist of all that there was arrangements made to actually after dropping the director off at Joe's Crab Shack I was gonna pick up the drum major or the ... Q A The drum majors. ... drum majors, I was gonna pick them up and take them out to dinner also. And he, I guess he was one of the ones that was gonna go out. Q A Q A Q And you never got to do that? No sir. Okay. So they never left, far as you know they never left the property ... Right. Cause they were waiting for you to take them and then come back and take them. A Q A Q A Right. Did you go back to the uh, the scene back there where ... Like when the patrol car came around the corner ... Un huh (Affirmative) ... 1saw it go towards the coaches, I knew there were drivers back there because they had gone to dinner... Q A Q A Uh huh (Affirmative) ... and me and the, the, the director went back there to see what's going on ... Okay. ... and that's when we saw the uh the deceased ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 Josh Latimer/Case #11-1 01834NW/12105/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Q A Q A Q A Q A Un huh (Affirmative) ... 1guess uh laying in the isle of the, the coach. Okay. And uh do you have anything else (inaudible)? No. Okay. Were they, were they drinking or anything going or coming? No, no, uh all, when they got out of the coach they had bottled water. Bottled water. (Inaudible) throwing in the garbage can. Nobody was drinking any alcohol (inaudible) the coach or in, in, excuse me, in the limousine. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 A Q Q Q A Q A And did, is this the first time you've driven for them? Yes sir. Okay. From my understanding this was a special since it was the last game ... It was a last minute thing they did, just called and had this scheduled the last minute. Alright you swear everything you said is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Okay that will conclude this interview. THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY 21 22 23 24 25 Signed this /:5 day of ,~/( ,2012. DETECT~n?RJFF 4 Josh Latimer/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/05/11 County Sherif-f's Office STATEMENT rang . ol az an im: Please fill tin full ta'| OffenseMonth: Da 1 Year: Ti Sus ect Loca'on one- Olferlezof Or/Aplfib /q C0622 Name Ae: Race: Sex: a ge-1% LU m, l, b?\5L` do hereby voluntarily make the following statement without threat, coercion, offer of benefit or favor by any persons whomsoeverse?J\ ,uJ\ 5' Jrivw 10/xml I _t Qs . .i ly, Signature. _gl GISDHG HOWIY Pfodunedxdenfinnaffan El DeputySheriff? NoiaryPublicE! . 10-1181 (6/09) While - Slate Aflomey Oflice 6~aIige County Sheriff's Office. Crime tion Sheet Any and all persons entering a scene .(ihcluding the first deputy on _the scene) are required to . print their name and state the'reason they entered the scene in th~ spaces listed below. Th~s is to aid in the elimination of fingerprints a,nd footwear impressions at the Bcene. crime r:lc:-a-se-:#....I,-;-_-/-'C-i/-p.-.s-1,/-.--, I , Loca.tion: f700 DatelTime: Datetrime: Date!I'i.me: 10-1317 (9/96) White - Records Yellow - Investigations Pink - Forensics Gold - State Attorney 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF TONY LEAVELL CONDUCTED BY DETECTIVE PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 7 Okay today is Wednes, Wednesday, December the t h , 2011; the time is now 1145 hours. I'm Detective David A. Phelan Orange County Sheriff's Office Criminal Investigation Division, also present is uh Corporal Segreaves Orange County Sheriff's Office. Uh we're currently out at the Florida A&M University uh Police Department and we're here speaking with, your first, state your first and last name for me. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 A Q A Q Uh Tony LeaVelle. . Tony LeaVelle, what's your date of birth Mr. LeaVelle? 16 17 6/29 of 54. And what is your uh address? Uh 3241 Whitney, W HIT N E Y Drive West, Tallahassee Florida 3 2 3 0 9. 32309? Yes sir. Okay, do you have a home phone? Yeah uh weill have cell ... Cell phone. ... 8509800938. And how are you currently employed? 18 19 A Q A 20 21 22 Q A Q 23 24 25 A Q 1 Tony leaVelle/Case #11-1018341YW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A I'm self employed. Photographer. (CORPORAL SEGREAVES) Q A Q A Q Sir you understand that you're here of your own free will, we're not, you don't. .. Right. ... have to make a statement or anything like that. Oh yeah I don't have no problem. Okay. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A A Q A Q Q A Q Uh you uh are a self uh employed photographer, are you uh retained by the bank or any edits, any entity of the uh university? Yeah well I'm with the, I'm actually the bank photographer. I travel uh to the games with the out of town and uh, and um I do ride the "Bus e" and this, uh for the last game I didn't because I had another um job in Orlando on Wednesday so I had to come down early but I did ride the bus to the uh battle of the bands and to the game. Okay. Okay so on the trip up from uh Tallahassee to Orlando you, you uh did not ride the bus ... No not... ... cause you were already in Orlando. I was already in Orlando on Wednesday. Okay. And uh then on uh Friday evening you rode the bus to the battle of the bands? Yes sir. Did you ride the bus back from the battle of the bands? Yes to and, to and fro. 2 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11 ?1018341YW/12/13/11 Q Okay and where are you seated on the bus? I'm seated uh I'm seated the second seat from the front on the driver's side second seat. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Okay and uh during the ride back from the uh, from the uh battle of the bands did you hear any commotion in the back of the bus or anything that would indicate uh, uh a fight or anything like that? A No not, not on uh, not on Friday either, or either Saturday, just, you know they always singing or, or, or making loud noises back there but um nothing that like a, a fight or anything, no. Q A Have you ever heard of uh the crossing over? I haven't, you know I hadn't heard of it until uh just what I read and then what, what some people said you know and I didn't know that there was actually, you know all I knew was uh when they came, sometimes when the come on the bus they had to walk backwards ... Q A Q A Right. ... cause they were frank, freshmen or whatever. Right. And you know I didn't know, uh I didn't know that any um, anything about a crossing over or The Classic thing until actually all this happen. Q Right. And. Okay and then on Sat, you returned to the uh hotel on Sat, Friday night, did you uh leave the bus immediately? A Uh yeah we're generally the first ones off the bus uh since we up front it'll be uh Earl, me, Earl and, and Dr. James usually the first one off the bus um wherever we go really, we generally the first ones off. 3 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Okay and do y'all normally hang around until the bus is cleared or do y'all just leave ... A Nah we don't, I, we try to get to the elevator before everybody get there. (Laughter) (CORPORAL SEGREAVES) Q A Big crowd to be waiting on. Yeah, yeah so I, and I try to get you know with Dr. James cause you know he, they kinda let us, let us through and I be with him so. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q Okay and do you ever go back to the bus, not on, not this night but in the past, do you ever go back to the bus through the night to get things off of it or anything like that? A Uh I very, I, I can't say that I've been back to the bus because usually I have my computer and then I have my uh camera bag with me so then ... Q A Un huh (Affirmative) ... what I generally do is go and start downloading my pictures, you know and try to get, get all the stuff done from that night and then the um, uh you know and have it ready, weill don't have it, I don't have to have it ready the next day but I generally get that done then cause I know I got something to do the next day. Q A (Inaudible). Is this your signature here? Let's see times of the uh fight. Yes sir, yes, I got that uh after, actually I, that's, I, I scribbled it in there but Miss Jackson actually gave me allocations at the hotel. Q A Okay. So (belched) excuse me, when I say her um I think it was, I think it was that Friday night. 4 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1018341YW/12/13/11 1 Q A Un huh (Affirmative) After, right before we went to the battle. Yeah cause I had just checked in, I get done with my other job, the other contract I have about 4 and then I come on over to the band hotel and check in and ... 2 3 4 5 6 Q Okay so ... ... then I saw her in the lobby. Okay. So you're normally uh a part, get, get a (inaudible) for your ... Yes sir and a room, yes sir. And uh are you paid also? Uh yes, yes sir, I suppose to got, get, actually I got my pay in there now, I was hoping to get paid already but. (Laughter) A Q 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 A Q A A Uh I turned my invoice in at the end of the um band season and it was right, it was uh the week of The Classic actually, right before I left. I left on Wednesday so I think I emailed it to her on that Tuesday. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 Q A Q Okay. Okay so now we're at Saturday. Uh you go to the game ... Yes sir. ... uh so you ride, you ride the bus to the game. Ride the bus to the game and back. Okay the, ride the, the game is over, you ride back. Un huh (Affirmative) Uh you immediately the first ones off the bus. Yes, yes sir. And then y'all go back to your room. A Q A Q A Q 22 23 24 25 5 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Go back to the room and uh I actually went back to my room, I was actually, cause I had to stand up. Q Un huh (Affirmative) You know I was gonna go out but I had to stand up cause I drove my, like I say I drove my truck down but I had to stand up all day and I just got tired. I stayed in the room and I actually saw the fire truck come, where I, where my room is I can see the fire truck coming. A (CORPORAL SEGREAVES) Q Un huh (Affirmative) So I saw the fire truck coming and I, but I was thinking that um the um AME had their convention there. A (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q Un huh (Affirmative) So I thought you know maybe one of the ... Older. .. ... elderly, older person had a (inaudible) cause then I saw a, a ambulance come so I was like okay well, and I really didn't find out until, I left like that next morning about 7 and Dr. um, well not Dr. but Mr. Sergeant was, was coming out, taking a guest, uh was getting on the shuttle. A Q A Q Un huh (Affirmative) And, and I told him, I said "Well Serge I'll have you picture uh next week" and hen he said "Well it may be null and void", I say "What you mean", he said "One of the drum majors died last night" and I said, and that's when I, that's the first time I, I heard about it... A Q And that was the next morning at 7? 6 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q A Q It was the next morning about 7 a.m., yeah. So you went everywhere with them right? Yes sir. Okay you recall a incident in uh South Carolina where the buses was broken into? A Q A Yes, Un huh (Affirmative), Un huh (Affirmative) And the entered an unlocked bus or something? Yeah uh it was a, suppose to been, I think it was the last bus, uh, uh the freshman bus. Q A Okay. Yeah somebody had, we got back and uh all their stuff was gone so, and I know um sometimes I uh, cause when we travel like that and I have my computer with me I try to make sure, see if the ladies gon' lock the bus ... Q A Un huh (Affirmative) ... and if she does a lot of time what I'll do I'll take my stuff up to "Bus A" because the gentleman up there he always locks his bus. Q A Okay. So I always take my computer, cause I, you know I look at it, I be like man, you know she tell me that you can hit this button and you can get in the bus, I'm like well shoot my computer is in there you know so I'm like, I, I always take it up to the uh, to the front bus. Q A Q So "Bus C", she, uh Wendy right? Yes, Un huh (Affirmative) Wendy normally drives "Bus C" almost. .. 7 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-101834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yeah that, not all the time but uh most, most of this band season she did, a couple of times she didn't but uh, um most of the, most of the times I think she, she had "Bus C". Q Okay and uh during the time she's driving you're saying that her bus some reason, for some reason be open and, and the other one don't? A No I don't know about the other ones I'm just knowing, I'm just saying af, like when we stop somewhere ... Q A Q A Un huh (Affirmative) ... Iet's say we go do a parade ... Oh okay. ... in Atlanta or something like that and then uh you know the bus is taking off so I be like, you know are you gon' lock the bus and then if it's not locked I generally just take my, cause I, I have my computer with me or maybe some, my, some more stuff in my camera bag and I'll take it up to uh "Bus A" because I know that gentleman he always locks his bus. Q A Q A Okay. So. Okay. Uh overnight, is it normal that they lock the buses? They suppose to, I know they should, yeah. I don't, I, I don't ever leave anything on the bus so, and in this case everything came off the bus cause I didn't have a suit, I didn't ride with them so you know I knew I what'n gonna uh, and I knew I was gon' leave early uh Sunday morning. Q Who all was at, were the adults on the bus that, do you know who the adults, when you got, went, the uh battle of the bands, who all were the, were the adults on the bus then? 8 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 A Q Uh, uh it was Dr. James and uh Earl Jones and myself. Dr. James, Earl Jones and yourself. Yeah. And when you came back from the uh football game? Uh the same, the same people. Well let me see who else, was anybody else riding on that bus? Cause generally when we go to the game people a jump on the bus, you know extra people. A Q A Q Yeah. I'm trying to think, I can't uh, who was up front with us? I don't know, I think Phil was up there, yeah him and his family was there, Phillip, uh one of the tra, ex drum majors he was there. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Okay. And uh, um I can't think ... How ... ... 1can't think of who else, if anybody else, I know some more, I know the, cause the buses was more full when we going to The Classics and stuff like that cause other people ... A Q A Q Right. ... jump on. And uh, and, and ... How, that, that was my next question how, in a game like that, if you only have so many band members do just other people ride, ride along? A Q A Sometimes on some, some of the big games like The Classic and maybe um, uh, uh, but not down from Tallahassee. Q Not from Tallahassee ... 9 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1 01834NW112113111 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A Not from Tallahassee, sometimes some of the ex band members a come on and maybe, you know uh maybe a gentleman or, or, or maybe a ex band member or something like that, sometimes a ride. Q A Jump on and ride back from the game. And uh, yeah and ride back from the game or, no not ride to the game but ride back, they'll come and park at the hotel that we're at and then they'll, they'll, they'll hop on. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A You recall any for this specific game? Uh only one I can remember is, I know Phil was there and um you know ... (CORPORAL SEGREAVES) Q A Do you know Phil's last name sir? Phillip uh, ex drum major, Phillip Solomon. (DETECTIVE PHELAN) Q A And he had his family with him. He had his, yeah he had his son and his uh wife there, they, they sat, like they actually sat across from me that's why I remember them. Um ... Q A What about uh fra, uh, like um alumnus, other alumnus other than him, uh ... Yeah that's what I was trying to think, I, if they were they were in the back and um, I can't even think of who else rode that bus, I can't think of, I don't think it was too many but I know it probably was a few, okay uh because it's uh, it always happens. Either they're there or they'll meet us at the gate. Q A Meet us at the gate. You know and, and, and try to get in that way. But uh I can't remember um, I know I, that's alii know is him cause behind them was some freshmen so ... Q Okay. 10 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1 01834NW/12/13/11 1 A Q ... Iike uh if anybody else was on there they probably were in the back. Okay. Alright uh you, raise your right hand for me. Yes sir. Do you swear and or affirm that the statement you just gave is the truth? Yes sir. Okay thank you very much sir. Alright thank you. 2 3 A Q 4 5 6 7 A Q A 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURANCY Signed this;3 day of ..ItL~ ,2012. ,~~. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1018341YW/12/13/11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 Tony LeaVelle/Case #11-1018341YW/12/13/11 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JEFFREY MANNING CONDUCTED BY CORPORAL JASON MCMULLEN CASE 11-11-101834 2 3 4 5 6 Q. Detective McMullen Agent Jeff Duncan Jeffrey Manning JD. A. 7 8 9 10 11 (Inaudible background conversation ... ) Today is December th 2011 at 10:09, Corporal Jason McMullen from the Orange County Sheriffs Office and ... 12 13 14 JD. Special Agent Jeff Duncan from FDLE. Talking to Jeffrey Manning and we're located at, located at the Florida FMU University Police Department. Um, what's your birthday Jeffrey? 15 16 Q. 17 18 19 A. Q. 01/01/86. And is the 2014 (inaudible) Road is your correct address. Yes Sir. (Inaudible ... ). Um, and obviously the reason we're talking to you today is because we're investigating the Robert Champion incident (over talking) ... 20 21 A. Q. 22 23 24 25 A. Q. (Inaudible ... ). . .. and your name was on the bus list the ... for "Bus C" (over talking). 1 Manning, Jeffrey/11-1 01834/12-15-12/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Yeah, that's ah, that's, that's what I was saying, that's ... I'm on the bus, but been that I'm on the bus I knew I was going to call down. Q. A. Oh ... I told my girl, I was like what, I said been that my name is on that list. .. Q. A. JO. (Laugh ... ). . .. they're going to call me then. Right. I said okay that's, that's what I'm prepared for, I got evidence (inaudible over talking) ... A. JO. No that's cool. . .. (Inaudible ... ) there. The, the only thing we're ... I understand yo weren't there for that incident. A. JO. A. JO. Yeah. You know what I mean, is a bigger picture (inaudible) other than Mr. Champion passing away. A. JO. Yeah. Um, and I want to ... this is a voluntary ... Yeah. ... statement by you. Yeah. Um, (inaudible) you'd understand, you don't have to give us one. Yeah. A. JO. A. JO. A. 2 Manning, Jeffrey/11-1 01834112-15-12/05 1 JO. You're, you're free to go any time, but our involvement as State Police is you get a little bit more information because the ... you seen the news, I'm sure. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A. JO. Yeah. The whole incident is getting blown way out there (over talking) ... I, I, (inaudible over talking). ... and we got, we got to (inaudible) back in. Yeah. So, I know you provided documentation (inaudible) not been. Uh huh (affirmative). You are only on the bus list but... Okay. ... can you give me a little ... how long you've been in the band? I've been in the band since 09, 2009. Are you familiar with the hot seat and the crossing over and all of that (over talking)? A. JO. A. JO. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. JO. A. JO. A. JO. A. I don't know, I don't, I don't (inaudible) I guess. The only thing I do is when I go on the bus, I sit down and listen to my music and do my homework ... 20 21 22 JO. Uh. A. ... or watch TV. We have movies on the bus and we watch movies, play little games, whatever but as far as a hot seat I don't know what that is. 23 24 25 JO. You've never been through it? (No verbal response ... ). A. 3 . Manning, Jeffrey/11-101834/12-15-12/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JO. You ride "Bus C"? Yeah, I'm on the list. Are you aware of ah, the ... ? I was aware of what it was, but I mean no. You're not going to do it? I never experienced it because I was always the type that just get on the bus, listen to my music and not Acknowledge whatever. A. JO. A. JO. A. JO. And is there, is there a separation in the band? And, and hear me all the way through this. I know you got strings, percussion (Inaudible) or whatever you got, not that type of separation. Is there a separation among band members in totality that (inaudible) agreed with tradition in these activities and part do not, don't want anything to do with it? A. I mean (inaudible) ah, (inaudible) like I said it's been around for a long time. JO. Right. Things happen, you know what I'm saying things happen but my, my family members aunts, uncles, grandfather everybody so I mean ... and it is not just for the hundred (inaudible) what you're talking about. .. ' A. JO. Um hum (affirmative). .., is the (inaudible) organization as far as school, you know what I'm saying (over talking). A. JO. Right. 4 Manning, Jeffrey/11-101834/12-15-12/0S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Every, every ... no matter what you do is going to be a hazing situation. JD. A. Right. As (inaudible) football, basketball, soccer, whatever, you know the new guy that. .. JD. A. JD. A. I agree. . .. that (inaudible) do things, that's mentally hazing. Right. You know what I'm saying? So I mean as far as your situation, what you're talking about, I mean is really nothing different, is the same thing we (Inaudible). If, if you decide to go, you know what I'm saying, do what you do that is you. But honestly speaking, I mean Doctor White has preached every day, every day, he take people out every day about that. JD. A. Right. So is not about, you know what I'm saying ah, um ... , what's the word for it? JD. A. JD. A. JD. A. JD. A. Doctor White has zero tolerance on it, but. .. Yeah (inaudible over talking). ... if that's your thing and family tradition and you (over talking) ... Yeah I mean ... ... continue with it, then you (over talking) ... That's what we ... (over talking) ... (Inaudible ... ) then you go through it. That's, that's on you. 5 Manning, Jeffreyl11-101834112-15-1210S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JD. If you don't want to, you don't. Yeah if you, you want to suffer the consequences behind it, he can preach and you know what's the con ... , consequences behind it that's on you. So if you decide to do what you do, hey you're a grown man. A. JD. Um hum (affirmative). This is not a High School, this is not a middle school, is a, is a college. A. JD. Okay. Is there a higher hierarchy of personnel on "Bus C"? No everybody is equal. There's no leader? No leader, everybody is equal. I mean if you've been in the band before me, of course you ... (Inaudible ... ) got high ranking, but as far as ... I mean if you ... everybody is equal we as one (inaudible). A. JD. A. JD. There's, there's nobody that directs anybody ... No. ... there's no specific person on the bus? (Inaudible ... ) have James, he is a ... he is he um, (inaudible) ... Um hum (affirmative). . .. that's it, he just, he decides what we ... as far as like tell everybody to be quiet, if we get too loud he is like alright everybody be quiet. Other than that, no. A. JD. A. JD. A. JD. But. .. since I'm focusing on what's been classed by is hazing, until is proven in, in court and a" that. .. A. Yeah. 6 Manning, Jeffrey/11-1 01834112-15-12/05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JO. ... good stuff. But if I went looking into that... and I know you're not involved in that side ... A. JO. Uh huh (affirmative). ... but you're aware that, that happened ... Uh huh (affirmative). ... and that's their business. Uh huh (affirmative). (Inaudible ... ) who would direct that? Personally I really don't know. Because you don't get involved. Because I don't get involved. Okay. Where do you seat on the bus? I seat wherever I want to seat, I can seat in the front, I can seat in back, I can seat in middle, wherever I decide where I want to seat. Sometimes I sit right where the TV is at and I watch TV. A. JO. A. JO. A. JO. A. JO. Q. A. JO. (Inaudible ... ) up front? Ah, no the TV is be all like through the bus (inaudible) like four or five TV's. Sometimes I seat in the middle. A. JO. How many trips do you think you've been on "Bus C"? Um, about. .. I'll say three, four about three or four. And you've never seen the ... No. ... (Inaudible ... ) you've never seen anybody (inaudible over talking)? A. JO. A. JO. 7 Manning, Jeffrey/11-1 01834112-15-12/05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Because when I go to the bus, I grab my comforter, I grab my head phones, like I said if I'm doing homework, I.do my ... the homework and that's it. If they playing games or they talking loud or whatever, I probably join them in the crowd when they're talking loud or whatever. .. JD. Right. .., when they have like discussion or debate or something, I get on that, but other than that no. A. JD. Did you know Robert Champion? Yeah, he was a good guy. What, what was his attitude (inaudible) of course I can't talk to him, I didn't know him? A. JD. A. JD. (Inaudible over talking ... ). What was his attitude toward hazing? Um, personally I don't know his personal attitude towards hazing, but ah, ah, as far as a person, know him personal; I didn't know him in person, I, I knew him once I got in the band. A. JD. Right. And he was the type of guy that he just became drum major, so you know what I'm saying ... well he was playing clarinet (inaudible). A. JD. Um hum (affirmative). .., (Inaudible ... ) whatever but um, his type of guy was, he was cool; you know what I'm saying. A. JD. Uh huh (affirmative). 8 Manning, JeffreyI11-101834112-15-1210S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. He got respect, you tell him ... he tell you to do something yo do it because he is not the type of drum major or the type of guy that he would be like, like oh you (inaudible) what are you doing (inaudible) what is it. No he'll be the type the guy that would like you, you need to tighten up you know what I'm saying ah (inaudible) help (over talking). JD. So instead of been the historicaL .. Yeah. ... jerk on the band because I'm been there (over talking) ... Yeah he was he was the guy ... ... he was more respectful towards you. He more respectful, more respectful, you know what I'm saying, he, he was a good guy. A. JD. A. JD. A. JD. Okay. You got anything (inaudible)? If... I know you had your baby and everything but. .. Yeah. ... is anybody going to say that they saw you on the bus or saw you in Orlando? Q. A. Q. A. I mean if they saw me in Orlando (over talking) ... (Inaudible ... ). . .. someone (inaudible) lie because I have proof that I wasn't there. And you guys have proof. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. So (over talking). I, I, I'm not saying that. .. Q. 9 Manning, Jeffrey/11-1 01834112-15-12/05 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. (Inaudible ... ). ... you been dishonest with us, I just want to make sure that nobody is going to ... Q. A. Oh no, yeah they're going to (inaudible over talking). ... nobody is going to dispute (over talking) ... (Inaudible ... )... ... what you're saying to us (over talking). . .. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm going to right now ... I'm percussion and I play my drum and if I'm not there people notice. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Okay. You know what I'm saying (over talking). So, so they're going to know you're missing (over talking). People are going to miss me. Okay. So .. . And .. . ... and plus I play in the middle so and middle person plays the loudest so if I'm not there they're going to know, okay but where's this guy, oh he, he didn't come because (inaudible). Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. If you were there would you've been on the field during (inaudible) show? A. Yeah, I would've been on the field. Okay. Yeah. I mean I'm a vet so, I would've been there. Q. A. 10 Manning, Jeffrey/11-101834/12-15-12/0S 1 Q. Okay. Because not everybody that goes, goes on the field right (over talking). 2 3 4 A. Q. A. Yeah everybody don't go on the field. Okay. If you don't, if you (inaudible) and yo don't make it, you sit on the side line. 5 6 7 Q. Okay. You just (Inaudible) so (laugh). Alright (laugh ... ). That's awards. Alright. You have anything else? (Inaudible ... ). Can you raise your right hand for me? You swear everything you told us today it's true? 8 9 A. Q. 10 11 A. Q. 12 JD. Q. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. Q. Positive. Alright. And we're ending interview at 10: 18 hours. THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY Signed this 20 21 q:.. day of ,>>Y//~- , 2012. 22 23 24 DETECTIVE David Phelan, OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF ~ 25 11 Manning, Jeffreyl11-1 01834112-15-12105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 Manning, Jeffrey/11-1 01834112-15-12/05 1 TRANSCRIPT OF TAPED INTERVIEW OF JELANI MARKS DETECTIVE DAVID A. PHELAN CASE NUMBER 11-101834 RECORDED DECEMBER 7, 2011 TYPED DECEMBER 14, 2011 2 3 4 5 6 7 Okay, today is Wednesday, December the 7th , 2011, the time is now 1 :30 p.m. I'm 8 Detective David A. Phelan Orange County Sheriffs Office Criminal Investigation 9 10 11 12 Division. Also present is FAMU Police Department.. Investigator (IC) Cotton, Cotton. And we're here at the FAMU Police Department in reference to a death of Robert Champion. And we're here speaking with? Ah, Jelani Marks .. Mr. Marks, ah, you understand that we are looking into the death of Robert ... Mr. Robert Champion, right? Yes sir. Okay. And ah, you understand that you are .. explain to you that you are not under any obligation to give a statement if you do not wish to. Okay. You're free to leave at anytime. You're not under arrest. Okay you understand that? Yes sir. Okay. And ah, you un .. you ah, know that, understand that this is being recorded, right? 1 Jelani Marks/Case #11-1 01834/GB 1 A Q Yes sir. Okay. Um, you are a student here at FAMU? Yes sir. Okay and what year are you in? I'm in my third year. Third year. Okay and um, are you a member of the band? Yes sir. Okay and you march all three years? Yes sir. Okay. Um, you are assigned to ride "Bus C" to out of.. out of.. out of. away games? 2 3 A Q 4 5 6 A Q 7 A 8 9 10 Q A Q 11 12 13 14 A Q Yes sir. Okay and on this particular incident back on the 18 17th th , I guess y'alJ rode up on the 15 16 17 18 19 or 18th , which would been that day before the game. Ah, did you ride "Bus C" that day? A Q Yes sir. I coming here, coming up? Okay. And I guess that Friday night y'all had a um, battle of the bands? 20 A 21 Yes sir that Friday and then Saturday was the, was the football game. Okay Friday night did you ride the "Bus C" to the battle of the bands? Yes sir. And did you ride it back after the battle of the band? Yes sir. 22 23 Q A Q 24 25 A 2 Jelani Marks/Case #11-101834/GB 1 Q Okay during the ride back.. Where do you sit on the bus? Um, closer to the front. Okay. Ah, during the ride back from the battle of the bands did you ah, happen to hear any commotion that may have sounded like ah, fighting or hitting of anyone? 2 3 4 A Q 5 6 7 A Q No sir I actually had ah, headphones and the most.. the majority of the time. Okay. Are you familiar with the ah, "Bus C" tradition of ah, hot seats and crossing over? 8 9 10 11 12 A I've heard the term hot seat before. But I, I don't know first hand of what exactly it is. Q Okay. So, with that being said that was my next question, have you gone through the process of the crossing over? 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A Q No sir I don't, I don't get involved in that. Okay. Okay. Ah, then after the ah, after you returned to the hotel after the ah, battle of the bands did you remain on the bus or did you get off and go back to your room? A Q I got off the bus when we got to the hotel. Okay. And ah, do you know any.. anyone that remained at the bus? Ah, no sir. Okay. Ah, the next day which would have been Saturday did you ride the bus to the game? 20 A 21 22 Q 23 24 A Q Yes sir. And then you, after the game did you ride the bus back to the hotel? 25 3 Jelani Marks/Case #11?101834/GB Yes sir. And after getting back to the hotel did you remain on the bus or did you go to your room? I went to my room on the fourth floor. Um, I went there with ah, with Jermaine Scott. It was the (Inaudible) ... in another room. Okay. And .. you have no personal knowledge of what occurred on "Bus C" after you and Jermaine got back? No .. Got back? No sir. And what is your thought about this ah, this um, activities that re going on, on "Bus C"? I mean what have you heard about it? Well, I mean to the, to the sober minded people it's just a bus. Right. But um, like I said, I sit closer towards the front so, I don't really know exactly what these other people are doing. Uh-huh. (Affirmative) I don't know exactly who was doing it. You know everything .. everything that happens would have to happen behind me. And ah, I think it's ah, I think it's personally crazy. I don't get involved in that. Right. 4 Jelani Marks/Case #11-101834/GB 1 A Um, I usually keep to myself on the bus. Jermaine and I we have a lot in common so, we usually just ah, we either do homework listening to music or ah, talk to one another. But I don't.. I don't get involved in, in the whole process. 2 3 4 5 6 Q Okay. You got anything? (INVESTIGATOR COTTON) Q Is there .. (Inaudible) .. you sit, you sit closer to the front of the bus? Nah, there's no particular reason. So, it's not assigned according to which year you're in or if you gone through the process of things that the ritual "Bus C" ritual. A Well it's not a assigned, but what I will say is that I would assume that any.. any type of, any type of anything that goes on the bus what happens was the back. And since I don't get involved in that I tend to stay away from that area. Q The ah, people, you know the people that kind of sit generally around you on "Bus C"? I mean is it the same group of people or do they alternate? A It's not always the same group. But like I said before, I usually sit near Jermaine Scott and ah, Jordan Rochester's usually somewhere in that area too. Q Okay. No further questions. (Inaudible) ... 7 A 8 9 Q 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 (DETECITVE PHELAN) 20 Q 21 Okay. Raise your right hand fort me. Do you swear and or affirm that the statement you just gave is the truth, the whole truth? 22 23 24 25 A Q Yes sir. We thank you. Yeah no problem. A 5 Jelani Marks/Case #11-101834/GB 1 THIS TRANSCRIPT HAS BEEN REVIEWED FOR ACCURACY 2 Signed thisLday of JttlrCt-.-. ,2012. : 5 6 DETECT~tdli. OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 Jelani Marks/Case #11-101834/GB 1 AC: Yeah (affirmative), at any time you get to a point you don't want to talk to me anymore you just, we're just trying to get information, okay? You're not under arrest or anything. 2 3 4 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Okay. Okay. Uhm, okay, so this is your second season? Uh-hum (affirmative). What's the part you play? I play uhm, percussion snare. (Inaudible.) Percussion snare? Okay. And what bus do you normally ride to go to those .... Uhm, last year I rode H. This year is was naturally they put us on C because that's where percussion was. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Okay. And you did go to the game, right? Yeah (affirmative), I did go to the game. Okay. And you got to play out on the field? Uh-hum (affirmative). Okay. So uhm, after the game did you uhm, how'd you get back to the hotel? I rode the bus. Okay. But as soon as I got back uhm, my mom was texting me. I have text messages and everything time, reporting the times. My mom was texting me so I could go to the plaza across the street with her like to Hooters and the, the shops and the clubs. Because she got some shoes for me and stuff. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AC: CM: AC: Uh-hum (affirmative). So I was there until about.... What time'd you guys get back roughly? Do you remember? 2 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 CM: AC: CM: We got back, it was close to nine. It was close to nine. It wasn't late at all. Okay. But what did, did you uh, after you got there what did you do? I got, I got straight off the bus. I went to my hotel, put on a jacket and I went across the street. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AC: CM: DP: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Okay, so what time did you uh, meet your mom, roughly? Uhm, I'll trying to get back to it. Uhm .... You went to your room and changed now? Yeah (affirmative). What room are you staying in? Uhm, 420. And how were you staying with? I was staying with Wayne Kind and .... Wayne King? Yeah (affirmative). And who else? And Ryan Richards. Ryan Richards. Okay. Did they go with you? Yeah (affirmative), we were all together. I mean did they go shopping with you? No. I went to, I went to the hotel mall first and I got uh, things for my people. And there was uh, that was their last time seeing me before I went home for break. Then I came back to the hotel, got dressed, and then we, me, Ryan and Wayne went to Hooters. DP: You say you went with your mother to the mall? 3 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 CM: Yeah (affirmative). Uhm, they were already there and they were waiting on me. So I kind of, I kind of rushed off. I'm having a hard time finding times, hum. But November 19th uhm, "We are at the shopping plaza where the movies is. Come and get your shoes as soon as you can so we can go to our hotel." So I was rushing to, I was saying, "The traffic's bad and we just arrived." And then that was after the fact that everything happen. 2 3 4 5 6 7 DP: CM: DP: CM: AC: CM: DP: CM: Okay, you (unintelligible) that with a certain time. I was .... Match it. Uh, message details. Yeah (affirmative), I know. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 8:26, but see it was around .... 8:26 (inaudible). It was around nine. Weill was, I was saying, I thinking close to nine. I was thinking like eight (inaudible). 15 16 17 AC: CM: AC: DP: CM: DP: CM: DP: CM: DP: Okay, so this is .... It was right when I got off the bus. Okay. (Inaudible) .... Yeah (affirmative). ... that'd be like the proper time (inaudible) .... Yeah (affirmative), that was right when I got there. .... eight-thirty. And then ... Eight-twenty-six you uh, is when you .... 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CM: Yeah (affirmative). ... text your mom and said you .... When I said we just arrived and I got off the bus. What's your cell number? My cell? Yeah (affirmative). DP: CM: DP: C: DP: CM: 954-300 ... Okay. DP: CM: ... 7314. How long you had this cell? I had this cell only for a few months. Uhm, like three months from, like three months or something. DP: CM: AC: What's your mom's uhm, what's your, who are you talking to? Are you talking to your mom's cell? CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Yeah (affirmative). What's her number? Uhm, it is on (inaudible). Okay. 954 ... Uh-hum (affirmative). ... 873-2331. And that's her cell number? Uh-hum (affirmative). What's your, your home phone number for your mom? Oh, uhm .... 5 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 AC: CM: AC: CM: (Laughs.) You got to .... I don't know if I have that. What if it's an emergency. Because we stay, we stay in different, we stay in different houses. I stay with my grandma. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Oh, okay. My grandma was there too if you guys want her number. Okay. Uhm, yeah (affirmative), what's your grandma's number? 954 ... 10 Uh-hum (affirmative). ... 240-2182. And what's her name? Dorothy Major. Dorothy Major. Uhm .... And what's your, I'm sorry, what was your mom's name? Jamarra. J? A-M-A-R-R-A. Henderson, H-E-N-D-E-R. ... S-O-N? Uh-hum (affirmative). Okay. Alright. So when did you hear about what happened? I heard about what happened when we were at Hooters, around, my friend called me, uh, it, it had to be around like eleven; ten-thirty, eleven. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UM: Okay. And uhm, (inaudible). 6 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 CM: ... 1mean the word was going around. They didn't know exactly (inaudible), but around twelve it was, everybody was, it, it was a mess. (Inaudible.) AC: CM: AC: CM: When did you come back to the hotel? I came back to the hotel (sighs) .... Roughly. Oh, man. I came back to the hotel around like four-forty-five because I didn't want to be at the hotel because everybody was crying and all, everything was happening and I called my, my mom. Because I was like you know, I don't feel like riding back to Tallahassee with the band because there's too much going on. The bus ride will be too sad. And my people were in town in Orlando. So, I stayed with uhm, another friend because they, they had rode here I mean to, they had rode to Orlando with the school and they stayed in a different hotel. So I stayed with them untiL ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: So you didn't go back to the hoteL .. Uhm ..... ... that night? ... 1went back to the hotel to get my stuff. Okay. Did you completely leave from the hoteL .... Yeah (affirmative). ... at that point? Uh-hum (affirmative). Okay. So you went back about one-forty-five? Uh-hum (affirmative). And left? And my people were at the hotel. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: DP: Okay. What hotel did you end up staying at? Uhm, I was, I was, I didn't, the, the one, the one I visited with my friend? Yeah (affirmative). It was Embassy Suites. Embassy Suites? Uh-hum (affirmative). And where was that at? Uhm, I do not know. It's, it's down the, it was down the street. On that same drive? Yeah (affirmative), the same drive. Okay. The same drive. Okay, got you. So it wasn't really far? Yeah (affirmative), it wasn't that far. Did somebody have to come pick you up or ... No, I, I walked. Oh, okay. It wasn't that far. Just for time purposes uh, you went to the mall. Did you purchase anything that the uh, mall (inaudible). 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 CM: DP: CM: DP: AC: Huh-huh (negative). Okay. Well ... The only time I purchased was when I went to eat with my mom (inaudible). And that was at Smokey Bones? That would be at Hooters. 23 24 25 8 McKay, Charles/Case #11-1 01834/GG 1 DP: (Inaudible.) Okay, and the uhm, stores that you went to in the mall where did you go? 2 3 4 5 CM: Uhm, I didn't really. But we were buying the, it was like a, it's like a natural soap and body, body shop my mom were, were shopping (inaudible) and it was by the, it was uhm, we were, we went by the movies too because my family was over there. 6 7 AC: CM: So did, where did you go to pick up your shoes at? Uhm, the, it's like a natural body shop. I forgot the name. But it was in, it was by (sighs), it was, it was the same isle with the movies I think. 8 9 10 11 12 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: DP: And what, what mall is this that you went to? It wasn't really a mall. It was like a plaza. It was, I forget the name. Was it on I-Drive? Yeah (affirmative). It's, it was the one across from the hotel. So when you walk, if you walk straight out of the hotel did you go left or right? Like it's, it's a little left. It wasn't much. A little left? Okay. Yeah (affirmative). It wasn't much. Okay. So what, what do you know about the tradition on "Bus C"? I mean I know, for percussion it is just the natural bus you go on, but.. .. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Uhm, we are, for our purposes of talking about "Bus C" we're not talking about the bus that you rode to the game on. We're talking about "Bus C" after hours activity that is occurring with the uh, ritual type activity, okay? 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CM: DP: (Inaudible) .... Has anyone, has, in your knowledge do you know what happens on "Bus C"? 9 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 CM: AC: Uhm, to tell you the truth I don't deal with that mess. And .... So what did you, so when you say you don't deal with that mess have, have you, have you ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 CM: AC: CM: Like any, anything .... ... have you gone through it? Have you been approached to go through it? I just, I just, I just, I just sat on the bus and got there and did uh, did what I need to. Uh, I don't like, I don't like that hazing stuff. AC: CM: (Inaudible.) So and when I got to the hotel I got straight off the bus. I don't know anything about that. 10 11 DP: Yeah (affirmative). What we're saying is have you been through the ritual part of "Bus C" that occurs on "Bus C?" Have you personally been through it? 12 13 AC: Uh, uh, you're not in trouble for that, okay? This is, that's, that's past. When'd you go through it? 14 15 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Well .... Roughly. How long ago was it? I, I really couldn't tell you. Like uhm .... Well you've only been on the thing for two years. Was it this year? It was, it was just this year. Okay. So what game did you go to? (Sighs.) Uhm .... Was it Atlanta? No, it wasn't Atlanta. It was uh, S... South Carolina game. South Carolina game? So that, that was in October, right? Yeah (affirmative). 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: Okay. So tell me how it happened? What goes on? Uhm ... Who brings you onto the bus? I mean you just, you're just kind of on there and they .... Did you get injured? Uhm, no, not like that. Well uh, uh, if you could describe to me what did you feel like when you went through? After you got through. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 CM: AC: It was, it was just kind of a tousle going through it. Yeah (affirmative). People trying to hold you and stuff? Yeah (affirmative), just somewhat like that. But. ... Were you hit with anything that you know of? Uhm, no. Anybody ever use anything, uh, like uh, musical instruments .... No. ... sticks or anything else like that? How about uhm .... What'd you say? Tousle. A tousle. (Inaudible.) Well would it be fair to say that people were punching you? I mean not seriously, no, nobody was really punching me. Okay, well, so what are they doing? I mean .... I mean it was .... DP: CM: DP: CM: AC: CM: AC: DP: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: 22 23 24 25 11 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 AC: CM: Tousling is .... .,. it was, it was .... To me tousling is you're holding on to .... Yeah (affirmative). You're on a bus. Uh, you're not going to be able to tousle. You know, I mean, you're, what, what's the object of the, when you went on there? 3 4 5 AC: CM: AC: 6 7 8 9 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: I meanjust.. .. What's the object? I guess just to reach uhm, I guess just to reach the back. Okay. So you get, you get on the front of the bus and then ... Yeah (affirmative) . ... you got to reach the back? And once you get to the back is, what happens after that? 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AC: CM: AC: DP: It's like hey, you reached the back of the bus (inaudible). Okay. You're, you're accepted now? Huh? You're accepted in? I guess yeah (affirmative), something like that, yeah (affirmative). (inaudible.) So who, who, who runs this? Uhm, uh, they, there's nobody really that, that runs it. Well who is like alright, let's just be particular on your situation. Who was there running, getting this done (inaudible). How many, how many people involved? AC: DP: CM: DP: AC: CM: AC: 12 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CM: I don't, I don't, I don't know all that. There's like they, they didn't, like I'm young, so they don't really (inaudible). DP: Okay, that's fine. That's fine (inaudible). Uhm, okay. Did you have to go to someone to go through this procedure, or did, did you, they ask you did someone come in and say you have an opportunity to do this? CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: Nobody really came. Nobody really came to me. It's more like (inaudible). Yeah (affirmative), but how'd you know to do it then? Why is that game .... Uh, I, I d ... uh, huh, to tell you the truth .... I mean somebody had to, some .... ".1 really don't know. Somebody had to come say that as opposed to this game, why did you do it this game? You know what I'm saying? CM: AC: CM: DP: CM: DP: CM: DP: Uh-hum (affirmative). Somebody said like okay man, it's your time. Who came to you and said okay? It was, it was, it was more like okay .. " You ride the bus (inaudible). Huh? You ride the bus right? Uh-hum (affirmative). Every day, every day this year you rode the bus in. So how many of these games do you think they actually had a ritual on the bus? CM: DP: (Inaudible - static.) How many games you actually think they had the ritual on "Bus C" this year? Uhm, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you. More than .. " eM: DP: 13 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 CM: Because we weren't.. .. 2 3 DP: CM: ... more than (inaudible). ... we weren't, I wasn't on the bus like that. Like I said .... Right. You're not allowed to be on there if you're not (inaudible). I mean yeah (affirmative), something like that. Okay, but well you got to make it as clear as to what exactly is. So after you do that are you now able to participate in the next one? 4 5 6 DP: CM: AC: 7 8 9 CM: AC: Uhm, yeah (affirmative). Okay. Did you? Huh-huh (negative). Did you ever participate in another one? 10 11 CM: AC: 12 CM: AC: No. Why not? I don't know, it just not me. I don't, I just, I guess I just went through it and you know what I'm saying .... 13 14 CM: 15 16 17 AC: Uh-hum (affirmative). CM: ... sat down and I'm not really that type of person to make a big deal of. But I didn't partake in .... 18 19 DP: CM: And uh .... 20 21 22 .,. anything after. ... DP: CM: ." .on the 19th after you got back .... Uh-hum (affirmative). 23 24 DP: CM: ., .. did you participate in uhm, a ritual that included Robert (inaudible). Huh-huh (negative). I told y'alll was with my people. Okay, that's what I'm saying ... 25 DP: 14 McKay, Charles/Case #11-1018341GG 1 2 CM: DP: The .... .... that's, that's a direct question (inaudible). Okay. We're not going to have you on video coming from that bus after nine-thirty, nine o'clock, nine-thirty that night? 3 4 5 CM: DP: Huh-huh (negative). Huh-huh (negative). Okay. We're not going to have you on video in that parking lot after nine, ninethirty that night by, by the buses? 6 7 8 9 CM: DP: CM: Nope (negative). Okay. Because I got straight off like I said and went to the other side over by the (inaudible). 10 11 12 13 14 AC: DP: CM: DP: CM: DP: Okay. Weill know I got you on video. I know I got you on video. Okay. I saw you on video. So, I'm telling you that. Okay. You got me on video that night? Oh, coming from the buses? I got you on video coming inside the hotel at nine something. It looked like you came from the buses. 15 16 17 18 19 CM: DP: CM: DP: CM: DP: CM: Yeah (affirmative), me (unintelligible). Dr. White, Dr. White even looked at the video and Dr. uh .... Uh, huh .... ... what's the uh ... You got... Yes sir. ... you got me on video coming in the busses? 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 DP: Yes sir. Look like you. (Inaudible.) Yeah (affirmative), I got them right here I think. I'm uh, I'm going to give you an opportunity to see it. That's (inaudible). 2 3 4 CM: You probably got me at eight-thirty, but I wasn't I wasn't with the busses. I wasn't with the bus. I got off the bus .... 5 6 7 AC: CM: AC: Okay. Went upstairs. I went out the other side. Because you know, you realize the, the other part of this is to confirm what you, what you were doing. So we're supporting what you were doing ... 8 9 CM: AC: Right. ... you know, in, in addition. What do they call that when you run through the, the bus thing? What's that? 10 11 12 13 14 15 DP: CM: AC: CM: AC: DP: CM: AC: Yeah (affirmative), they got a name for that yet? I don't even know. It's not really a name. Well what, what, how'd you know what it was? I mean just go, it's like a go through it, or if you want call it a cross or.... I mean what'd they tell you so you knew that's what you were supposed to do? So they would call it a crossing over? I guess, yeah (affirmative). And did you have to prepare? I mean what, when you go down there what, what, what are you supposed to dress in? 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CM: AC: CM: AC: Uhm ... Do you have to have your uniform on? No, no, no. It's nothing really dressing. Do you have to take your shirt off or. ... 16 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 CM: Uhm, people, people, people sometimes yeah (affirmative), sometimes no. It's usually .... 2 3 AC: Well let me, okay, let me, what did you do when you did it? Did you have your shirt on? 4 5 CM: AC: Uhm, I had a tank top on. You had a tank top on? Okay. So is it fair to say that the uh, the drum majors were the ones that were .... 6 7 8 9 DP: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: (Inaudible.) ... conducting that when you went through? No. They, I don't think they, uh, I don't think (inaudible). Well who would have been on the bus? I don't, I don't know. See, but you got to do, you're doing very well, and. you're telling us the truth. And you got to make sure, don't cover up for anybody else, okay? 10 11 12 13 14 15 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: I'm not trying to cover up for anybody else. Okay. I, I just don't know because I wasn't there. No, at the one that you went to. You were there for that one. Uh, I just.... And it was on "Bus C". It was, who was the bus driver then? That. ... The same one was this, this, this uh .... That.... ... this trip? Too long a time. I don't.. .. 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: It's only October (chuckles). I don't remember. Was it am ... a male or female? I don't remember. Because if I ask them and they say yeah (affirmative), the bus driver, and then he says yeah (affirmative), I was there and .... CM: AC: I really wouldn't be able to tell you. You, on, on the South Carolina game you don't know if it was a male or female driving? CM: AC: Huh-huh (negative), I forgot. (Inaudible) is the bus running at the time? And we didn't bring the ones inside the hotel. These are the ones outside. You got me inside the hotel now? You know any of those? (Coughs.) Huh-huh (negative). Huh-huh (negative). Who's that that you see in there? You recognize who it is. Who is it? I think .... Who's the guy in the, who's the guy in the white? I can't (inaudible). Well you know who that guys is. (Inaudible.) Huh-huh (negative). I don't know. There's two people that size. Hmm? There's two people that size in the band. And all are tubas. DP: CM: DP: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: DP: CM: AC: CM: DP: 18 McKay, Charles/Case #11-1 018341GG 1 CM: Yeah (affirmative). Uh, that's what I saying, like the tubas are that size. But I, like I said .... 2 3 4 DP: CM: AC: I'll check the time and I'll let you know. I'll call you and let you know. I got straight off the bus. I wasn't there. You can ask my people. No, okay. Okay. Uh, that's, that I'm pretty, we're sure. We want to make sure that we confirm and you know, and support what you have to say. 5 6 7 CM: AC: Okay. But look at me. You know, you're avoiding my question as to who the bus driver. Why answering what the bus driver was? You think they're going to get them in trouble? 8 9 10 11 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: I, uh, (laughs), I want to tell you but I just don't, I don't remember. You don't remember ... I don't .... ... if a male or a female? ... if it, it was (sighs), you have a multiple. It wasn't just. ... No, and all I'm worried about is "Bus C." That drove our bus? Right. To the South Carolina game. Yeah (affirmative). Did, did you ride on "Bus C" to the South Carolina game? Yeah (affirmative), all this (inaudible). Okay. Uhm, the uhm, was the bus on when you in your South Carolina when you did yours, was the bus running? 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CM: DP: Uhm ... (Coughs.) 19 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: DP: AC: ... 1, mine .... Were the lights on? I don't uhm, I don't think the lights were on. You don't think they .... No. Uhm ... Okay. So how'd you feel afterwards? I was alright. I mean you didn't.. .. I was alright. ... get dizzy or anything? Not really, no. No? Did you, how about uh, how badly were you bruised? I wasn't, I wasn't bruised badly at all. Anyone particular thing hurt more than the other? (Coughs.) So, is it fair to say that, how's the hierarchy go in the, and how many people were marked in your. .. UM: AC: UM: CM: AC: CM: AC: UM: Okay .... ... roughly? Over a dozen? But it was November of last year of. .. I don't know. Because uh, you, I wasn't paying attention to that (laughs). (Laughs.) Oh, I know, I know (unintelligible). It was like I don't (unintelligible). Well when looked up when you first started, you know, when you first.... Okay. 20 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: UM: CM: UM: AC: CM: AC: ... Iook up and you head down the, the a ... ofthe aisle, how many people .... Uhm ... ... ifyou gave an estimate? I couldn't, I couldn't tell you. Would it be more than six? Okay. Okay. I don't know. Thank you so much. Would there be fifty? No, it was, huh-huh (negative). Not that many. Okay, so now you have a number in your mind. Just tell me what the number is. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 CM: AC: DP: AC: DP: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: Uhm, (inaudible). Roughly. Approximately. Twenty? No. Less? Fifteen? What number? Maybe like ten. Ten? Something like that. Okay. And how many of them would be uh, the drum majors? Usually drum majors (inaudible) from what, from what I've seen. But. ... I'm just talking about your particular case (inaudible). There wasn't, there wasn't any. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: (Inaudible.) There wasn't any. Okay. Anything else? Uhm, I already got, it's just, huh, everything going on. No, no, I know, and I appreciate. Here, I just want to say the statement that you just gave me, do you swear that that's the truth and nothing but the truth? 2 3 4 5 6 7 CM: AC: Uh-hum (affirmative). Okay. If necessary, if I needed to come back and ask you the exact same thing, would you be willing to tell me the same answers? 8 9 10 11 CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: AC: CM: DP: UM: Yeah (affirmative). Okay. Alright. Well thank you much man. I appreciate your time. Alright. Thank you. Okay, thank you man. Okay. Alright. Alright. Uh, (inaudible) FDLE guy? Yeah (affirmative), he just called me. He wanted to see if you guys needed anything. He said (unintelligible). 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 AC: UM: AC: UM: Okay, we're going to .... Uh, I told him .... ... end the interview at 10:35 .... ... (inaudible) uhm, (inaudible). End of recorded statement. This transcript has been reviewed for accuracy. 22 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG 1 2 3 4 5 DETECTIVE DAVID A. PHELAN OCSO DEPUTY SHERIFF 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 McKay, Charles/Case #11-101834/GG