Clinton Presidential Records Mandatory Declassification Review This is not a presidential record. This is used as an administrative marker by the William J. Clinton Presidential Library Staff. Documents from this Mandatory Declassification Review were released in full or released in part. Those documents released with redactions have been restricted under Sections 1.4 (b) and (d) of E.O. 13526. 3087 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON 1.0 I MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATICN SUBJECT: Telcon with ~abour Party Leader and Prime Minister-elect Tony Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Mr. Blair Notetakers: Natalie Johnson, Marc Koehler and Marian~a Papadimitriou DATE, TIME AND PLACE: May I, 1997, 11:25-11:27 p.m. EDT Residence The President: Mr. Blair: Hello. The President: Mr. Blair: . Hello? Tony? Congratulations. Thanks very much indeed. The President: What are you doing, making a round of parties? Mr. Blair: Yes we are just off. There's a big celebration by the banks of the Thames. I'm just heading off there now. We're slowing duwn through the night. It's a stunning result, really. The President: Mr. Blair: Yes, it's amazing, isn't it? The President: Mr. Blair: That was amazing. I'm really happy for you. Yes, well you showed the way. The President: I'm sorry you got so much grief from the press. Mr. Blair: That's right. Left don't defend you. . Always the Right attack you and the DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 1 '~' ,_At'" ·~_f'''~';;' DECLASSI~ICATION ~ATE: October 14,2015 ,-.. r-.,J INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ; ", :?::~";'-'--i--":'-;:-~~ ,~....1-" _ ( __ •. S,~ :-:-,-/'. ''; 2 The President: Well, the people voted for you. That's the main thing. I wish you well and look forward to working with you. I guess I'll see you soon, at that NATO meeting, if not. sooner. Mr. Blair: Yes, that's right. I would love to do that. We have a chance to do something now. I look forward to meeting with you. We have a good and strong relationship. The President: See you soon. Go on back to your people now. just wanted to wish you congratulations. Mr. Blair: Thanks, thank you very much indeed. The P.resident: Mr. Blair: Good-bye. Good-bye. End of Conversation I CONFlOENriAL GOHFIDji;NTIAI.. THE WHITE HOUSE WASH I NGTON MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Private Meeting with Prime Minister Blair and British Cabinet (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President William Daley, Secretary of Commerce William Crowe, Ambassador to the UK Samuel Berger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs James Steinberg, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Mary Ann Peters, Director for European Affairs, NSC (Noteta~ec) Prime Minister Blair John Holmes, Private Secretary to the Prime Minister for Overseas Affairs Members of the British Cabinet DATE, TIME AND PLACE: May 29, 1997, 11:40 a.m. - 12 noon The Cabinet Room, No. 10 Downing Street Prime Minister Blair: (Following introductions of Cabinet members) Parliament is in recess; we are having a hell of a time getting underway -- the honeymoon doesn't last long. The second term is what we need; to take nothing for granted and not rely on the other side's unpopularity. »Ci The President: I am delighted to be here. I admire what you did for the party; it is important to have the freedom to capture the center and move into tomorrow. -f€t Prime Minister Blair: The truth is we took part of what we did from you; I am happy that these issues are on the agenda in the rest of Europe now. ~ The President: There are some leaders like the prime ministers of the Netherlands and Portugal who have the same ideas. ~ Prime Minister Blair: other examples. ~ CONFIDEH'l'IAL Reason: 1.5 (b) , Declassify On, , 6/ And Sweden -- it is helpful to look at DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 2 5€;~;iiooiE]' O:"hff 14, 2015 CONFIDtNTlAL CONFIDEN'I'IAL 2 The President: Kok was talking about France; they are not ready yet to do what is needed. ~he UK, the Netherlands and the Uniterl states have good social compacts that make the country work; in the United States we need to maintain competitiveness while looking out for people. Millions can't cope with work and family; and these are the people who face education and safe streets and health care challenges. If you succeed, and I think. you will, constructive change will have to take place. France and Germany need to balance social programs and global realities; a different version of that problem faces us all. ~ Prime Minister Blair: That is why it is so important to exchange ideas; we have learned from the best and worst of experiences; there. must .be structural change. It could well be premature to . introduce the euro without it. ;e1 The President: It is interesting how a currency acquires a life of its own -- it has become the litmus test for France and Germany, though the underlying changes have not taken place. yz( (Cabinet meeting adjourned, discussion continued with Chancellor of Exchequer Brown.) Mr. Brown: There is a need for a flexible labor market, which you faced up to in the United States. You have 50 percent more consumption per head than France and Germany because they have not liberalized shopping hours, and 50 percent more computer work. If possible, we should make the G-7 the forum for discussion of flexible labor forces so others can learn from the U.s. experience. The debate needs to go forward in Europe. ~ Prime Minister Blair: It doesn't mean giving up the social compact but it is. a new world. The role of government is not about hostilities with business but to equip people with the skills and technology they need and help families. ~ The President: I agree with that. k81 Mr. Brown: In Great Britain, the long-term unemployed make up 40 percent of our unemployed, compared with 10 percent in the United States. We have no way to get them back to work. There will have to be huge changes; France is the best example because their public sectqr is huge. We need to demonstrate that growth and social programs can work together -- you do not have to sacrifice. one for the other. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I told Jospin that he was attacking the right for the wrong reasons -- he should be doing it because they are not going far enough. Je7 CONFIDENTIAL ~.,...... ~_,,, J~~ '_.'~'- - --'--:.'--'''\y _._ • • • _ _ ~~;£~,~~mr,j " , .,~., " : .- .",)-; j I Cur~riUtj\~ IIAL CONFIDENTIAL 3 The President: We cut government employment by 300,000. It is now the smallest since the Kennedy Administration and, on a per capita basis, the smallest it has been since 1933. We have direct transfers to social security and to state and local governments. You could be helpful with the difficulties within France and Germany with regard to social spending. At least in Germany they spend the money better, on long-terr:. training i in France people are paid to stay unemployed for very long periods. ],Kf Mr. Brown: The system can only work if there is mobility, flexibility and la~ge transfers. Right now, none of these three exists. 0 .The President: There is one thing to look at. I know the United states are different than EU member nations, but you would be interested in how far big states can go in having different financial policies. New Jersey is an example - - i t proved you can raise the minimum wage and create more low-wage jobs. I used this experience to justify our rc:ising the minimum wage. But unemployment will go up if the rise is too big. Your unemployment rate is lower than other Europeans' because of your f1exible system. -+-er . Mr. Brown: Since they are not required to work, no long-term unemployed single parents are included in our statistics. That means unemployment is really closer to 20 percent in some cases. We have the biggest single-parent population in Europe. -+-er The President: If the culture says it is no longer necessary to have a marriage to have children, then that means single parents should have to work. ~ -- End of Conversation -- CONFIDENTIAL 6EGRE"T SECRET 2 THE WHITE HOUSE . I. o ~~ WASHINGTON o~ ('>0 Ir)ECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE i iNTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, I E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 3 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 SUBJECT: Restricted Meeting with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President William Crowe, Ambassador to the UK Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Mary Ann Peters, Director for European Affairs, National Security Council (Notetaker) Anthony Blair, Prime Minister Sir John Kerr, Ambassador to the U.S. John Holmes, Private Secretary to the Prime Minister Jonathan Powell, Chief of Staff to the Prime Minister DATE, TIME AND PLACE: May 29, 1997, 12:00-12:30 p.m. No. 10 Downing Street, London Prime Minister Blair: Should we work through our cards? (U) The President: If you see me with all the cards they give me, you know it is going to be ~ long meeting because I have not done my homework. If I .do it, I reduce it to this one card. (U) With regard to Northern Ireland, ,I would like to tell you that when it comes time that you think it would be helpful for us to say something about a cease-fire or decommissioning, let me know. We may have to wait for the Irish election. I have some pull and can call in chits; just let me know. --i-E"t"' Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d) 3ECRE'f Reason: 1.5 (b,l Declassify On:; , SECRE'l' SECRET E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I will think about the parade problem. The conflict reminds me of the Middle East. Do yuu have a resolution in mind? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: One problem is that the people are farther along than the leaders. For people like Sinn Fein and Ian Paisley, the conflict is their whole life. ~ Ambassador Crowe: At Drumcree, however, all those peace-loving people went indoors and shut their blinds. (U) The President: Those were the same people in the streets cheering us -- they need leadership. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Some of my rich yuppie friends cancelled trips to Belfast to play golf. J21 Ambassador Crowe: The President has been strongly supportive of investment in Northern Ireland. K) SE(gET 6EGf:'0. 13526, ~,ti'n 1.4(b)(d) _.:Ai:':-"'_h~;';'"\.....--':;""':;---:...o::--:.--~--~-~... cmlFIDEN'FIAL n' -'1' "'.. -,_ . ,~ J-_~. '7"'~;' ":' COHFIDEN'PIAL CONFlfJENllAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I thought the Econoflist this week had some interesting suggestions on how to proceed with the currency but change some of the Maastricht requirements. They argue that France cannot make it anyway with 12 percent unemployment; but they acknowledge that the Bundesbank would not agree to such changes. Prime Minister Blair: The President: It's just pretty hard to ask a Socialist government -- it was hard to ask Chirac's government -- to do nothing except cut spending when you have 13 percent unemployment. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right, and if you're doing it while kee the franc hi h ou're reall the econom . The President: Well, I don't believe they can solve their economic and unemployment problems through the budget anyway. They need structural reform. Maybe Socialist governments can actually do this better than Conservative governments. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) COHFIDEN'PIAL CONFJ DENTIAL CONF IDEN'PIAL The President: Is he coming to Denver.or not? Prime Minister Blair: He must be? (U) (U) The President: Well the way their constitution works, Chirac has foreign policy and he has economic policy, so they normally bot~ come. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Well, I suppose he will, won't he?· should be interesting. Have you met him? It I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: there? :Jef "You guys have to help me." Tell me who was Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The president: Well I'm looking forward to it. I'm glad to see the debate being carried on our side of the field, but there could be a huge backlash if the left fails to deliver. Ultimately, in a democracy the poor rely upon the social judgment of the middle class. ~ Prime Minister Blair: that we will fail. Absolutelyri ht. There's a real risk I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: That nearly happened to us, you know, when the Congress in '94 didn't pass my plan. I fended it off and we now have agreement in the budget to repair it. I think we saved it, but you don't want to miss those chances when they come along. ~ CONFI DEN1'IPrL CONFiDENTIAL CONFIDEN''fH\:L Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right, there's a huge mood of uncertainty in Europe at the moment. It's almost impossible to overstate it. % The President: Well, they keep trying to draw me into discussions on details and I keep trying to stay out of it. )Q1 Prime Minister Blair: I think where you could have an impact is that people look across the Atlantic, they see the American economy and see that it works. ~ The President: What I try to do is to avoid getting drawn into discussions of issues such as: "If the European currency is delayed, does that mean it is dead. N What I need to do is stay 'on my general theme that you can't create jobs without reform, but you don't have to cut out the social safety net. That is what your election showed. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I think they are afraid that global corporations and global money movers will take away the capacity of the nation-state to preserve the social contract, but I don't think that's true. There was a fascinating piece in the Economist on how the Czech experiment failed. The market outran the capacity of the regulators and they have negative growth now. You ought to have somebody pull that for you, just because it makes the case for reform without the Thatcher/Reagan idea of getting rid of government. A little article on how the Czech economy, the jewel of the post-communist period, could be in all this trouble ironically because there was not enough regulation. l-e1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: The Economist? (U) Not in this edition, but in the last one. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I will look for it. We've got to provide people with a way through this problem, so it's not a choice between dismantlement and corporatism. This is a very European problem, born out of the ideological clash between socialism and capitalism . . You do not have it in the same way in the United States. (U) CON"PI DEW!' IAL LUf'U /BENT/At CONPIDEN'fIAL 6 The President: The problem here is that because union membership is declining, even if you have more jobs, people worry that their families are vulnerable, especially because there is no universal h.ealth care. But without growth and lower unemployment it's hard to get these things done. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, that's right. You could have a more" universal system of health care in your country without wrecking the system. (U) The President: Of course we could. We'd save money. But we're going to take another pop at it this time, at least for the children. Anyway, I can't wait to see you in Denver and I'll call the appropriate people and send the message publicly and privately. kef Prime Minister Blair: That would be very kind, Bill; it would really help. It will be great to see you in Denver. (U) The President: Have you talked Bertie Ahern? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. kef Do you think he'll be Okay? Prime Minister Blair: ~ Yes, I like him, Y21 I -1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes. I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) We have to have a unified position or it doesn't mean a thing. So I'll stick with you as far as I can and see you in Denver. ~ Prime Minister Blair: OK, Bill, many, many thanks indeed. (U)" The President:" Once again, give my best to your wi fe. We had a great time, and let's follow up on that project about philosophy. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we are; it was great to see you and Hillary. One of my few moments of real enjoyment. (U) The President: Well, you get to be a real person. Denver. Bye-bye. (U) COHFIDEN'I'IM See you in Luhl CONFIDEWPIAL Prime Minister Blair; uJLJ'ijj iHL 7 , See you in Denver. End of Conversation CONFIDENTIAL Bye-bye. (U) CONFIDENTIAL COHFI DEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) IS CAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 6 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14,2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: - The President Prime Minister, Tony Blair Notetakers: Doug Mueller, Wylma Robinson, Pat O'Shaughnessy, Bonnie Glick DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: July 27, 1997, 12:41 - 1:02 p.m. EDT Private Residence, Los Angeles, California Tony? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill. How are you? Very well, indeed. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: I am sitting here outside Chequers having a cup of tea with a friend of yours, Steven Spielberg. (U) The President: Steven Spielberg? You are? You tell Mr. Spielberg that you may be drinking tea with him, but I am here on the beach in Santa Monica having coffee with Ron Burkle, which shows California has more influence than either the British or the U.S. Government. (U) Prime Minister Blair: You are? (U) The President: Yes. I am looking at people skateboarding at the beautiful beaches of Santa Monica. (U) Prime Minister Blair: then? (U) CONFIl3EH'FIAL Reason: 1.5(b) Declassify On: You lucky man. This is your vacation, CONFIDENTIAL CONPIDEN'PIl's:L 2 The President: No, no. I am out here working, but it is a Sunday morning and you wanted to talk. And Ron Burkle is a friend of mine who bought a house very close to the hotel where I was last night. I interrupted coffee to speak with you. Congratulations again on the ceasefire. I think we have a chance now. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we have a chance now. to fill ou in on that. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Is there anything we can do to help you with Trimble? Probably not. kef Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: one more time. You know that is a well I can only go back to I am certainly willing to try to do that though. ).e"r Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: I could try to come on over to see you or something. -+e1 cmlFI DEN'E' L"rL CONFIDEN'PIAL CONFIOENTIAL 3 Prime Minister Blair: What I think, the reason why I think there is some hope in the situation is that the ordinary people in Northern Ireland are desperate for peace. ~ The President: Oh God yes. This is the place in the world where there is the largest disconnect between the leaders and what the ordinary people want. Jer Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: And we will do that. I got your letter on the Middle East and I basically agree with the letter. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) And I am really glad you are going to become EU president in January because my sense is that we can get some grudging progress for CONFIDEN'PIAL CONFIDENTIAL 4 CONFIDEN'l'IAL I the rest of the year, and if there is going to be a breakthrough, then we will need everyone's help to close next year. I don't think the present situation can be maintained. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I (JZ) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The_President: point. Well, first of all, a flashpoint or meltdown I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) Prime Minister Blair: That's right. ~ The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I'll give you an example, here you are trying to do this Northern Ireland and one day the IRA has the whole thing in its power and the next day, Paisley does. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFIDENTIAL COHFIDEN'fIAL 5 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) That may be somet lng you cou the Europeans examine -- because it is very important -you want to provide economic assistance to Jordan. With parliamentary elections coming, we would be in a tough situation without any real power if the people he is backing, who have stable relations with Israel, lose ground because of economic difficulties. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: One of the things that would help is to raise the economic fortune of the Palestinians. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: there. (U) Hello? You are getting a bit faint The President: I know that you can't come to us on September 9 because of the Scottish devolution and 13-15 doesn't work for CGHFIDEN'fIl's:L CONFIDEN'f'IAL , CONFIDENTIAL 6 .' me, but we need to set up some time. we find the time. (V) Prime Minister Blair: We will keep working till September is really difficult? The President: Just those two days for me. out another time. (V) (V) I think I can work Prime Minister Blair: I think it probably is a bit difficult for me because if something starts to go wrong. (V) The President: How are the English reacting? pretty well? jQ1 Prime Minister Blair: Is it going down It is okay for the minute. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Are most of the Scots in the Westminster parliament in your party? .J.0r Prime Minister Blair: We are going to give up a few seats. )£1 The President: You may have some to spare now, but you can never tell what you'll need in five years. JK) Prime Minister Blair: However, it has not always been like this in Scotland. In the 50's it was mostly Tory. What I am trying to do is build ,new bases of support, one of the most difficult things to do. There are two referendums, one in Scotland and one in Wales. yM The President: So you stay there and handle it. Your preference is to get the visit done in the month of September. (V) Prime Minister Blair: I think so. (V) The President: That is my strong preference. people and we'll get it done. (V) I will talk to my Prime Minister Blair: Let us do that, Bill, and I also had a note from Hillary about the other thing we talked about and we will work on that. You have a good time in Santa Monica. (V) CONFI DEH'fIAL CONFIDENTIAL cown DEl?ITIAL 7 The President: Tell Steven Spielberg I hate coming all the way out here and not get to see him because he is hanging out in Chequers. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I will certainly. (U) The President: I always suspected that beneath that ruffled, intelle-ctual demeanor was a real Tory aristocrat working. (UrPrime Minister Blair: He is out here making a movie. (U) The President: I know. I told you before that he really wants to help rebuild the movie industry in Great Britain because he is so grateful for its influence. He got a lot of- input from early Br{tish film makers. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Lots of possibilities here, but also important to them that the U.S. and the British work closely, especially because some of the other countries and some of the stuff from the EU is not very sensible. The French and the Italians have weird rules and prescriptions on film making. It would help if we can get some decent British movies. (U) The President: You can do it. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Bye. Prime Minister Blair: Tell him I said hello. All the best. We'll be in touch. (U) Bye. (U) End of Conversation cown DEWT Il'.L (U) (U) CONFIDENTIAL COHFI DEN'f' IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASH J NGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: British Prime Minister Tony Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair (U) Notetakers: Doug Mueller, Bonnie Glick, Sean Rice and Larry Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: September I, 1997, 11:29 - 11:54 a.m. Martha's Vineyard Tony? Prime Minister Blair: grim business. (U) (U) Hi, Bill. It's a grim business, a very The President: It's awful, it's really awful. We're up here on Martha's Vineyard vacationing, and we're with a lot of people who knew her. (U) Prime Minister Blair: We saw her again just weeks ago when we hosted her for lunch with Prince William, he's a great kid. ~ The President: Yeah, I worry a lot about those kids now. le1 Prime Minister Blair: She was such a rock of stability in the sense she connected them with the outside world. The eldest boy, William, is quite like her in a way, he is very "feet on the ground," he does things kids his age do. j..Q-t' The President: Well, I just feel so bad for her. basically getting a hold of her life. ~ She was just Prime Minister Blair: Thanks for your telegram yesterday and your kind words. The problem was the way she lived, in a press frenzy. It's impossible to contemplate how intrusive it was, into every single aspect of her life. The last time I spoke COMFI DEH'f' IAL Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On: CONFIPENTfAL CONFI DEN'FIAL with her, she said that were it not for the boys, she'd be off the board. The country is stunned. (.et' The President: They liked her a lot, didn't they. ~ Prime Minister Blair: She was not the royal family but .she was liked by ordinary people, it gave her problems with the royal establishment. {.Q1" The President: Well, I know it's a difficult time for you. just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. yx I Prime Hinister Blair: I will personally miss her, it's like a She was a star for them. j..e} star falling. The President: What do they know? Is the British security guard who was with her still alive? % Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he is. And he may be able to offer some more information. There has been some talk this afternoon. They went to the hotel and thought they would be left alone. The Embassy and the French government did not know they were there. The media turned up, SQ they decided to go to dinner then on to one of al-Fayed's houses. When they got to their car, it did not start. They called someone from the hotel and the hotel provided a car and driver. Apparently he'd been drinking. yc) The President: That's what I was afraid of. Those guys were chasing them? Jet Prime Minister Blair: Jumped on them as they left the hotel, yet I can't believe some of the reports of how fast they were going though. It's just not possible they were going 100 mph They wouldn't have to be going that fast I mean, I know Paris. in those tunnels, though. They must have hit a rim in the road and turned over and smashed into a wall. j..e} The President: It's a sad thing, I tell you. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, someone we knew and liked. She had a remarkable gift. She was beginning to get her life together. j..e} The President: Yes, Hillary had a nice visit with her a few weeks ago when she was here. We liked her a lot. I just think that anything you can do for those boys, I don't know how CONFIDEN'fIl'rL ........ ~,i". -. taNfl DtNTIAt~~; ~~~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ;'i; .. "-~.. . . ~ CONFIDENTIAL 3 CONFIDEN'fIAL ~~____~~I_E_.~O~._13_5_2~6~,s~e~ct_io_n__1._4(~d~)~____~~~__~I in a situation like this, about the challenges they will face. Prime Minister Blair: over. ~ I'll try to keep in touch and have them E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: ~I ______________ What about her sisters? What are they like? ~I~E=.O==.1=3=52=6~,s=ec=ti=on==1.4d(~d)~__________________~I jQ1 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) The President: Prime Minister Blair: I I I E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) Hillary and I just wanted to tell you all we were thinking of you. .-keI Prime Minister Blair: Your words yesterday were greatly appreciated. Thank you. So you are on holiday now? (U) The President: I'm having a good holiday. It's the longest vacation we have had in ten years. We're getting ready to send Chelsea: off to university. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Are you looking forward to that? (U) The President: She is, but that's all part of it, it's what you raise them for. (U) cmlFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL CONFI DEN'fIAL 4 Prime Minister Blair: there, then? (U) You're going straight to California from The president: No, we have one more week here, then we go back to Washington for a week to ten days, then we will go to California to take her out there. (U) You're doing well in Northern Ireland, no? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: tha t . -+-c+- The Sinn Fein shouldn't have a problem with Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: circumstances. He's actually been good about this, under the ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Do you think there is anything we can do to Trimble to stroke him? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) cm~PIDEH'3'IM f~"~' --'OONF!HENTlAE~-> '~L~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY --.-:----,-~.-, , • -.' "t -< CONF1BENTfAt CONn DEHT lAL The President: I think they're worried about being rendered irrelevant in 20 years, given the way the demographics are going, it's better to make a deal now rather than later. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: If you look at it, their popular majority is eroding over time with the increasing birth rates, so now is the time. You'll have to come up with some sort of creative dual relationship. kef Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: That's consistent with what you are doing in Scotland and Wales, anyway. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The.President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: No one wants to get up and put a sandwich in a lunch tin to go to the factory if you have this going on. ~ Prime Minister Blair: with you? E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) So all is well You're getting re-engaged in the Middle East? kef The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFl DEHT L'\L CONFIDENHAL CONFIDENTlhL 6 We're in a I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) difficult position'L-~.~==================______~ but we don't want to be someone on the outside just seen as complaining. We've got a good set of ideas. ~ Prime Minister Blair: What's your actual estimate? ~ The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Now progress. or some ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CO}IFIDJ1::HTIAL CONFIDENTIAL CONFIUENTfAL Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) Things are getting a little better in Bosnia. Plavsic is showing some get up and go. You've got a decision coming your way that we can't discuss on this line, but I think things are going in -the right direction over the last weeks, no the last couple of months, after a bad year. I feel good about this. We've got a shot to move it forward. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: to you today. Tell Cherie I said hello. I just wanted to talk (U) Prime Minister Blair: calling about Diana. The President: I E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Give our love to Hillary. (U) Take care, friend. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye Bill. Bye. (U) All the best. End of Conversation -- COHFIDEN'PIAL Thanks for· (U) THE WHITE HOUSE DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 8 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Tony Blair Notetakers: Sean Rice, Larry Wright, Tom Crowell, James Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: October 9, 1997, 9:18 - 9:40 a.m. EDT The Oval Office Hi, Tony. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill. How are you? I am in good form; I just got my party conference out of the way. (U) The President: here. (U) It went great, didn't it? It got great press Prime Minister Blair: Well, I feel like a man who is facing an inevitable collapse, but in good shape, actually. How are you? (U) The President: I'm doing great, thanks. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I saw a great picture of you and Hillary taking Chelsea to Stanford. It was marvelous. (U) The President: Well, it looked better than it felt. Prime Minister Blair: (U) It looks like she's having a good time. (U) The President: She's very happy. She called last night and we had a good talk. It's a three-hour difference, so she always calls late, but she knows I'm always up late. She had her first :'lECRE't' Reason: 1.5{b;d) Declassify On'; .... ___ .__ c- .• --F--;" l0~::_ _ Yl . ~.::,~:~~ Y:::.:(_L~;J-,.>·~i .sECRET chemistry test. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Look, Bill, the reason I called was to mention couple of things: I went to Moscow early in the week, and also I have some thoughts on Northern Ireland. ~ a E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: Did he give any hint of whether he would run for another term? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)( d) The President: Yeah. (U) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) SECRET bt:br"{c i SECRE'f' 3 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: We will do that. I was very encouraged by my visit with Trimble, he's trying to be a part of this, more upbeat than in the past. ~ Prime-Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Did Yeltsin mention the START II treaty? Prime Minister Blair: The President: ~ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) How about Iran? +&t Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I believe that a lot of things do happen without his knowledge. When they changed their economy, they did not have the intermediate controls in place that a normal economy has. We have a process going with the Vice President, Chernomyrdin, Wisner and Koptev, that I think will work. They say they're cracking down, but he is careful about what he says in public, maybe because he doesn't want to be seen to be SECRE'f 3ECREf 4 dancing to our tune. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Oh God, I'm really worried about it. so strongly opposed to any of that stuff that I'm about how they'd react to it. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Let me ask you one other thing. I appreciate your help in keeping the issue over the French oil company Total from becoming a bigger problem. We need to work the twin tracks of an EU waiver and the Total-Gazprom case. I know that a lot of Europeans don't agree with us, but I'm still concerned about Iran becoming an industrial and military giant, given their philosophy. I'm hoping that the new leadership in time will have enough influence to change things, but there are no indications of this yet. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I'd appreciate anything you can do to help. don't want to get crossways with the French and EU. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) SECRET ---~ . ": r ·l I 5 SECRET E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I '---_--'I yJ The President: The Iranians -- and I sometimes think the Chinese ar.ethis way, too -- think we're so motivated by money that we'll eventually cave in. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: to do. .k51. It took a long time, but it was the right thing Prime Minister Blair: Yes. So, we're with you on that entirely. People are very supportive of your efforts to bring people around on the environmental issue. ~ The President: The problem is, the u.s. Senate won't ratify anything I sign. They're in the Dark Ages on this -- mostly the Republicans, but Democrats, too. They're being told against all evidence that you can't do this without wrecking the economy. We had a big conference here this week with energy experts, people who are making a living implementing changes. But with everything going on in Washington, it didn't break through as I'd hoped. It may have moved things a little. I'm chipping away, trying to do everything I can to get us in decent shape, and the Japanese are trying to get us together. +er Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The president: One thing we ought to do is to some way get the developing countries involved in a regime -- where they don't have the same controls as we -- to develop an alternate energy future. There are things they can do now that won't hamper growth, but they can do it now so that when they become developed, they'll already have a different energy structure. The trick is to get them involved without their thinking that we're trying to choke off their growth; we need their growth for our own sake. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I agree with that totall I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I SECRET SECRE'f The President: We need to find some formula to participate. If we gamble and take this on, but by the time you get halfway through the. century, we're no better because we've been replaced by China and India, still worse off, nothing has happened to lower the global temperature. Get them to talk to us, find a formula to benefit from, build a different energy structure. The Indians are open, they're doing some big alternative projects, more open than the Chinese. China is giving us grief about criticism of their big Three Gorges hydropower project, which is their biggest greenhouse gas project. Because it will displace a million people and change the ecosystem, all the environmentalists who are fighting global warming are fighting the dam. Biggest dilemma. ~ . Prime Minister Blair: I a ree with the same basic E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes, we will. Well, carry Thank you for calling. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I'm looking forward to seeing Hillary when she is here. Everything ok with you? (U) The President: Great. She is thrilled, looking forward to it, and we are working on a time for you to come here. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks. Prime Minister Blair: It will be great to see you. Bye. Bye. (U) (U) End of Conversation SECRE'l' THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, Peter Huggins, Lyle Harrison, James Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: October 22, 1997, 3:53-4:00 p.m. EDT The Oval Office Hello? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill. Hey, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: (U) (U) How's it going? (U) The President: The speech went over pretty well, and we've gotten some reasonable press. Some environmental groups are pretty positive, some said we should have tighter deadlines. We've gotten more business support than I thought, but the traditional industries have dumped on it. The best we can hope for right now. I tried to leave open the language on developing nations. I was pretty explicit about the kind of joint projects I think we ought to have, but using the language you gave me, I was general on it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CO~TnDENTIl'rL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5(b,d) Declassify On: lCJA,>~,3j.9.ki;.r'. .--.. - - -- --.~'~; te~N LIBRARY PHO~OCOPYl 2 CON'PIDEN'I'IAL E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)( d) The President: here. )J21 Well, I don't know. We'll have to see how we do Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Do you know when he'll be here? Prime Minister Blair: think. +et The President: ~ I'm not sure; in the next few days, I Have him check in with Sandy Berger. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: do. )Cl Good, we will work with John and see what we can Prime Minister Blair: CONPIDEN'l'IAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d) 3 • COHPIBENl'IAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Well, I'm really encouraged. I guess you know this, we had a plane crash over here and a British pilot was killed. An F-16 and a T-38 were on a photo chase mission and collided over Edwards Air Force Base. There was an American pilot, but there was also a British pilot, Flight Lieutenant Leigh Alexander Fox. His wife is there with him at Edwards, and it is just awful. No one has figured out how it happened. Somehow the F-16 was able to land, but the pilots of the T-38 ejected. Both were found dead. I'll send you the information on it. ~ - - Prime Minister Blair: Thanks, Bill. ~ The President: We will work on this other thing and see John Prescott when he gets here. Thanks for working with me on this, man. (~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Not at all. OK, bye. Prime Minister Blair: I'll be in touch. (U) Alright, Bill, speak to you soon. End of Conversation -- CONFIDENTIAL (U) (U) • CONFIDEH'l'IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON [1 '.". 10 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, David Higgins, Anthony Campanella, Peter Huggins, James Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: October 21, 1997, The Oval Office Hey, ~Jny. 3:23~3:32 p.m. EDT (U) Prime Minister Blair: Bill, hello. Tony here. I'm sorry·this has to be ... I'm in the middle of a big dinner, but I thought I would come out and speak to you about what we spoke about yesterday. (U) The President: Okay. Prime Minister Blair: (U) I am due to speak to Wim Kok tomorrow. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONPI DENT IM Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reas 0 n : 1 . 5 (b ; d) .. "~'h.ft'7.i~;:'-"~"'~-=~~--~"'\: Declassify On: J.O/ti~~~ONLIB~RYPH0TOCOPY ,,.,t %?:;;:;:;~~~:~>,,~.;c ~?\~=;'~~;"k'o-:-;;;:::,:.:'~;~_}_:-:<:. !:~,~r,.~, • 2 COUFIDEN'fL'lL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: On joint implementation? Prime Minister Blair: Yes. kef ~ The President: What 1 can say there is we know we need to leave some room on language for implementing on how developing countries would participate, but what about targets? That's what I am really worried about. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: The big problem we have here is that I not only talked to you, Kohl and Hashimoto -- and I want you to talk to as many as you can -- but I also briefed Senate leaders this afternoon and I will brief the House on what I am trying to do. It will raise more questions than it will answer if I cancel the speech tomorrow. I see what you're doing, what you want me to do: say what I have to say, but leave as much wiggle room as possible for you. jef Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Alright, I will work on it as well as I can. What I want you to do is to welcome the fact that we are clearly committed to binding targets and clearly committed to participa}ion. If you give negotiations a chance, that would help. fCl CONFIDEN'fIAL " 3 cmrFIDEHTIAL Prime Minister Blair: Very haoov to do that. I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: ~ I have been saying that for months. Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: The problem is I will lose all credibility if I don't give some target range. I have to say what our position will be. I will try to figure out a way to give it flexibility, and, on jotnt implementation, I think I can do precisely what . you want. ...{-et' Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: Alright. Thank you very much. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Well, we are going to get out there and do the best we can. I will try to leave you as much wiggle room as possible. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Alright, Bill. (U) (U) All the very best. Good-bye. Good-bye. -- End of Conversation -- cmlFI DENT IAL '. cmrn DENT lAL THE WHITE HOUSE WAS HI NGTO N MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Lyle Harrison, J. Laurence Wright II, Jeff Rathke, Anthony Campanella, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: November 15, 1997, 12:40-12:50 p.m. EST Air Force One, en route Las Vegas to Sacramento The President: Hello? connection. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Hello? Hello? We still don't have a good (U) The President: Tony, can you hear me? last time. (U) Prime Minister Blair: No problem. I'm so serry about the (U) The President: I am on the airplane and usually it works, but sometimes it doesn't. Thank you for the letter you sent me earlier this week. I want to talk throu h what I am thinkin about this issue. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) CONFI DEN'±' L'\L Classified by: Reason: 1.5(b Declassify on: CONFI DEN'£' lAb 2 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) We all see this looking back through the prism of the Gulf War, but I want to see this looking forward through the prism of the future. My goal in this and my definition of victory, is that this is not a macho contest of getting him to back down, but to reestablish the inspections regime, which I think was a smashing success. Jef Prime Minister Blair: Bill, I am in total agreement with everything you saif~d~.__~I~w~a~n~t~~y~o~u~t~o__k_n_o~w~w~e~w~i~l~l~s~t~i~c~k~w~i~t~h~y~ou throughout this. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I think this is very important. Jacques Chirac is in Vietnam right now, and I am trying to call him. I will talk to Yeltsin and several others over the next two days. If there is anything you can do to promote unity among the allies, I would appreciate it. I understand their position and the popular sympathy in the Middle East for the people of Iraq. I CONFIDEH'l'IAL 3 COHFIDEN'fIAL think we need to get people in your country, in France, and elsewhere, to see what UNSCOM has destroyed. Tpey need to see how successful the program of eliminating weap'ons of mass destruction has been. But there is one thing going on in our country and also in the UN, and that is that the only time Iraq gets attention is when Saddam creates a crisis. If people knew how many weapons UNSCOM inspectors have exposed, they would understand why this is so important. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O, 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: We may need to talk again several times over the next week, but I won't bother you unless I have to. We will have to work together on this. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, absolutely right. And the more that can be done to publicize the work that UNSCOM has done over the last six years, the better. )e1 The President: Did you see Netanyahu in London? Prime Minister Blair: ~ Yes, I did. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I know what you mean. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I will sen meetings, I'm not sure over the weekend. +et Let's in touch The President: Thank you for the meeting and the time you spent with Hillary. She just loved it. It looked like it was very successful. (U) CONTIDE1H:' IAL 4 COHFI DENT IAL Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it was great. form. All right then, all the best. (U) The President: Okay, I will talk to you later. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation CmJFIDEH'i'IAL She was in fantastic Bye-bye. (U) CONFTDEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 12 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: George Chastain, Tony Campanella, James Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: December 9, 1997, 3:19-3:24 p.m. EST The Map Room Tony? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill. How are you doing? Prime Minister Blair: (U) (U) Fine, how are you? (U) The President: I'm doing great. I know it's later there, but I wanted to check in with you. I've been on the phone a lot the last three or four days. I think we've made a lot of progress in Kyoto and John Prescott has been very helpful. We have made quite an effort to come to a common posjtion, and I've 1""------, authorized our negotiators to show more flexibility. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I to move to the European position on based on some variation of the proposal Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: They're getting closer. If we can get all the big I Annex I countri es to agree, mC' ·jb<:o~· get the developing cOtqFI DElffIAL Reason: 1.S(d) Declassify On:: LUNtO'!UtN IIAL CONFIDEN'fI:AL 2 countries to do more. They agree on joint implementation projects, but they're still resisting Article 10~ They seem to think that we'll coerce them into joining. fe1' E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: The President: Really? in~Jrmation than I do. You may have more up to date y6 ~ " Prime - Minis"ter Blair: / '------~/ The President: That's pretty good. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, we will get a lot of abuse, and I'm going to get a lot of abuse at home. And I can't get it ratified unless we get commitments under Article 10 from developing countries. ;e1 Prime Minister Blair: I ~ '-------~/ The President: I do, too. We have one more day, and maybe we can talk tomorrow, if we need to. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I I agree with that. Prime Minister Blair: ~ I hope it is okay. / I CONFI DEN'3'IAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 3 CONFIElEH'fIAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Thank you. This is good news. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I l'he President: Pr~me E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Me, too . ..J,12r Minister Blair: The president: Fine. Is everything fine ~ith you? IU) (U) Prime Minister Blair: Okay, I will try to find out exactly what is happening on Kyoto and we can talk again tomorrow if there is (U) a continuing problem. The President: Okay, I'll be available. Goodbye, my friend. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Okay, goodbye. (U) End of Conversation GONFI DEW!' IJlcL Let's bring it horne. ,-.--- .. ----... ~---...", ... ,,---,---.---. DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 13 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 CONFI DEN'f' IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PART I C'I PANTS : The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: James Smith, George Chastain, Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell, Larry Wright, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: January 27, 1998, 10:30 - 10:41 a.m. EST The Oval Office Hello Prime Minister Blair: Hello The President: Tony! Prime Minister Blair: about you. How are you doing? Bill! I'm doing fine, and I'm thinking The President: I'm doing alright, I'm slogging on. i t ' l l be alright. I think Prime Minister Blair: I just wanted to say that anything that You have my 100 you want me to do or say, I'm happy to do. percent support, and Cherie sends her love. The President: When you're here, we can talk about it. One or two things might actually make a difference, and we will talk about it. Prime Minister Blair: Well, anything you want, we'll do it. The President: I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Iraq and Northern Ireland. I E.O. 13526, section I.4( d) I ~. "., . CONl!"IVI!:M"fIAL 2 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I really appreciate your saying that. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) . "LiNTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOpy1! i':~~\:':'~'-'-_.c:-~~::":';;__ .-'~j,/r . CeNFIBEM!IAL 3 Prime Minister Blair: I agree with that. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I generally agree with that, but there's not a lot of time left, we waited a long time, until the end of the Muslim holy period. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d) The President: / I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Ok. Prime Minister Blair: this? ...RJ (U) What is your sense about the timing of The President: It's going to take a couple of weeks to get together, but not much longer. I would imagine we will be ready to move with it not.J.,o;.ng__ ii!l.~t~H?-ybll'-r~ner::e~, .~ . (i~lNTO~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY' CONFIDENTIAL " :o<~~~._c>_,""c~,-;:,.~~":;_x_ Oil • I' . GONFIDEU'fIAL 4 Prime Minister Blair: it when .. ,(Z) . So we should have a chance to talk about The President: We are on an open line, so I will have Sandy get with your 2eo~le. ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I r------------------~ ~ Prime Minister Blair, / The President: violence? -tet Where are we on Northern Ireland, Loyalist Prime Minister Blair: The President: right? j.e} So we need to work to keep them from doing that, Prime Minister Blair: The President E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 5 CO~TFIDENT IAL Prime Minister Blair: The President: Well, I worked like hell on the Middle East last week, but I didn't get very far. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) . The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Thank you so much for what you said. little about it when you arrive. ye( Prime Minister Blair: Bill. The President: Yes. Anyway, we're thinking of you, Take care man. Prime Minister Blair: OK, bye. End of Conversation CONFIDEN'fIAL We'll talk a SEeKEr THE WHITE HOUSE WASH I NGTON MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Meeting with Tony Blair, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom PARTICIPANTS: The President The Vice President Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State Samuel Berger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Donald K. Bandler, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European Affairs, Notetaker Tony Blair, Prime Minister John Holmes, Principal Private Secretary to the Prime Minister John Sawers, Notetaker DATE, TIME AND PLACE: February 5, 1998, 11:00 a.m.-12:40 p.m. Oval Office The President: We're off to a good start, Tony. Shall we turn to Northern Ireland? How do you see the prospects for peace and how can I help? (U) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d) The President: I agree, and some others do as well, but not everyone thinks the ceasefire,w~~~LUL--LUL~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~, SECRET Reason: 1.5 (el), Declassify On:; . DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) IS CAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 14 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 2 SECRE'3' Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) Samuel Berger: Your efforts to develop the equality agenda seem to us a key in the effort to keep the Republicans in the process. V1 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I agree. We will continue our contacts and dialogue with Sinn Fein. I also intend to keep seeing Trimble and the other key Unionist leaders when they come to town. Y21 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Thank you again for your continuing help on this critical dimension of the peace process. (U) The President: Let's turn now to Iraq. after your trip, Madeleine? (rU) Secretary Albright: The trip worked rather well. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) SECRE'f What is your assessment SECRET 3 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) The President: I agree that their willingness to open eight sites is interesting and offers some hope that our approach could lead to an acceptable formula.' ~. Samuel Berger: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes, that might be acceptable if a few political people were there in addition to the essential UNSCOM team. ~ Secretary Albright: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) SECRET 4 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) I Samuel Berger: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) The Vice President: In the meantime, we are getting new pressures, especially from Capitol Hill, to go after Saddam's head. l21 The President: That's right, Tony, and you just heard our press making exactly that point. But that approach is nowhere near as simple as it sounds on the surface. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: That's what is working and will work. Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) SECRE'f' i&f FED. 13526, section x} ?15 v-u PHOTOCOPYSECRE'l' 6 Prime Minister Blair: Our public opinion is not the same as yours, but we are working hard to educate the public. We put out a white paper yesterday on Iraq's WMD programs. (U) The President: I heard it is an outstanding document. (U) Prime Minister Blair: We have to educate international opinion so they see the real threat and choices we face. (U) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) , Secretary Albright: panicky reaction. If we doa white paper, it could create a ~ The President: But such a paper could also give us a margin of maneuver. It would show how much UNSCOM has accomplished in reducing his stocks and capacity -- but not his future potential. .J..!Cf' Secretary Albright: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) The President: AI, what do you think? The Vice President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) :3ECRET (U) 13.0. 13526, Section . 5. . LIBRARY PHOTOCO . 7? . ISCAP appeal 2013-090 Document 14 Page 8 was not included as part of the materials in this appeal because it could not be found. . -- - C7 I ?1 INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPYT 22"(r-um 10 12.0. 13526, section - 1. - J, .Akd??'af? 5:113 c? - LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY .Liz-?ll FED. 13526, section git-m5 . if INTON LIBRARY PHOTO-COPY. - 12 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) ';;:::' .-_ft-=;~~-'--, .-~'~--.-.-~""-;\ C~~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY:}; '-l.?,:,~ ~ :~;~~.~ -=:.;.:..--:~\.:~-~'~~ ::._ "._' ~~;.:.:"'~.( _____ ~c-..r;--~·['1 13 {13.0. 1.3526, section I 5 1-51 um . 3-. . . ufr? .. 1V 14 E.0. 13526, section 1.4(d) INTON LIBRARY End of Cenversation ..- 1.74COMPIDEN'I'IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: K.C. Brown, Cindy Lawrence, Anthony Campanella, Joel Schrader and James Smith DATE, TIME AND PLACE: February 16, 1998, 5:14 - 5:41 p.m. EST Camp David, Maryland The President: Hello? Prime Minister Blair: (U) Hi, Bill. (U) The President: Hey, Tony. I saw you on the Prime Minister's question time on C-SPAN yesterday. (U) Prime Minister Blair: What a treat for you! (U) The President: You got one hateful comment on Iraq from one of your back benchers, and one hit you on welfare reform. (U) Prime Minister Blair: It doesn't much matter which row they come from, they're very often stingers. (U) The President: here. J..e1 It kind of reminds me of Paul Wellstone over Prime Minister Blair: Well you know, it is from a very usual suspect. On Iraq, they are pretty good on the whole so it doesn't much matter. So you watched? What did you think of my opposite number there? ~ The President: I didn't see him. I only saw the last 10 (Z) minutes of you answering questions. CONFIDEN'l'IAL Classified by: . Glyn T. Davies ~::~~~~if~ ~~~!d;/ )-~ -"'~~-~ c~c-·1 ; /. ',;. INTONLIBRARYPHOTOCOPY ,); \ , ~~:;-.~::~~~~~~:._..~_~+::,),,,.-=-;'.;., ~,_",:~;;~"~_L<~r~;~~'~ ',," 2 CONFIDENTIAL Prime Minister Blair: It is the sort of thing you would do really well, but frankly I could do without it every Wednesday . .-ter The President: Well they just replayed it on C-SPAN last night. So, how are you doing? }e1 Prime Minister Blair: I'm doing fine. We have two big problems to take care of at the moment: Northern Ireland and Iraq. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yeah. He was very good. told me to and he was very good. +&r' I called him after you Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section lA(b)(d) The President: You're doing right. Absolutely right. I'll support you on this. Even our Irish guys have been great. Kennedy and Dodd say there is no choice and they promised to get in touch with Adams to say [gap]. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONFIDENTIAL 3 CONFIDENTIAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Let's hope they behave while they are out. That's the key, isn't it? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I agree with that. On Iraq, I just talked to Sandy Berger. We have an agreed upon proposal to take to Kofi Annan about how to do this. The Russians keep saying... can you wait a second? ~ Prime Minister Blair: Taking care of Buddy are you? (U) The President: Yes, he's got to go outside. I have a door right here. I will let him out. (Pause) Sorry. Hillary is at another place working. We are not together. We're at Camp David. Here's the problem we all have to watch. Because of European public opinion and Arab public opinion, we don't want to look blood thirsty and have to go the last mile. Saddam needs a face saver. Kofi Annan would love to go in and save the day, which is fine with me. The problem from my point of view is, we can give them some sort of change in appearance here on how to deal with the presidential palaces but it can't undermine the integrity of the inspections and turn it from a professional process to fundamentally a political one. We are trying to arrive at language, whereby they open Presidential sites to UNSCOM but palaces would be treated differently. Palaces would be open to diplomats and political personages. I think we are agreed, at least that is what Sandy said. Apparently the actual palaces would be subject to UNSCOM and then Annan could name diplomats to go with them. But if you take UNSCOM out of the decision making and let Annan make all the decisions, the pressures on him would be enormous for a different standard. Annan is talking about taking Ekeus with him. ~ Prime Minister Blair: He's Swedish, right? (U) The President: Yes. He was Butler's predecessor. He's now the ambassador to the United States as fate would have it. But that CONFH)ENTIAL 4 COHFIDENTIAL might not be all bad, even though Ekeus is viewed as softer than Butler because he didn't put heat on the presidential sites. The truth is Ekeus was there at the beginning and he had so damn much work ,to do on other places that it was an acceptable compromise at the time. He wasn't really at the point because, he was full up on other sites. It might work out all right. My, worst nightmare is being isolated because we can't agree to something that looks perfectly all right on the surface. We simply have to insist on technically qualified inspectors. Look, I wouldn't know a chemical lab from a football field. We have a good opening position but the trouble is there is no place to go after the opening. You and I have to work closely together on this. I called King Hassan and had a long talk with him. He has been a good friend of the United States and of mine. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I told him to go to Saddam, call him and tell him that I have no interest in killing him or hunting him down. I'm not fooling with him. I just don't want his chemical and biological program going forward. By the way, the memo you put out on the web is phenomenally successful. But you must know that. Everybody wants it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: I agree. ~ Prime Minister Blair: My view, very clearly indeed, is that the bottom line all the way through is that the inspectors have got to be able to do their job uninhibited. I don't care who accompanies the inspectors provided they are not interfering with the inspectors. That doesn't trouble me. ~ The President: CONFIDEN'fIAL I agree. (U) CONFIDENl'IAb 5 Prime Minister Blair: Where Saddam is at the moment is that he will let us in to the presidential sites, but onl once and Annan into the presidential palaces. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: It puts him in a terrible position. It looks good to him because he gets to be a peacemaker and the real issues are technical. Let me go back to the history a bit. The history is that UNSCOM originally was set up answerable to the Security Council and not to him, and he doesn't particularly like that. There was a working group and an oversight board. But there is a permanent staff at UNSCOM. The real problem is, for example, that if it were put under the Secretary General and out from under UNSCOM, all decisions would come to him: it would be up to him to determine which site to inspect, where and when. They would have to go back to him and he would decide when the files got closed, and which sites need future monitoring. What we tried to do is say, look we don't want to make those decisions either. We only care that independent, making the inspections. E.O. 13526, section 1.4 d Politically, the idea of letting these inspectors decide when to inspect and where to inspect and when to close files and which sites most likely require future monitoring is very important. You can dress it up in a lot of different ways. Our opening position, which Sandy said your guys signed off on, we can take to Kofi and the French and the Russians, but then what? It is hard to think of a fallback position if the French and Russians push us on this. I have enormous regard for Kofi Annan. I think he is a heck of a man, E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) a ave oun out dealing with this is that most people, even in our own country, have not thought much about the facts of chemical and biological weapons and how little space it takes to produce them and their capacity for delivering this stuff now. That is what basically concerns me. They say in the Middle East we are hypocrites. They say there are others who CONFIDEH'fIAL CONFIDEN'l'IAL 6 have this, they say the Israelis, but no one else has shown a willingness to use them or share them with anyone else. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I tell me this because I don't quite understand it, where is Saddam Hussein on this, where does he corne down on this? My people have been unable to tell me. ~ The President: . We. don't know either. The only outstanding issue is who is in charge of the presidential site inspections. He even tried to get Newt Gingrich to bring a congressional delegation to the presidential sites. Newt was smart enough to -know that one site has nearly 100 buildings that could be warehousing these chemicals, labs, and stuff. t€t Prime Minister Blair: A huge complex. ~ The President: On biological agents, you hardly need a room the size of a photographer's darkroom to do it. 121 Prime Minister Blair: That's right. Is he now saying the only outstanding issue is not the presidential sites but simply who authorizes inspections? +e1 The President: It is my understanding ... I've had so damn many conversations today, I am not sure I remember. I'm not sure I know the answer on monitoring and corning back again. My understanding is what he says is the outstanding issue is who gets to come into the presidential sites. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Sites or palaces? Jef The President: Both, I think. He has a higher standard for palaces than sites, but he is basically saying he will let someone corne in and look at both categories. ;zi Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Yes and basically he thinks Kofi will be responsive to political pressures if he does that and will take us off line. Saddam thinks Butler is a stooge of America, but hell, I never even talk to Butler. He is a tough guy and I like what he is doing. I've reached the conclusion after eliminating CONFIDEN'F Hili CONFI DEN'fIAL 7 all possible alternatives that Saddam still has the makings of a chemical and biological program he doesn't want to give up. +et Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes. I'm and will call you back to together on this. If our he wants Kofi to make all construct a good argument I looking at some other things we can do talk about it. We'll need to stay two staffs are together and if he says of the calls, then we need to why that is not a good thing. ker Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Je1 Awful. Prime Minister Blair: I E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) L -_ _~~~~~~~~~~_ _ _ _~ The President: I am going to talk to him tomorrow-or maybe tonight. If I get any clUe, I'll let you know. Listen Tony, what's the most direct contact you have had with Iraq since 1991? For instance, has the British Foreign Minister talked to Tariq Aziz? .JRf Prime Minister Blair: I honestly don't know. check and get back to you. Jer I'll have to The President: If I weren't constrained by the press, I would pick up the phone and call the son of a bitch. But that is such a heavy-laden decision in America. I can't do that and I don't think you can. ..J..e"} Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONFIDENTIAL 8 CONFIDENI IAL 'Phe PresidepL: I agree. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) ~ Prime Minister Blair:J The President: I can't tell you how critical it is. It costs us a hell of a lot of money to do all this moving around we are . doing, not counting the political costs. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Agree, but I will have a hard time selling anything here short of military action, but I can do that if I ~ know it is real. IPrime Minister Blair, The President: ~ I Can't allow that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONFI DEN'3'IAL I can't agree more. ~ , CONFIDEN'f'IAL 9 - Prime Minister Blair: If we stay in close contact tomorrow, when will we send him off to Baghdad? ~ The President: I don't know. He wants to go Wednesday or Thursday. I will let you know. Let's keep in close touch on this. If you want to talk about this, I don't care if you get me up in the middle of the night if you want to. There is hardly anything more important. le1 Pr-ime Minister Blair: If I have more thoughts tomorrow, I'll just give you a call, shall I? ~ The President: Yes, I'm not doing much more. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay. Goodbye. Goodbye, Bill, all the best. (U) -- End of Conversation -- CONFIDENTIAL ke1 (u) CONi luCNT AL COHFIDEN1'IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telecon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: President Clinton Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Larry Wright, Tony Campanella, Bob Ford, Tom Crowell, Jim Smith, Peter Huggins DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: FEBRUARY 12, 1998, 4:05 - 4:20 p.m. EST Oval Office Hello? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi Bill. Hey. Prime Minister Blair: How are you? The President: All right. We had a wonderful time with you here. I hope you enjoyed it half as much as we did. Prime Minister Blair: We had an absolutely fantastic time. especially enjoyed Friday night and Saturday morning. We The President: You've turned me into an icon for everyone at the State dinner. Prime Minister Blair: We had a great time. We are so pleased at all the time you and Hillary spent with us; we really enjoyed it. I hope it wasn't too fraught or difficult for you. The president: Everything is going okay from what we can see here; we had a great time and wanted to thank you for that. Prime Minister Blair: Bill, I have a problem now. CONFIDE~lTIAL Reason: 1.5 ( b , e D . . . ' DeclaSS2fy On, ~ '"'-.- ..._~_~ ._--' .-:-...;.-- - -:-" 02/~tlJ~!1~t:J , tONFIDEN':FL"rL The President: 2 I know you do. Prime Minister Blair: I spoke with Bertie Ahern this evening and here is how the land lies. There have been two murders carried out. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) President Clinton: What were they thinking about? Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONFIDEN'fIAL 3 CONFIDENTIAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d) President Clinton: they? They haven't protested their innocence, have Prime Minister Blair: / ~ ~---~ President Clinton: What are they thinking? is payback for what happened before? Do you think this Prime Minister Blair:~r__________________________________________~ President Clinton: Within the IRA? Prime Minister Blair: President Clinton: ever you do? Can you get Bertie to go along with what Prime Minister Blair: / COHFIDEN'fIAL E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) CONE IDEN'fIAL 4 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) President Clinton: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I The only thing we've done so far, because we thought it would be what you wanted, is we got in touch with Sinn Fein and told them they have to make a statement and have the IRA make a statement. Prime-Minister Blair: President Clinton: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I We have said that. I want to do whatever I can to be helpful, really helpful, it's important for me to keep this thing going. I don't want to get in the position of you and me against Ireland. I want some influence over those people ... Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) President Clinton: Let me call him. Give me one more chance to hit these people, to get them to make a tough statement because you can't be caught in the middle of this: you are in a hell of a pickle. Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) President Clinton: Me too. It's so damned stupid unless they have a spli t between them and their bad guys ... CONFI DENT L'tL eONPI DEN9:' IAL 5 Prime Minister Blair: IIE.o.13526, section IH(b)(d) President Clinton: ... and their.bad guys got out of hand and their good guys don't think they have the strength to kick them publicly. It doesn't make a lick of sense. Prime Minister Blair: President Clinton: are lucky No, I agree with that. You are the best friend they have and they there. This is so stupid, this. Let me get in touch wLth Bertie and we'll get back together. I want to do ·it in a way that's possible to keep this going. Prime Minister Blair: I just want to tell ou Bill. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d) President Clinton: I agree. Let me get on this and we will be back in touch. I am really sorry Tony this happened to you. Prime Minister Blair: the way through this. President Clinton: Well, there have been ups and downs all We just have to make sure this works. Thanks, man. Prime Minister Blair: Let's get back in touch. End of Conversation COlqPIDEH'f TAL 3E C!<:E 'I' THE: WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Peter Huggins, Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell, Lawrence Butler, Gwenyth Todd and Joe Marty DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: February 22, 1998, 1:15 - 1:26 p.m. EST The Residence Hello? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hello Bill. Fine, thank you. How are you? (U) Have you talked to Kofi? Prime Minister Blair: I talked to him toda. He said he was going to call me. ~ but not E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The Pr"esident: Well, I'll tell you what I heard. a little intelli ence this morning. We picked up I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) to wait. Now I don't know all the facts, we just have The main thing I wanted to say is that it is really 2 important to stay in close contact and stay determined on this. 1'&) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: All I got is secondhand rumor. All Madeleine has is a cryptic call saying all the elements are in place. Who knows what that means? ~ Prime Minister Blair: . Who does Butler work under anyway? ·The President: He works for the Security Council. the Security Council. 1G1 UNSCOM is I E.O. 13526, section IA(d) Prime Minister Blair: I totally agree with that. The President: This is twice he's done this.· again, it's our fault, not his. Jer ke1 If it happens Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Here's the thing. We need to make sure, in fairness to him and to us, we need to make sure we are speaking in the same terminology. CNN had some damn fool of a reporter saying these sites are smaller than I had led the American public to believe. If you're talking about the palaces, that's one thing. If you are talking about the grounds, that is quite another. If we ask Kofi to revisit where someone is living, some house with a lab in the basement that's one thing. But some of those sites have a hundred warehouse-sized buildings. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) £ECRET I SECRET 3 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: We have got to have another resolution so we don't have to go through this again. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Well, if Kofi calls you before me, call me. if he calls me, I will contact you. I am just going to be hanging around here today_ (~ And Prime Minister Blair: I have to travel for 45 minutes today, but other than that I am in Chequers or Downing Street. You're at Camp David? ~ The President: No, I stayed at the White House this weekend because I think this thing is going to break. OK, we're totally agreed on this situation, then, how do you feel on this Northern Ireland thing? tet SECRET SECRE'l:' 4 KO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Adams is not coming here, which is good news. --<-e-J Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'll do that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I want to work with you. I don't want to undercut you. I'm pleased. Youfre doing well so far, we will just stay in touch. This Iraqi thing might break in the next six hours. -te1'"" Prime Minister Blair: whatever time... (e) The President: Alright. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Bill, obviously itfs earlier for you, but (U) Goodbye. Thank you. (U) Goodbye friend. -- End of Conversation -- SECRE'P (U) C ONFI DENT L"rL THE: WH ITE HOUSE: WASnl~GTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 18 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Peter Huggins, Torn Crowell, Jeff Rathke, Lawrence Butler and Gwenyth Todd DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: February 22, 1998, 4:38 - 4:49 p.m. EST The Residence Hi, Tony. prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill. You're faint. Can you hear me now? (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: I've spoken with Kofi and I gather he's spoken to Madeleine as well. ~ The President: Yeah. (U) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) But I'm not sure. detail? Have you been able to glean any more -k-e"} The President: Well, I haven't. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) 2 CONFI DEN'fIAL I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yeah, I don't think he wanted to talk on the phone, and our guys are guessing on it, too. i€t Prime Minister Blair: ,The Preside'nt: sure. -teT- I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Well, I hope he hasn't either, but I'm just not Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I e Just have to wait and see what happens. If there is another violation we need to seriously consider funding opposition groups and giving whatever help we can and just cut the umbilical cord. +er Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yeah, and it's weird, because Kofi is not coming back until Tuesday. It's going to leak. ~ Prime Minister Blair: It's bound to. ke1 The President:, It would put poor old Butler in a terrible situation. Madeleine talked to him today, but couldn't say much. We don't want him to spout off without knowing what kind of deal it is. --+er Prime Minister Blair: bloke is he? teT The President: Prime Minister Blair: of him? .fE7 ~ C~IFIP£H'I'L'\L I've never come across him. What kind of I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I Madeleine couldn't get the details out CONFIDEN'fIAL The President: 3 No, she doesn't know much more than [ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) He said he's going to have a press conference tomorrow morning. What's he going to say then? The President: We don't know. I think tomorrow morning that he has a'deal but about it until he comes back and briefs in Paris and give Chirac his plane back What else can I tell you? I just don't Prime Minister Blair: Paris? l€1 The President: he's going to say he can't really talk us. Then he will stop and come on over here. know. ~ And there's no one he's going to see in Yeah, no. Prime Minister Blair: Y21 ~ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yep, it's a very tenuous situation, and maybe when he gets to Paris, we can figure something out. It's a really raw deal to sit for a day and a half, not knowing what the deal is. fCT Prime Minister Blair: If he just lands and takes off again ... -f€t" The President: I don't know, I just heard he will stop in Paris and then fly on to New York City. ~ Prime Minister Blair: He may say he won't talk or speak to anybody, but on the other hand, we have got to know what is happening. (-eJ The President: Yeah. (U) Prime Minister E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONPIDENTIAL eONFI15EM'fIAL 4 The President: That's what I worry about -- I talked to Madeleine and Sandy before I talked to you. Let me see what I can find out -- they think it can work if it is strictly administered by Kofi, but we need to know what Butler's going to say about it. J,.e1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I ] Prime Minister Blair: _ The President: Apparently he did that, but maybe Kofi gets to decide who goes back, and when. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / The President: Yep, uh-huh. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yep, but if we can't get it, we have to say what we were going to say anyway. (0 Prime Minister Blair: I think we'd better get working on that right away. I hate being in this position for the next thirtysix hours. ~ The President: That's really bad. Let me call my crowd back and see what they say, what we can work out. I don't like being in this position. -+etPrime Minister Blair: I can try to contact Kofi and tell him that when he gets to Paris he needs to call us right away, that we really need to know what is going on. I think I will try that. -fer The President: Okay. ~ ) L-________________- - - - - - Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yep. (U) E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONFIDEN'PIAL 5 cmlFIDEN'PIAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: Bill, I'll get John Weston to start working On the Security Council thing right away. I'll try to find out some more from Baghdad. The President: Okay. And in the meantime, )k1 (U) :_I___________________________________ _iL_p_r_i_m_e__M_i_n_i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__ The President: Yeah. ----~:J (U) Prime Minister Blair: It's a curious way of doing business. (C) The President: Yes, it's a weird deal. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: That bothers me. Kofi's wait gives him a chance to spin it, and I don't like that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I ~ '--------~ The President: Yes, Madeleine does. there, too. ;ef Prime Minister Blair: I I'll see what we can do ~ L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - - - - - - - The President: Yeah. (U) E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: Okay. Right, Bill--I am here all night if you need to get a hold of me... f€t CONFIDEH'PIAL CONFIDENTIAL The President: 6 I'll do it. Prime Minister Blair: The President: I Alright. Prime Minister Blair: (U) E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Thank you. (U) Thanks, Bill. (U) End of Conversation COHFI Dg~IT L1\d, CONP1DEN'PL"rL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHLNGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) IS CAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 19 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Pat O'Shaughnessy, Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell, Jeff Rathke, Lawrence Butler and Don Bandler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: February 23, 1998, 8:57 - 9:12 a.m. EST The Residence Hello? Prime Minister Blair: we, then? (U) (U) Hi, Bill, how are you doing? The President: Let me tell you what I document. First of all, the ood thin How stand been told about the I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I think we have to study this document and listen carefully to what Kofi says tomorrow. je} . It is important that the commission rush a group of qualified experts -- I think that we have to test the agreement soon. You know, we have to get whatever the agreement is: show up at one of these sites and start looking around. I'd like to do it before I have to move the whole U.S~ Navy around again. Now, COHFI DEN'l' 1M Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5 (bi; d) - _ ;;..ri,---_ ~~sr'-' ~~~ .----~--------"',. Declassify On:! 2/~80 - . _ ] ; __-<~ .-'~:r~~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ). .""..::___ ~ __/:;~-';'/ eOMFIBEM'I'IAL 2 Baghdad has done this before with weapons of mass destruction. -+et-" I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) First of all, you need to get this thing and look at it. What I would like is to be in a position in the next two or three hours to talk to Yeltsin and Chirac. ~ I want to compliment Kofi and say we understand they have agreed to free and unfettered access, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) You guys get this document. He is going to make it widely available in an hour. Let's go through it. ~ [ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) CONn DEH'I'IAL CONFIDEU'fIAL 3 The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Exactly, my view is that we may have another twenty-four to thirty-six hours of word wrangling. We just have to see. )Q1 - Prime- Minis-ter Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Well, apparently, he has some leeway over how the UN structures itself for this special team. He has to know that we want this done correctl , we don't want this to be a bunch of olitical B.S. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) We very much hope this will work out. approach. That's my -ret Prime Minister Blair: are you, Bill? ~ You're going to say something publicly, The President: I'm not going to say anything for three or four hours -- I may not be able to, but I'm going to try. The trick is to embrace the effort, pocket his commitment, and thank Kofi for getting it, and he has never done this before. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) or four hours, gOlng flesh Prime Minister Blair: I agree with that. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: CONFIDEN'3'IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) three 4 CONFIDEN'fIAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Tony, I don't know the answer to that. We haven't studied the agreement closely, and Kofi isn't here, so .we can' t cail him. ~ Prime Minister Blair: No one has spoken to Kofi? ~ The President: He told me he'd call me from Paris. I don't know if he will or not. I talked to him late last night. You know, he clearly thinks he has a good deal, the question is whether his definition of a good deal is the same as ours. Jef Pr ime Minis ter Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: You and I don't want to rain on it, because if we hadn't been tough, we wouldn't have had the damned deal. We can't completely embrace it until we see the details. We don't want to be in the position of buying a pig in a poke and then say, "Holy cow -- we don't know what happened to it." ket Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Absolutely. message is, "Yes, if." ~ Sandy says we ought to say our Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: CONFIDEN'fIAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) 5 eONPIDEN'FIAL I E.O. 13526, section IA( d) Prime Miniiter Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: That's why I just have to leave everyone where they are, because we have to have a test. I have to leave our troops in place. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: We're having a vigorous agreement here.· Any time in the next two hours you want to talk, after you have seen it, let me know. )4 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I wish you would. I understand Yeltsin can take my call in one hour. Chirac said he can't take my call for twoand-a-half hours. That's a long time. He called here earlier, while I was still in bed, and said he didn't want them to wake me. I don't think it's evasion, I think it's just the schedule. It may be better not to talk to them right away. You get the document and parse it a little, and see if there are any holes in the road. I'll try to call you before I talk to Yeltsin and Chirac. Otherwise, I'll just talk to Yeltsin. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The moment I get the document I will look at it carefully. And we can talk later. je1 The President: Goodbye. Prime Minister Blair: (U) Thanks, bye. (U) End of Conversation GONFIDaFfIAL CON FI DEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 20 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: James Smith, Pat O'Shaughnessy, Tom Crowell, Bonnie Glick, Jeff Rathke, Nancy McEldowney, Rexon Ryu DATE, TIME AND PLACE: February 23, 1998, 12:28-12:42 p.m. EST The Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. (U) Tony, how are you? Prime Minister Blair: (U) Fine, I'm fine. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Hold on. Here's one, go on. Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) CONF'IDE1H 1AL Classified by; Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5 (b. ,., d) ~ ... ,,-. ~."Cc-<--.-'.-'-···-·.---·~~' Declassify On:' 2/·· /mf~··" -"".. ,\ "", : INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY " -'~_':'_;::~~~~ _..!.-~~_;-..." -~" ~_~___.:.,~~/.r-----/.' _'- .",_.., _:___ ~ COWFIl)EHTIPrL 2 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Who's the commissioner? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I couldn't agree more. We believe he'll appoint a guy with technical expertise, who will have credibility with Butler, but it certainly needs to be. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I couldn't agree more. You've identified the same things I'm worried about. Sandy suggested a which is quite good; our position on this shoul b to and test. We need to clarif , then test. [ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: CONFIDENTIPrL Yes, I agree with that entirely. ;ef 3 COl>TFI DEN'FIAI:; The President: One thing that we thought of doing, is to get Butler back in the ballgame, because we don't want him out; Kofi is supposed to consult with Butler and the head of the IAEA, and presumably that will keep him from underminin the inte rit . E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) he can get a team In there until What is today, the 23 rd , so that's He doesn't think he can get a good team in there, but I think that having someone say, "we're UNSCOM and we want to check the Ministry of Defense" would be a good way to check in a hurry. te1 ~rime ~inis~er Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: I understand. We need to ask all these questions, but no matter how good his answers, we need an early test. kcJ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: It will take me a few weeks to withdraw troops from the Gulf, so we will sit tight. I think we need to test, as you said, test under 4 but also 5, because there are sensitive sites that aren't presidential sites. Also it will take longer under Para 4 to get started. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I think that is right. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Has anyone spoken to Kofi? The President: I spoke to him last night at 8:30 my time, which was 4:30 his time. He was a little groggy, but he wanted to demonstrate to us that the agreement would fully meet the P-5 instructions he took to Baghdad. I said that's great, but at that time I hadn't seen the agreement. He promised to call me when he got to Paris. I don't know if he's in Paris, but I CONFI DEN'l'IAL COHFIDEH'FIAL 4 understood that he did not want to talk in enormous detail over Iraqi phones. ~ Prime Minister Blair: No, quite smart. ~ The President: Now, let me tell you some good news, potentially. I spoke with Yeltsin, and went over m concerns, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) .Prime -Minister Blair: The President: That's pretty good. That's pretty damn good. .(.e-)- Jer The President: My relationship with Yeltsin is such that all his hard-liners believe I could talk to Yeltsin and get him to sell the oil wells for three dollars and a half, but that's not true. He's just more far-sighted and progressive than they are. Half the time they go to work on him, and I have no doubt that they'll make some effort to undermine this. He was quick and unambiguous, and one thing about Yeltsin, he doesn't like for people to take advantage of him. If Saddam Hussein doesn't do it, Yeltsin would take it as a personal insult to him. I think he wants to do right, so if he can stay hitched, rea y e leve a s have that he'll observe the agreement. If you talk to Yeltsin, I would appreciate it if you would reinforce this. ~. Prime Minister Blair: I The President: with me, to. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) II tel You should say you've talked to me and you agree I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right. spoken to Chirac, Bill? Aer Did you say you've The President: I'll talk to him after I talk to you . And i f I get anything, I may talk to you after I talk to him. .....(-e1 CONFIDEN'f'IlW i 5 CONI"IDEM'fIAL Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d) (C) The President: That's it, you got it. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks. ~ Okay, Bill, let's keep in touch. (U) -- End of Conversation -- CCMFIDEN'l'IAL ~ cmrFI DEf:::::::::::.~~.,::::~;" .~_:'-~;''- ':-'7,,::~~~. . :" :~_.~.~;;_.._.:..~~-. ~ ."..,-{;-\ '~ .. ' . GO~JFIDEHTIAL 2 Prime Minister Blair: Yes. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: about it. Let me tell ou where we are and then we'll talk I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I think they're really ready to go now on the airport and the industrial park, but they keep messing around with each other. I think they're afraid, each for different reasons, to go ahead. I had to put this off until the Iraq thing was resolved, temporarily, at least. What I'd like to do is give them this proposal and coordinate with you. Part of the proposal is that we want them to go ahead and finish the industrial park and get on to safe passage. +er Prime Minister Blair: proposal? -t€t- When do you think you will put forth your The President: As soon as I can. two weeks. ~ Prime Minister Blair: This month; within the next Right. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Arafat is afraid to take a redeployment now and go to final status talks without a guaranteed third one; my view is he can always make a final deal, and more is better than less. ..(..et CONn DEN'fIAL '~.' ': .. ,., . : 3 CONFI DENT IAL Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I think there might be a way to do that. What I'd like to do ... if I could give them the overall proposal first, then we could get together and put this to them. I think if we could coordinate that way, it would give them a way to get started on it. By putting more money on the table, it would create a if they're looking for a reason -- an excuse to go forward, it would be good. k€1 Prime Minister Blair: Right. You reckon you will put your proposal forward in the next couple of weeks? ~ The President: Absolutely. j€f Prime Minister Blair: Some sort of redeployment package including the other issues as well? Jer The President: Yes. fer Prime Minister Blair: Then we could help by having some sort of quadrilateral summit afterwards. 1e1 The President: Yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes. We're ready to go back to them and I think we have some chance of getting them to move. ~ cmlFImmTIAL CONPIDEH'PIAL 4 Prime Minister Blair: I'm set to go to the Middle East in April, early April. Obviously it would help to have something fairly concrete up and running before then. (~ The President: We'll have something by then. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: We had a good day yesterday. They were able to go into the Ministry of Defense and get some records out which I am hopeful will resolve something one way or another. The fact that ~hey ~ere able to get into ministry buildings is a real reaffirmation of UNSCOM's ability to fulfill the understanding Kofi says they got. Now we have to continue to test compliance on sensitive sites, which will happen near the end of the month, but my own view is we should leave our forces there to monitor compliance and keep the integrity of UNSCOM strong. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I ~~I~E~.~O~.1_3~52~6~,s~e~ct~io_n_l~.4~(b.)(~d~)__~1 ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, I thought we ought to fight if off. My own view is that Saddam got what he asked and we got what we asked for, and not to politicize UNSCOM. ~ ,--_____--'7 -J/ L -______________________________ The President: Jer Yes. Prime Minister Blair: The President: ~ Absolutely. Prime Minister Blair: The President: That's right. ~ J Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d), I , ~~. -,.....J'''''}';-"s~.:- - _.-;.-..i. .~-:--...:.----..,-=-....,::::;\. cONn DENTIAL' ,.,'. - . , LINTON LiBRARY PHOTOCOPY '- 'I . • - ,." . r-' . ,.-., , I ~--. ,',' : ~ J"; . ,~. 5 eOMF'I DElffIAL The President: So far I'm feeling pretty good about it. keeping my fingers crossed. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I I'm E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d) The President: Oh yeah. I saw him. I'll call him few days. He doesn't want me to make this the next I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: be down. ...(..e1"" They're really down, and they've got reason to Prime Minister Blair: I think the Palestinians are coupling redeployment with some of these other issues. By all means, if you guys in the United states can put together a big package, that's fine. Since we have so much aid tied up in this, we should try to move on smaller stuff, as well. ~ The President: I couldn't a ree more. move on all three things. I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) leaded for a ear to I Let us put our proposal to them and let's see if we can get together and meet and we can push ahead. That can give them the boost to move to permanent status talks. s,e1 Prime Minister Blair: Right, okay, Bill, just one other thing on Northern Ireland. ...(-e1""' The President: Where are we on that? Prime Minister Blair: ~ We're getting along, basically. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) l..;L:; '~j" 'u • "- 1 ,I,''i_ t',' CONFIDENTIAL 6 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d) The President: You do? ~ Prime Minister Blair: / ~------------------~I The President: We'll do that. Prime Minister Blair: them all. Mo's coming too, isn't she? Yeah, I think she is. ~ So you can see The President: Let me ask you this: have you gotten a good reaction to Straw's extradition decision? »cr Prime Minister Blair: Yeah, I mean we got a good reaction in certain quarters as usual, it was a good reaction in certain quarters and not so ood in others and that's 'ust the wa it is. The President: I will do my best to bang their heads together and caution them on good conduct, but attacks are likely to come from quarters none of us can control. J,.e) I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) ,." ~~.." _,.~[,':-:r~~,;~-'-·-·--· -----. --..-~-----=-~'\\ COHn DEN'!:' Il\L '~LIN:r<2~..L.WMRY.PHP:r6CpPY .- I_ -::,y::,:,·,-::~.:s7-"-·o:.-.-,::. . ;~:::'.:., .J':~'>-'_.';'.o-C~.. ...;. ~_,.:f;"'"",·-::'· .•• f .__ • COHFIDEN'fIAL ; • 7 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: You really think you can go back to the original timeframe and get something done by May? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, I do. ke1 When will the referendum be? Prime Minister Blair: In May. The President: .~ When? fCl ke( Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: Then they think they'll get a bigger turnout for their referendum, too? ;ef Prime Minister Blair: A bit of that, E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) So there it is, really, Bill. just have to keep pushing on . ....(.eY We The President: Alright. We'll be in touch. We'll coordinate with your people on the peace process in the next two weeks, we'll hang around in Iraq to see what happens, and I'll do what you ask on St. Patrick's Day. That's just a week from tomorrow. I'll report back if I hear anything interesting. )Q1 Prime Minister Blair: COI?lFIDENTIAL Yeah, okay. ~ CONf'IDEN''fIAL The President: How are you doing? Prime Minister Blair: The President; along. -ter (U) I'm fine, actually. (U) It looks like your economy's still pumping Prime Minister Blair: It is, I remember you telling me once that once the guys start coming in with good news, there are other guys telling you that it's not good news. ~ The President: Wall Street used to go down every time the ·economy would grow. Now it doesn't go down as much, now that there's been such a long period without inflation. I think if you have the same experience, then soon investors and ordinary folks begin to agree, and that's good news. There's a guy at Stanford who is an economist, and who COincidentally is the son of DNC Chairman Roy Roemer. He's a bit of a libertarian, but he argues that in the technological era, in countries with open markets, the constraints of the business cycle have been considerably loosened, and you can grow more and longer. All of us are essentially underestimating productivity and the most important economic policy is not to limit the ability of technology to prod the economy. ;e1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Well, I hope to goodness he's right. Me, too. ~ ~ Prime Minister Blair: We keep looking across the Atlantic hoping it will happen . .-JRr The President: Well, I think it will. I think it's coming to you, and unemployment is way down, and you've got to stick with it. ..{.e-jPrime Minister Blair: We have a very tough battle ahead on welfare, there are a lot of things to do there. ~ The President: you? jQ1' Are the Tories going to vote against you or with Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)( d) COHFIDEN'PIAL 9 C ONFI DEt-'- .. ;.';-~-"-'---'--~~-":'\ Declassify On:.! 5/~98- " .' 1 i i j, '"~:~_TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ~~_=;::~-,:~~;:~;,---_~"~ '---_ '___>-..~ ;.';,,_;.;.::'-:-._'~__ ./'~;~- ;.t" CONFIDENTIAL 2 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: He has come along, hasn't he? JWf Prime Minister Blair: Yes. They had a U2 concert last night that was great. Instead of having speeches, Bono told them to "have a minute of silence for the victims, which was very clever . ..(..G7- The President: He's a smart man. I met him by accident in 1992 in Chicago, he helped me out and we've stayed in touch ever since. He's a very smart man. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we'll have to keep our fingers crossed. Thanks for what ou did last weekend' it tremendousl helpful; The President: Good. I've just been thinking about you. I couldn't think of anything else. I did a big plug for it during a NATO expansion event. I talked about Indonesia and Northern Ireland at our NATO expansion ratification event. ~ Prime Minister Blair: It has layed ver well here. The President: Yes, but you have to follow the locals. You've done all you can. I was glad to see in my morning intelligence that there is movement in the polls your way. I think the undecided may break your way. +&r Prime Minister Blair: It is possible. I But it sure was the I literally have spent the last 48 hours L-~______________________________________~I right thing to advise. cmlFIDEN'l:'IAL I E.O. 13526, section l.4{b)(d) 3 CONFIDEN'FL"l;IQ;fQGOEY;.J , <~.~~::~t~~& ~')~. .-~~~.,~~t~~,:.;~~, ~ _;i'~:_;.~~.-~~ ;,.~~A~} CBfflBENTtAL 3 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) THE. PRESIDENT: The KLA has put us in a tough position. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes. fr, ==E;.::::O=.1::::3::::5:;:26=,=se=c=ti=on=1=.=4(:;:b=)(::::d)::::;------, THE PRESIDENT: Alright. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: One other thing, on the Middle East peace process. THE PRESIDENT: It's ve I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Right. Good. OK, Bill. THE PRESIDENT: What else do you know? PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Not much. I can't wait to go on holiday. I have got the flu this week and am a bit under the weather. Basically, I'm fine and looking forward to my holiday. But I have reshuffled my cabinet and done my spending plan. We will have an economic downturn this next year, and we have to be careful about that. I called Stan Greenberg today. THE PRESIDENT: Yeah? PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes, he did some polling for us. THE PRESIDENT: You know, the funny thing is our growth was down to 1.4 percent this quarter. It was 5.4 percent last quarter, but we lost ~ painton the GM strike and a full point off the Asian downturn already. We have got to do something about Japan. I am very discouraged about what Obuchi and Miyazawa have said. Miyazawa, when he was Prime Minister, he was already about 72 or 68. PRIME MINISTE,R BLAIR: , I E.O. 13526, section l.P}{4:-k .~ . . ~:·~~~~~RAR1'PBbTbCOPY· ;~;:; J )~i~~l-~__ ~.,.~oL~~~ ~'U'_L/:J'! t· 4 THE PRESIDENT: I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) What they are worried about is not being able to stimulate growth in their economy with tax cuts because they put these curlicues in them and people in Japan take the money and save it, because they don't think they are permanent or adequate. They think if they do all this bank restructuring, in the absence of increased demand and demand for exports, a" it will do is just contract the economy and further deflation. What we have to do is try to work with them to get the necessary mix. I have been prepared to eat lower growth this year just to sop up some of their exports so they wouldn't go down, but this whole thing is going to slow what I think would be a boom in Europe and it is going to brake our expansion unless we can turn Japan around. I don't think there is enough money to move Asia there . independently, without Japan coming back in Indonesia and all the other places. I just don't see it. L...,--_--,-_ _ _ _---,_--:_ _ _ _ _- ' PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: What do you think we have to do? THE PRESIDENT: What we have to do is find a way to be supportive of them without pushing, nudging them along and not humiliating them so they don't hunker down and turn inward. It's a funny little balance we have to strike but we need a coherent strategy. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b) d) but if I get an opening may press 1m an may e ca you an w something. We have to get the Europeans involved. What's going on in Germany? Schroeder is going to win isn't he? PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I think so. THE PRESIDENT: Is Stan polling for Schroeder? PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I think he's doing some work along those lines. THE PRESIDENT: When I was there before I didn't see any --I think Kohl is where Churchill was at the end of World War II: the people are grateful but ready for a change. PRIME MINSITER BLAIR: "'=E=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4=(b=)(=d=): : : ; - - - - - - - - - l ,THE PRESIDENT:! . -_ _hIE~.~O~.~13~5~2~6,~s~ec~ti~o~n~1.~4~(d~)~_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~I' PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: ! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)td) CONFJDENTML 5 THE PRESIDENT: How long has Helmut been in, 16 years? That's a hell of a long time. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: That's right. E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) THE PRESIDENT: Very clever. RIME MIN ISTER BLlAR: IrI=E=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4=(b=)=(d=):::;--------1 THE PRESIDENT: If the vote is close enough, he should do that. I still think Netanyahu would have been better off doing that. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Me, too. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) THE PRESIDENT: You ought to tell him what I told you. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I agree with you. Just today we had the announcement of job losses here as a result of Asia. It's the first time it's been brought home. THE PRESIDENT: I am really very concerned about it. The first place it hit us was in agriculture. We export about half our grain and about 40 percent goes to Asia and we are down 30 percent this year. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Gee. Thirty percent. THE PRESIDENT: And we can't get new markets because of bumper crops and the . climate change caused by el Nino. I think with 1.4 percent growth, unemployment will go up a little. I just don't see any set of scenarios where we do better unless we get Japan turned around. I would guess that you're seeing increased flows to Latin America like we are. Thank God for Latin America, they are doing quite well. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Absolutely right. PRESIDENT CLINTON: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) PRIME MINISTE~ BLAIR:,I!10pe~t.,..... _~<=-----='-",:'.'i' ;,.' ~!; ---,,~~.~.- .~~ - i, .~: "~~ J:-., . ,: !:" fNTONLIBRARYPHen;OCOPY .. ~" ;',,': j;:; ,tL .-~ :,~:.~".~ . .; GONFIOENTb\L DRAFT 6 THE PRESIDENT: Anyway, I think our first order of business should be to deal with the Japanese government. The Chinese are hanging in there and have not devalued, but their target was revised downward. I feel I they will hang in there several more months. There is a limit to the pounding they can take, expectations have been raised. You can see, it is so palpable, they are proud as hell they have stayed strong and have not had to devalue. But at some point, they'll have a hard time hanging on. I think the quicker we could have some sort of EU-US initiative - This was this huge real estate boom, but the Japanese stock market lost 50 percent of its value in the last five years. We're just not getting any reinvestment in growth. The way they have done all tax changes to date, people are saving the money, and they're spending all this money on a world-class big infrastructure that hasn't done anything. I know they are frustrated because, basically, they-have taken a whole series of half-measures and it has not helped them. They have dragged Asia down. THE PRESIDENT: Talk to Prodi. They've been very good at working with us, by the way. Bob Rubin sent a/l our best people over there, but their political mechanism is inadequate. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: II E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I THE PRESIDENT: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) 1 I PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: "----;:=E==.=O=.==13==5=26=,=se=c=ti=on=1.=4(::::b=(==d)::::,-----i THE PRESIDENT: L I_ _ _ ---"-I=E.=O=.=13=5=26;,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4~(d",",)='.I_ _ _.....l PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, the reform movement had a false birth under Hosokawa. Did you ever meet him? PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: No. THE PRESIDENT: 1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes, and maybe not the last. Jospin was here last week. He really loved his time in Washington. CONFIDENTIAL DRAFT 7 PRIME MINISTER BLAIR:\-;========::::;-------~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) THE PRESIDENT: Well, that's good. France and Brazil are two countries that have permanent governments, for good or bad, but have inbred an anti-Americanism that colors the atmosphere and the left in France had a lot of that, as well as the Gaullist crowd, but! always admired the guy so much from a distance. You had a big influence on him, too. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) THE PRESIDENT: I will follow up on Kosovo and get you a briefing on the Middle East. It's a little more ambiguous than the last time we talked. Netanyahu has moved on some issues and there is a chance we can break through. I didn't think he was bargaining in good faith, but now I have seen some change and we might have a shot at it. We'll work out Irish schedule and get the Attorney General to sign off on the legal adequacy as soon as possible. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Again Bill, 101 percent support. THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, I appreciate it, goodbye. PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Goodbye. CONFIDEN'f'IhL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Tony Campanella, Robert Ford, Cindy Lawrence, Sean Tarver, Matthew Sibley DATE, TIME AND PLACE: August 6, 1998, 4:46 p.m. - 5:06 p.m. EDT Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. (U) How are you doing? (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'm fine, enjoying my holiday. Are you in Tuscany? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. (U) (U) God I'm jealous. Prime Minister Blair: Have you been to Sienna? We're going there next week. The President: Oh, that is a great place. beautiful little town? (U) Yes, it is. The President: When I four star restaurant. sign of a fish, like a three-hour lunch there was there about ten years ago, I can't remember its name, but peace symbol, or something. I and they had to carry me out. Declassify On: ,i (U) (U) Isn't that a Prime Minister Blair: COMFIDEN'fIAL Reason: 1. 5 (d) (U) (U) I ate at a it had a had a (U) 2 cm:rFIDE~H'IAL Prime Minister Blair: It's a good place to be carried out from. (U) Are you on holiday? The President: The House is here for another month, one more day actually and so we are all working here. I am going to go on holiday in ten or eleven days. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Weren't you up with Steven Spielberg? (U) The President: I spent the weekend up in Long Island with him. We talked about you. He and Tom Hanks came here last month and showed me their movie "Saving Private Ryan," about Normandy, before it was in the theater. It's an enormous film, really . good. (U) Prime Minister Blair: So you're back in your office. (U) The President: Yes, I'm sitting here in my office. It's a beautiful day outside. I'm concerned about the Japanese situation, really worried. But that is not why I called. Gerhard Schroeder was here yesterday and we had a long talk. He's apparently still leading the polls by a solid 5-8 points. You think he is going to win don't you? kef Prime Minister Blair: I The President: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) He just thinks it's time for a change? Prime Minister Blair: Yes. je1 You can never tell for sure. E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: Well, you know, it's the second time we've met; it was much more relaxed this time. The first time was in Germany and I was on a campaign swing for Kohl ou can ima ine, but we had a good talk I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) GOHFIDEH'f IAL COHFIDEHTIAL 3 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )(d) The President: I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) I The longer you hang around this business, it becomes apparent that very few people make it this far by accident. They don't just give these jobs away. J.Ri Prime Minister Blair: Yeah, I think that's true. (U) The President: I called you to talk about Kosovo. It is getting worse. The headlines show that, but Milosevic is going for a military solution. Serb security forces are not only suppressing Albanian militants, but are also engaging in a systematic campaign against the civilian population. I think we are getting closer to a major humanitarian disaster. ~ Milosevic has a sense of doing this under the threshold for NATO military response because he believes that NATO will respond only with a UN resolution, but Russia guarantees to block it. My view is, at a minimum, we need to make him think again. We need to finalize planning that we started, identify forces and think about some sort of ultimatum to get him to stop the offensive and restore autonomy for Kosovo. ~ I believe we ought to make it clear that, while we would like to get UN authority, we can do it without it. I know you differ here, and Albright talked to Cook about asking the UN Security Council for the necessary authority. U21 Let me tell you we are headed to a collision on Kosovo and what is going on in Russia. I talk to Bob Rubin about every day. I am still quite concerned about their economy and about the stability of the Yeltsin government. His health is deteriorating and a lot of noise is being made about controls on freedoms to get order in society. ..(.e) CONFIDEN'PIAL .4 CONFI DEN'I' IAL What I'm afraid of is, if things get worse in Kosovo, a lot of civilians will be dying and others turning into refugees. If we put Yeltsin into this box, he will be forced to abstain because it is so bad and would really hurt him at home politically with the economy the way it is, or he can keep with Primakov and veto it and run the risk of alienating the rest of the world at the very time he needs the most support from the international community. While it is better to have UN support, I am very worried about bringing this to a vote right now. (C) Milosevic thinks he has a free hand. I talked to you and John Major and I understand you have different system to decide legal authority there. One thing I had our guys do -- there is a .basis:- there have been a number of cross-border incursions and threats to international observers, which could be a trigger for self-defense. Also, there is Milosevic's record of threat to international peace and security and then the humanitarian atrocities. I think we could construct a legal case, but if I can't convince you about it, we don't have a chance with Chirac and Kohl. ).ef E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: The President: Let me ask you this then. Shouldn't we try to get Chirac and Kohl to sign off on ultimatums we would give Milosevic? Word of planning would be somewhat helpful. Convince Chirac and Kohl that a UN resolution is not legally necessary. I know how Chirac is on this, but it will hurt Yeltsin if we put him in a position of having to sign off or block now. .J.e1 Prime Minister Blair: / /J [------------------The President: We can nose around it. His economic problems are horrible and his internal political problems are awful. I'm very worried about this. Yeltsin was going to go on vacation in COMPI DEN'I'IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) COWFIDEN'fIAL 5 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) August, but then he had to come early, even though his health needs the rest. I am going over there and meet with him for a few days in September, but I'm very worried about this. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I ]. '------------/ The President: I don't know, we have to work on that. We have to work through another option, apart from a Security Council resolution. They would have to raise holy hell, but, in the end, if we handle it in the right way, it would be the best of three bad alternatives. Better than forcing them to veto it . . Better than forcing him to eat it. My problem is I am afraid what happens if we let it deteriorate more. There is a rumor, news story, of 500 people in a mass grave. It may not be true, but the other side is trying to force us in, too. We have all those problems you and I discussed before. People want us to be their air force to get independence. But I think the near term problem is we went through all this with the Bosnian civil war and I don't want to replay it with another Muslim population . ..+er Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, that is exactly what's doing it and Primakov gave it to him. ).e1 Prime Minister Blair: / The President: down. Kinkel's impact on their basically it is I'm going to call Helmut first and nail him been aware of where the French are. Given the election, but might help him electorally. But a domestic election, so my guess is no effect. J,e) Prime Minister Blair: COWFIDENTL"rL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 6 • COHFIDEHTI1'.L E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: We will nose around some more. They may decide to shape this and go along with us, but right now I don't see it. ..J!Cr Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Maybe they will want to try to go along with us on a resolution, but I doubt it. Let me mention a couple of .other-things. The Security Council had a discussion about Iraq today with Kofi. I think we have to playa measured game here. I think this is a reaction by Iraq to the fact the IAEA says they couldn't recommend ending the inspection regime and going to monitoring on the nuclear issue. ~ This was a serious report that we had nothing to do with, on very specific issues. It could be they simply overacted, but my instinct right now is to not come out with a bellicose reaction at this point. We ought to be relaxed and work with the Secretary General and focus on inspection requirements. We will just say that we will postpone sanctions reviews until Iraq achieves compliance. ~ Butler was very upfront. I think the Iraqis may have been showing a little leg about it. About every six months they try to provoke us with their rhetoric, but they may come back. With all these other problems in the world we should give Kofi a chance to work through this. If not, then we can say to hell with them and we leave the sanctions on indefinitely. ~ Prime Minister Blair: What about these. reviews? ~ The President: I think they over read the IAEA refusal to recommend ending the inspection regime and going to monitoring on nuclear. The IAEA said they had just a few more things to do here. It would have been reviewed in August for monitoring in October but, for whatever reason, they reacted the way they did. Now is not the time for us to overact. They probably hope we will do that and spend a lot of money moving the fleet back in, but I don't want to do that right now. We'll monitor it closely, but, on the other hand, don't let them think they can wish this away. ~ CONF'I DEN1'L"xL 7 • CONFHlEN'fIAL Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I think we might, but hopefully we'll have our course on Kosovo by then. Two other things. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I talked to'you about Lockerbie. I have the decision memo in front of me and I will work through it as quickly as I can and get back to you on that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: L-----1:1=E=.O=,=1=35=2::6=,s:=ec=:ti=:o=n=1.::4(:::;b::::)(=d)"==!.._ _ _.......J1 The President: 1) I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minster Blair: Yes. keJ The President: You have more riding on it than I do. The Scottish regime has enough restrictions as it is. Go back to your holiday, tell Cheri I said hi, have a wonderful time, and drink a glass of wine for me tonight. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks. Prime Minister Blair: The President: All the best to you. (U) We are thinking of you. We're doing fine. Prime Minister Blair: Thanks Bill. Thank you. (U) End of Conversation CONFIDENTIAL (U) (U) (U) CO!~ ~~ : , 'f,:; ~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY .. ~-.:::~_:.. ~:~~'. . __ ~ _~, ~_~.-'-...:.. ' . ~ i ~_l-!.<'._r.-, · CONFIDEN'fI1II:L 2 Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section tA(b)(d) The President: Well, you know do you think we can get them to meet next week, while I am there? )J2f Prime Minister Blair: It's possible you know. Not impossible. je( The President: It would be huge and help me enormously here with what I am dealing with. Prime Minister Blair: You are here on Thursday? The President: They could obviously do it in Belfast, or they could go to Omagh with us. It would be profoundly symbolic. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) C@JFIDEN'l'IAL 3 COUFIDEN'fIAL The President: I'm not asking you to promise. I had a tough talk with Gerry Adams. It was probably worth doing even though he didn't say yes on five and six. ~ Prime Minister Blair: lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) -The President: When I see you, I really hope we have some time to talk about Russia and Kosovo too. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I agree with that. do is get him confirmed, and The first thing we have to E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) It is rea frustrating; all the money t a wen In as gone back out $7.5 billion. I'll see what I can do over there and work like hell to influence the Duma people. Keep your fingers crossed. When I see you we'll get a chance to talk about it. I can't wait to see you. J...G1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, likewise. See you soon. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. Goodbye. ~ (U) (U) End of Conversation cmfFI DEN'fIAL CONFIDEN'l'IPtL THE WHITE HOUSE DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut no. 34 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, Robin Rickarad, Matt Sibley, Joel Schrader, James Smith, Don Bandler and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: September 11, 1998, 4:33 p.m.-4:58 p.m. EDT Oval Office The President: Tony. Prime Minister Blair: How are you doing? I'm fine. (V) I'm fine. How are things? (V) The President: anyway. (V) We're doing pretty good here. That's my gut, Prime Minister Blair: I saw you on television; I thought you were pretty good, actually. (U) The President: This morning? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. (V) (U) Yes, it was pretty good. It's coming together. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I think that is right really. (U) we're thinking of you. The President: Thanks. What's up? Anyway, (V) Prime Minister Blair: Two things. I wanted to update you on the Northern Ireland situation. ~ CONFIDElf'PlkL Reason: 1.5{b,d) Declassify On: 9/2lL.!;l:8' ___f"~~,,--~<~~·-_c.---~-·L\ r· ~:'~T~NLmRA~Y PHOTOCOPY J ~,?~..: ._~~~_~'-.:..,--~..;-.,...J. '<=';~~~_ .\,-.:...~.--:A_-.-:·<-·'- .' 2 CONFIDEN'l'IAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Tell me where we are. y1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: In theory that is what they agreed to. willing to do any kind of schedule? keJ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Are they ~ I What is the main Sinn Fein argument against it? -+er Prime Minister Blair: The President: The IRA never disarmed and it can't look like the Unionists forcing them to do so? yc) ] Prime Minister Blair:! The President: Well, they made a deal, though. +Gt Prime Minister Blair: / GONF! DEN'l'IAL IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I IE.o. 3 COHFIDE1H' IAL 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The fact is there is a very good feeling in Northern Ireland right now. Your visit went very well. -tel The President: It was wonderful. -f€+- Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree with that. Everybody is so up. The trip to the Irish Republic was unbelievable. There were 50,000 in Limerick. Bertie is in a strong position to weigh in with Sinn Fein. ter =-oJ Prime Minister Blair: L l_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ --~ The President: Let me ask you something. I've been thinkin about all the possible permutations and angles. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I understand why the schedule is not enough. Then he is giving them something concrete that he can't take back and he is gettin something symbolic. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: / IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I COHFI DEN'l'IAL CONFIDENTIAL 4 The President: Let me ask, I understand you announced that you will leave your army in the barracks while your police do the actual patrols. Are they putting any pressure on you to make a symbolic withdrawal of British forces? fer Prime Minister Blair: 1L-____~IE=.=O=.=13=5=26=,=s=ec=t=io=n=1=.4=(b=)=~=)~I______~ The President: Would that matter to Gerry? Jim Steinberg doesn't think you could work a deal with him. I tried to him to ex lain to me what the roblem was E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: This is a big hang-up and they are not ready to cross the psychological divide. I understand and sympathize with them; I am kind of an expert in that. But they did make a deal. I wonder, it seems to me the biggest barrier was they have talked themselves into this position that is linguistically accurate, but politically unrealistic. ~ The deal said they would get in the Executive branch when they get the votes, and they would decommission in two years. They never disarmed, but here they would be disarmed to get something they are legally entitled to anyway. What if we could get the schedule out and there was a symbolic decommissioning, for something outside the agreement, so they would not look like they were coerced by the Unionists? +er I E.O. 13526, section IA(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Do you want me to raise this with him in a whatif way? I won't tell him I talked to you about this. ~ CONFIDENTIAL ~~:,~.f'':'"':~~~~~-:'c-~ ~-~'--- "--~.~, C~~T~~ LIBIU.RY PHOTOCOPY' J '';-'.:'_~ ,---~_:,-,::,._<-;;~-,:-",~::...~~",_;"--<-t.'";~""-_._::~..". r.~_ CONFIDEN'fIAL 5 J IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: I \~--------------~ The President: Are there any other sort of permutations or circumstances that might permit them to do it? keJ Prime Minister Blair: The President: When I talked to Bertie he thought he could take those guys down that did the Omagh bombing. I thought it would be sooner. I had the impression it was imminent when I left Ireland. ~ LP_r_~_.m_e __M __i_n_i_s_t_e_r__B __l_a_i_r_:__/ ____________ The President: ------------------------~ Of course they do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: \ The President: An actual arrest, even if it only just one person -- you've got 29 dead people there. It would be a real coup for Trimble. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) argument you could make. J&r Prime Minister Blair:/ The President: COHFIDEN'l'IAL Do you want me to raise that with him? yn IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CONFIDEN'l'IAL 6 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'll get on it. (;tl ] Prime Minister Blair: / I The President: I agree. The chemistry is a lot better than what I thought. We cOincidentally have a big Irish celebration here in about 30 minutes. They are applauding George Mitchell. I might nose around with some of the Sinn Fein supporters to see what I can do to nudge them a bit. These Americans still have a littl:e bit-of influence because they have money. ).e1 Prime Minister Blair: I \ The President: schedule. Jc.ef Let's explore this idea -- arrests -- plus a Prime Minister Blair: The President: I bet you anything, if you explain that the arms thing is not a big deal because they have a stash, and they are easily replaced. Whereas, the arrest of people who murdered 29 folks in a country that is so small would be a tangible act of good faith. I think disbanding the Real IRA was an act of good faith, but I am trying to work Trimble's politics around Gerry's. +er Prime Minister Blair: / I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I agree. From Trimble's point of view, he is not asking for much. He is asking for something symbolic in return for something tangible. From Adams point of view, it is not such a good deal since he gets a year and a half in return for something he has a legal right to right now. Either you have to get Trimble to change by getting a different good deal, or get Adams to change. Jim Steinberg says we tried that latter course, and he didn't seem very excited about it. It might be worth going back to Adams and Bertie to see if they can't figure out how to identify who has done this. ~ Just because they disbanded, I don't think it is enough for those 29 people, that beautiful teenaged girl who was blinded, COUFIDEN'PIAL CONFIDEN'l'IAL 7 and the other people. They need to arrest somebody anyway. Unless whoever did this left the country, but Bertie didn't think that was the case. Let us raise this with Sinn Fein, and I will have Jim Steinberg nose around with three to four of the most influential here today. -+eT Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Let me say a word about Russia. is they have a government, The ood news I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I am glad that you are hosting this G-7 meeting and Russia will be able to be part of it. It think it would be a good idea to talk to them practically about the lessons learned from other countries with financial problems. I am to call Yeltsin now that he has Primakov in place. The fundamental problem was they proper y Wl putting in place the building that created a vacuum. All the oligarchs and mafia are shipping money out of the country. They want to come back with a solution that they can put old Humpty Dumpty back together again and they can't do that. ~ On the other hand, it is equally true that there are international dimensions here. We have to rethink the IMF deal. It seems to me that we need to develop some sort of pro-growth strategy for the rest of the world. You have 40 percent of the world in recession now. In the end, you and I can't keep our growth going. I just want you to do anything you can to walk the Russians through this and maybe cut them a little slack on some of these macro issues, but hey, you have to build a skeleton before you can have the body of an economic power. You might want to call Yeltsin after this meeting. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yeah. ~ The President: But, I think we just have to get their attention on what they have to do, before it ever gets better there. We need to look at it in the context of a larger settlement. We have even considered paying for their space program for a year so their scientists don't go build rockets for someone else. The scientists on the board of the space program have not been paid for six months. It is unbelievable. I know you have more than you can say grace over, but to whatever extent you can tone CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDENTIAL 8 up that G-7 meeting and to call Yeltsin or Primakov when it is over. % Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I am going to give a speech in New York on Monday on the general outline of what we see. Deputy Finance Ministers in the G-21 have been working for over a year. We have the basis for some work. Maybe I can talk to you when you get here on the 21 st • My instinct is that the G~7 should call for them to at least present recommendations to us and to get heads of state together and show some leg here. Bob Rubin continually cautions me that we don't want to unrealistically raise expectations if we don't know where we are going. ¢ The fundamental difficulty is that you can't get out of the fact that these countries have to do certain things. On the one hand, there is incredible fluidity in capital movements, while on the other hand there is a pro-growth strategy. If they are not willing to have the infrastructure, all this pro-growth strategy won't matter. If we get them juiced up again, the money will flow out and be in somebody's Swiss bank account. It's a tough knot to untie. The IMF tried to modify their approach in Indonesia, but it doesn't necessarily work in the context of massive, breathtakingly rapid capital flow. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I've reviewed what the G-21 people are working on. A lot of it is technical and arcane, but in aggregate it's pretty good stuff. It can make a big difference. It will remain arcane and complex and dense to the world as long as it is operating at the level of deputy finance ministers. My instinct is maybe we ought to talk next week before you corne to New York and we do this conference, because maybe while we are CONE'IDEN'HAL 9 CONfIDEN'f'IAL there we can make decisions and some scenario to elevate the visibility of this and to get world leaders involved. kef Prime Minister Blair: IIE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d~1 ...+-e-r ·The President: It might help. Cardoso is cratering and is facing reelection in October. I am just sick about that. I think he will get reelected, but it will be tough. Let me do the Irish thing and you can chew on all of this. I think you should call Yeltsin after the meeting. Let's try to talk again on this. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: time. (U) Thanks again. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay, Bill. Good. Goodbye. Prime Minister Blair: (U) Hillary and I had a wonderful All the best. (U) (U) Bye, bye. (U) End of Conversation cmlFIDEN'l'IAL .. ,·r COHF'IDEN'l'IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION Telcon with ~ritish Prime Minister Blair SUBJECT: (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Tony Blair Notetakers: Mariana Papadimitriou, Doug Bayley, Matt Sibley, Joe Schrader and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: October 6, 1998, 9:44 - 10:05 a.m. EST Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hey Tony how are you? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hello Bill. I'm fine. (U) I'm in China. Are you having a good time? (U) Is it hot there? (U) Prime Minister Blair: It was until we got here, but we brought some British weather with us. (U) The President: I just wanted to check in with you on Kosovo. Yeltsin called me yesterday, as he called you, to say Milosevic got the OSeE to come in and now everything is going to be all right. I think it would be a real mistake for us to take the pressure off now. Kofi's report is going to be filed today and it is a graphic account of Milosevic's continued defiance of the UN and the International Community. »Cr I believe we have to maintain momentum and keep building a consensus for the NATO decision to authorize force. Dick Holbrooke is there and is still meeting either in Belgrade or Pristina. Fighting has been in a lull for the past few days, COHFIDENTIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5(b,d) Declassify On:i 10/QJ4,Q.~_.j,'_;';;~--'~"'~---·-~----:-~.,· t::INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ~ ~ _ . 1 /J . ·;;'i~_~'"2:~,i.::i.,. :_ ,;.:.~-) :.~~~,; - ;. ::.,---.~~.,:..,..~. .', :.:~-,-.~'>~:' 2 COWFIDEHTL"xL but Milosevic hasn't withdrawn or agreed to measures that would make the end of hostilities verifiable or durable. (C) I would like to find some way to get the Russians on I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I We can't force Yeltsin into a veto. I KO. 13526, section 1.4( d) We have got to tell Yeltsin, look, if you are right and we are wrong then Milosevic will be in full compliance. If he lied to you one more time, then we are going to do it. This is an issue that to me seems to be a real mistake to let pressure up now. U?( - Let me mention one other thing. I KO. 13526, section 1.4( d) That may be necessary but it is a terrible time for me to deal with it with this Congress of mine. They are always willing to give more money to the military and then do not want to do anything with it. There is a really strong block in the Republican party that wants to do that and I have worked to get them to continue to support SFOR in Bosnia. And we really do have a readiness problem. ~ Keep in mind this is the same group that took eight months to approve IMF funding. If we have to do this publicly, it will be a real problem for me. I don't want to do anything to undermine my ability or encourage them to try some eleventh hour measure to stop these air strikes. They will be gone in a week. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I totally understand that Bill. first point I am in complete agreement. IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I CONFIDEN'l'IM On the COHFIDEN'FIAL 3 IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I completely agree with that. I am just saying injecting that now into the public debate would be a problem . .Y:! Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: It also might create problems with some other NATO allies and get them to vote against it and we don't want to complicate our business with .NATO. ~ By the way, Gordon Brown did a hell of a job here yesterday. met with the Finance Ministers and Central Bankers about international finance issues. I went over and met with him. was terrific, you would have been really proud of him. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Bloody bright, isn't he? Yes, he is great. He He (-C) ~ Prime Minister Blair: I will tell him today when I go to talk to him. How are we going to go on this now Bill. ;e( The President: I hope we can get support for the G7 G7 met after we talked last time to endorse the idea the crisis from spreading to Latin America. We will funding by the end of next week and can proceed with emergency plan·. ..J,.e'( plan. The of keeping have IMF the Gordon said what I have been saying all along. We have got to modify the Bretton Woods convention and implement some sort of bank regulatory system that has the effect of doing what bank regulation does in each of our countries and the stock market regulatory systems do, so that we can control the boom and bust cmIFIDEN'FIAL CONFrDEN'I'IAL 4 cycles on an international scale. Bretton Woods dealt with how to have sufficient money to deal with trade and services but didn't anticipate independent financial forces, which leveraged financial instruments, and that trading in money itself would have an effect on the global economy. ~ Bretton Woods assumed 50 years ago that no matter what, the issue would be to find enough money to facilitate trade and investment -- not that money flows themselves would become a greater force of nature in the global economy. We have got to find a way to set up systems to replicate national systems that prevent depressions by limiting boom and bust cycles. There are two ways to do it. You can do it outright or have some sort of oversight. mechanism that requires countries to make those . changes. .ke"1 r think that is where we are going, but we still have to decide. r tried last night, but had a little wrinkle. I tried to get this group of 22 -- I counted 25 around the table -- to accelerate the reporting process. The working group of the deputy finance ministers reports in December/January after which we would have a meeting of world leaders. Aef I think we can do one of two things. If you and Prodi and I want to have a meeting earlier than that they can accelerate the reporting process, which we can meet and validate. Or the alternative, based on this meeting, we could have a larger meeting, or a G7 meeting, and endorse this central idea, that is precisely I I 1-) There is another wrinkle. / Europe is The big three doing quite well and the forecast is for growth. countries in Europe are going to do well also. ~ I didn't want to confuse people and scare them about a worldwide recession, but I wanted to say that Europe has a bigger stake in Latin America than the United States does right now. We have seen bigger credit strictures and a tightening of credit here because of so many bad loans in the global economy. Regulators are cutting off good credit risks because of problems our banks are having elsewhere. ~ COHFIDEN'l'IAD CmJFIDEN'fIA'b 5 I can understand it, but I did not place a lot of stock E.O. 13526, section 1.4 d But they did not disagree with the central idea that was succinctly put in Gordon's comments, which is what we have all been trying to say. I think there is still a chance we can do something more quickly if we want. The big front line test now is what happens to Brazil. Cardoso won the election but he has a lot of people in the run-off elections, three weeks from Sunday, or whenever. They have less than $40 billion in cash reserves now, and I don't think he can stall for three weeks without saying what his reform proposal is. If. Brazil goes south we are all going to suck eggs big time. ~ -r want to go give my speech today -- it is consistent with what you and Gordon said -- and then see what the status of the group is. Then, we'll see if we should have the G7 or some other group meeting where everybody gets together and endorses the idea. The developing countries were there and not one spoke against it. The Thais were there and they're doing quite well. They seem to be in harness on interim measures and suffering contractions because of it. ~ They need a dramatic increase in World Bank investment to build a social safety net, but the problem is financial institutions are running short of money, not just the IMF. The World Bank is worried about having so many bad investments out and that its credit rating will go down. The longer we wait to get consensus, the worse it will be. We can have consensus in the long term. I don't know enough yet, but my instinct is to move sooner rather than later. But I need to let today pass to see where we are and get back to you. You should ask the Chinese where they stand. They have been champs in not devaluing their currency. They have taken some hits for it, but the benefits outweigh the burden. Anyway, I wanted to say that's where we are. In 48 hours we will be in a place to decide whether to get the leaders together sooner rather than later. I am for it but my Treasury department is against it. lef Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I CONFIDEN'fIAL 6 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Do you think we will get any grief for not having the Russians there? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I But they would probably go along? rfl Vl Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree. That is why I want to go in there today and be very aggressive. If Europe and Japan will support this and we have a united G7 front, we will be in pretty good I 'hape. I I KO. 13526, ,octioo 1.4(d) ] Prime Minister Blair:/ I The President: They might like it if we could put outside pressure on them without appearing to. That would be the best of all possible worlds. I need to go over now and give a talk. I will be back to you within 48 hours to let you know where we go from here. How long are you going to be in China? kef CONFIDEN'fIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I CONtIDEN'PIAL 7 Prime Minister Blair: J..ef A few days here and then in Hong Kong. The President: Back on Kosovo, we will be in touch with the French. If the Contact Group meets Thursday we have to go forward with the ACTORD no matter what the Russians say. We will tell them we won't have to do this if your deal works. This guy, all he understands is pressure and he lied before, and pressure will increase the chances that the deal will work. ~ Prime Minister Blair: couple of days. (U) The President: I agree Bill, I'll talk to you in a Okay, goodbye. (U) -- End of Conversation CONFI DEN'!' lAL - - ~:' ,,.-,~r- --~ "c- --~------~""~; \L:.~:~N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY; -::;::'_:" ".,. J ~~~~. ~ _..o-~ __ 'y '~.----r.:..--.:,.... ~"_~'~..':--"~'~_' :.-.r;--_ . , CON'f'rO~N'nAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Liz Rogers, Robin Rickard, George Chastain, Jim Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: October 14, 1998, 2:38 - 2:58 p.m. EDT Oval Office Hey, Tony, how are you? (UD) Prime Minister Blair: Fine, fine, how are you? The President: It's nice to hear your voice. Good. (U) Prime Minister Blair: It's good to hear you, too. Arafat on his way to you. ~ The President: ..'" I saw Mr. How did you find him? Prime Minister Blair: deal. (C) § (U) He still thinks it is possible to do a ;:: :' -",--:,~:..,.-.:..;",:. .:..-~ ...:..-" .-:.---.~-:~ .. 'i~INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY) "-!..::j--:',~:~~~~....~ ..'_.;-:-'_.... '~-Oo;:,. ~-,,_,..:.,_, .;...-'~--,,;.~.~.F;\.;..;(,--...::~'.' 3 Cot1FIlJEN'fIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I agree with everything you said. If you could urge your people to be forward leaning. Maybe we could talk on Monday before I talk to the IMF. The other thing I wanted to mention was Kosovo. We have begun to prepare Congress and the people for the possibility of air strikes. We wanted to ask NATO to authorize operations next Wednesday. I Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I agree with that. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I told Chirac I would talk to him on Tuesday after the UN report is released. Our guys can lead this economic thing, we can say we want a short-term solution and a long-term structural solution that will help. ~ Prime Minister Blair: What do you think about a summit of some sort at some stage? (e) The President: I am in favor of it. If we can get anything like remote consensus, I think we should do it by the end of the (C) year and before the final report toward the end of October. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Like the G-8 summit or something. Yep, maybe even the G-22. Prime Minister Blair: ~ ~ Well, I'm all for it. ;ef If we've Let's see how far we get on Monday. The President: (.Q1 got something to say. How are you doing on Ireland? It will be helpful i f you can intervene Prime Minister Blair: I'm seeing de Chastelain, who is some time in the near future. CONFIJ3EM'l'IAL 4 CONfIDENTIAL the bloke in charge of decommissioning on Monday. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I I gather you made good progress as well on the Middle Eas t . ).,Q1 The President: Yes, I think so. I would say we have a better than 50-50 chance to get a deal, to get them into final status talks. Well, take care. ~ Prim~ MiniSter Blair: Take care. (U) The President: That would be good. We will speak again soon. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation CONFI DEloiT 1AL All the best, Bill. Goodbye man. (U) CONFIDEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut no. 38 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Frank Jarosinski, Elizabeth Rogers and Robin Rickard DATE, TIME AND PLACE: October 25, 1998,2:14 -2:42 p.m. EST San Francisco, California Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi Bill. Thank you. Prime Minister Blair: Congratulations. It was terrible. (U) +e! IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I was going home every morning at two or three. The last go around dragged on for 36 hours, like the Irish thing. But to be fair, the difference was you were integrating both into one political system. Here we were dealing with two diverging political systems. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFIDEH'fL"tL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5(b,d) De cl ass i f y On:':· 1 0/2 ~,O 8ioo?"""'~~~_O"-'-~--~~"'~, ~:;~~-~:RARY PHOTOCOPY 'J ~?~~'.:~:.·'<:-r~;_:;··~::-'::";'---';~~;~;'o-·o;'.:_.,,,-...,/:-'-; , 2 CONFIDEN'fIlltL ,. When you were doing the Irish thing, you were actually in it with them -- you had some leverage. All I can do is give them money and my time. Here I just had to talk them through it and wait it out. It took 85 hours. In the end, everybody pats me on the back; but they have to take all the flak; Arafat took some too. -t€+If it works, I think we have a chance to break the whole thing open. If this is faithfully implemented, this mra~k~e~s~t~h~e~______, ultimate resolution of bilateral issues easier. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I e Israe-lis know in the end they have to have an agreement. good, but we still have along way to go. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I know exactly how you feel. I feel ~ The President: It is a lot like the Irish thing, there are a lot of similarities. But you are in it with them. You have more moral authority. You have to make a decision to release IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 I I t is an prisoners. I don't. I interesting thing. (C) Prime Minister Blair: I was absolutely fascinated watching this on the news. It was a real roller coaster, wasn't it? ~ The President: It was amazing. We had the agreement, then it got undone. We had a deal. You see there were two prisoners. Most can't understand, but ou know what symbolic significance prisoners have in Ireland. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: COHFIDEN'fIAL I can imagine. ~ 3 CONFIDENTIAL The President: The beautiful thing about it was Hussein, who looks l.ike he is at death's door. ;e1 Prime Minister Blair: He is an amazing man. ~ The President: Hussein kept telling them to think about their children. It was a thing of beauty. I would fly him down and he would wait in his house for 30 to 40 minutes for them to come down. Then he would lecture them in a fatherly way. It was bizarre. +er Prime Minister Blair: I thought this would be an extraordinary To-have done it is a tremendous achievement. Even - making all allowances, it wouldn't have happened unless you had been there and done it yourself. ~ thin~. The President: There was no way. For you it is the same. But there is a limit to how many times you can do this. I had to just get there and listen to them for hours and hours. ~ Prime Minister Blair: We end up being part negotiator, part therapist, and part leader. ~ I The President: Someday we should write a book together about these two things, about our role as shrinks. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I could tell when I saw the signing ceremony. I could just tell what must have been going on -- the nightmares to not let it disintegrate. You see they needed a figure there. This is what you will have done. You will have brought them to see in the end that both of them had to do the deal. -t€-)The President: I don't have any question that I did the right thing, but it was tough for them. I tell is one thing I would like you tOrrd=o~.~~I~w~i~s~h~~o~u~~~~~~~o~f~f~a~____, letter to both of them. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) ~~==~====~------------~ Prime Minister Blair: I am supposed to phone him, but I will write him a letter. I will definitely do that. Aef The President: Call him, but if you write a letter, it can be released. I know we need to talk about finances and Kosovo a bit, but, the other thin; I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CQNn DENT IAL CONFIDEN'fIAL 4 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Mi ni s t e r BI air: / r:::-::o--:-:-::-:--:----:--:-:-:::-:-~ IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I f ~~~~__~~__~--:---:-__~~~~~~~________~__~~~I Okay, Bill, I will certainly do that. And once again, well done. It was a real personal triumph. ~ . The Presiderit: Thank you. (U) Prime Minister Blair: We had Arafat out to the EU get together -- this informal European summit we just had. He told us a bit about it. I will try to gear up the other Europeans to do the same. The President: Okay, let's talk about Kosovo briefly and then go back to finances. What is your sense of where we are on Kosovo? )Z1 Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I got it. Last night Wes Clark literally stayed up all night working on him. Milosevic agreed to a specific set of things that most reasonable people would conclude if he did between now and the day of the ACTORD, the 27 th , he would be in compliance. The one thing that is most important is that nothing we and the French say between now and then should look like anything other than that we are prepared to put the planes in the air. We are on the same wavelength. {et I think that he will do enough to comply for us all to agree that he's done what he has to do. In the last several days, he has done a lot of things to comply but also some backsliding. We just have to hang in there. -+etcmlFIDKNTIAL CONFIDEH'FL7I,L Prime Minister Blair: that. 5 I agree absolutel. We are at one with IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That is good enough right now. I don't want to give him mixed messages. Based on his meeting last night with Wes, he will stick on compliance enough that we will not have to use violence, but only if he thinks we are prepared to do it. t,.ef - Prime Minister Blair: We are absolutely agreed on that. +e1 The President: On the financial issues, I have a couple of things. I got your letters last week and Bob talked to Gordon Brown. There is a lot of good stuff in there. I would like to propose that we try to put this in context of the heads of state of the G-7 statement. ~ I would like to give you my view of this and let you respond. First of all, I think we should be looking for -- without raining on what Gordon has done so far -- I think we should be looking for a G-7 statement from the leaders themselves addressing long term reforms and the short term crisis as well as the banking legislation in Japan and what we did with the IMF here. ~ What I would hope we could do, because I think Rubin has a good sense of how the markets will react, is ideally to get a statement out next week, with or without a conference call with our G-7 colleagues. It's your call as G-7 leader what you would like. Then we would have a statement and it would have the existing consensus on the promise for reform, on a detailed agenda and procedure for achieving consensus. JR1 It would be good if we can get others to agree on this and on a financial architecture. And I would also like to see, and Bob thinks this is really important, an agreement on the proposal for precautionary financing facility. In addition, we could then or later also endorse the package for Brazil that the finance ministers are working on. We know the shape it will be in and who will pony up the money. ;e1 CONFIDENTIAL CONFIDEN'l'VlrL 6 It is okay for the finance ministers to announce it, but we need to ratify it in the context of our statement next week -- or when w~ get it done. If Gordon and Bob Rubin could work to build consensus around these elements, we could then have two complementary statements. First, a leaders' statement describing key elements with consensus on long term reform, endorsing the precautionary financing facility and also endorsing the Brazilian thing. Then the finance ministers and central bank governors could lay it all out in greater detail. I think if you have the finance ministers do something without the leaders at this time, it doesn't break through with the necessary force. Je1 Prime Minister Blair: I am in total agreement with that. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: One thing I can't figure out how to do, is to find a device that all of us can live with directly or indirectly to put limits on the degree of speculation while leaving markets open to trade, investment, and even appropriate hedging against currency reevaluation up or down. We can't have over a trillion dollars a day changing hands without some regulatory limits. We car.'t afford to have hundreds of millions of dollars moving on a 90 percent leverage where they only have to put up 10 percent. ~ Prime Minister Blair: We need prudent rules. ~ The President: You just can't have 90 percent leverage -- the compounding is devastating. You also have to have some way to buy the private sector into this to stop hemorrhaging outflows from these countries. Some don't feel this way, but these capital credit controls for the short term can work -- just like if the market drops more than 10 percent in a day, we can suspend trading. But they don't work over the long or medium COl?lFIDEH'fIAL 7 COHFI DEN'l? IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) term. Malaysia cas h res e rve s. r---""--O.";",;""==,,;:,,::,,,=-==--,-,-='--..C::,=::,,::,,--=,,:::,,:::,,:::,,:::,:::,,,:=-=::::.r.-=.:=::..:::...--.:::.:.; Prime Minister Blair: I agree. These ~re other things we need to look at. If we do a leaders' statement and finance ministers' statement, it obviates the need for a summit now. .JK} The President: One thing particularly if there are that our absolute outside meeting, leaving open the or Ja-nuary _or if we think we should leave in reserve, adverse reactions in the market, is deadline should be the next G-7 possibility of a meeting in December we have something else to say. j£'( But let me say, this is more about your European political situation than mine. Two things: number one, it is important to have the leaders' statement and let the finance ministers fill in the blanks because you have a new leader in Germany Prime Minister Blair: The President: Absolutely. ~ And we have a new leader in Italy Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right. ~ The President: It will empower them and makes them members of the club. I think it is very good politics. ~ Prime Minister Blair: It is why I am anxious to do it. s otted it absolutel . You IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Alright. Have you talked to Prodi? I CONFIDEN'f'IAL E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) COtilfIElEHlIAL 8 IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he is. You probably don't know D'Alema, do you? The President: No. Prime Minister Blair: ~ I :J L-____________________- - - - The President: He did a good job. got a chance to call him. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I'm just sick. I haven't He would like that. The President: There are center left governments in every country in Europe now. ~ Prime Minister Blair: It is interesting with its possibilities, but it also poses problems. (e) The President: Now that we have the responsibilities we have to bear the burdens of the consequences. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The summit was quite interesting -- the (Q') The President: I'll have Rubin follow up with Gordon Brown. We may want to do a conference call next week. We can put out our general statement on architecture of the precautionary financing facility and ratify it when it is done. ~ Prime Minister Blair: That would be great. The President: I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) us greater credibility. )£1 Prime Minister Blair: CONFIDEN'FIAL Absolutely. ~ i t will give 9 _ COMf'IDEliffTAL ,' The President; We also need to show we are serious on Brazil. !z') Prime Minister Blair: Okay Bill. (U) again congratulations. The President: Okay, goodbye. All the very best'and once (U) -- End of Conversation CONFIDEH'l'IAL COHFIDEN'PIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASH I NGTO N MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Tony Blair Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Frank Jarosinski, George Chastain, Jenny McGee and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: November 3, 1998, 3:29 - 3:37 p.m. EST Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill, how are you? (U) The President: Fine, how are you doing? It's election day, so I am just sitting around. Essentially, the elections are going well. These are good times, but the Republicans are in the majority and have more money than we do. Not since 1922 has the president's party gained seats, but we are doing well and the exit polls look good. They have outspent us, but we essentially have a good message going. (U) I understand that you have been briefed on Bill Cohen's message on Iraq. I really appreciate all that you have said publicly, but I still think that we have to take decisive action this time to respond to Saddam's challenge. It is clear to me that Saddam really wants to force the Council to lift sanctions without giving up his weapons of mass destruction and missile program. The Vice President talked to Crown Prince Abdallah today in Saud'i Arabia, and he promised the support that we need. Bill is discussing the details with him tonight in Riyadh. ~ We are working on a resolution for the Council, and I hope that it can be finished in a couple of days. But it seems to me that we need to be in a position to act soon, rather than drag it out. We need to be in touch with Chirac. I still have questions about what they would say about the use of force. The COHFI DENT IA1 Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1/5(b,d) ... ' Declassify On: _. 1l/0Y~-GB~,J'7C:'';;':''-~-'O-~~"-~'-~--'-~""'\. i~tNTON L;:BRARY PHOTOCOPY -:r i?:~:~;~!:4;:~:~;;~.,.);"i;-;~.:;~-.>-~,-:\~.~.~~:.~:_---/.,~.~",\. 2 COPlFIDENTIAl French have been great in their public comments -- they have been tough on Iraq -- but anything that you can do to keep Chirac .on board. I will call him tomorrow. -tetPrime Minister Blair: The President: Maybe I should call him. I think you should. ~ ~ Prime Minister Blair: I actually made my comments in a press conference with Schroeder yesterday. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 next day to see where we stand. I will talk to Chirac in the ~ The President: As far as the Russians are concerned, they seem pretty angry, too. jQ( Prime Minister Blair: JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) J The President: I agree with you. Kofi seems to be keeping his distance since Saddam shafted him. What do you think about sooner rather than later? ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J COIU'I15EWf IAL 3 'CONTI DEN'!' TAt IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I agree with that. Prime Minister Blair: ~ ~ How soon were you thinking of, Bill? The President: I don't know. I was thinking of over the next several days. It will take time to set things up and to develop a case against him. I've got to know who is dancing with us and who is not. I just wanted to check your temperature on it and ask you to call Chirac. On the details, we need to be in very close touch and work together. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Keep your fingers crossed for us tonight. Prime Minister Blair: Bill. (U) The President: Thanks. All right. Goodbye. All the very best to you, (U) -- End of Conversation CONFIDENTIAL (U) THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 20l3-090, document no. 40 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom NOTE -TAKERS: Bonnie Glick, Sean Tarver, Joel Schrader, David Higgins, Jim Smith and Roger Merletti DATE, TIME AND PLACE: December 11, 1998 -- 1:00 p.m. - 1:15 p.m. EDT Oval Office The President: Hello. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill. Hey, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: Fine. (U) How are you? (U) I am at the EU summit in Vienna. (U) The President: Is it cold in Vienna? (U) Prime Minister Blair: It is absolutely freezing. cold, but a beautiful city. (U) Amazingly The President: I just wanted to check in with you on Iraq and Ireland before I go to the Middle East this weekend. On November 15, we said we would hold off on any strike while we test Saddam's promise to cooperate with UNSCOM. So far, the results have been mixed. There has been a lot of monitoring, which is easy for the Iraqis to accept. But, UNSCOM was blocked at Ba'ath party headquarters this week. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. ~ _______________________ ___ 2 ~he President: And they've received only 1 of 10 documents they asked for, and Iraq is making inspections harder than they have to be. I can't tell if they are trying to get some concession on sanctions review, or if they think we can't do anything at this time of year. If Iraq blocks another inspection this weekend and if Butler finds that they are not cooperating as they are required to do under the October 30 Security Council letter -- if he actually says that -- I am inclined to think that we should take the action that we suspended in November. But, if he isn't significantly undercutting UNSCOM's ability to do its job and Butler says that, I think he will simply have slipped the disarmament noose forever. Now, we have a very narrow window to operate with because of Ramadan and my going to Israel this weekend. We will need to talk, and I will have to find you wherever you are. If the inspections are not blocked, then we have to figure out how to handle the comprehensive review issue. Do we delay it or go forward? If we delay it, there will almost certainly be a crisis, and out of respect for their faith, we can't hit them during Ramadan. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We don't have much, I don't think. Prime Minister Blair: ~ No. IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I It's The President: We think we can get them out in 24 hours. a much quicker turn-around. This may be part of what he is miscalculating. He may think he will have more notice than he would. yt'll / TQf .sECRE'f 3 Prime Minister Blair: Right. What happens if we start to take action and Shen Ramadan starts, as it were? Ramadan starts next Friday? (j'1) The President: If we start on Wednesday, we have enough time. They assure me we do. (jl) . Prime Minister Blair: Ramadan? ifj) The President: We can do it. (l~s, Then, we can go in and get out by we have four days. That's plenty of time. ~) Prime Minister Blair: E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) So, Butler is going to try to get more access tomorrow? ..k8'f The President: says. ~ He has two more days, and then say whatever he Prime Minister Blair: say? -+&r Right. Do we know what he is going to The President: No, we don't. My gut is that he most likely is going to say that he got some cooperation, but not full. This will make us think really hard on whether we can in good conscience vote for this comprehensive review, and if we don't, he will provoke a crisis over that. It seems to me that it is pretty substantial that he didn't let them go into Ba'ath party headq~arters. Anyway, you will have to talk to your folks, and we may have to talk again in a few days when I am in the Mideast. -+&JPrime Minister Blair: Okay. ~ The President: Anyway, the other thing I wanted to tell you was that I talked to Trimble and Adams on Tuesday. I missed Hume because he had to leave for Oslo. I made it clear privately and publicly in a speech that decommissioning is essential, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) What do you think is happening? J.Z! 4 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I did all I could. can do, just let me know. ~ If there is anything else I Prime Minister Blair: There may be a time to speak to Adams again, but, for now, it is for us to sort out. ~ The President: Okay, I agree with that. I just wanted to mention very briefly that I am going to make a real push to resolve the Cyprus issue next year. But, before that, we have to avert this missile problem next month. I hope when you see Clerides on Saturday that you persuade him to stop delivery to Cyprus. It would be terrible. I hope you will do what you can. You really tried to get the ED to soften its stance on Turkey. I don't know if the coming of Schroeder helps at all. Maybe, you can et a little better Ian ua e in our statement in Vienna. I think this missile deal rea ly bothers me because of the Russian connection, and I see so much in Russia going south on us. Their space scientists haven't received a check in eight months, and they could be making' a fortune on missile launches from us. I ~ 3ECRE'I' /' I 5 SECRE'f I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) If you could make headway, Prime Minister Blair: tomorrow. Oka, Bill. I would appreciate it. I will speak to Clerides The President: After the first of the year, after I get all this crap behind me, I would like to talk to you about this. ?-f Prime Minister Blair: I'd like to talk to you about a bunch of things because there is a lot going on here in Europe. yei The President: How is Schroeder working out? ~ J Prime Minister Blair: ~----------------The President: I had impressions watching his campaigning that they adopted rhetoric similar to ours, but they didn't think it through. You had a program to implement and so did I, and that's a big difference. ~ prime Minister Blair: Actually, I like him very much. The president: I do, too. The reason I mentioned this is because I had a good talk with him on Turkey. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Now, ere are other prob Turkey, such as human rights. Anyway, you might nose around Vienna and see if you can send him help. +eT Prime Minister Blair: Sure, I opportunity at dinner tonight. The President: There rna be an I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Tp('eECRE'P / TOSE,CRET '7- 6 T Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: As Christians, we are supposed to help whether people appreciate it or not and it's the season for it. See you soon. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Alright, Bill. All the best. Prime Minister Blair: Bye. Bye. See you soon. (U) (U) -- End of Conversation -- / ~SECRE! (U) TH E WH ITE HOUSE WAS HI NGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Tony Blair Notetakers: James Smith, Roger Merletti, Frank Jarosinski and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: January 21, 1999, 2:26-2:53 p.m. EST Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill. Kosovo. I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5 (d) '-" >9-J~"-'''''''--"~-=~-~-'--''-''''~'--':''>~~' , Declassify on:! 1 /~' l' 'f i .." ,- 'i~()NJJB~RYPHo;rocOPY' '1 I - .~.:~::::~::::":=~~=-_ ~;;;:";'',!'~-=:;' _.,'~ --.k : ~:~L-:~_-.. __..L~..-,..:~.-:-' cmrn DEHT IP.L 2 be determined not to let him undermine the KVM and work over Walker. I don't want to be slow or indecisive. I will try to get Congress to go along with me and not stop it. (R:') Domestic politics aside, my problem about ground forces is that if we send them in without some type of agreement beforehand -it doesn't have to be as detailed as Dayton -- I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I really think we have to do somet ing, but I know if we do military action without a political plan we will have a problem. ...(.GtPrime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I agree with that. On the other hand, this is likely to be one of ·!:JieSe things where we can't see completely to the end. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I eave 0 eep working on it. We are in a much different situation than we were legally and politically in Bosnia because the world has said these people deserve autonomy but not independence. I don't want to get into a pickle, but now that 45 people have been slaughtered and Milosevic is trying to throw the KVM out, we don't have any choice but to do something. ~ CONPIDEN''fIAL · COHFI DElff' IAL 3 Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: One thing is to go to them and say, "Look, if you want us to do any more you have to help, too. They probably have as many violations of cease-fires as Milosevic, though his are more egregious. "For a long-term resolution you have to come to the table too, you can't have it both ways, and you never take any responsibility. J,K1 U /I Prime Minister Blair: The President: It's important we do that. ~ They may ignore it but we have to try. Prime Minister Blair: we may get somewhere. ~ If we do that in a really concerted way, I think it very important we do that, IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That makes a lot more sense. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair·~~s. (U) The President: It is a very difficult problem and I don't pretend to have all the answers. We have to be careful not to be weak and move decisively with NATO now, knowing it won't solve the problem without a political resolution. E.O. 13526, section 1.4 d to sell COMn OEM! IAL ln an lmposslble posltlon. I may not be able time with Congress, but I certainly can't do 4 CONFIDENTIAL it unless there is an appropriate environment. I think we r - -..... we have to keep working and go full speed ahead with NATO E.O. 13526 section 1.4 d Prime Mihister Blair: The President: I think that is exactly right. I agree with that. That is good. ~ ~ Prime Minister Blair: L -_ _-------------~ The President: I agree. That is what we need to do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree with that. Prime Minister Blair: The President: GONFIDEH'f'IM. ~ Okay, Bill, let's keep in touch on that. Can I do anything? Can I help at all? (U) 5 • C3HFI DEN':' L,\L E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'm really worried. Gerry Adams was here not long ago, and I had a firm talk with him. I am really getting kind of frustrated by them not doing anything. yel . Prime Minister Blair: The President: You just let me know. have not hit a lick of this. ye) I am concerned that they Prime Minister Blair: I The President: ),Q1 Yes, it does. I don't know how .. just bizarre. LP__r_i_ffi_e__M_i_n_l_.s_t__e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__: ____________________________________==:::> I r::IE-.O-.-c-1':-35::":2-::-6,-s-ec-ti=-o-n-1.-4(-b:-)(--'d)I CONFIDENTIAL , CONFIDEHTL'I:L The President: 6 All right. What else? ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Let me tell you what we're going on and what the lay of the land is. We tried to negotiate to get a solution to the EU restrictions in '92. I would still like to do it. The problem now for me is, I don't have any flexibility for delaying. Congress was going to impose them by statute, and that-was trouble that I headed off. But the only way I could do it was by sending them a letter that said I would do it, and basically there is a little time left. February 1 plus 10 days, then there is probably another week after that before customs could enforce it. If there is any way you think your guys have flexibility and work out a solution I would like to do it, but one operation here lost nearly a billion dollars since this all happened. The law is pretty clear. I don't want to do anything to cause you problems. In principle, I don't want Congress legislating in the trade area. We had to send a letter that we would do it, and now time has run out. So if there is anything we can do, I will do it. I don't want to cause you any trouble but we're sort of stuck on it. Jer Pr ime Mini ster Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I know it does. I've been fooling with it a long time and also some people who are pushing it have enormous influence in Congress and I know them well. We sort of delayed this for years and if there is any way we can resolve it, it would be a good thing. yef Let me ask you another thing. another year in office, Menem was here and he said he has I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I He has a great economic policy. We're trying to stave off the financial crisis from reaching Latin America, and Brazil is shaky" He asked i f you might be able to do something on it. The thing he mentioned the most was travel. ~ Prime Minister Blair: CONFIDENTIfJ, I~.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I I (C) 7 .C ON F I DEIfy I f.L The President: It's something you might think about. He would like to work out some accommodation. The thing he mentioned three different times was travel restrictions. ~ I Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 He was here last week.L-~~~--~~==~~~~==~====~----------~ The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) There was a war, which they lost, and he understands that. But there are Argentines with relatives there, or relatives buried there, and if they could get some across, to get access to do things. Whatever happens, if you could look into it, without raising the fundamental questions from the war, it would be positive for you and him. Je1 Prime Minister Blair: speak soon. ~ Okay. Okay. Bye. Prime Minister Blair: Bye. The President: I will look at that. (U) (U) End of Conversation ..- :; CONE'IDElfrIAL Bill, we.' 11 cm;rFIDENTIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WAS DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 42 DECLASSIFICATION DATE; October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION. SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: James Smith, Roger Merletti, David Higgins, Matthew Sibley, Elizabeth Rodgers, Robin Rickard, Michael Manning, Larry Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: time. (U) February 4, 1999, 2:13-2:30 p.m. EST Oval Office Nice to hear your voice. Al had a wonderful Prime Minister Blair: It was great. He went down well. He was fantastic with all the New Deal programs. He met with all those business people. The unemployment program was really impressive. I thought it was a good visit and he was fantastic on it. (U) The President: He also liked when he went into Prescott's office and the only decoration was a bowl of bananas. I heard (U) all about it. He was very happy. Prime Minister Blair: I hope we get all that sorted out. (U) The President: My staff won't let me talk to you unless I have a banana at hand. I'm sitting here with a banana; it's a big, ugly, brownish one. (U) Prime Minister Blair: about Kosovo. ~ COHFIDENTIAL Reason: 1.5(d Declassify On: Now Bill, I thought we should have a word 2 CONFIDEH'fIAL The President: Yes. Let me tell you, the Prime Ministers of both Macedonia and Albania were here today and they make .us look like old men. They are 31 and 33 years old. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I Prime Minister Blair: I think Robin and Madeleine did a reall~ good job and we got a plan. The parties are coming on Saturday and the KLA are involved, as well. That is all good. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I agree. Prime Minister Blair: (C) IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: First of all, I agree with everything you say about maintaining pressure on Belgrade and the Kosovars on the interim settlement. I'm encouraged by Saturday's talks. There is no other way it works over the long run unless we can get a peace agreement and troops on the ground. -tc+- I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) It is a hard sell in Congress. They still lecture me on Bosnia and how we didn't pay for it in advance. I tell them Bosnia is a great success story and they ought to be proud of it and keep it going, and not let it be wiped out. I gather there is a general feeling that a lot of European countries are willing to make troop contributions. That will help me to get Congress to support participation. You know I always want to be part of these things. ~ CONFIDEN'fIAL 3 CONFI DENT IA L I just gave a speech today. I basically said we were considering our participation and talking to Congress about it. I will make the strongest case I can, but our system is that they have to come up with money for it. The more European countries that are willing to participate and the greater extent, the better luck I will have with the Republican Congress. .J.I21 Ironically, all the business with me might help us get something done here. I think the announcement of substantial British participation, which I gather is your decision, will help us a lot. I want to help and I made my first big public pitch today. We will work with Congress and stay in close touch. Our military people are in contact and are simultaneously designing this concerning who contributes what. I will do the best that I can. I wish I could give you a number now, but I don't know what level yet. I am working it and I'll do the best I can . ..k81" Prime Minister Blair: Well, Bill, that is great. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Great. Let me say, there's one other thing that would help me. If you put out that we talked, say that we have this under active consideration. That is what I just said publicly. If you could not say that I have made a definite decision. Because the Congress is Republican, at every public hearing we have, they start moping and saying that I expect them to fall in line afterward because they never refuse to support the troops. If you could say I haven't made a decision, that would give me another day to massage the congressional psyche and break it loose here. kef Prime Minister Blair: Don't worry, that is absolutely fine. That is very good indeed. Thanks, as ever. ~ The President: Well, you are doing great. press in the New York Times. (U) Prime Minister Blair: CONFI DEH'l? IAb Well, You even got good it cost a lot of money. (U) 4 The President: You got good press in the New York Times and I got a good editorial in the Guardian. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Guardian. ·(U) Yes, you got an editorial in the The Pres iden t : They said I was more 1 iberal than you. know if that is good or bad. (U) I don't·· Prime Minister Blair: Well, it's good for you. Your state of the Union, as I suspected, had a big impact around Europe. I was in Vienna last week with center-left leaders. It made a big impact there. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: We need to think about our next steps. thought that NYU conference was good. ~ I Prime Minister Blair: They (the Center-left leaders) are absolutely desperate for it. They now buy entirely the argument that we can learn from America. The State of the Union did help. The leader of the United states was talking about building a cohesive, peaceful society and the rest of it. It was language they can understand. JR7 The President: Yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I think we certainly should do some more. They are desperate. ~ The President: One thing I think you should have your guys thinking about. What is our response to tough challenges? Like, is there a third way response to financial crises? How do we stop the reversal of trade liberalization and take it up again? With all these troubles in Asia, the temptations to close down the movement for trade liberalization will be great. -i-et" Prime Minister Blair: I think that is absolutel to be a big part of our discussions. IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 COHFIDEH'FL"rL . ~-;~--.ft~F'c'=~~c~~~-"'~! '~~INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY . ~~~_:~~~.-..::_ ;~"~~.!~~,",,-_';_:::::~~~J....""" L r.~;....'i.,- right. It has 5 CONFIDEHT L,\L IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The president: I agree with that. I think when we do the next G-8 meeting we really ought to give some thought to setting up our trade position and also think about what wrinkles need to be in the finance system position as well. We will have a lot to talk about in advance, but the G-8 will give you a forum and me a forum and our crowd a forum to elevate some of these issues. J..&r Prime Minister Blair: I agree completely. vtI The President: We will be in constant touch the next few days to wrap it up and nail down what to do. ;e1 Prime Minister Blair: King Hussein. I'm really sorry. Je1 What a terrible thing. The President: Yes, he just left here. He is going home on life support. You know he did his best, but I will be surprised if he pulls out of this. -+et Prime Minister Blair: I just saw him a couple of days ago and thought he was looking better. (e) The President: He had a severe relapse. Noor brought him over here. I just think that this is the way these conditions are. They overwhelm your system and you have nothing left. Y1 Prime Minister Blair: other thing. CONFI DEN'±' lAL It's a shame for the guy. IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I (,,~~?-ffi;~~i""~-,-,..·=~p~,-·-..-c;""1 INTON LIBRARY t ,. . PHOTOCOPY' ..",. .. - ~" '.'-,~.. "'~~"..~~.' . . -.--~. ..,.....-.',.'..""7",.~;'.~\~~~.:':'>-.<- ,;" '," Bill, just one .IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 6 CONFIDENTIAL The President: Any time, day ar night. It is my awn private passian . . I have been warried far yau. To. the peaple an the autside, it seems idiatic that we wauld allaw these elements to. disrupt progress. You are where you are and whatever I can do to. disladge it, let me know. If you have something specific for me to come at them with, let me know that, too. -tet Prime Minister Blair: The President: 1 Is Bertie going to be all right? (C) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I hope so. Prime Minister Blair: The President: We need him. (C) Really, we do need him. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Yes. Prime Minister Blair: matters. -+&lThe President: Let us keep in touch on Kosovo and other All right, man. Prime Minister Blair: The President: All right, Bill. Goodbye. Prime Minister Blair: I'll see you soon. All the best. (U) Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation COUFIDEN'l'IAL ,- (U) (U) CONFI DEN'P VeL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair Of the United Kingdom PARTICIPANTS: The President British Prime Minister Blair Notetaker: Bonnie Glick, David Higgins, Robin Richard, Joel Schrader, James Smith DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: February 19, 1999, 10:59 a.m. - 11:24 a.m. EST Oval Office How are you? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay. Prime Minister Blair: Fine. (U) How are you? (U) (U) Kosovo IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Chlrac lS with you today? The President: He is here and I will meet with him in a few ~m~iEn~U!t~e~s~.~==~--~~~~~~======~~~~--~--~--~----~-----\ I I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) I _ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Let's make sure we are on the same I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFIDENTIAL Reason: 1. 5 (d) Declassify On:i 2/~_,~~~-~~~~,,~~-~~ ';:-. i _. -. ;, ~~I t'."L~tON LIBRARY PHOT060fy ',:.1. ' "2.~.:::'~ ¢~!;~:~:;"-:':~;'-~~~;d;~~~;:;'~~';i~_..;'·;5...-+f~ . CONFIDEN'fIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 2 I Prime Minister Blair: 'I The President: Well, I agree with that. The trick is to give him some chance to come around and not seem lik unlimitedly. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I agree with that. you? I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) The President: Prime Minister Blair: COHFI DEN'!' lAL --, €,~fi~'~~~;(, 'r~: ,!~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY' f t-;.=...~~~~~~.::~:...." ..~--:_._.-.~,: -'-''':'.h._ L':'~~;:'_"" -~-:-o- r;~r,·.,: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I · CONFIDEN'l'IAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 3 The President: I agree with that. That is good. I think we are doing all right on getting the enabling force together. I don't know if Milosevic is playing brinkmanship or not. He seems to believe he loses Serbia if he lets NATO in there. ke1 Prime Minister Blair: Yeah. ] L l_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - - The President: Let me ask you a couple of questions. What is your sense on KVM? I know the EU is interested in a n w structure, I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) I accomplished by tFh~e~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~----, implementation. been so forthcoming, and I want to screw it up. je) Prime Mi nister Blaic I ) IL--_ _ _ ______ The President: That's right. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Is there anything else? (U) The President: No, I don't think so. What about Northern Ireland? Jim Steinberg had a good meeting with Ambassador Christopher Meyer yesterday on the outlook for the next two months. We are working on some ideas to complement your strategy for a push by the first anniversary of the Good FridayAgree~ent. I am ready to do my part around st. Patrick's day here and look forward to seeing Mo Mowlam. You have made a lot of progress and seem to have gotten it back on track. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CO~jFI DENT' 1AL · COh'PIDEN'fIAL 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I'm with you. have no choice. ~ It could boomerang on us but we Prime MinioterBlair: - I . - - I_ The President: _ ) _ I agree. _ _ ~ ~ Prime Minister Blair: Obviously you and I should speak before St. Patrick's day. The President: I think that's right. yt) Prime Minister Blair: So there it is, I think. keep in close touch on things. I CGNF I DEN'3?IAL ~) So Bill, let's IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I · conFIDENTIAL 5 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The P:r:e,sident: Six months o:r: so ago when I spoke to you, I was in a big flght with my T:r:easu:r:y guys' about the need to have leade:r:s get togethe:r: on it and cha:r:t a cou:r:se whe:r:e we change the o:r:ientation of the IMF a little bit and get into the necessity fo:r: inte:r:national standa:r:ds fo:r: banking. We :r:eally a:r:e moving in steps, in increments towa:r:ds a B:r:etton Woods II arrangement. I think we realized we :r:ushed into getting money into them without them having the internal protection'they needed. But a lot of T:r:easu:r:y folks treat this like Einstein looking for the theory of relativity or biologists looking for the cure for cancer: when they find it they will tell us. I felt our Treasury kept resisting a big meeting six months ago because markets we:r:e so shaky that if we met and did not come up with an answer it would foster instability. They don't feel that way anymore. (Q1 We have to find a wa thing kicked off. around the G-7 or otherwise try to get this We do need some forum in which leaders can clearly articulate where we are, what we have done, and where we are going. o 0 peop e are upse the composltion of the commlt ee of the 25 nations (G-22) meeting because they are not a sanctioned IMF type group. Maybe the G-7 cuts a lot of people out of the loop and a lot of those nations think Europe is over-represented. I am not hung up on that myself but, we do need to find a way to have higher visibility to let the world know we are working toward a more stable position. We ou ht to tr to resolve this when the G-7 meets in Germany. P:r:ime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 COHFI moNT L",L .§ ~ '"~ ~ ~ ...... CONFIDEHl'IAL 6 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: say? yt) Yes, I like that. What do you think Chirac will Prime Minister Blair: The President: I got track, but we need to you back after I talk right frame of mind. ).e1 Prime Minister Blair: I it. I'm with you. I think we are on same figure out how to keep going. I may call to him, but I will try to get him in the I ~I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~/ The President: I am worried about Russia as well. have spent some quite intense discussion time on this. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) The Russians have no tax system. I don't know what to do about all that either, but we should talk about it. Its almost like a psychological problem, in part, as well as the obvious political problem. We may need to put a little more money on the table for them to do that. ~ I Prime Minister Blair: i You and I can talk about it later~.----------------------------~ ~=-~~--~----~~ IE.O. 13526, section The President: All right, I'll follow up. with Jacques right now. +e1 --End of Conversation-- CONFI D£NTI}U I'm going to meet 1.4(b)(d)i COpFIDENTIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) The President Prime Minister Tony Blair PARTICIPANTS: Notetakers: George Chastain, Doug Bayley, Frank Jarosinski, Matthew Sibley, Roger Merletti, Jim Smith and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: March 4, 1999, 4:40 - 5:04 p.m. EST Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: Hi, how are you doing? (U) The President: I'm fine, I guess. I just got a bunch of stuff going on here, but everything is all right. How are you doing? (U) Prime Minister Blair: I am fine. you about this damn thing. I'm really sorry to bother IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: When is the election, May 6? Prime Minister Blair: Jef Yes, May 6. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Let me tell you what. I have to be a little careful about how I say this. Most of our people think that the WTO panel may approve a smaller aggregate amount. If they will try to do what I can to be helpful. CONFIDENTIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On:; i CONFIDENT 13\L 2 we do this, it will presumably be well in advance of the election. Anything you can do through Leon to get the WTO panel to make their decision would be very helpful. The only way we can get nailed is if they approve the exact amount, but I assume it will be lower, then we'll have an opportunity. -teT IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minlster Blair: The President: They are significant. One of the things I've tried to do before, and I hope this year will pass, is a new initiative to get more money through trade and investment. They're extremely vulnerable to drug lords, and bananas will be essentially a holding action. I think that maybe this is something the European Union and United States can do together and get them more help down there. I am worried about both Caribbean and Central America because of this storm. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I think it is a legitimate serious issue, not just about two Central American countries going broke. It's a deeper thing on all sides. I would be prepared to work on that. The main thing between now and May is to get these guys to talk. If you could get the WTO panel to make a rapid decision, maybe we could work something through on this. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I (..e) The President: What they could do, what I am worried about, is they may be sympathetic to you, and maybe rule against you on the merits. If they keep kicking the can down the road, that would be the worst for you politically. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree with you. I'm trying to pass a billion dollar trade initiative and all the right-wing Republicans bailed out on me yesterday. They spent all that money, billions Ir.:E:-:.0;::-".-:1735==2:-::6-,s-ec-'-tl:-'o-n71."':-4(7b7":)(-:7ld)I COHFIDEN'fIPrL 3 'JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J and billions, supporting dictatorships and taking sides in civil wars, but they won't help me get them back on their feet. They're trying to keep me from getting it before I go down there next week, ..(-et ~rime Minister Blair: The President: I got it. Look, basically what is at stake here is I've had to fight back 80 percent of both parties in Congress who want to legislate something worse than what I did. The whole credibility of the WTO is at issue here. But what is important, in order for me to do anything, is for the WTO to decide sooner rather than later. I should have some flexibility if they decide that it should be X million dollars less. ~ Prime Minister Blair: That would be very helpful. ~ The President: That is why it's important not to talk about it. Because if we do I will have everybody allover me. ~ Prime Minister Blair: \ The President: Can I ask you another quick question. Prime Minister Blair: Yes. (U) (U) The President: What do you want me to say on over here? Where will we be by then? ~ st. Patrick's Day Prime Minister Blair: CmJFIDENTIAL JE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I 1'----_ _ _--'--_-----'1 The President: Let me ask you this. Is there some way to manifest the commitment by something they say to you or me? Then a week later, some big declaration on decommissioning. there some way to do it that way? le1 Is ~ Prime Minister Blair: / '------~~ The President: Right now, they're saying trust me. could make these statements, then dick around. Jk1 But they Prime Minister Blair: The President: J,R:} How do they justify the Good Friday accords? Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I GOHFI DEWl'Ilffi 5 CGNFIDENnAL • IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I I The President: I completely agree. If you have any more instructions or advice between now and st. Patrick's Day, I'll be glad to have it. But, I got it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I The President: I think we have a chance to get the Kosovars to all right on the Kosovo agreement. J21 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. Prime Minister Blair: Really? (C) (91 That would be great. ~ The President: Bob Dole went over there today for me. He's been a champion of theirs. I'd say we have a pretty goud chance. I'm worried about the possibility of the Kosovars saying yes, Milosevic saying no, and NATO will blink. I'm really worried. We need to suck it up. You and I may have to do another round of calls. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: stuff, j)2') All right. Prime Minister Blair: Let me know about all this other IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Thanks a lot. (U) The President: I'll see you. If you have anything more on the other issues, let me know, directly or indirectly, through our channels. (U) CONFlDEN'i'IAL 6 C~FIDEN'fIAL Prime Minister Blair: Again, sorry to trouble you. (U) The President: That's okay. I may have to start ordering 50 _percent of my bananas from the Caribbean and Central America. (U) Prime Minister Blair: See you. (U) The President: Okay, Bill. Good-bye. All the very best to you. (U) -- End of Conversation CONFI DEN'!' lAL ., ..' ••..:...!.... COHFI DEN}' IAL lil{l THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Tom Crowell, George Chastain, Robert Ford, Matt Sibley, Lawrence Butler and Miriam Sapiro DATE, TIME AND PLACE: March 14, 1999, 1:55-2:12 p.m. EST The Residence Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill. (U) The President: Hi, Tony. I had a really good trip down to Central America. I am a bit tired. It was a good trip. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Did you just get back? (U) The President: I got back a couple of days ago and then had to turn around and go to Arkansas. But it was a good trip. The thing I found interesting was that despite all the horrible problems they have had with the hurricane and the legacy of all of the civil wars, those places are very well governed, with enormous potential. They're all very poor, except for Costa Rica, but they're very well governed. The biggest problem is in the aftermath of all the civil wars a lot of guns were left there, something that you know about. There are also a lot of criminal gangs in the rural areas that make them less than safe so it is hard to get tourism going there. In El Salvador there were former rebels and soldiers in suits listening to my speech. It was quite nice. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I thought we could have a quick word on Northern Ir'eland before they all get there. (U) The President: I agree. (U) COUFIDEN'1'IAL Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On: 13/1~{.Ji~~,.;.{,,-~~-~-:--~-----,:\' ~~1NTO~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY, 'f' '. ~:~~..:;~.-,:,,:,.~:,".<;';~j_.~..:::+; .>__ :~_;'~:~.r.-.~.t.~.:. ~r'" CotfPIDEN'fIAL 2 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: The President: First, I completely agree with that. George Mitchell believes that there can't be very much time between what Trimble does and the movement on decommissioning. They need to give some sort of private assurances that they can pocket. If they can't give i t to Bertie or DeChastelain, to you or someone. I am beginning to get a little concerned. )k1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree. I will do whatever I can to help get this done. We will just have to see, but I am quite hopeful. (,e'( Prime Minister Blair:/ CONFI DE~lT L""L \ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I 3 CONFIDEN'I'IAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: That's fine. I don't mind. I am determined not to let this. get away_ We need this badly, and I would like to resolve this in the first half of this year, if we can. This will give us the momentum while all the other things are going on. I will do whatever you want me to. I will do whatever it takes. )ef Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Yes, I told D'Alema you can do whatever you should. We have never had a problem with the EU having a different position than the United States. EVen going back before my presidency, we were sponsors of the resolution leading to the Oslo accords. We have to sa those issues will have to be resolved in the last phase. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: principle. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Exactl. That is m osition as a matter of I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: Yes. ~ Okay, thanks. I think you are right where you The President: If not, then don't need to be. If you think it helps, do it. do it. ..(-e) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: CONFI LiEN T 1AL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFIDENTIAL 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: I ~ The President: ~----------------------------------~ That is my conclusion. -fer ] Prime Minister Blair: / The President: When is the G-7 meeting in Germany? Prime Minister Blair: ~ In the middle of June. The President: You are going to do something here with the DLC, aren't you? (C) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, in April. ~ The President: Our guys are worried about it raining on NATO's parade. We got huge press coverage here yesterday. They went to Harry Truman's home to sign the documents for the NATO event with Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. +et Prime Minister Blair:/ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Let me have a look at my schedule. In the first half of the year it would be extremely difficult to make a separate trip, but if I am in Germany, maybe I can add a day onto my trip. Where does he want me to do it, in Florence? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I think so. ke1 The President: That would be a real burden, would it not? Someone has to shoulder the responsibility. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Have you been there before? (Q1 The President: Yes, Hillary and I spent a wonderful week there. As a matter of fact, it was ten years ago this week. Y21 I love it. It is one of my favorite Prime Minister Blair: cities in the world. I will think about it and get back to you. JKJ CONFIDEN'fIAL COHPIDEN'PIAL 5 The President: Good. I think that we are in sync on the other two matters. I won a big vote in Congress on Kosovo. I think it's interesting because when the Republicans pushed for it, they didn't think I would win it. Our guys worked very hard on it and won a big vote with explicit authorization to deploy, consistent with the conditions I've stated. I feel good about it. But I don't think there is any way that Milosevic will take this deal. But we believe the Kosovars will take it and then . we will be right back and I. KO. 13526, section 1.4 d Prime Minister Blair: IKO. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I The President: If the Kosovars say yes, and they have been difficult, we may even get Milosevic to the point where he will say yes -- if we stay tough and if we are prepared to use force. But if not, he will jerk us around. ).e1 Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Yeah, I will do that. Do you want me to buy a cashmere sweater from him with duties? ~ Prime Minister Blair: bananas. .(.e) You don't have to do that or give him The President: I wish we could get this resolved before your elections, you know. IZ5 Prime Minister Blair: IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: We got a really rough column that said this is not what the new world order was meant to be. Kosovo goes to hell, and we have a war over this. ~ Prime Minister Blair: CONPI DEN'fIAL Do shake hands with him. (91 courT BEtH' L"tL 6 The President: I thought I could have my whole wardrobe of Scottish cashmere brought down to him. The Irish wouldn't like it. Hell, I think even the Irish sweaters I have are Scotti~h. Okay, I will see you. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Okay, all the best to you. End of Conversation -- COUPI DEWPIAL (U) SECR]!;T THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) IS CAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 46 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Frank Jarosinski, Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: March 21, 1999, 12:50.- 1:12 p.m. EST Residence Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. How are yoU? Prime Minister Blair: (U) (U) I'm fine. How were things last week? (U) The President: What do you mean, last week? Prime Minister Blair: and everything. jet (U) With the Irish -- Gerry Adams, Trimble The President: I'm sorry; I have been through all kinds of hell with this Kosovo thing. You ought to get a transcript of George Mitchell's comments to them. I gave him a Medal of Freedom here. He said, "I don't want to talk about what I did, but what needs to be done." He said, "I hope that about a thousand people will ignore me while I make these remarks to the parties." It was devastating. He was great. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I heard he was brilliant. ~ The President: I did exactly what you asked me to. Hell, I don't know. It looks to me like Gerry needs some sort of cover SECRE'f Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On: 8ECRET 2 for demilitiariztion and then can give cover to Trimble to do what he needs to do. ,It is important to keep pushing it forward. (.Q1" Prime Minister Blair: Okay, that's what we will do. J.Gt The President: Anyway, I did the very best I could. I had chills running up and down my spine yesterday. There is a new book here by Daniel Silva who is a former Washington journalist. The book is called "The Marching Season" and you are in it. For some reason he uses a fictitious President, but the real you. There is an ultrasecret Protestant group and they are out there acting against everybody -- Protestants, Catholics. It's purely fictional,-but it gave me the chills about what could happen if we don't keep doing this. I was frustrated, and I know you are, but I don't know what else I can do. I will do whatever. (C) Prime Minister Blair: Okay, Bill, thanks anyway for last week . ..(-e) The President: You have to table some fix for this and let us pressure Adams to take it. I don't think there is anything else we can do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Can we talk Kosovo? Milosevic has agreed to meet Holbrooke. He will go over there tomorrow and tell him he will bear the full responsibility for consequences for NATO military action unless he does what he is told to do. I got reports this morning of one village of 13,000 people that has been completely evacuated. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) SECRE'f SECRE'I' 3 Primakov is supposed to come here next week, and I need to give him a heads up so if he wants to cancel he can. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely . .....fBi The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I couldn't a ree more. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) There are one "or two issues that I want to talk to you about'before going on, but we can talk in the next day or two on that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I agree with that. I had a meeting with a lot of members of congress and several Republicans said that it sounds bad -- if he were out there practicing ethnic cleansing again we would support it, but if we take the initiative and he moves against the people it will look like we caused it. (S) Sr:CIZEI 3ECRET 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: I I The President: The reason we did not take any other action is because the peace process was going on. ~ Prime Minister Blair:/ The President: That is what my critics here are going to say . ......l-51 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree with that. Let me ask you this. How are the Tories reacting at home? Are they supporting you? .-\-B1 ,prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Our right wing isolationists certainly would if they thought they could get public opinion on their side and since they have the parliamentary majority they would cause a problem. The Republicans fluctuate between isolationism and unilateral action. They want the biggest possible military and want to spend money on only the military and concrete, but never want to use it on anything. I think that in the near term I am in need of a stronger presentational argument than you are. I am hoping that it will be fine, I couldn't agree more that we 3ECRE'f' SECREr 5 need to get a strong presentation. If the others are going with us, we need Chirac and Schroeder saying the same thing. ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: / I The President: Yes, I will call them when I get off the phone with you. I understand they are even chiding us a little bit about whether we are moving quickly enough. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I have to call and tell him the truth and let him stay home if he wants to. But he still needs to come here because he needs the money and the IMF agreement worked out. % Prime Minister Blair: (S) The President: I am still very worried about it. And I am worried about them because the Duma seems incapable of doing anything positive to help themselves along. We could save them a lot of money if they could ratify START II. Then I could go immediately to START III. And then I could pass this bill to accelerate threat reduction with the nuclear stockpile that could occupy as many as 20,000 or half the military scientists over the next two years. But the Duma seems incapable of doing a lot of this stuff. I don't think we have any choice whatsoever. We don't want to polarize them further, but we need to take some form of action. 121 Prime Minister Blair: The President: You got it. One thing we have to figure out is a strategy that will keep the money there that we pump in. All the money disappeared in 48 hours the last time. ..(..et Prime Minister Blair: SEeRE'!' IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECRE'f 6 The President: Why don't we plan on talking tomorrow or the next day and we will work on Kosovo right now. ~ Prime Minister Blair. Okay, we will be in a position to discuss it again tomorrow. ~ The President: Okay man. Sorry I didn't do more on Ireland, but I tried. I even got Trimble and Adams to sit in my private office alone for a while. JQ1 Prime Minister Blair: Well it went off very well here. kef The President: I think the public vibes were very good indeed, but I didn't have the feeling that I helped you move the ball forward on the substance of it. ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! Prime MInIs er Blair: .~I ________________________________------------~ The President: I don't think Gerry wants it to get off the tracks and that is heartening. I know damn well Trimble does not, but he wants his leadership position as well. (e) ~ Prime Minister Blair: '-------~/ The President: If you could have a referendum on this, the people could come up with 15 permutations. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: That's another thing I thought about. I think the IRA people with personal history have a lot more ideology on this whole decommissioning issue than the facts warrant. They seem to think that if they unilaterally do this, it is like saying that what the struggle is all about and what they said all those years is illegitimate. They are loading a lot of crap that does not need to be loaded. The only way to get off the psychological hook is to make it part of a bigger disarmament or find some proposal people could ratify and let their reps off the hook. The atmospherics seem great, but I didn't have any specifics that I could glean. I don't see Trimble having a viable option. I did not mean to be so negative but I don't SECRE'F 7 3ECREl' think Sinn Fein thinks they can say different words and make it happen. I don't think words alone will do it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 All right man. (U) IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: (C) The President: I agree. If there is a problem with Chirac or Schroeder I will have to call you back. (C) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I am here. Bye, Tony. (U) (U) -- End of Conversation TH E WH ITE HOUSE: WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy, Ralph Sigler and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: March 23, 1999, 5:11-5:22 p.m. EST The Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: I'm fine. I'm in Berlin. (U) The President: I know, Gerhard just told me you were there. Holbrooke is on his way back. Milosevic stiffed him. He wouldn't agree to a cease-fire. He was belligerent and it seems to me he's strongly poised to unleash reater violence in Kosovo. I want to talk about two things: first, Pri~akov has postponed his visit to Washington. I think that's the best outcome given the circumstances. Maybe you can call him in the next day or two and tell him you understand why he didn't come to Washington. I E.O. 13526, section IA( d) SECl":t!:T Reason: 1.5(a,b,d) Declassify On: 3/23/0_9~,c~~,~ __~---~( r"...A,?.::-.----,"~- .. ~;::--,:. . ,' J '~:r~~LffiRA~~ PtlO:OCOPy__ "----:~ ;-~-:.:..:;-,-=- ;; ..--.,...'~ .-,:",~: -': '-.... --,.-~---."-,:;----'-~-.---.' - ,"" 2 SECRE'P I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I Prime Minister Blair: I \ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: \ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I / The President: Yes, we sat around the room today saying, "Geez, this is re~11y bad. We could lose what we did in Bosnia but we have no option." If we don't, he will just clean them out, kill a bunch of people and do bad things. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) SECRE'f SECRET 3 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: L-~IE=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,s=e=ct=io=n=1.=4(=b=)(::::d)::!....I_...J1 ~ Is Jacques there with you, or is Jospin there? ( C) Prime Minister Blair: The ~resident: They are both in Berlin, yes. ~ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Did it go over well in Europe? ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it went over very well. said it was ver effective. Our media IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I am completely there and knew you would be too. I Prime Minister Blair: I "0.13526, ""'0" 1.4(d) Okay, I will speak to him about that. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECRET SECRf:T 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I couldn't agree more. fer Prime Minister Blair: The President: There have never been any natural boundaries. couldn't agree more. ~ I . Prime Minister Blair: We will make strong points and I will speak to D'Alema and Chirac tomorrow. ~ The President: Great, if you want to call me any time of the day or night, call me. I don't expect to sleep much tonight. (C) Prime Minister Blair: Tougher than Iraq isn't it? ~ The President: Yeah. They have better air defenses and we have people in the vicinity that are vulnerable. The stakes are high but the potential benefits are enormous. jQ1 Prime Minister Blair: I The President: I hope Milosevic can find a way out. He compares it to the Ottoman Empire and how they stopped them In Bosnia, and now he stands up to the Empire of the West. It is crazy. ()21 Prime Minister Blair: I ) L -_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - The President: Okay. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I All right, Bill. Goodbye. All the best. (U) -- End of Conversation -- SECRE'f (U) . . SECRE'f .' THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy, Jenny McGee, Jim Smith and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: March 30, 1999, 6:12 - 6;24 p.m. EST Residence Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi Bill. Hey Tony. (U) How are you doing? Are you sleepy? (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: doesn' t it? yzi Not much sleep in Northern Ireland. (U) Kind of makes you long for the Albanians, Prime Minister Blair: Pretty much. How is it going there? The President: I think your statements have been seem to have a real consensus. reat. We I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes, I agree with that. They're all saying maybe we didn't think it through, but we didn't have all the time in the world. ,sECElli:T Reason: 1 . 5 ( a, b, d)- Declaosify On" 1 ' . , ._" ___ 0~·--~~"" 4/~~::::~CPHO:OCOPY ,t_:=~3.:.~i;'i~;;C~.:"-:~;,j"~·"7""~~:"":"'. .:.-.:.:,~~ ..~,...:::-,-/;o.:;-'" fC) 2 SECR!!:! I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I urge you to keep briefed on this issue on particulars, in part because we are being nickeled and dimed on some of the details by the Allies. My instinct is to go on for maximum effectiveness. ~ IE.O.13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I Prime Minister Blair: The President: We need them over here. The President: Where? -+€T ye) ~ Prime Minister Blair: \ L - - I_ Who were they? _ _ ---:----~ Are they living in London now, or Albania? Prime Minister Blair: ] I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Can you have your people send the names to our people so we know who they are? I want to stage a meeting here to give them some American publicity. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: SECRE'P I will put that in train. Alright, where are we on Ireland? -+er~ SECRE'!' 3 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: The President: Why? What is their argument? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: What is the IRA excuse for not doing it? ~ Prime Minister Blair: / \ The President: How can it be surrender when the war is over? -teT Prime Minister Blair: I I '--------_--..1 The President: 3ECRE'!' And they don't buy that? ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I gECRE'f 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Do you want me to caI1 Gerry? -+e-r I ~ \~--------------------~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: When do you want me to call Adams? Prime Minister Blair: time is it now? I think it's worth calling him. (91 The President: there? ..ke7 ye1 It's getting late. Prime Minister Blair: even now. j.eJ What What is it, twelve-thirty It's probably not too late to call him The President: But in no case no later than tomorrow. see what I can do. k€1 OK, I'll ~ Prime Minister Blair:/ ~--------------~ The President: All he ever wanted was an aggravated bonfire. To all of us linear thinkers it doesn't seem like much of a big deal. -+er Prime Minister Blair: The President: It doesn't look like surrender if you have all these people involved being let out of prison and all the others are involved. It's crazy. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I. £EGRET , \\ INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY •L i. 'k-:;:2~~~?~~~~~::;':,-:"j~c.::~\':·~;:;. ~).:~,_~~~.:;" __·:?-:.:_- .,-;-.:,.,._J._-t...r.'-"-_......:o_~.:-.• __ ._,~ ., • I E=-.0:::".-:1:-:::3-=52=-=6:-,-se-ct"C:"io-n-l=-.47:(:-b)c-:(d-:-:-) 1':1 Prime Minister Blair: report~ 1 · GONFIDEHTIAJ:j THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair arid Irish Prime Minister Ahern (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Prime Minister Ahern Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy, Matt Sibley, Bob Ford and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April 1, 1999, 6:32 - 6:38 a.m. EST The Residence I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFI DEN'f IAL Reason: 1.5(d Declassify On COUFIDEN1'IAL 2 IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Ahern: \ Prime Minister Blair: I Prime Minister Ahern: / The President: It's naIve for them to beiieve you can have a break or a pause or wait for Easter without this thing getting out. It's not possible. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Prime Minister Ahern: Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: night? (U) No, no, It's all right. Prime Minister Blair: up. (U) You have problems. Have you been up all I gather you've been The President: Tony, what are you going to do the rest of the day? Are you going to bed? (U) CONFIDENTIAL ,- 'CO~IFIDEN'fViL 3 Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: ,r may want to talk to you on a secure line later to tell you where I think things got off track a bit and what we need to do now. I don't have it all sorted out but would really like to talk to you, because we really cannot afford to be defeated on it. Let me talk to Gerry. 'The main thing is to let you publish this thing if you pause for reflection. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Let me call him back. Prime Minister Ahern: Goodbye. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) ~ End of Conversation cmlFI DEN'fIAL 3EeRE'!' I,S2-THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy, Jenny McGee and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April I, 1999, 7:03 - 7:12 a.m. EST The Residence Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, hi Bill. (U) Have you talked to Adams since I talked to you? (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: No. (U) IL____~I=E=.O==.1=3=5=26=,=se=c=ti=on==1.=4=(d=)=_________~1(C) Prime Minister Blair: Well done, Bill. The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: A week from Tuesday we'll have a celebration, but we'll probably need it by then. I never thought I'd ever be longing for the problems of Northern Ireland. ~ CONFIDEN'I'IAL Reason: 1.5(a.b,d) Declassify On 4~~_~--' ~_O' ~, -i -~T~~ L;~RARY PHOTOCOPY' '}. ~':o'~~.-~~-:-_~_.:_ -...';.. =-.:-__~ '__ -..-:,;- _'_, '. ,,- ~ • 2 We had another bad night weather-wise. I should go out a little more. There was a good article in the New York Times. I don't know if you saw it but it talked about what a good job you've done making the case in Britain. Although we're at about 58 percent, but having these guys arrested and beat up may not be so ood. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Blair: / ~--------------------~ The the hit hit our President: The press today has got this big article saying CIA tried to tell us he would accelerate his attacks if we him. Hell, we knew that but that's an argument for having him 30 -day s earlier. I t;::.-,-,h""i~n,""k,--"w:..;:e=-'-,r"-,e",--"-",o~n",n",a,--,h.:.:a=-v"-e",--",t""o---->t,-,,a,-,l,-,k-,--,,,",,,-_--, allies on where we are. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Are you having to run all these targets by your Attorney General? k8f Prime Minister Blair: I ~ '-------------) The President: Holbrooke believes strongly we should be hitting the media, power grids, and oil stuff with little collateral damage. Shutting down the TV networks will have an impact. ~ Prime Minister Blair: SECREl' IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 3 The President: The refineries. I approved all that stuff. There is some chance of collateral damage, but it seems to me really.remote. }81 Prime Minister Blair: IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We may need to examine if anything can be done in the daytime, too. k8f Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Tell you what I'll do. I have a meeting on this in about two hours time, and will fly down to Norfolk to see the troops, which I certainly need to do now that three of our guys have been apprehended. We are torn between doing something to keep the alliance unified or do something that works. I will check back in and ca 1 1 you 1 ater today. You and I have to talk this thing through. I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I Prime Minister Blair:! IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Well. Prime Minister Blair: The President: SECRET (U) I'm around anytime you want, Bill. Thanks, Tony. (U) (U) 4 3ECRE'± Prime Minister Blair: The President: Alright. (U) Alright Tony, we'll talk. -- End of Conversation SECRET (U) £ECRE'l' THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Bob Ford, Sean Tarver, James Smith and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April 1, 1999, 3:54 - 4;04 p.m. EST Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: The President: get any sleep? Hi, Bill. Hi and excuse me. (U) (U) How are you doing? Did you Prime Minister Blair: Not yet, but hoping to. God, these negotiations are a nightmare, but thanks so much for the help. (U) The President: I hope I did help and Sinn Fein will start negotiations. The initial spin on it was okay. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: It looks like we got permission tonight from all the NATO guys to do most of what we wanted to do, but I wanted to say that I think we need better procedures here. They tell me Wes Clark is spending half or more than half his time every day trying to schmooze the Allies. There should be'a mor orderly way to pick the targets and vet them. don't think we want to be in a position where every I have to make six phone calls to ramp things up . ,r ,sECRET Reason: 1.5(a.b,~l , " .. Declassify On:! ' . < . ' --=------ ---_. "" < _ < 4/~ . ~ .•. ,..-~q-:,--~- . ' .''',' ,~";.' . ' 1m-ON LLBRARY PHOTOCOPY i, . .-'. ':., ,"' .,' j. '. ~?~::~~,;_:-:-,~;,~~;--i.~_~. -~~~_''',;.,;;._ ,__\_:;', ,;.~~:.I::. < and --"--'-'L--=-';;' 2 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: No. j81 The President: A lot of people knew what they were going to be and were preparing for the~, so one of our fighter groups had to turn around and come back. j81 Prime Minister Blair: My God. }21 The President: That's why we keep this close. I am not accusing anybody, these are just the facts. But the more people that know, you increase exponentially the potential for leaks or intercepted conversations, anything of that kind. So we need to try to keep this closehold. (5) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) SECRET 3 3ECRE'f' Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 The President: I will have Sandy follow up with your guys and we will figure out who contacts whom. We'll talk to Solana and get a new·procedure approved. We need to approve targets quickly and hit them. We need to be relaxed about this, determined but relaxed. We're not in a panic. ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: If it looks like we're afraid someone is going to wimp out on us, we would never get a decent deal. ~ Prime-Minigter Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We've unsettled him some. We've had some substantial strikes. We're not where we need to be yet, but we need to keep after it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Yes. And it would be very well received here; we cannot act like we're bombing timidly and making a plea for peace. That's not a position we can afford to be in. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That we have to hit them harder. In fact, a couple of senators have come out in favor of ground troops. Though that could be a Trojan Horse. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We'll have our people come up with a strategy for who you and I should call. I will call Schroeder to see if he will agree to a new procedure on target setting. This is too slow; we are encumbered by weather now, but as a practical measure you will have more influence with Europeans than I will. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) I I We can't afford to have Clark spending half his day, every day trying to get approval to do his job rather than doing his job. DEeRE'!' SE'CRE'F 4 e re on an open l~ne, so I don't want to get into details, but we have gotten in a position now where we can really, with the weather cooperating, do some more things and get some more results. I think it is quite important, and it's an acceptable agreement if we don't have to keep slashing awa. We've got to show real strength and impact here. )...S1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: \ I agree. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Alright. Thanks. 121 I I ~-------------------~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I am happy to do it. It's lasted so long that I yz) may miss it when it's gone. But I doubt it. Prime Minister Blair:/ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Goodbye. -tel We'll have our people work out strategy. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation agCRET §E:CRE'f THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair (U) Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy, Matthew Sibley, James Smith, Roger Merletti and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April 5, 1999, 1:50 - 2:11 p.m. EST Oval Office The President: How are you? Prime Minister Blair: (U) I'm okay. \ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I agree with that. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) this is important, it helps with the efficacy issue. SECRE'f Reason: 1.5(a,b,d) Declassify On:! 4/91J),§>,,-_~,;.;:"·--'~-·-• ~ ... __ -. _ _ . . . . . .---'--'--:..~ _ _ -7-'".~_ '.'- - -~I C~~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY' - ·t '~~~:":>~~,,:::~"-~-.-3-·~.h_>~.~~~;::_ -.~:-.__ ._\~).",,~). ~ SECRET Presentationally, 2 I think you are right. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I agree absolutely. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECRE'f 3 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I agree with that, but I don't think we are quite ready to say it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I agree. You can be sure all these offers he makes will not meet that standard. More and more of the Europeans are of the mind that we may have some definitional problems down the road. I'd like to talk about two things that are related. One is the refugee issue. It seems to me we are doing a little bit better, with NATO taking the lead organizing with Macedonia and Albania. But we have got to do more and quickly in finding places to resettle them and the conditions of their return. Different countries have different conditions, camps. J.&r I don't know, but I know we have to create a release valve to take the pressure off Albania and Macedonia. We're increasing economic assistance to countries bearing the greatest burden. I hope we others as we can, but the offers out now. We don't their borders and cause a SECRE'f can get as many concrete offers from most important thing is to get those want Albania and Macedonia to close worse situation. ~ 4 3ECRE'f The other thing I wanted to mention is I am quite concerned about Russia's growing involvement, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I We have to make it clear we understand this is a political problem for them, and we don't mind them jumping on us, but they shouldn't have military support that will put our pilots and our forces at risk. We can't act as if there are no consequences to that. -k81 Another issue that we're trying to work on is that surrounding countries need to thoroughly inspect all the Russian shipments going into Kosovo to make sure they are not violating the arms . embargo. I am concerned about that. I think the military situation is in pretty good shape, E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: This is an open line; we have to be careful what we say. You and I have discussed this before. _ (£) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I agree with that. The problem we are having here is whether we're taking people in Guantamano or the continental United States, then they like it and say they don't SECRE'l' f· SECRE'l' 5 Will they want to go home, once they've seen Blair: The President: I understand the problem. On the other hand, we have to take enough pressure off Macedonia and Albania so they don't close the borders to keep their countries from coming apart. Talk to your folks. On one level, I'd like to take 100 thousand and put them in America tomorrow and run the risk of saying people don't want to go home. On another level/ I don't want any. They might like it here and not want to leave. (ef Prime-Minister Blair: J The President: I agree with that. I wonder if our public affairs people should talk specifically to each other. ke1 Prime Minister Blair.: ] The President: Let's see if we can get this organized. would make a huge difference. ~ It Prime Minister Blair:/ ~ L - - - -_ _ ~ _ The President: Let's have our own media people talking. We can offer to have all 19 join the conference call. If not, we ought to have the major countries agreed. Prime Minister Blair: The president: 5ECRE1' Je1 'r-------------------------------------------- I couldn't agree more. 7 okay, that's good. )91 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SgCRgT 6 Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I do, too, but we have a ways to go. People can say to us you don't have a clear strategy, but we have had clear goals, but you have got to have the proper mix of long-term goals and enough flexibility to deal with day-to-day realities. Getting our presentation a little better has helped some, with the clearing of the weather, the targeting process being worked out. I thought your memo was terrific, by the way. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Absolutely. We've got that here. They would be calling people traitors, now they all join in. Everybody is a Monday morning quarterback. The right is saying you should have ground forces in there. Some people think I'm on the receiving end of a Trojan horse, that it's a.deliberate set-up. But we have to take it as it comes and be determined we will not be defeated, that we will run this strategy out. But under no circumstances are we going to be defeated. If you tell me that, and I tell you that, and we hold hands. ~ Now, let me say one other thing. We had good news on Lockerbie, with the suspects arriving in the Netherlands. Thanks for everything you did on that. This is great. We got the sanctions lifted, suspended for 90 days, but Libya will have to do more to get them lifted permanently. But this is a pretty good day for us since last August; it's a good argument for staying the course against terrorism in the long run. You going to follow up on the NATO PR thing and get back to us -- to Sandy or someone else -- to see how we coordinate our daily message? -+BY Prime Minister Blair: Okay, Bill. The President: Goodbye. Okay. (U) (U) End of Conversation SECRE'¥ SECRET THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telephone Conversation with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Matthew Sibley, Robert Ford, Robin Rickard, Lawrence Butler and K. C. Brown DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April 10, 1999, 1:31 -- 1:S0 p.m. EDT Residence The President: Tony? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi Bill. (U) Are you still in Scotland? (U) Prime Minister Blair: No, I am back in Chequers now. (U) with Jose Maria Aznar. The President: days. (U) Good. Prime Minister Blair: wishes. (U) The President: I am He is coming to see me in a couple of He was telling me to send you his best Are they happy in Scotland? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, a lot happier in Scotland and you will be getting any amount of cashmere that you want. (U) The President: What I want, is that when I am done here to be made an honorary UK citizen and give me a seat from Scotland next door to a good golf course. The daily papers today are filled with China being pissed off and Russia threatening war. SECRET Reason: 1.S(a,b,d) . Declassify On: 4/12~_ =,;,r'-~"----'-'-=-~~"\!-: . , ~:~~~_~IBRA~YPHOTOC~~~;_J .. : ~~:".:;.>o:,-,:-::~.:,;;:;;-.,-"",,"~->';.. '-.--:;:: :~ ~.;;-.~--.--...::.~ .J' •. -v-..,._ .• - ': ':,~, 2 SECREr If you want, you can give me citizenship and make me a Brit. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: You are one very popular man there. I hope that it helps in the elections. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: It has helped, Thanks for seeing Donald Leu as well. What it has done is to emphasize to the people that sometimes it is useful to be part of something bigger. ~ The President: Yes, I believe that. We don't have time to talk about this today, but when you are here -- I want you to think about something between now and then -- we have to figure out how to resolve this stupid banana thing. But the real thing is that the Caribbean is in. bad shape economically. I would like to get a bill through that would treat them like Mexico in exports. It would help them a lot if the United states, and if not the entire EU, then the French, Dutch, and British and everybody that had some presence there could think about setting up a joint effort for the long-term development strategy . . We all have limited money, but if we coordinate it we could leverage it. Think about what we could do to help them diversify their economies. We could try to improve their economies, increase tourism and personal income, and reduce their vulnerabilities to the narco-traffickers. Get them to where they are not completely dependent on bananas. Anyway, there has never been anything like this in this part of the world where all the countries with ownership or colonization of these islands coordinated together. I think that this is a third way deal, and I bet we could get some other Europeans interested. I don't know if the French would help. The Dutch might be interested. Some of the Europeans might be interested. We might think about doing something like that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: That's right. The EU is wrong on the trade issue but right on the general concern for the Caribbean. The EU is in the right on the larger economic well being, on the longer-term interests of the Caribbean. lef Prime Minister Blair: SECRET IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 3 SEeRE'!' I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: In Central America they are all concerned, I was just down there and talked to all these guys. They are sensitive because of the hurricane. What few bananas they have, they want to sell. I told them we will help them get through this, but that we would have to diversify their economies too . .J.Zi Prime Minister Blair: The President: The Central Americans. and the Caribbeans sound like a boys school argument. They ought to be thinking about making common cause and not pissing down each others' leg to see who has the biggest bananas. ~ Prime Minister Blair: ~ ____________~1 ~ The President: OK, on Kosovo, just want to check in and reconnoiter where we are. We had greater military impact with the air actions. I think if we could do a couple more weeks I think that we could really have it. The G-8 statement is good. Have you received the report on the G-8 ministers? We are hoping to get a statement here involving the Russians. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Ll_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ The President: That was good. Madeleine is going to see Ivanov on Tuesday or Wednesday. I also think that Kofi gave a good statement. k81 Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: He is a little miffed, though maybe that's too strong a word, disappointed maybe or concerned that neither of us have put out a statement on it. I told him that you were in Scotland and that I was preoccupied with the Chinese. I think that we ought to put one out now because he is out in Europe now. There are two things we need to think about. One is whether any economic pressures could be put on Milosevic that don't hurt the Macedonians and the Montenegrens too badly. I have a list of things, maybe cutting down on their money laundering in Cyprus and putting the squeeze on their London accounts. I don't want to cause the Montenegrins any trouble. I will get that list to you today and let you guys look at it · SECRET 4 and respond to it. Any time that I try to get our banks to do something the Treasury Department gets squirrelly on me. It is always a fight with those guys. I would like to send you this list and let you evaluate it. ~ We have to decide whether we want to have a more aggressive diplomatic initiative and if so, how to intensify the military action to enhance the likelihood that diplomatic efforts will succeed, assuming we can achieve all our ob'ectives that Kofi signed off on and bring Russia into it. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I It may turn out to be, a bigger problem for me than you. It assumes that we can achieve our political objectives because Milosevic doesn't want to get the hell bombed out of him and have Apaches on top of his tanks. If you assume -- the one downside is that we are facing a lot of hurdles -- if you assume that all of our stated objectives are achievable if we intensify our bombing campaign without actually toppling Milosevic. Then it seems to me that there will be some kind of diplomatic agreement for an international force that will include Russian participation. They will push Milosevic back when he says who can and cannot be part of it. I think that it will be difficult to have NATO as NATO participate. The problem this creates for us is Somalia. J.8J I don't want to take too much time going over this now but this is a big problem for us. We went through this in Somalia when the UN took over command and control. We had a messy deal during the first part of the Administration. We stayed on in Somalia when the UN took it over and it was a messy deal. I lost some American boys over there and one of them was dragged naked through the streets of Mogadishu. We made some mistakes there in what we did and did not do. We basically had serious command and control problems where the Americans were supposed to do two things -- the same things we'd have to do if it were a non-NATO force in Kosovo -- in Somalia we were supposed to be there doing humanitarian relief and act as a mUltinational peace force. One of the factional leaders who since has died, killed a bunch of Pakistani peacekeepers -- something like 15-20. We were the only presence there that had the capabilities to figure out who did it and to go and get him. So the UN wanted us and tasked us to go and get him, Aideed. The UN tasked us to do that while doing humanitarian relief. They tasked our guys to go'into a hotel and get him. Our guys landed on the top of a hotel in the middle of the day -- he got away and then all of a SECRS'!' 5 GECRE'P sudden more than 300 Somalis started shooting at them. It is the sort of thing that if NATO had been doing it, it would have been totally different: there would have been different command and control arrangements, armor and artillery. So there is still a lingering bad taste. I have a lot of support in . Congress right now. There is even more than before the Gulf War. More and more in Congress are saying that they are in favor of ground troops if we had to put them in there. And I am telling you this in advance, if you could help me on this because it is your guys' necks, too. If they say NATO can participate, but not as NATO, instead as the UN, we have this awful memory of Somalia. We would also need the serious command and control issues to be worked out. We did not have these problems in Bosnia. It worked like a charm once NATO went in and the Russians came in with us. We only had to make an amendment to the NATO issue. Does that make sense? kef Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: This was the lowest point of my presidency. It was a goddamned nightmare. I felt personally responsible for that kid's body being dragged through the streets. So I see this as a practical measure about k2.eping people alive. We were prepared to take risks. We had all these glitches because of the command and control problems. The Russians are allergic to NATO and Milosevic is allergic to NATO. Keep in mind Tony, I know you know this, if we go in, we can't go in with one foot. If we get a multi-national force we have to go in at least with the commitment to protect the Serbs in Kosovo at a minimum as well as the Kosovar Albanians. There is enormous grass roots support right now for the freedom fighters. This will be a big force protection issue -- command and control will be critical with huge political implications. We may have all kinds of problems where we have both sides pissed at us. They will be politically important as well in any country. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I will send you the list of economic sanctions. We will look like assholes at the garden party if we don't make SECRE'f ,i· SECRE'l' 6 sure that everybody understands that NATO means keeping our people alive. i&1 Prime Minister Blair: / E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)/ The President: It is horrible. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We need to talk on a secure line or talk when you get here. There are arguments both for it and arguments against it. We will need to look at in the context of where it is going to be five years from now. We need to keep our crowd together and keep at him and get a diplomatic solution with a mechanism that includes the UN and Russia. I will follow up on this. I am in the country all next week and will get that economic list out to you. Tell Jose Maria I said hello. Did you show him Napoleon's pistol and Charles' sword? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I took him to Rothschild House today to see the most amazing works of art. (U) The President: I want to get there. Prime Minister Blair: (U) You must come back. (U) The President: I will come back to t'he Scottish golf course. You were the best first-timer that I ever saw play. (U) Prime Minister Blair: keep in touch. (U) The President: Joking apart, thanks for cashmere. Thank you, find me a safe seat in a golf cart. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Right, good-bye. Goodbye. (U) (U) -- End of Conversation -- SECRE'E' Let's £ECREf THE WHITE HOUSE WASH I NGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair (U) Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Roger Merletti, Frank Jarosinski, James Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME: The President: April 14, 1999, 1:56 - 2:14 p.m. EDT, Oval Office Hello, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: fortunately. Go on. (U) Hi, Bill . This is a secure line, .JRl" The President: Yes. First of all, I didn't mean to take you out of a meeting there, but I thought it was important I talk to you as soon as possible. Aznar was here last night and he was really good, and I know he is there. 181 Wes Clark asked for another 300 airplanes, and we've got these Apaches corning in, but the truth is we're just going to have more and more planes filling the air and restriking old targets or hoping the weather gets better so we can hit tanks and soldiers, unless we can get into Phase III targets. We have got to make these people start paying a higher price. ~ ~ was hoping while you're there, you and Aznar could convince ~____~Ito give Clarke and Solana the authority to strike a wider range of targets. That would require hitting national level headquarters, military-industrial targets, the TV towers (which he has resisted), some of the presidential targets, the power plants, the Socialist Party headquarters, which also has a radio-TV broadcasting facility there. I really believe we are making a mistake not .turning the heat up on these guys. )-21 SEeR]!!'f Reason: 1.5 (Q., q) .. . '. _~, .. Declassify on ;}4/1,S:,b09-.:-;~"'~r':- '-'.'~--~ "\ t:::~~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY· . J . , :ZX·-;:~~~_;~..~~~:;·'<-'~,:.0i~:''':'·' __ -;".~.-.:--:~=,~. ::>~'-/"-:' .... , SECRE'f 2 I have also been urged by our people to look at preventative action against some targets in Montenegro. I know I I doesn't want to hit there, but even I Isaid there were some things we ought to be hitting. Let me give you an example or two: there are several facilities where we think they are moving in to take their missiles out; in and around the ports in Montenegro; there's one critical bridge we need to take out, before they start moving their military units. So we're quite worried about their ability to use these facilities. There are not a lot of targets and not a lot of risk of civilian damage, But it's even more important we get to Phase I I I targets within Serbia. I know there'll be collateral damage and some controversy, but if we want any chance of a solution soon, we have to turn the heat up. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: SECRE'f' That's what I want to do. ~ SECRET 3 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I completely agree. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECREr I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 :SECRE! 4 The President: Let's talk about all the points you've made. First of all, we're agreed on targets. On fuel and other things, we are now banning Yugoslav ships from our ports and the export and reexport of goods to Yugoslavia. I hope you can succeed in tightening EU exports, freezing government and private projects and the assets of the leadership. You and I should propose NATO search ships going into Yugoslav ports to make sure there's no arms or fuel. 121 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Agreed. (U) On presentation, Solana is not there, is he? Je1 Prime Minister Blair: ~ '-------~ The President: Do you want to send someone in? I think there would be some resentment if I sent an American over there. Maybe we should talk to Solana and have him ask for more help on presentation? Do you have someone you can deputize? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: We've had to start doing a lot more of our briefings, because they are so ineffective. (.8f Prime Minister Blair: They start off every day at 3 or 4 o'clock, and the press conference sometimes goes on for an hour or an hour and a half, literally answering all their questions. k&t IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 £ECRET 3ECRE't' The him 5 Shouldn't we talk to Solana personally and get how do we get this done? What's your Prime Minister Blair: The President: I would support that strongly, and then he could do the conference call every day, your guy. keJ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay. I am completely agreed. Should we call Solana separately or together. Separately. I will tell him we discussed this, I think your take is right and ask him to work with you on it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: That is great, Bill. (U) Call me after you talk to Chirac and Schroeder. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I will call ou back. The President: That's why I agreed to do this. With all the problems, I figured you wouldn't have 19 elected officials with their asses hanging out to dry. ~ Prime Minister Blair: ~ \L-_ _ _ _ _~~ I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 SECRE'P 6 SECRE'f The President: You've got a deal. Prime Minister Blair: The President.: (U) Alright, Bill. (U) And on the economic things, you support them? .Aef Prime Minister Blair: The President: Absolutely. Alright. One hundred percent. I will get on it. -- End of Conversation -- 3ECRE'l' ~ ~ SEGREg:' THE WHITE HOUSE WAS H I NGTON ..s >"l Z "lZ ::t:0 f-f-<;:: .... oo Notetakers: Matt Sibley, Tom Crowell, James Smith, Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME PLACE: ~oo I Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill. Riqht. I \ ~C!)'" OO~N "l ....• U >"If-~ "">"l Of-< "l;;;ll£) :;:Q QUZ NZ ·0 Z>"lO 0_ ;;;loo ..... Zf-< Q;>-f-< ..... "lUU U ... z>"l "lOO ~ ~;:: o"l ;!lQ SECRE'f The President: 2 Good. (U) Prime Minister Blair: On presentation and structure. I will speak to Solana tomorrow, and I think it would be good if you did, too. J81 The President: Do you want to call first? Prime Minister Blair: (U) I'd be happy to do that. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: It's a deal. After you talk to him, have someone c~11our office and then I'll call him. That's great. J,e1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: We'll speak soon. Goodbye. (U) (U) -- End of Conversation -- SECRET THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telecon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetaker: George Chastian, Michael Manning, Liz Rogers, Roger Merletti, Smith, Larry Butler James DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April 16, 1999, 2:11 p.m. Roseville, Michigan - 2:21 p.m. Prime Minister Blair: Hi. This is a secure line, is it not? (U) The President: No, it?s really garbled. I?ll call back if you want. Let's do what we can on the non-secure line and if you want to get into details, I can call you back secure. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, that will be fine. Where are you? (U) The President: I?m in Detroit, on my way to a meeting with Albanian-Americans, and then I'm going to Boston, and then home tonight. I was in San Francisco last night/yesterday, meeting with newspaper editors. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Good for you. (U) The President: I?m trying to rally support here. (U) Prime Minister Blair: It?s tough, is it? (U) The.President: It?s coming around. Americans are concerned but they?re basically supporting what we are doing. That?s what I believe. Nobody is going to treat this like a Sunday walk in the park until it?s over. Yesterday was another good example of your insistence on a communication strategy. Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On:; 12.0. 13526, section 1.4(d) - 6/INTON LIBRARY 2 . INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE EU. 13526, SECTION ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013?090, document no. 56 DECLASSIFECATION DATE: October 14, 2015 2 COMFI DEN!'!:' IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) \~~ ] __~~~~~~~~~__~~~~r-I-t­ was a terrible thing, but in the Gulf War, we had soldiers killed by friendly fire where the Americans and British were. So even in a relatively small conflict, these kinds of things happen. We can't lose the forest for the trees. (£1 Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: That's what I said yesterday. I was very strong with the newspaper editors -- you know I completely agree with you. We're on the same page. We'll get the briefing sorted out there. ¢ Prime Minister Blair: I'll tell you what I have done. I have done a note, which is longish, which sets out all my thoughts, concerns, suggestions on this, on everything we are doing. If it's okay with you, I will fax it over to you on a secure fax . .ket The President: Good. Are we going to get together on Thursday? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think. (U) The President: Do you want to spend the night at the White House? Or at Blair House, if you want. I won't get in until 1 a.m., and you may want to be in bed by then, but it's your option. You can sleep in the same bed Churchill did. +&T Prime Minister Blair: I hope it's appropriate. (U) The Presiden-t: As long as you don't parade around naked before the bath. You're too young and too trim. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I'm getting older in this bloody job. Bill, that is great, and then we can meet Thursday mornin . will get this information over to E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) there Tuesday to tal k CONFIDEN'fLAL 3 CONFIDEN'l'IAL to people, and to SACEUR as well, to get a real fix on what is happening before the summit. )Q1 The President: That's a very good idea. When you come here, I'd like to develop a strategy on how to work with the others, including some of the smaller countries. I think a little effort on the side could get us a strong voice in making those folks feel included. Between the two of I think we can touch most people . . ,.all of that ... I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) I probably need to call him. Prime Minister Blair: The President: ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That is what I think. In Detroit, we had 40,000 Albanians and a whole bunch of Serbs. The Albanians were outside demonstrating, and I said we have no fight with the Serbian people; they were our allies in World War II and most don't have a clue what Milosevic has done in their name in Kosovo. I said that was the proper way to express disagreement, not by killing. We have to be upbeat and resolute. It is important to be determined, but not too damned grim, either. We have to keep spirits up. We're in this world where people expect instantaneous results. We need to act like this started the day before yesterday and not twenty years ago. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I think that is right. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: If you want me to do any more, like talking to I thought it would be less Solana or Wes Clark, let me know. abrasive to everybody if I didn't lead the charge, and it seems to have worked out well; but I'll be happy to follow up. +eY COlQ'FIDEH'I'IAL 4 COlH'IDEM'fIAL Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'm sure that's right. There's no reason to believe these people are trained to deal with this situation. J..0" Prime Minister Blair: That's totally right. This is a situation they haven't dealt with before. ~ The President: We will plan on being together on Thursday. You decide whether Blair House is more convenient. It probably will be fQr your retinue, but you can stay here and put another aide upstairs if you want. ~ Prime Minister Blair: That is really kind, Bill. I will get this note to you on secure fax, and probably we should have a word over the weekend on the secure phone. ~ The President: Alright, we'll do that. I understand we made a little progress on those operational changes you and I wanted and I am a little encouraged by that. k8t Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think if we really work we can unblock any obstacles there. We still know where the difficult points are. ~ The President: We're finally getting some indication they're feeling it and there's a lot of internal debate within the high councils. That is important and we need to bear down. I will get your fax, and we will talk over the weekend. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Best of luck in Detroit.IU) I'll see you next week. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. IU) IU) End of Conversation COHFIDEN'PH'W SECRE'F THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON ... MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Miles Murphy, James Smith, Lawrence Butler and K. C. Brown DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: April 29, 1999, 5:22 - 5:43 p.m. EDT Oval Office How are you? Prime Minister Blair: (U) Fine, how are you? (U) The President: Great. I thought your trip went very well, and everyone loved the DLC event we did later. So I think your trip went great. I called to follow up a little bit on the memo you gave me and what we're doing here. Let me make three or four points to respond to your memo and tell you what we are doing, then we can talk about whatever else we need to. ~ First, on your statement I I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) I We've got a small group working to develop an integrated strategic plan that will merge our military and strategic objectives and focus on putting pressure on Milosevic,' his cronies, integrating military targets, covert action, psychological operations and public affairs. And it is my understanding we're already in touch with you. We'll have a detailed plan ready sometime this weekend and share it with your people. We will coordinate two to three times a week in a telephone conference with people in a group led by John Sawers and Sandy Berger. So, we'll deal with that issue. J81 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) SECRET Reason: 1.5 (a, b, d) Declassi fy On,: .. ' 41 3U~9__:r"2~:'-·"~~.o;--'-'·-'~:--" . '~I~TO~UBRARYPHbTbCOPY·,·l· ~~~ .";::~~'.~,--. -,-,_-:-",,_,_ .. =-;~ _>:::.;"_ ..~_ -'-;:;. . . . _ ~1._-:' ..".-__ .( . f .._J 51WRET 2 affairs thing is in much better shape now; the war room you and I set up has a 24-hour capability and a rapid-response element, and I think Joe and Alistair are talking two or three times a day, including~ith the people in Brussels. I think that's good and we're trying to bring in the guy who used to work as my communications director to work our operation here for 30 days to make sure we've melded our political and diplomatic efforts together. On all those areas, we're doing pretty well. JBf Prime Minister Blair: That sounds great. (U) The President: The last item you raised is the need to do joint planning on the ground force option. I personally believe it can be done under the umbrella of the assessment. As I told you, we're working with our guys; they're so afraid it will leak. We have to work through it, because there's no point in doing this in detail unless we know how it will mesh together. I will keep working on that, but I think we've made reasonable progress on what we discussed and I wanted to see where you are on that. .k51 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) If he means we won't assassinate him or bomb him or extract him from Serbia, I think we can make that commitment. I don't think we can make a public commitment on war crimes, because that is an independent body. Louise Arbour is here, by the way. ~ I said we're cooperating with the tribunal, so that is a more difficult issue. He's looking for some assurance, but that's a pretty dicey thing. So, that's all I have to report. I do think Chernomyrdin has the bit in his teeth to do something, but whether he can, I don't know. They are very anxious to playa role in a diplomatic settlement and go in with their troops. ~ SECRET 3 One other point: the Russians might want to be in an area of Kosovowhere the Serbs are dominant in population. I said I personally had'-no problems, as long as the Russians had a hard and fast commitment to protect the Kosovars. I had never discussed this with the American people, not one time, without saying that if the United States has a role, it will be providing protection to the Serb minority as well as the Kosovar/Albanian majority. vn The second thing -- and Sandy raised the red flag on this -- I asked him to make it clear to Chernomyrdin that having Russians and Greeks, Ukrainians, or other Orthodox denominations could not become a de facto partition, because the EU has taken a strong position on this, as has the United States and as has NATO. As long as there's no partition, I think we could work that out. Basically, that's a read-out of what D'Alema said. ft} Prime Minister Blair: Right. That is very helpful, Bill. First, I think on the bit with the press side, and NATO and SHAPE working together, we have a lot of people working well with your people. That is working better and will get better still. On the military side, I think that is great, to help SACEUR with what he is doing. On the video conferencing, I think that's fine. The thing to do is have a constant updating of all the different issues so they know exactly where we are, feeding through the information we are getting to your guys, and vice versa. ~ The President: I agree. j,21 Prime Minister Blair: On the ground troop thing: I understand all the problems, and we don't want this to start running in the press and everything. We have done some work we are fairly confident of, ~a~n~d~~~~~u~s~w~i~l~l~h~a~v~e~t~o~~e~t~i~n~t~o~u~c~h~a~s~~o~u~__, want, reall . E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) So that is my only worry, is not to get caught by the winter. ~ The President: Yes, I'm watching the calendar pretty closely. We're back to the efficacy argument here. The public in America, in the latest survey yesterday, is against ground troops; it supports bombing, but doesn't think it will work. I think whatever I decide is right, we can go forward with. I 03ECRE'f SECRE'f 4 think what we don't want to do is not do what we need to do in terms of planning. They're asking when this will be over. I looked at the weather map and said, "May is better than April, and June is be'Eter than May, and July is better than June." That had the right effect. It wasn't lost on them, to talk about how the weather is getting better. (81 Prime Minister Blair: I think it is important, also. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: ~ Yes. Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: I don't know. I just don't know. We have to wait and see. We may have to talk again before the weekend is over, when we see how he does. We'll have to wait and see. My guess is Milosevic will offer a little more tomorrow, but not enough, and then come back and say, "How about a pause in bombing?" He's still trying to stiff the Alliance. ~ I want you to think about two things with your planners, if you've got a pretty good military plan now on the ground troop option. There are two things. Life is not perfect~ but I basically had three objectives going in: one is to win in Kosovo, to have the people come back to a protected area and give them autonomy and then to have the larger approach to southeastern Europe that we discussed. k5i The second thing is, to get from beginning to end with the NATO alliance intact. When you think about it, this is the first thing NATO has had to do in 50 years. In Bosnia, we had a lot of help on the ground from Croatian and Muslim forces; we didn't have to do as much as we do here. ~ The third thing is, I was so happy about Chernomyrdin being back in harness. In talking to all our people, I've said that I want this to come out in a way that enhances Russia's diplomatic role and strategic partnership with us. That would be a real boost SECRE'f SECRET 5 to the forces of progress and those who want a partnership with us, rather than those who want to go off by themselves angry, hurt and humiliated. ;zl .... One thing you need to have your best Russia people dealing with: if it comes to a troop option, what the hell are we going to do with Russia if it leads to the collapse of our relationship. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: My view on this is,! I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: are you? .ke7 I agree with that. How about Ireland? Where Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Do you think the IRA has decided they are never going to decommission? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECI Eo(:( (:( "l :; c:l ""~'" NZ c:lUZ '0 Z""O 0_ ~[fj ... ZEoc:l ;;.. Eo- ...:l-,d) ~_ , -~~ ""- ' Declaos ity On,! 5/5(;rq~ ~ ~ "',"'~ ,- -. ;: ' , " INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY '. ':0_":~~~-;-~._;~,"~1.'~7-=':-;---:-"~~,;,,_~' :" I h -... _ •. ~. r}.-?'-~' 2 SECRE'f I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) force. I We sald he has to commit to get all his forces out, then we can talk about a presence symbo}ic of Serbian sovereignty. )21 We had a long talk about the rationale for an international security force with NATO at its core and the rapid deployment capability, to keep the Serbs and Albanians from clashing. I do think he understands that if we are not in there, the peaceful Albanians won't go back and the guerrillas will, and we'll all be back where we are in six to eight months. I think he understands. I I The only other thing is, the G8 political directors yesterday was pretty good, except they talked about an international authorized by the UN. u e1ne 1S trY1ng to have it redrafted to avoid any 1mp 1cation that we're undermining the common requirements of NATO. That is kind of where the diplomacy is. Sandy and the rest of the Foreign Policy Team will review this 30-day strategic campaign plan -- and I got your message the other day -- and we'll share it with you. And we're making the arrangements for the secure video teleconferencing between our teams. So, we're kind of rocking along here. But I'm concerned with Milosevi9's peace initiative and his release of the POWs and the collateral damage, which is getting publicity. I'm worried about Allied unity. I feel good about continuing this for months, if necessary, but we've got to keep everybody else in harness. Milosevic is in more trouble than we think, or he wouldn't be going to all this trouble to stop the bombing. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: SECRET Yes. +SJ What do you think? -\-&t I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) 3ECRE'l' 3 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: I agree entirely. First, the military campaign is going a bit better, and I think it's beginning to do real damage. Taking out the power stations and blacking out Belgrade .real19 made a difference. The President: They were too wimpy on the NATO thing. Prime Minister Blair: +Bt You've just got to be careful.J I I thlnk It's necessary to have constantly -~a~n~d"I~am~-tr=r~y7l~n~g~t~o get it sorted at this end -- people who go up and talk to those refugees -- everyone has a horror story to tell. The most horrible things have been going on in there. I don't know whether public opinion in other countries is different -- ours is pretty solid -- but most people, if they think the campaign is beginning to work, will hold with it. k5i The President:- Also, there is going back, and there is going back. If they don't think it's strong and reliable and gives them autonomy, even if you and I were there, we would have a problem with the military elements. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I agree. But, Bill, what is your frank assessment about how much damage we are prepared to do in the next month to two months? Ir--~--------~~~--------------------)~ I . IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SEC'tl::E'f ;- 4 SECRE'f I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I . The President: I agree with that. Prime Minister Blair: J2f I The President: I think we should stick where we are. The Europeans feel strongly about it. I don't feel strongly, I could go either way, but I have been publicly strong about leaving it in the country, because I don't want to be accused of having a campaign for a greater Albania and disrupt the frontline states. I think we ought to hang in there. The rest of the EU have been pretty adamant against independence and we ought to hang in there with them on that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: True. \ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: First of all, I strongly agree with that, and we hammered Chernomyrdin on that. Let me tell you how I look at this; I think it might also be helpful on the presentational aspect in Europe. I rarely talk about Kosovo now that I don't talk about Bosnia. It took us almost four years to get that together and get Dayton. We defeated ethnic cleansing, but we did not reverse it, because so many refugees were not going home. The Kosovars have to be able to go home. We not only have to defeat. it, we have to reverse it. When I remind people of our work in Bosnia, I think it reinforces it. I've got a full-time person now doing nothing but Kosovo public affairs and getting these stories out. What I think we need to look at is, either we should have some more of those people -- should we put· more people on it? It's delicate; it's in other countries where this problem exits. I don't want to mess on people's turf. Maybe talk to D'Alema and others about it. It would help if there were more of these people in the Italian press and other 3Ee~ET SECRET 5 countries that are getting a lot of pressure, in the Spanish and Portuguese press and others. k81 Prime Minister-Blair: Is your thinking that public opinion is going soft in those countries? ~ The President: I think it's softer in those than ours and I don't know if they have a strategy for dealing with it. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) I o lng campaign, one thing I hope will happen, now we have hit and taken out most of the bridges, I think we may be able to focus more on power systems. And, looking at all hours at more military targets, that will reduce further horror stories about collateral damage, like the bus that got hit on the bridge. That is, we can do more, more freely and with fewer civilian problems. f.-81 One thing I said here that sends a good message, that shows our resolve: I just comment on the weather, that the weather is better in June than in May and July is better than June. All you've got to do is say that. Psychologically, it's a very good thing to say, and I've said it a couple of times. (S) One or two other things -- we're going to open another camp in Albania, like you are in Macedonia. If it appears we've been too reluctant here and we haven't done enough there, this thing could spin out of control on us and collapse our timetable. We don't want opponents to be able to say we didn't do enough there, so we've got to bring them here. We just have to work on it. I leave this afternoon for Belgium and Germany, so I'll check with you when I get back, or maybe while I'm there. I'll see Dehaene and Schroeder. )Z! Prime Minister Blair: Yes, the Macedonian situation with the refugees is ve~y worrying. We're trying to get unblocked some European money. I talked to Michel Camdessus about the IMF position on Macedonia. I'm trying to get Macedonia to agree to a big transit camp to drain off the problem, and we're also taking some more ourselves. But I think we really have to watch Macedonia. ,~ The President: I do, too. I'm worried about the politics of Macedonia. The government could collapse and consensus could SECRE'P 3ECRET 6 disappear. The countr~ is so small and so poor. could chan e that. ~) E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister-Blair: The president: I ] Good for you. Prime Minister Blair: this. / These numbers ~ We've got to just manage them through I \ "J Kosovo 1S about that is, it's it's not unimaginably large. ,-----. L..,t;:-h=e--:::s"'l-;:z;-::e""-;o""t"-"'t't::h-:::e"-;:c::-::o~u;-;n"'t"..y:-;--::::o-':f""""yr.:o'"'r::"1k""'s"'h""l::-r=e--::"l-=nc-rE""n:-:g=-rra "'n::ld, not small, -but it's not vast: The President: I agree, there is a chance of that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That's bullshit, and we know it. We want, obviously if we could, to get out where Russia plays a bigger role and a pos1tive role. That will reinforce the position of the progressives within Russia and s-tabilize the situation and have a good lead into the 2000 elections. I also think it will help us keep the Alliance together. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I If we can achieve our objectives of having defeated and reversed ethnic cleansing and kept the Alliance together -- with the ties between Russia and the West stronger, not weaker. That might be too much to hope for. (~ SECRET 7 :3EGRET I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: That would be a full hand. great thing to achieve. I It would be a ----'I That's where the people are on tnlS. ,)$) L -_ _ _ _ _ _ The President: I agree. xei Prime Minister Blair: Hillary is going to the camps, is she? ..(-87- The President: Yes. .J.G-'J Prime Minister Blair: Her presence and the pictures that will come out of that -- all the time, we've got to repersuade people, remind them, really. You know the public attention span. We had a terrible nail bomb thing going off in London ut for four ays, Kosovo ceased to be in people's minds. We have to persuade them about it. Littleton happened and obviously the whole of America s tar t s to ref 0 cus . .4-Gt" =--:::------:---------.1 ~.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) rl The President: We didn't want Jesse to be able to bring out those soldiers, because people would feel we had to do a good turn. I mean, we got three guys going home, but a million can't go home. -f€-T Prime Minister Blair: It's a constant, constant business. Her going to the camps will make a big difference. When you go and talk to them, then you realize what you have to do. ~ The President: Alright, my friend. Prime Minister Blair: you soon. (U) The President: (U) Have a good time in Germany. Goodbye. (U) -- End of Conversation. ·SECRB'P Speak to THE WHITE HOUSE . WASHINGTON' MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcen with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: May 8, 1999, 3:26 - 3:46 p.m. EDT Air Force One Tony, can you hear me? Prime Minister Blair: (U) The President: Yes. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Yes, you're on Air Force One are you? This was a "great" day wasn't it? I am afraid these things happen. That's what I said too. ...(-e} J.Q-'r ¢ Prime Minister Blair: I t is bad, but we have just got to steady our nerves on it, really. ..f.Et The President: Yes, that's what I did. I just went out and made a statement saying that we hit several important command and contreltargets, and that the damage to the' Chinese Embassy and the death~ and injuries were completely inadvertent. I extended deep regrets to the people and the leaders of China but said it is important to remember why the strikes were necessary and how to put an end to them. -k8r They asked about the Chinese and Russian r.eactions and whether it could derail the diplomatic efforts we're making toward a peace deal. I said I hoped not because that was the quickest way to get it over with and I restated the conditions and pointed out that we'd done over 10,000 sorties and because TV is 8ECRE'f Reason: 1. 5 Ca, b, dL ' . . '., ~~_____~. Declassify On'; 5/~'9'-~""'~'~-.', :\ :', :~~T~~LIB:\~Y PHOTOCO,~Y_J. {._?.--.::.;~_:.. __ ,-...:"_,-~-,':':"r-,: ._"' ___ ' __ .~-'-./'.:" SECRET 2 in Belgrade, they could cite every time there's unintended consequences, but our pilots have literally risked their lives to avoid hitting innocent civilians in Serbia -- shot at from rooftops and in the middle of civilian areas, they have not responded. They have done everything they could to dodge the weapons and go on. We have to remember what caused these strikes and what could end them, but our conditions have to be met. No one would like to stop them more than me. Jei ~ Prime Minister Blair: That is absolutely right. The TV cameras are not in Kosovo but if they were, they would be seeing people killed every day by Serbs, by Milosevic. ~ The President: Yes. If we had one TV picture of the 15 men being roped together and burned alive, they would be demanding that we bomb the hell out of them, people would be wondering why we haven't leveled the place, but our people need to be telling that to the media all the time. ~ Prime Minister Blair: What I'did today was to get the NATO conference to go through all the atrocities in the last two weeks in Kosovo. We did a press conference on the same theme. I understand when something like this happens, people get very nervous about it, but day after day after day, things are happening without any cameras and no one reports a bit of it. Milosevic can take the cameras to wherever he likes and point to these things. But in Kosovo this is a daily happening, as a result of deliberate policy, not as an accident. J.e1" The President: I am with you. I just wanted to check in to make sure we're on the same page. -0?r Prime Minister Blair: ri ht thing. No doubt, Bill. I'm sure you've said the IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I am with you. Prime Minister Blair: SECRET , " ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECRET 3 ! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! The President: That is right. They asked, 'What about the Russians and Chinese saying this was barbaric?# I said it was not barbaric but a tragedy. We ought to take that word and turn it on them. ~ Prime Minister Blair: You are absolutely right. ! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! The President: Let me ask a couple of questions. In Germany, I did what you suggested. I did an hour interview with the press people from Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Macedonia and Albania. Did it get press coverage? ~ Prime Minister Blair: AbsDlutely, it got a lot of coverage. -t-etThe President: I think we all need to do more of that, reaching into other countries. One other thing, when I was there, I did a lot of spade work with our people working on humanitarian stuff about Macedonia, with the view as quickly as possible of turning Maedonia into a way-station and you know telling them we would move all of the refugees through there. We would need to get Turkey to~gree to take about 100,000, get safe passage for them to Turkey. I believe we have enough money to do this. If my supplemental passes the Senate this coming week, and I think it will, what we would like to do is go to Turkey, with whatever help we get from Europe, and build these camps. We could build camps for 20,000 which are quite comfortable with public space, schools. They are tents, but nice tents. Also, if worse comes to worse, they can be winterized with wooden floors and heaters. They would be quite adequate. Obviously, it would be better to get them to Turkey anyway because the climate is better. )£1 SECRE'l.' f. 4 SECRE'f Then we could build a couple of camps in Macedonia; it would be easier to secure ... a throughway if we could get them direct cash to the government in a hurry -- which you could do quicker than me through the EU -- then tell them we want to make Macedonia a throughway, not permanent stops for refugees. We will be able to get the numbers manageable and stabilize this thing in the next few weeks. If they know where we were going, they'd do a lot better to hold and fend off domestic opponents. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I totally agree. That is an excellent idea and I will do everything to facilitate it. I spoke to Santer about getting European money released. The critical priority is to get money as quickly as possible that will buy their goodwill for forward transit to Turkey. We need to talk to Greece as well, but that is an excellent idea and eXactly what we need to be doing. ~ The President: When' does Prodi take over? ...l8f Prime Minister Blair: It's not quite clear, not for a couple of months. I should think we need to get santer to work on that. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) necessary, we from the EU. Santer in the next The President: too. W If money ourselves and then get it back need money quickly. I will speak to of days. ~ If I get my money this week; I will ship some Prime Minister Blair: If I get the money there, we'll have the goodwill to facilitate all of this. I totally agree this is the right thing to do if Turkey is willing to do it. ~ The President: We can put these camps up in a hurry for 20,000 people for about $20 million by the time you clear the land, work sewage, water and all that. That is $1,000 a person, that's not aIr that much. ..(..&1Prime Minister Blair: When you consider weapons and everything, it is a pretty sensible investment. ~ The President: I will work on this and get your guys in touch with our guys. We have to get money to Macedonia and Turkey to take 100,000, build transit camps in Macedonia that are physically separate and secure a commitment to build camps in Turkey and then get safe passage. We also need to get money to SECRE'f 8ECRET Albania. 5 They've taken a lot in homes now, but we need better (.£-1-" Prime Minister Blair: Right. We need to watch in Albania, particularly because a lot of refugees are living with families and are not getting any support. / L......,,...,,_:::;-_ _ _ _---;-~;----...JI I f necessary we can CiO 1 t ourse.L ves with Germany and France and get it back from the EU. ~ The President: Does -it? .~ The EU Parliament doesn't have to vote on it. Prime Minister Blair: The President: What if you got a letter from every EU member to Santer saying release it tomorrow? Would it help? J81 Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it would help. In the end, we should probably just give them the money ourselves and then get it back from the EU. LM The President: Do we need to call anyone else about this incident with China to buck them up? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I was going to speak to D'Alema anyway. (S) The President: Okay, I will call Jacques. US) Prime Minister Blair: I still think that in the end, the public understands t~at in war these things happen. We have this operation in NATO and SHAPE workin better now. e medla is just bored with picttires of refugees. We need actual pictures of what is happening in KoSovo. ~~~~~~_~_~~~ The President: Okay, I will work on that. great ideas but I'll work on it. ~ 3ECREI IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 I don't have any £ECRE'f 6 Prime Minister Blair: There are ways we could do it. We are looking at, but I think people, all the time, need to be J> reminded of the basic principles. When I went to Macedonia and saw those people, any doubt immediately leaves you. What has happened to these people is just dreadful. We need to make all_ the right diplomatic moves, but just carryon. ~ The President: I'm with you. Where are we on Ireland? kG1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prlme Mlnls er B alr: We got a little bit of a breakthrough last week, because Sein Fein came up with far more positive language. .1 1 I have a totally different proposition which is based on words rather than product and now I have to say to them you may not get product, but you may get better words. ~ Sinn Fein may say, ~you've got better words, we want an answer tomorrow." For six months, we've been trying to get better words. You can't rush. We actually had a good series of meetings at Downin on Thursda and there is some possibilty there. But we're not quite ~y~e~t~a~tZ-~a~n~a~b~s~~~u~t~e~~c~r~i't~l~c~a~~~~~--~~e~n~it is at a critical moment, if you are willing to do so, to help. It may take in the end,· a high profile intervention in this. j.ZJ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Yes. I will do whatever you want me to do. Prime Minister Blair: I know Bill. You've been fantastic on this. I will try to bring this to a boil next week and will keep in touch. (eJ SECREt .(.e) 7 13gCRE'J:' The President: I'll keep working on all of this and if I need to call you again I will. yn Prime Minister"'Blair: The President: Okay Bill. Thank you. (U) (U) -- End of Conversation SECRE'f SECRE'F THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy, Sean Tarver, Roger Merletti, James Smith and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: May 27, 1999, 10;10 - 10:22 a.m. EDT Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. I am fine. Prime Minister Blair: The President: So. How are you? (U) (U) What's happening? (U) How's the indictment going down over there? Prime Minister Blair: ~ I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I agree with that. JQ1 Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 So, anyway, I sent you a note setting out my thoughts. I don't know whether it's reached you yet, I just finished it this morning, but I think the situation is, we are doing a lot of damage, but I think 2 we're right to be stepping up the pressure. We've got to be. % The President: This planning process has got to proceed, because we only have a few days before deciding what else to do but I think 45,000 troops for KFOR is quite good. The more people we have deployed in the area, the more quickly we can move. I agree entirely with you; we· obviously can't afford to lose and have to keep doing everything necessary to make him think that we're ready to intervene and no matter what we can't afford ,to lose. But the combination of the impact of last week's strikes and the fact that the NAC has voted to let NATO increase the number of targets that will be hit and the nature of them and the buildup will give us maximum pressure. I agree with you, I don't care what happens to him, whether he stays there or goes someplace as you've said, like Belarus, it's all right with me if we get our objectives met. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I agree with that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Because you save lives by doing that. I think we are in just about the right frame and it probably hasn't reached you yet, but I have set out in a note what I think you can do if we have to go a step further -- how you would explain that and how you would take people with you. You can set it in er vision for the Balkans and how it's good for people. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That may be. wouldn't do that. E.O.13526 section l.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I think he would. J&r He has been very tough on this so far. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he has and I think they will come along with us. The problem is, until you see a real plan, 3ECRE'f SECRET 3 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 you're a bit in the dark on this. So, I think if we get a clear military consensus, I think people would go with that. yr The President: The military consensus is 175,000 to 200,000 troops, at least that's what our people say, so we could probably do it with less. But one thing we've found out is the more we send in, the fewer will die. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely. i81 The Fresident: So the more unattractive we make it, the safer it is for everyone. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / The President: That is a big problem. They're reeling around. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I think we need to let this thing percolate for a day or two and see what the reaction in Serbia is. There's some chance it will be helpful, and there is a chance that it will be harmful; I would be surprised if it had no impact. So I think we'll see something fairly soon. ~ Prime Minister Blair: \ The President: I agree with that. J21 Prime Minister Blair: SECRE'f I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 4 .3ECRE'f IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Yes, I agree with that. Hillary and I are taking a couple of days off, and I am mulling that over right now. My gut feeling is that I have to give something sooner rather that later. Unless it cracks in two or three days, it's' better to say something very strong, that we have no intention of losing this. Now the good news about the indictment, Tony, is that is makes it less forgiveable for us to lose it. No one can say, 'Oh well, they're just nationalists." I think it is interesting that apparently the whole indictment is premised on Kosovo and shows a systematic government policy. I thought in the beginn:i..ng that if she (Louise Arbour) did do this, some might be based on his role in the Bosnia slaughters. But apparently it's all based on Kosovo. It's quite interesting. And apparently -- I haven't seen it, but apparently it says that it's more than chain of command, it's specific personal things he ordered, not that he was just the head of the apparatus. This will be quite helpful in makin that case. I a ree with E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) away and lS ma lng lt lmpossible for everyone see people are not going to walk away. Prime Minister Blair: I th~k that is right. haven't got this yet -- ()n The President: second. ..(-B-1 I just got it. I just read it. walk V1 As I say, you Just this Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Good. Well, I will be back in a few days and get back with you on that, and we'll keep our fingers crossed. I think the NAC did the right thing by approving a new range of targets. JZ1' SECRET PECRE! 5 Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think it has been a good few days. % The President: Alright, I will talk to you soon. Prime Minister Blair: Alright, Bill, all the best. End of Conversation -- :;,gCRE'f (U) (U) SECRE'f THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Doug Bayley, George Chastain, Frank Jarosinski, Miles Murphy, Don Cheramie and Lawrence Butler June 3, 1999, 6:42 - 6:57 p.m. EDT Oval Office DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: Hi, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: (U) Let's hope it sticks. The President: Yes, I hope it will. best answer. (U) (U) I think you and I gave the Prime Minister Blair: Here (Cologne) it's like trying to stamp down a bush fire. (U) The President: There are a lot of unanswered questions. Maybe 72 hours from now we can celebrate, but we will all look stupid if it turns into a red herring by Milosevic. My response today was 'welcome, but cautious." ).81'" Prime Minister Blair: As I said tonight, of course, the fact that we got an agreement was great news,but it has to be done, it has to be implemented and some trick questions have to be answered in the right way. I E.O. 13526, section tA(b)(d)1 The President: I agree. Academy speech. +eI I turned up the heat at my Air Force SECRE'f Reason: 1.5 (a;b, d ) . . .~~~ __'_-~'?-."' Declassify on:! 61!::~r "'J'·:-,.;.r~· - - - , . Ii !". I~:r?N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY 1- ~:'..'-::.::~.,...::~!~~_:....;,. .-:-c~--..,:--~~L. ~" ,:'"c.;-;>-~, __~./·"';(-.; 3EeRE~ 2 Prime Minister Blair: you've been dotn . Absolutely, I think its critical what I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We have a new problem, but we should be careful·· on this line. Sometime in the next 72 hours I need to talk to you about the planning process. Do you think over the next 72 hours we can talk about this? Do you think we could talk secure over the weekend? ~ Prime Minister Blair: Sure. (U) The President: Just tell them they can dance around a Maypole - you'll hold it up for them while they dance. ~ Prime Minister Blair: should only rejoice when We The President: He's been a champ. Chernomyrdin has been good too and for the Russians this is good too. They have come out well. ..(-et" Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think it is a good thing for Russia. They came out extremely well. ~ The President: It makes them look like a world leader. They don't want to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This should help them with their economic stabilization. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I He is getting a lot of criticism at home. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I mostly agree with that. Absolutely right, people tonight are talking far more positively about them and asking what we can do to help the Russians in economic terms. It really changes the atmosphere there, doesn't it? ~ The President: Yes, it certainly does. The other thing that they and the Serbs should think about is that this saves us a hell of a lot of money that can be used on development, the money we would save from putting in a ground force. Also, the main thing we need to do is look like we remain determined. ~ SECRET 3 Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right. I think, as well, that the stronger message is our support for a democratic Serbia. no. 13526, section I think that is helpful the more it is emphasized. So there we are, Bill. The President: Lets try to talk over the Weekend about planning. I need to get your thoughts. We need to talk about it and get planning. (21 Prime Minister Blair: Yes, several of us made public statements tonight. _l've done it too tonight with the CNN people. Without - .you and America, this show wouldn?t have happened at all. (C) The President: The main thing we all need is to stay strong. We need to share the responsibility for the credit as well as the blame, and we can all dance if we get it done. did call Schroeder and make the same argument. Prime Minister Blair: I was having a bit of trouble with it, but I think that we are right on it. leT The President: I don?t want Milosevic to think that we are so hooked on this deal. Prime Minister Blair: About the success I am absolutely delighted, but only when it is complete. The President: I have made a bunch of deals with this guy over the years. The Dayton Accords is the only one he kept and he kept that because we had bodies on the ground. +er Prime Minister Blair: We shouldn?t forget and people shouldn?t forget what this guy has done. 12.0. 13526, section The President: We?ve got 12,000 troops there now so we can start moving'but then we need a lot of logistics in the move, assuming the agreement works. .46? Prime Minister Blair: The important thing is to get the NATO military people to start immediate planning to get some verifiers going out. $21 4 3ECRE'f The President: Apparently, they are meeting on Saturday. He wanted to wait-until Sunday probably to find out how much wiggle factor, wiggle room he had. They pushed for Sunday and we pushed him back to Saturday. ,.ke) Prime Minister Blair: There is no reason they can't meet tomorrow from NATO's point of view. ~ The President: Saturday is the earliest day we can get Wes to meet them. (i) Prime Minister Blair: Serbs to meet. (-e1 The President: Yes. Prime Minister Blair: This is the quickest we could get the Un I don't like that very much. +et The President: We may know Sunday or Monday where we are. Maybe you and I could talk on Sunday. I need to talk to you ~ about the other option. There is good news and bad news. Prime Minister Blair: Okay, Bill. The President: Keep your fingers crossed. Okay. Prime Minister Blair: Right. (U) (U) End of Conversation SECRET (U) 8ECRE'f THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Pr.ime Minister Blair Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Michael Manning, Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: June 6, 1999, 12:32 - 12:42 p.m. EDT Camp David, Maryland Hi, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: tied down. (V) How are you? (U) I'm anxious until this thing is properly The President: This is exactly what I was afraid of. A bombing pause and then they would try to steal the peace now that we have won the war. The position is that the Russians and Chinese won't let a Security Council Resolution go through until there is a bombing pause, but we won't pause unless there is clear evidence of withdrawal. Funny, but I understand the Serb position; they don't want a vacuum so when their withdrawal starts, they want us to come in. Yesterday, our guys said ~you begin withdrawal, we will pause and try for one day to get a Security Council Resolution. If the Chinese and Russians won't, we'll get a NATO accord and move in immediately." .k81 That was our position yesterday. Today, the Serbs came back and said they couldn't live with this. They want a Security Council Resolution that links the authority to deploy and the authority to run the country under the UN; if there is a delay, we'll return to our pre-conflict force levels before we invaded until the Security Council works it out. That's a nightmare and we can't let that happen. They're trying to steal the peace after we won the conflict. I know you agree with that. I am going to 3ECRE':P Reason: 1.S(a,b,d) Declassify On: 6();'{9!!.fl~:-:----~---·-- -------~-,<, . i~b~NLI~RARY PHOTOCOPY '-'s~~ ." SECRET 2 call D'Alema. I don't know what to do except tell our guys to hang tough. Ahtisaari delayed his China trip. I)t) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I just talked to Ahtisaari. What did he say? J31 yi) E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: ! I The President: I'm not against that. +&r Prime Minister Blair: I said I wanted to think about talk to ou. If we ask him he would 0 do that toni The President: Good for him. and ~ Prime Minister Blair:! I The President: Yes. ~ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: What do we lose? My guy down there, Michael Jackson, is a good bloke, but he is a general not a negotiator. J$t The President: I think Ahtisaari made a good impression on Milosevic. I haven't talked to Sandy, Madeleine or anyone about him going down. But I worry about this thing dragging on. I'm not worried about sending a signal; we need to get this going while the iron is hot. 1St Prime Minister Blair: that. M The President: SECREr Absolutely, I'm in total agreement on You talk to your guys. I'll talk to mine. )Sf 3 SECRET IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l Prime Minister Blair: I told Martti I'd get back to him in an hour. If we want to have a chat to our folks and have them chat.. The President: I agree. nervous as hell all da . from us. I've been waiting for this. I've been We can't let him take the eace away I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I agree 100 percent. The President: We owe it to these people (the Kosovars), and don't forget that they (the Serbs) are asking us to eat a hell of a lot of shit. Now that they want us to sweep out Thaqi and the KLA and give this Authority five years to work, our crowd is going to be at some physical risk too. We have to think down the road here. Look at Bosnia four years later. We're taking on a lot of water here. If we can spring some money from the IMF and the World Bank ... but there are all kinds of hurdles with that. Well, you and I are in the same place. We can't let our folks get weak on this. If the Europeans stay hitched on this, we should be okay in a day or two. I might give Chretien a call too. He has a lot of friends over there in Europe. I know he agrees with us. We may have to do some hand holding on this. 1.21 Prime Minister Blair: [ I agree. J IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll call Sandy now and talk to our guys and then I'll try to call D'Alema, and decide who else I should call. If there is any other problem, I'll be available. It's sunny here. I may go out, but I'll have phones with me. ~ SECREg:} SECRE~ 4 Prime Minister Blair: I have some people I really trust out there at the negotiations. Okay, our people will be in touch . .J.&tThe President: If this thing is going to be drug out for another 72 hours or so, we may also need a story about how our planning is continuing. We have to put a squeeze on and we can't let them get the peace. Okay, we have a vigorous agreement going here, so we don't need to waste time. I'll talk to Sandy and we'll be in touch. Goodbye. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation "'~""'--~~------.- --- ---- •• - - :~~",~N LIBRARY PHO:OCOPY ~ ........ ! I SECRET· THE WHITE HOUSE WAS H 11\1 (:iTO 1\1 DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 63 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Tony C~mpanella, Michael Manning, Robin Rickard, Roger Merletti and Lawrence Butler June 7, 1999, 9:55 - 10:06 a.m. EDT Oval Office DATE, TIME AND PLACE: Prime Minister Blair: what I know? . (U) The President: Yep. Prime Minister Blair: Hi Bill. Now do you want me to tell you (U) The talks broke off. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l Do you see what I mean? k81 2 The President: Yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Yes. I completely agree with everything you've said. The key here is where the Russians are on this. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) just have to be tough as hell with them. accord with where you are. )-l;-<~:'~~~"~:~:'-' ,)._.,:')c:. :._\;--/;,-,-~~'f[· Thank you. SECRET THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Matt Sibley, Robert Ford, George Chastain, Sean Tarver, Jim Smith, Roger Merletti and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: June 10, 1999, 9:09 - 9:27 a.m. EDT Oval Office The President: Hey, I just called to say thanks, it's been a good run. Life's greatest curse is the answer to our prayers; now we have to figure out how to get all those people back in, without getting blown up by all those landmines. I had Elie Wiesel here -- do you know him? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes. (U) The President: He's a Holocaust survivor, and an advisor. I sent him to some of the camps, and he said, ~boy, there is so much anger there. Every Kosovar believes he knows the Serb who ousted him." (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, it's going to be tough, isn't it? tell you what, it could be a lot worse. (U) The President: Well, it's quite wonderful. (U) Prime Minister Blair: At least now it will be a problem of construction instead of destruction. (U) The President: We've just got to hold everybody together and keep working on it. (U) SECRET I SECRET 2 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ Prime Minister Blair: ~~~~~~~~~-'__-nvr________________________~[line drops, and is reestablished. The President: Hey, Tony, I'm sorry. (U) Prime Minister Blair: No, no, it's our fault. person who dropped the line executed. (U) I'll have the [Laughs] The President: We're trying to think through the obvious questions, about how fast we can get people back in and clear out the landmines, and we need to flush out Macedonia first. -1-e:I Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yeah, we have to keep working on that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I am, too. There are not a lot of places he can go, given his indictment by the war crimes tribunal. Maybe Russia or Belarus would take him, or maybe he'd get a Pinochet deal and leave him in Serbia. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / /~--------~-------------------~==~~~~I IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d~ L -_ _ _ _ _. The President: Yeah, we can't do that. We need to look at basic humanitarian conditions, and make sure the lights are on by winter,/ I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) \L ______~============~/ SECRE'P .~ , I 3 SECRET I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: The President: We have to do that, too. Frankly, I don't know what else I can do. I've been reading about it all through this, because my daughter just happens to be doing a paper on Adams. I don't know what the real deal is between him and the IRA. It'phard to put pressure on him when you don't know . what's going on. It's just bizarre. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I We've got to keep working on it, and I'll do whatever you want me to do. yr:). Let me say this: we sent out our top people to NATO for Kosovo, we need to do the same thing with getting the refugees back and setting up a government. Whatever the formal structure, we have to put our best people in to set up the mechanics and make this thing work. There are literally thousands of detail questions that we have to answer. ~ Prime Minister Blair: \ ~ '----------~/ The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b) The major concern I have about the person on top is I want someone with confidence and energy to do this thing.· I want someone to go there and stay. --fG+Prime Minister Blair: I The President: The commander of the overall military is going to be British, isn't h.e? I think he's good. I haven't met him, but I've seen him on TV. -+er Prime Minister Blair: 2ECRET L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ~ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 4 SECRET The President: Anyway, this won't require our obsession like the battle, but it will require our attention for the next 10 days. (Z). Prime Minister Blair: Cologne meeting? JRr Right, well, Bill, you'll be over for the The President: Yeah, when we come to Cologne, we should have major questions to answer as a body. We need to boost Yeltsin and his pro-reform forces. I wish we could resuscitate Chernomyrdin, and I realize this may be more water than we can carry. J,.e1 I'd like to have him and Ahtisaari there to receive our thanks. We may want to think about this. They did a hell of a job for us. I think we also ought to think about some other things at Cologne. We need to have good positions coming out of Cologne for debt relief, and because of compound interest and falling incomes, I think it will be a big deal there. We also need to do more on the AIDS issue. According to our people, one percent of the people in the world have AIDS. ~ Prime Minister Blair: In Africa the numbers are staggering, and in a country like South Africa it's just massive. (ei The President: And you've got 60 million people more or less, and 35 million in Africa, and the number is going to double in the next four years. kef Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! The President: Yeah, let's see where they are with the World Bank. Russia collapsed politically and economically after .1995. It also deteriorated with Yeltsin's health problems even though he was reelected in 1996. )Qt [Line drops and is reestablished.] The President: Hi, Tony. Solana is on TV. (U) You need to go to the press now. Prime Minister Blair: Right, I'm sorry about that. Let's speak before Cologne. (U) The President: Yeah we need to talk. (U) Okay, yes. ~ECRE'P 5 Prime Minister Blair: Right, let's talk again before Cologne. (U) The President: Okay. Goodbye. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation aEGRE'f CON'FIlJEM'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 65 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Jenny McGee, George Chastain, Robert Ford, Joel Ehrendreich, Jim Smith, Roger Merletti June 21, 1999, 2:26 - 2:33 p.m. EDT Ljubljana, Slovenia DATE, TIME AND PLACE: Prime Minister Blair: The President: your soldiers. Hello, Bill. (U) Hey, Tony, I called to tell you I'm sorry about (U) Prime Minister Blair: Thanks very much. It's very kind of you to call. We're still trying to find out the details. (U) The President: Tony? (U) [Call dropped and reestablished.] The President: You're still trying to get the news? seen is what's on CNN. (U) All I've Prime Minister Blair: We don't know how much more than that at the moment. It appears one of them was a sergeant, and they were trying to demine a school, and a mine went off. I'm afraid we're going to see quite a bit of this before it's all through. (U) COHFIDEN'fIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5 (d) Declassify on:; J. 2 COl,PIDEfi"'fIAL The President: Yes. They said it might have been more like a booby trap than a traditional mine. It's difficult to tell whether they're deactivated. (U) Prime Minister Blair: And it was in a school, I think. Well, they're pretty sick, actually. As more comes out about these Serb soldiers, it really is unbelievable. (U) ~~~~~~~~~~~ The President: There was a show are at America and me. Our guys interviewed with yesterday seems close to showing the truth about They're going to have to come to . Prime Minister Blair: on CNN on how mad the Russians told me this TV station I to be the only one that came what Milosevic was up to. grips with it. (U) I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 The President: I think in the near term we have to check the schedule by which our people are moving in. There was also a special about the French troops trying to separate the Serbs and the Kosovars. JR1 Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 The President: Well, I won't keep you. I feel like we had a good G-8. I just wanted you to know I'm sorry about your men. (U) That's kind of you, Bill. I thought we Prime Minister Blair: had a good G-8, too. So you're off to Macedonia tomorrow? (U) The President: Yeah, I'm going to a state dinner in Macedonia [n.b., the President meant Slovenia] tonight, and Djukanovic, I'll give you a readout in the Montenegrin President, is here. a couple of days. )ei Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay, Bill. Goodbye, Tony. Goodbye. (U) -- End of Conversation CmtFIDEHTL".L (U) CONFIDBNTL"tL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) The President Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: Notetakers: Bob Ford, Joel Ehrendreich, Rob Williams, Jenny McGee, Roger Merletti and James Smith DATE, TIME AND PLACE: June 3D, 1999, 3:14 - 3:22 p.m. EDT Chicago, Illinois Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. (U) How are you doing? Prime Minister Blair: Pretty grim. (U) I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONFIDEN'fIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5(qJ Declassify On:! i. 7 ~~. 5~~:C:::~:Haroco}l.· l ">-, , . ~.~-~~:~:_ "-/~- ~ __ "';!!-.: .J~' .-i I . ..- ' . _ ~-._';'_ ,_.!-./>.;--:~: •• ,." 2 CONFIDEN'flhL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: do now? j...G-Y What exactly do the unionists want Sinn Fein to Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / ~ ~ L - - - -_ _ _ _ The President: That way the IRA doesn't look like it's surrendering to the unionists? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONn DEN'!' IAL 3 COktFI DENT IAb IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: It looks like you could manage this marching thing if you could solve the bigger problem. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Which means i f they meet all the local people's conditions, they could march. JRf Prime Minister Blair: J I I The President: Are you going back to the meeting now? Prime Minister Blair: Yes. J,e1 ~ The president: Do you want me to call them in a couple of hours -- Adams and Trimble? ~ Prime Minister Blair: / I The President: Right now? ~ ~ Prime Minister Blair:/ L-----------------~/ The President: Why don't I monitor it from here? ~ IrE-.O-.1"C":3-52-6-,-se-c-ti-on-1,-4(-b-)(---'d)l CONFI DEN''l'IAL 4 CGNF I DEN'fIAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: The President: I will check in where I am in 20 minutes to see if they're through. JBr Prime Minister Blair: \ I The President: If they're in a meeting, I will wait until they finish to call them. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / The President: They, the unionists? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: J&r Yes. Prime Minister Blair: / The President: Okay, I'm on it. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks, Bill. Goodbye. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 (U) (U) (U) -- End of Conversation -- CO~IFIDEN'fIAL COHFIDEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) I 'I ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut uo. 67 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM~-F-TELEPHONE-C:ONVERSATI~O~N~--------------~ SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Jarosinski DATE, TIME AND PLACE: Sean Tarver and Frank June 30, 1999, 9:25 - 9:38 p.m. CDT Chicago, Illinois Prime Minister Blair: Hi, Bill. (U) The President: You are where you were last time we talked, aren't you? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes. "'===:;======~:;;""'=~--":"----' The President: I know. take my call now? .Jrf?'r Prime Minister Blair: The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 It's just terrible. Yes. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Make a counterproposal? Prime Minister Blair: Will Trimble even ~ Yes. I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I The President: Yeah. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFIDENTIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5 (d) Declassify on:}' '~t;' -~,~ .-~--- C<'\ , r (~,', '" ',' .INTON LI~RARY PHOTOCOPY']' . .;?-~,~;~~:... , ..."~.,.;;., ,~.:.>~". :.. i-;,,~/""'-?'~ . ~ 2 CmJFI DEN'fIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Is that their counterproposal one? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: What is Gerry Adams saying in response? (~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: You mean put that through Parliament? Prime Minister Blair: The President: ~ ! What did he say? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ The President: Do you think keeping them up all night will get them weary and make them give in? ~ cmlFI DENT L'\L 3 CONFI DENT L",L IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I You mean let them get a little sleep . ...+8- Prime Minister Blair: \ Yes . \ [ The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Is there anything I can say to Gerry Adams? Anyth~ng e states can offer them to help them politically to move closer to where Trimble is? You know I actually have far more popularity within the Catholic community than the Protestant community. Most of the Protestants think I am a turncoat. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: You offered him an act of Parliament, right? .JR!I Prime Minister Blair: Yes. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONFIDE~lTIAL cmIFIDEN'fIAL 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: So, they are not a judge of it? Prime Minister Blair: The President: ____________________________~I .ye1 I Do you think Trimble will take that? Prime Minister Blair: The President: ~I God, I think that is the best deal. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. ~ I But Gerry thinks that is like crying uncle. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Especially if Great Britain can be the guarantor of both sides. If you have legal authority; they won't understand that. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Yes. So I should tell Adams that Trimble will help him work through that? ~ 5 COHFI DEN'fIPrL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Let me ask you this. a halt until tomorrow morning? (Z) Are you going back to call Prime Minister Blair: Yes. I have a little fiddling around to do, but probably in the next quarter hour. ~ The President: Do you believe I should call in the next half hour or let them sleep first? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I would call them now. ~ The President: Okay, I will start to call them. My national security people are in if you need to call me in the middle of the night. I know what to say now. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I will try to call them now. ~ The President: You think I might be able to get them in the next ten minutes? yc) Prime Minister Blair: Yes. )X'r The President: Okay, I am getting ready to get on the plane, so (U) let me see what I can do. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Alright, Bill. Okay, goodbye. (U) (U) End of Conversation CONFI DEN'!' lAL CONFIDEN'l'IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy, Matt Sibley, Amy Swarm and Roger Merletti DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: July 1, 1999, 7:26 - 7:58 a.m. EDT The Residence Hello Tony? Prime Minister Blair: (U) Sorry, it must be early morning for you. (U) The President: It's fine. (U) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONFI DEH'l'IAL Classified by: Reason: 1.5(d Declassify On: Glyn T. Davies G'" -- . ~ <.>"-~ ~.' "---~"" 7/8 (", :~~TON LI~RARY PHOTOCOPY' "~I :..._~~;.'.~~~:-::.: _""' ..;'_';'';-'''~''';''':':'{:':;':_I: __ :':, .;~.•~•. ,':.. .-!".i:;:~f:: .," '. 2 CONF! DEN'±' IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I talked to Adams about that for a long time. I spent the better part of a year trying to convince him that ought to be his position without success. And last night I do believe, rightly or wrongly, his belief is that he made some significant commitments esterday about what he is E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: L-__~I=E=.O=.=13=5=26=,=se=ct=io=n=1=.4=(b=)(=d)~I____~I The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: CGNFIDEN'PIAb Yes. ~ ~ ., ~ '-.'~ CON'FIDEN''fIAL 3 The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Did they commit to follow Chastelain's timetable? ..)-e} Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: CQNFI DEN'l' IA!7 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) 4 Cotifr'I Il:l!:l--_... --"" J -}--.-<,..,~,~" . .,'~ I think we're CONPIDEH'fIAL 2 The President: Yes. of October? ~ They say they can't do it before the end Prime Minister Blair: Yes, they can't do it earlier. ~ The President: It would be interesting to see if they would do it earlier if they can get in earlier. ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, I can see that, actually. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I'm happy to. Do you want me to call tonight? Do they know about the proposal? JZ} CO~tFI DENTIAL 3 CONn lJ!!:N'f IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'll call Trimble tonight. Prime Minister Blair: Gerry tonight? ~. j I ~--------------~ The President: Because Bertie's gone back to Dublin, right? .-+er Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he has. Jim can check. ;e1 The President: I will have Jim check to see if the Irish have talked to Gerry. If they have, I will call him. In any event, I'll talk to David. When I call him, what should I say? That I hope he takes this deal? ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes, that's right. I ~ '--------------~ The President: Yes. And you will make this agreement public tomorrow? This proposal? ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes.} The President: At what point tomorrow will you publicly float this? So I could make a public comment. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Our people will coordinate with folks. Hang on just a second. our I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Yes, I shouldn't talk to Gerry before the Irish. That would be usurping. )J21' cm1FIDE~f'l'IAL " 4 CONFIDENTIAL Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Got it. Prime Minister Blair: The President: ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Get some sleep. ~ Prime Minister Blair: You, too. I'm sorry. It was very helpful when you talked to them yesterday. je1 The President: Okay. Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation CQI>IFI P8HTIAL _CONFIDENTIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair I (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Miles Murphy, Robin Rickard, Don Cheremie, Doug Bayley and James Smith DATE, TIME AND PLACE: July 2, 1999, 6:39 - 6:48 p.m. EDT Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. (U) Well, congratulations. Prime Minister Blair: (U) IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 ~========~----------~ The President: Yes, but old Trimble was in a good frame of He was mind. I was stunned. I I ~3¥~ ttc~"n ~4(d) I pretty proud of himself when a eDlm. J,R:) I F? Prime Minister Blair: Did you talk to him? JQr The President: Yeah, I talked to him an hour ago, 30 minutes ago. He was really upbeat, saying it's bad and it'll get worse, but it'll get better. He went through a laundry list of who was with him, who was against him, who was on the fence. I told him I would call them if he wanted. I told him what we always agreed I'd tell him. I was very encouraged to see how upbeat he was. vJ Prime Minister Blair: When I left a couple of hours ago, I was I a bit down. / E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l ] I CONFIDENTIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1/5 (d,) Declassify on:! CONFIDEN'l'IltL 2 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I think it is and I think he may be there now. -+etPrime Minister Blair: Do you mean that?/ The President: Absolutely. I told him, give me a list; I will call every damn one of them. J.&r Prime Minister Blair: I had no idea. ~--------------------------~/ The President: i t . ...J!C( He said Taylor was with him, but I'm glad to do Prime Minister Blair: The President: Adams was in a good humor, too. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 J The president: I'll keep doing it. Trimble said it will be a real hard sell, but I think I could do it. He was really in a very good place. That is all I know. ~ [The line dropped and was reestablished.] The President: Sorry. Prime Minister Blair: airport. (U) The President: My fault. Are you in London? Prime Minister Blair: CmlFIDg~ITL", ~~~-;-:~~~:- :..:..~ ~_>_ ~~ <. ' - . ......... _ __ :;_ -;':'" . :'~ _.¥ .f,-~-~,:. 2 COMFI DEN'fIAL reservations. Prime Minister Blair: here's where we are. The President: Interesting. Yes, I agree. It's getting a Now, on the Irish issue )<1 Prime Minister Blair: / E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)/ CG~TF IDEN'l'IAL 3 CGHFIDEHTI}\L The President: What does the Good Friday Accord say on the timing of prisoner releases? (~ e Prime Minister Blair: It says that it's in the hands of the body thatd~als with prisoner releases and shbuld run up to May 2000. But it also says that decommissioning should run to May 2000 as well. """ ,...; -.. .:::= '"' '" 'IS rrl "l ..... o~ The President: Yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I got nowhere with Hume on SDLP after I talked The President: with you. So I don't know if I can nose around there again. LQ1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Adams is still holding out the position that nobody else should be in the executive even if it is all their fault. .JGt" Prime Minister Blair:/ CONFI DEN':FIAL COHPIDEN''l.'IAL 4 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d~ . The President: Yes, I agree with that but I don't know what that does for you on the other side. 1er Prime Minister Blair: I don't know either for the minute. I The President: Yes, well I'll look at what is ... I think the IRA might give some kind of commitment that there would be a statement after July 15. ~ Prime Minister Blair: CQWFIDg~ITL'lrL I R.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I COWFWENTIAL 5 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ The President: tf) Yes, alright, let me see what I can do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Okay, Bill, I'll be around anytime. think the next two days. are pretty crucial, really. ~) The President: Well, I'll see what I can do. Prime Minister Blair: then. (U) . The President: Thanks, Bill, I'll speak to you soon Goodbye. (U) -- End of Conversation -- CONFIDEN'i'IAL ~ I CQNFIDEfi'I'IAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 72 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Liz Rogers, Michael Manning, Rob Williams, Joel Ehrendreich and Lawrence Butler DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: July 12, 1999, 1:56 - 2:01 p.m. EDT Oval Office Hello? Prime Minister Blair: (U) Hi, Bill, sorry to trouble you again. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Yes, McGuinness is here. CONFIDEN'fIAL Classified by: Glyn T. Davies Reason: 1.5 (d);, Declassify On: JR1 2 CQNFIDENTIAL -IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Won't the IRA say this is just changing the sequencing again. Basically they have a matter of mistrust. They still think they're going to get jacked around on the executive on this, don't they? Jei Prime Minister Blair: The President: Let me ask you this. What about the legislation itself? I hear the SDLP has problems with it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I The President: But do you think the legislation problems would go away if you had any statement from the IRA? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I think s The President: Could you change the legislation to overcome directives if you get the IRA statement? -H=T ~ Prime Minister Blair: L - I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ / The President: Let me call you back. When are you going to bed? It must be getting pretty late there now. (U) Prime Minister Blair: It's only 7 o'clock now. (U) I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 cmlFIDEHTIJ'IJ, ; 3 CQNFIDEN'T lAL Tte President: Let me see what I can do. I'll call you back. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay, thanks, Bill. Okay, goodbye. (U) -- End of Conversation GO~lFIDEH'fIAL (U) COHrI Dg~IT III L THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Don Cheramie, Robin Rickard, Bob Ford, James Smith and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: July 16, 1999, 10:09-10:33 a.m. EDT Camp David, Maryland Hello? Prime Minister Blair; The President; (U) Hi, Bill. (U) Well, today is not as bad as yesterday, is it? J;if Prime Minister Blair: I think that is the right analysis. (f) The President: I just had Barak here, and he said how much you had done to help. He admires you so much. We had a great talk. (e) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: seeing Massimo D'Alema on Monday. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)D .J.e1 . The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) CONFIDElffIAL Classified by: Reason: 1.5 (d!) Declassify On:i (IZ) I am CeitH'IB~M'fIA:L Prime Minister Blair: is he? .(.e) 2 He's quite optimistic on the peace stuff, The President: Prime Minister Blair: That is a bit of hope, then . . ~ The President: The other nice trivial thing is that the British Open is humiliating every golfer in the world. The average score yesterday was 79. (U) Prime Minister Blair: It's the bloody weather, is it? (U) The President: Yes. They have made i t has hard as they could. They enjoy making people miserable. It's quite good, though. (U) Prime Minister Blair: We must get you up there playing someday. (U) The President: Where are we? I hope I gave a helpful statement yesterday. I said that I had failed to persuade them to work it out, too, and we should just go on from here. ;e1 Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 GONFIDENTIM COHFIDEH'fIAL 3 '1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: There's nothing to do now, is there? Mitchell going to do something to help a bit? .,.kef Prime Minister Blair: That would be helpful, Bill. Is George I The President: COHFIDE~J'l'VrL Yes. ye1 1E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONnDK~JTPL 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: They can't have it both ways. So many of them, I believe, there are so very many of them who are having a hard time,- whatever they say, in letting go of it. It's like their security blanket. Imagine what their lives are like, a certain amount of romance, danger, drama fe1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: -- power. You're asking them to put a little white bread sandwich in a lunchbox and go off to work at the factory. It'll be hard for them. ~ Prime Minister Blair: You mentioned this once before, I don't know if you recall. I have put some people to work on that. I The President: Sinn Fein proper can imagine themselves running social services agencies or political services, but somebody ought to talk to Gerry about what are their people going to do with their lives when this is over. I think it's a big problem. It plays on their psychology. I just -- I've been thinking a lot of what I'm going to do when I leave here, but -- this may be a big postulate -- but what if I had been a romantic terrorist, especially lately, when it wasn't a lot of work and you didn't have to set off more than one bomb every two years, you know? I think you really have to think about what we can do not only to guarantee their security and safety, but to give some meaning to their lives, some way that they can participate in the new Ireland. I may be wrong, but I think it's a huge problem for Gerry Adams, even if most are not aware of what the real problem is. )£1 Prime Minister Blair: I agree. I have some people working on that. ~J_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~ C O~IFI DEHT IAL J E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)J 5 CONFI DEHTIAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: They should be asked whether they have ever actually talked to these people about what they would do with their lives when this is over. They may have some ideas, but I can't help but believe that is a big problem here. If Gerry thinks it's silly, at least you've opened it with him and he should consider doing something. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: weekend, too. We will do that. I'll call some of our Irish guys over the ~ Prime Minister Blair: I I COHFIDENTIJ'.L I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONFIDEN'1'L",L E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 I 6 The President: Do you think I should come over there? what you were going to say? rer Prime Minister Blair: Is that I was going to say it is not a bad idea . .....(.ff The President: day trip. JQ1 Okay, I'll do it. I can do an overnight or a Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'll call George and some of our congressmen over the weekend. I'll get on that. Maybe I can do that, if George can come up with something different. It wouldn't be very different, but it could look different. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Bill, one other thin IKO. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Yes, we have to have something there. see George Soros' article? ~ Prime Minister Blair: No, I didn't. Did you ~ The President: It's what you're arguing, but on a faster timetable. He is arguing for a customs union within the Balkans and some provision where you put them on a clear path to EU membership as a region. Even if Serbia gets rid of Milosevic, you can't deal with them on a nation-by-nation basis, because of the inter-ethnic problems. He basically said they need to come up with a regional currency to force them together. It's quite COWFIDE~l'TIl'.L 7 • CQNFIDKNTL",L a clever piece. Soros is not always right, but he's a genuine visionary. I will get someone to fax it over to you. And I'11 see what we can say on the 30 th • )Zl ./ Prime Minister Blair: Maybe our people should talk. I think we have to have an impact beyond just holding a conference. J,Q-)" I agree with that. We sure as hell can't go The President: just have a conference. Alright, man. Keep your over there and chin up. .kef Prime Minister Blair: All the best. The President: Goodbye. Okay. (U) (U) End of Conversation CONFIDEN'FIAL . CONFIDENTIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut uo. 74 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Bilateral Meeting Between The President and Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: United States The President Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs James Steinberg, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs Steven Ricchetti, Deputy Chief of Staff Gene Sperling, Assistant to the President for Economic Policy and Director of the National Economic Council Antony Blinken, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for European Affairs, NSC Staff (notetaker) Great Britain Tony Blair, Prime Minister John Sawers, Diplomatic Advisor Allistar Campbell, Press Secretary Private Secretary - DATE, TIME PLACE: June 18, 1999, 1:40 - 2:35 p.m. Hyatt Hotel, Cologne, Germany The President: Tony, you did a very good job on the debt issue. If we can make it work, that will mean almost 2/3 debt forgiveness for the poorest countries. This would be a real step forward. The Jubilee has enormous appeal -- getting rid of all the debt for the millennium. But it also has real problems that we would need to access before we embrace the concept. For example, Bob Rubin points out that for countries that may want to borrow more who get 100 percent forgiveness, wiping out their debt will be much harder for them because it will effect their credit rating. Maybe we should look at adding rescheduling CONFI±:lE~JTIAL Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke Reason: 1.5 (~).. Decla"ify OU,( . . _ . JUIE~'-'2- _~u-'c-~ e:"., '. mTON LiBRARY PHOTOCOpy ~~~_:2.~~~~::. t "..}_._-__:::--):,", . ,' COHFI D£HTIAL 2 without taking them out of the credit market. Rubin feels very strongly about this. But anyway, what we need to do is focus on the fact that we are doing a huge deal here. This is a major achievement. We must not let what we are not doing become the s or. It's what we are doing that's important. je1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I '- Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I fully agree with that.) I Jim Steinberg: The problem is specifying who. That is, who are the 1,000 companies and why are we choosing them. I think it woul~be better to callan the private sector as a whole. kef The President: That's true but on the other hand this needs to be organized. We can't just calion companies to act. ~ Jim Steinberg: Well there is a legal question when asking specific companies. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Gene Sperling: The problem of asking specific companies is that there could be a feeling of coercion. )£1 The President: I think the thing to do would be to designate a lead person in the business community to do this. That's what we did on welfare. I asked Eli Segal to run a voluntary program. ter Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Gene Sperling: It would be a real political challenge to support. And also I think there would be concern that we have opened the door at the last moment. ~ The President: The problem frankly is Congress. It is a different party and not likely to do me any favors and so I do not think we would get support. The way it works is that there is an allocation to each committee. It is always less for foreign affairs. So we are forced to choose among programs. CONFIDEN'PIAL CQl)IFIDEN'FIJrL 3 There is a real weakness of commitment to foreign aid, especially since the end of the Cold War. We have a big surplus. If I take the caps off, the Republicans will push for a tax cut. We have made a commitment to save Social Security. So it wouidbe hard to do this without opening a Pandora's Box. We need to wait to see if we get an omnibus deal. So I am reluctant to look like we are urging this and then be in a position where we can'tdelivet. But if we can quietly see that there is a consensus on this, I can say to Congress this is what the whole world wants to do. It is a good idea on the merits. But it would be better to forge a consensus here than for us to lead on this issue given the politics. Also, we will have another shot over the next couple of years. J21 Tony, do you want to talk about Kosovo? I have one big point to make: you had a huge impact on the execution of this campaign and on our ability to sell what we needed to do. You realized the need to improve our communications. Now, the big decision we have to face is making sure that this works. There is a huge effort in bringing people back, in rebuilding lives, in spite of the magnitude of the crisis. There is a mental health crisis. I sent Elie Wiesel to the region to talk to the refugees. I talked to Jesse Jackson about this. All of us agree that we need some kind of systematic, organized effort maybe working through faith groups. We need to start. But before even all of that, the UN must pick someone we would hire to oversee the civilian implementation. Nationality doesn't matter to me. All that counts is confidence, energy, and organization skills. Those are the ke s. The Economist had a uff eace on Bildt. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I fully agJee. decision. Who are the candidates? ~) This is a critical Samuel Berger: No one has emerged that I am aware of. The selection seems to focus on former Foreign Ministers or defeated Prime Ministers. With all respect, that is the wrong mind-set. We need a CEO-type. Je1 The President: There must be a terrific European business person who has worked in the Balkans, for example. Someone with imagination and executive ability. Je1 CONFIDEN"i'IAL 4 CotilPIDEN'f'IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: European. J.e1 Yes he is, but of course, the Europeans want a Prime Minister Blair: The President: weeks. r...e1 Well I am happy with an American. I am afraid that the UN will dither on this for Prime Minister Blair: Yes, Samuel Berger: If I could just raise one idea. You both should lay down a marker with the Secretary General on how you see the job. You should imply a veto right. In other words, you together would expect he would not appoint someone without your approval. t,.e) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Anyway, I don't know your politics in Europe. But I do know that this is our deal. If it fails, it will be our failure. My have no preconceived notions and no conditions on nationality. My only concern is confidence. ~ Jacques Klein is tough and good. But I keep coming back to the bottom line -- whoever it is has to be up to the job. ~ John Sawers: .....(.Gt- Allister Campbell: I I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 COHFIDEN'PIAL CONFIDEN:t'IAL 5 The President: I don't think the Secretary General is thinking ask who is the and Europe. Who Y POSl lon lS on 00 navigated the shoals of partisan politics and never anything. This requires special additional skills. have loved to have the job myself. (x1 Prime Minister Blair: from scratch. (U) I would Yes, it really is rebuilding a country If I were the head of a company, I'd love this Prime Minister Blair: We should start di least there is a good choice. The President: for names so at This must not be about politics. Prime Minister Blair: ~ I The President: I KO. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: In the end, this really is a unique position. It's like being the procounsel of a country. You need communication skills, executive skills. John Sawers: I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: On the issue of relief we've got $1 billion earmarked for the short-term. On long-term reconstruction, I guess we have this conference in the Fall. On the EU's Stability Pact, we want to contribute but since most of the money is European, it's hard for us to shape it. I think we need to take a step back and look at the Marshall Plan, and also think about what we want this to look like in ten years. We CONFIDENTIAl. 6 COHFI DEN l' 1M need a prosperous Balkans so there is less temptation for conflict. We want it to be more integrated with Europe. With the EU, with NATO. The first thing we need to do is to define the universe: Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, ~acedonia, Albania, Montenegro, Kosovo. And Serbia if we can get rid of Milosevic. I think we need to apply one of the central ideas of the Marshall plan which is to get the beneficiaries to meet together and define their own vision of the Balkans, how they would use the money, how they would apportion it. We need to force them to assume responsibility for their own future. They need to have a real plan and develop themselves with our help. There are some real smart u s there that can do this, Prime Minister Blair: Yes, IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: That's true. We all need to think about what more we can do. We, in the United States, need to think about whether we should say to Congress that we should accelerate accession for some of the Balkan countries into NATO. You might consider the same thing for the European Union. Should there be a customs Union with the EU, like Turkey. Should you accelerate the session process? If you think we, should push the envelope, we can push Schroeder, Chirac and D'Alema to think about this~ j.Q1 Prime Minister Blair: I agree we should push the envelope. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: We need direct aid too. We've already got some going for Albania and Macedonia. I think we need to structure our assistance in Kosovo in a way that is helpful to the Front Line States. For example, using their construction companies. We need to get people on the ground to start turning our roadrnap for the Balkans into reality. We need the person, we need the plan, we need an approach that takes into account the whole region. What I think we should do on the Stability Pact is for us and Prodi to convene a meeting in the Balkans maybe in Sophia. Bring all the people together, the U.S., the EU, the CONP! DEN'!' IAL 7 cmIFHlEN'I'IAb concerned countries, and the international financial institutions. We need to forge a common vision and get their buy in. We need to start a process for them to meet and to plan their own future. It's not like these people are not smart. ¢ Prime Minister Blair: way to proceed. Jet Yes, I agree that would be a very good The President: Similarly, we need to decide whatever we can do with NATO, the EU, and with aid. We need to get to work. If we can get the people in the region bought in, it will change the d namics and sychology of people and the region. ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prlme Mlnlster B air: I agree very strongly. Samuel Berger: We also have to solve this problem with the Russians. I think we are almost there. (U) I I 1'===~--------------------~ John Sawers: Samuel Berger: Actually, that's been sorted out. The real problem that still needs to be resolved is that Yelstin continues to want a sector. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Let me make clear my view: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: I think we all need to watch them. If we have something that we can live with, I don't mind letting them declare victory so we can just get this out of the headlines and move on. Right now they are in the way and we need to resolve this. I want to nail this Russian thing down. The other reason is that I am truly worried that Yeltsin might make a dangerous decision. He thinks we are trying to extend our sphere of influence. He just doesn't understand we are trying to make a more peaceful Europe and reverse ethnic cleansing. But I think he wili do the right thing at the end. ~ Prime Minister Blair: CONFIPEN'I'IAlJ We need to close on this today. (U) CONTI DEN'I' IAL 8 The President: Yeltsin is the only Russian leader who truly hates communism, believes in freedom and integration with the west. vz! Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I agree with that. In addition, we need a huge effort to move the center of Russian politics. I think one way to do that is for us to get more parliamentarians there. It's a huge effort to go to them and to bring them to us in a more . systematic way but I think it's worth it. That will really help to educate politicians there and move them to the center. We need to combat their insularity. 02f Prime Minister Blair: I know we have run out of time but at some point I would like to have a few words about Northern Ireland. tel' The President: Yes, I've got some ideas that we should discuss. Let's try to find some time this afternoon. -+et End of Conversation GONFI QEHTIM cor,nSENTIAl CONFIDEH'fIAL /,11 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 75 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SVBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (V) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Michael Manning, Deana Sutliff, Roger Merletti, James Smith and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: September 8, 1999, 5:13 - 5:32 p.m. EDT Oval Office Hello. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (V) Hi, Bill. (V) Tony, how are you? (V) Prime Minister Blair: Fine, I'm great. holiday and I'm feeling good. (V) The President: Did you go to Italy? I've had a very good (V) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I went to Italy and France and had a good" time. ," Where were you now? (V) The President: I was in Martha's Vineyard and then New York, but I'm about to go off to New Zealand for a week, and I wanted to talk to you before I left. I've been talking to everybody about this East Timor situation and the rumor mill is rife that Habibie might be deposed or they're sending some military leader out there who says he will never give East Timor up. I believe we all need to put as much pressure as possible on Indonesia to accept a force and then figure out who'll make it up. The Aussies are ready to go, they want to send 2,000 or 3,000 people cmrn DEU'fIAL Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke Reason: 1.5 (d) Declassify On:! 2 CONFIDENTIAL there; they don't think it will (take very many people. And, if the UN approved it, the Chinese might even send some people. But I think it would be a very embarrassing comparison to Kosovo if Indonesia runs all the Timorese out of the country or if they reverse it and we don't do anything. We've got to do something, it seems to me, so anything you can do to put the heat on Indonesia would be helpful. Je1 Prime Minister Blair: I agree. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Guterres is going to table a motion even if Indonesia won't support it. He's got to. He said there was a lO-km human chain demonstrating against him. -tet Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Absolutely right. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. JCr I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O.13526, section l.4(b)(d)1 The President: would Prime Minister Blair: CONTIDEN'fIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONFIDENTIAL 3 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Yes. I think -- I don't think the Chinese wili allow the resolution to go through if they don't accept it, because of this whole sovereignty thing. tef I~_p_r_i_m_e__M_i_n_l_.s__t_e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__: __I___________________________________~ The Bresident: No. Prime Minister Blair: .J.e-rI haven't, either. ~ The President: The reason I haven't -- there's a rumor he's being deposed now -- the reason I haven't called is, every time I put pressure on him, he gets unmerciful grief there that he's toad in to the United states. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: L -_______________________________- -~----- The President: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) wan e 0 say a word a out the Balkans. I got your letter and I understand the pressure you're under to cut deployment in order to increase readiness and retention, but I hope you can maintain your position as a lead nation in both Bosnia and Kosovo, because our partnership there has been a bedrock of success and the Russians, I believe, are working out better than we'd hoped. I think the Kosovo thing is settling down, if we can just hang on. Your letter indicated you're talking to allies about making contributions to backfill your forces. I don't know how that's going, but I hope we can maintain a good level of cooperation and ability with whoever goes in there. ~ LP_r_i_ID_e__M_l_'n_l_._s_t_e_r__B_l_a_i_r_:_/ _________________________________________ CONFIDEWl'IAL ~j) IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 CONFIDEH'fIAL 4 .The President: Me, too. I think we shouldn't get too soft on these sanctions against Serbia. I think we ought to tighten the sanctions on Milosevic and his crowd. I hope you'll get the other ~ (C) The President: setback? 18 Have you talked to Schroeder since his Prime Minister Blair: The President: Prime Minister Blair: weeks. ¢ ele~tion No. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I'm due to see him in the next couple of The President: I'll try to call him before I leave for Asia. There's not much I can do, but I can encourage him. (~ Prime Minister Blair: cmiFIDENTIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 5 CONFIDEN':PIAL How are we doing on Northern Ireland? Prime Minister Blair: The President: George is doing fine. The Catholic? Prime Minister Blair: ~ Yes. The President: It was unanimous, wasn't it? Americans? )..e1 Including the two Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Don't you think it will just get worse if we don't resolve the politics of it? ..+-e-r CONFIDENTIAL ;. 6 CONFIDEWfL"do IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ Prime Minister Blair: The President: You don't think there's any chance the Mitchell talks will produce a breakthrough? Jef Prime Minister Blair: I think there's some chance, but it's pretty slim at the moment. The President: when. Jct I'm ready any time. You just have to tell me Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ CONFIDBN''fL'lL 7 The President: So, the main thing you, want me to do now is say something nice about the Patten report? )X1 Prime Minister Blair: /kj For us, now, that is the critical thing. The President: I'll be down in New Zealand, but there's a hellof a lot going on in the world at the moment, and we can always talk. I just wanted you to know I'll be out of pocket for the next week or 10 days. Jet Prime Minister Blair: When am I going to see you? doing the Third Way thing in Florence? (U) The President: Absolutely. Prime Minister Blair: Are you (U) They're all very excited. (U) The President: You shouldn't be the only guy speaking English who gets to go to Italy. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Italian. (U) The President: You did? E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! Pr~me M~n~s er Blair: The President: When I was in Italy I learned a little (U) ,-_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, Enough to get by. / Is he one of ours? Prime Minister Blair: ~ Yes, he's one of ours. The President: Gosh, I thought I had had him in here. check it out. .J&r Let me Prime Minister Blair:! l I The President: GG~TFI DENT 1hL Got it. When are his elections? I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I j.G-f 8 GOHFIDEHI'IAb Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Okay, I'll do it. Thank you. Prime Minister Blair: Zealand. (U) Okay, Bill. The President: Goodbye. Okay. Have a good time in New (U) End of Conversation CONFI DEN'FIAL Je1 SECREr THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INCHON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Robert Ford, Joel Ehrendreich, Elizabeth Rogers, Roger Merletti and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: October 13, 1999, 10:38 - 11:29 a.m. Oval Office Tony, how are you? Prime Minister Blair: I'm fine. (U) (U) The President: I haven't talked to you in a while and I wanted to check in on a few things. (U) Prime Minister Blair: How are you doing? (U) The President: I'm great. I've been fighting reactionaries in Congress, we're winning with the people. I thought your speech to your party group was great. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Thanks. We've got an interesting situation here at the moment because the conservatives have really moved off to a very far right position. (U) The President: That's what our guys are doing here. One reason Bush is doing so well is because he criticized one thing on the right. He is making people think he is saving them from the right. But, it's a fraud because he is really for them on everything else. I have to figure out how to expose the fraud that Bush is the new Clinton, establishing a new Republican party like I made a new Democratic party. It's helping Bush but it is killing AI. They asked me what I thought, and I said it SECRE'f Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke Reason: 1.5(c,~d) ~~.' _~~ ___,__ ~~_~-~, Declassify On:! 10/~9~J~'<'''~' ---c~; 0';, .' ~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY . i' . 'p! ~~~:.;.__ .__ .;.:---._..~ ..:.,..c..:,_",~~~_~~.~ ~ :.. -<-:J._----'-, '. ,'-' -:-;~" ,." SEeRE'£' 2 was terrible how the right wing was treating him. After all, he was for them, and his lobbyists organized them to kill our patients' bill ·of rights. He was for school vouchers and for the NRAtrying to kill our handgun measures. Why were they being so mean to him? I thought it was terrible how mean they were being, but they wouldn't give what I said that much press -- it wasn't what they wanted to say. That is what we've got to do. Al has to position himself between Bush and Bradley. Now it's very interesting. We are at a point where the perceptioos of major players are at variance with their positions. It's a terrible thing and there'~ a limit to how much I can do because, in our political culture, I can say what I think but it will hurt if it appears I'm trying to control the outcome of another election. I've got to be careful not to tell people how to vote. (U) Prime Minister Blair: it? (U) Yes. Policy is the way to do it, isn't The President: Yes, you're right, it is . . What I am doing -the results speak for themselves. The question is not whether we are going to change, but how we change -- a u-turn or hold on to what we're doing. Here are the new ideas for the 21 st century. That is the argument I am making, and the argument Gore has to make. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I think he's got to really. If it comes down to general positioning, it will get more difficult. (U) The President: The people still don't know what a VP does in our country. It's not an accident we've elected only two in our history. But it's still the best way to become president -someone dies or something happens in the interim. The Vice President has become more important in modern American history. That's how Nixon got to come back as President. Nixon barely lost, and Bush won when Dukakis collapsed. It's not such a bad thing to be a Vice President now. It's not the handicap it once was, but you have to capitalize on it. So far we haven't been able to capitalize on it even though our ratings are slightly higher than Eisenhower's and Reagan's were at this point. He ought to be able to do that, I think he is getting it sorted out now. (U) Prime Minister Blair: (U) SECRET It's really about definition, I think. 3 The President: It always is, isn't it? I have half a dozen things I'd like to discuss. How did your government change play Prime Minister The President: I really like him. He is such a bright man. +&l- Prime Minister Blair: -The President: I saw him recently. Prime Minister Blair: ~ He told me that. / I The President: It was probably time for Mo to get out. ;e1 ~_p_r_i_m_e M_~_'n __ __i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a__i_r_:____________________________________________ ~~ The President: She served you well and worked very hard. She made people laugh when she pissed them off, and that's a great thing. ).e} Prime Minister Blair: The President: If you want me to do anything, let me know. know that Ian Paisley got mad at what I said last week, but I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I ~ I I'll try '-n-o-t:---;-t-=-o--=o"";f::-f::-e""':r::--=-a-=n-=-ym=-o-=r-:e=-u":"n=-h;--::-e'l-=p""f;:'u::-il;--a-:n-a-l'o-:--:-g"i-e-=s-:.---'I'i"-:w:-::-:"r':-o-':t-=e--:It::-:o:---lh im t ha t I will try to stay out of the analysis business. ~) Prime Minister Blair: / I aECRET J / IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 :>ECRET 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I've always found that if someone's offended by a remark, it is better to apologize immediately because people who agree with what you said won't hold it against you. Anyway,. ring the bell if you want me to do anything. They just have to finally decide whether to cut a deal ·or not. I think in the end they have to decide. It has dragged on so long I don't expect either side to eat the whole thing. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. / The President: One thing Gerry said, I've never talked to you about it, Gerry told me they trusted de Chastelain and would stay on it if he promulgated a schedule. ~ ] Prime Minister Blair: The President: You could even have de Chastelain promulgate a schedule for decommissioning starting on a date that was ten days after they got in the executive. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. Pr ime Minister Blair: ~ I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: What if de Chastelain promulgated a schedule for decommissioning and then you said to Trimble that he'd better :>ECRE'I' ,., 5 let Sinn Fein in the government before then so he doesn't give them an excuse for slipping that date. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. ~ The President: And then Trimble lets them in and says if they sli , we'll walk out. What about that? ~) E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: / The President: What about Adams? -tet . Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. Prime Minister Blair: ~ I \ The President: Anyway, that is best idea I've got. Prime Minister Blair: ~ LI_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ~ The President: It sort of takes it away from them. If you could let de Chastelain offer the schedule, they could say something nice about how they respect de Chastelain. But they've got to be in the government to fulfill this obligation, then if this date slips then Trimble says I'm walking. And then it is allan them. They both have what they asked for, they are in the executive and then have this date staring them in the face -- only ten days away. It seems that would help Trimble with his constituents if he has a deal in advance and not three months away. Everybody's used to wandering around their offices and getting to know each other and trying not to look like the biggest asshole at the garden party. This has to happen fairly quickly. (.G+Prime Minister Blair: ] \====~----------------------~ SECRET IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 6 SECRE'P The President: Why don't we call Mitchell and run it by him if ou think it ml ht have some merit. ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: I I ] - The President: That way Adams doesn't have to say anything to get into the government but they are screwed immediately and quickly if they don't deliver. Let me run it by Mitchell. ~ Prime Minister Blair:~ \ The President: Okay. There a couple of other things I'd like to run through. First, thank you and Jacques and Gerhard for running that piece on CTBT in the New York Times. Here's the problem. My Senate agreed to a truncated schedule. Half of the Republicans are against this on its merit. For the others it's just politics. They are out to screw me because they don't want to help me and don't want to help AI. But a bunch are genuine isolationists. They just say 'piss on our allies n and "to hell with what they thinki screw anybody who screws with us. n It's just sick what a world we are living in here. But I'm trying to work a deal so this is not voted down. I'm trying to work on a schedule. If they start hearings, we will get them involved in the process. Even if they don't ratify while I am president, it'll be obvious to the world that they are strengthening the treaty. They will if they are working on safeguards. But it is just silly intellectually, just awful what they are doing. And they are hurting themselves. They are giving us a good issue in the elections. It is terrible what they have done. But your piece was very helpful and I wanted to thank you for it. The problem is that under the-rules of the Senate they are in a position where a small majority can prevent the vote from being delayed now. We may get it put off by one vote. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Right. ~ Whatever happens, we'll bang them pretty good. (C) Prime Minister Blair: L -__________________I IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l The President: Thank you. I don't think this is the end of American leadership on arms control, just parliamentary SECRET 7 maneuvers. out there. It's just a rightwing group and they are just way ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d) The President: It's stupid. They won't pay UN dues and they don't want an aid budget. They want a big military that never does anything. They spend more money on defense than I do, but don't want them to do anything, and I'm the most pro-defense Democrat President that we've had; They want a bunch of bombs and missile.s and a defense system, and then they just cut ·everybody's taxes. They want to put rich people behind gates so the starving can't get at them. They basically want an upscale Brazil for America. It is awful, but I think we can beat them back. I want to say a word about Florence, and then I've got two other things. I'm glad we let Cardoso come, but can you explain to me, in a European context, why we didn't invite Wim Kok or Guterres from Portugal? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: The other guy I thought should have been invited, who has been a wonderful ally to all of us is Chretien. r=~~~~~~~~I~E~.O~.=1=3=52=6~,~se=ct=io=n=1=.4=(d~)~I~~~~=-~~~~~I Prime Minister Blair: ~ I agree. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I'm afraid it will undercut the whole idea of a global movement. I will not be in office to work with these people more than another 15 months, but you and Chretien may be around another five ears. The other guy in Latin America is Zedillo, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I But if I were doing it and I were European, I would want Guterres and Kok and I don't know about Austria, I don't know him. Chretien, every time we need him, he shows up and raises the flag. ~ al!:CRgT 8 SECRET' IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Absolutely. I am in complete agreement. Are you going to sing the Marseillaise? Prime Minister Blair: ~ Yes. The President: I do too. And it is also a way for Europe to get more influence over him in a positive way. )Zl ~ Prime Minister Blair: '-------~~ The President: Is there anything we can do to help him? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Maybe one thing that could come out of Italy is some sort of statement that will help him. ~ ) Prime Minister Blair: \ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)l The President: The thing that bot~ers me is that he has the worst of both worlds. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I At least for all the horrible SECRE'f 9 bloodshed in '94 we had policies in place that turned the country around by '96, congressional gains in '96 and '98, and we rna be able 't get Congress back in 2000. -+erE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: ] The President: Yeah. I'll take some guidance from you, and I will talk to him about it. I think he's trying to do the right thing but he's been a little foggy about it. jQ1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree. I will do what I can. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Ye·s. Okay, we need to think about that. Let me mention a couple of other things. The WTO ministerial will be held in Seattle in Washington State in December and preparations are in full swing. I think this is a major opportunity for the third way agenda to put a human face on the global economy. We have to come out for more open trade and the legitimate interests of labor and environment. I've been to Geneva twice to talk about this and the child labor convention. We think it would be a very good thing to have a WTO working group on trade and strategy analysis, not on negotiations. We have been in touch with your people, and I hope we can work together on this. A lot of people are afraid to discuss the two things in the same breath. But the whole pitch here has to be we can't turn our backs on integrating the global economy. But I want to do it in a way that takes everybody along. ~ 10 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Prime Minister Blair: I ) ~--------------~ The President: Yes, it is. We're going to have every NGO and labor union demonstrating against us and we have to have something that answers what they are saying. I see rising protectionism in this country. In the last two years, we took on a huge amount of the shortfall of the Asian economy by increasing imports and running a trade deficit which is unusual in conventional terms, but the world has changed quite a lot. For example, in '97 and '98 we bought ten times more steel from . Japan; China, and Russia than Europe did. Protectionism is rising among Republicans and Democrats, and I see it manifesting itself in other countries. We have to find a way to turn back the tide of it. We have to try to find mechanisms where we can discuss all these things together. Europe is in better shape on this than we are. I'm not trying to impose standards on other countries, but there's got to be a way to work our way through this. -+e-r Prime Minister Blair: ~_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _--J~ The President: I wish you would. We have to see how this plays out against the media story in America to see if there is more coverage given to the people demonstrating than to the fact that we are going to meet. Two others issues I would like raise. President Frei of Chile raised Pinochet with me in New Zealand. He said Pinochet's presence in London is a big problem for the Chilean government. He thought they had worked out a solution to get rid of him by putting him in the Senate. They are very concerned now. Our position has got to be that this is a legal matter and whatever you do, we will be in agreement. But Chile has twice the per capita income of any other in Latin America, they have had this immense success, and they thought they had put this nightmare behind them. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: SECRBT I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 £ECRE'f 11 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: The real thing we need to do is get more victims to say ~send him home and let us handle it here. n I got it . .Jet Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I won't say this to anybody. I'm also aware what a problem this is for you. My take on where they are is they thought they had done their version of Mandela's Truth Commission -- put it in a box and store it there, not live forever. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. ~ The President: A final point -- Iraq. I am afraid we're in a different place in the Security Council. We worked all these years on negotiations and before that, and I hope we don't get divided here. The language your people worked out with the French crosses a red line because it suspends sanctions on Saddam Hussein before disarmament. When I took office, the Bush position was, I thought, unfair. We wouldn't ever lift sanctions until Saddam Hussein complied with his disarmament obligations and with obligations on all other UN resolutions, human rights and all that. Now I am prepared to say that if he meets his disarmament obligations and puts a system in place where he's complying, I would be prepared to suspend sanctions and liberalize the oil-for-food program -- especially with the price of oil going up, we should be better off. But I think if we say to this guy, ~If you start to comply, we will lift sanctions,n he will quickly reestablish the weapons of mass destruction program, and it will become known in two years that he has. It may not happen "rhile I'm in office, 1 you. It could become a real ni htmare for I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I I understand where the French are and we are prepared to move from our former position aspecially on oil-for-food SECRE'f gECREP things. 12 I know everyone is getting sanctions fatigue, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Would it end the suspension because any country could vote to veto continuing it? ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 SECRET SECRET I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 13 The President: Our guys here in Congress, even the Democrats, are attacking me because I haven't. done enough to get rid of him. I think they will eat me alive if I agree to lift sanctions while he has his weapons program going on. f6+ Prime Minister Blair: The President: But it looks like the UN has finally given in to him if you have no sanctions without disarmament. I LP_r__i_m_e__M_i_n_l_'s_t__e_r__B_l_a_l_'r__: __________________________________________ ~/:). The President: Have you worked out the differences between "certain" and "all"? ye;) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: I don't know, I am very skeptical. at the specifics. ~ SECRE'f I will look SECRET 14 Prime Minister Blair: Look Bill. ! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: ! E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)! The President: There may be a solution here in the details, but I am genuinely quite skeptical. I've been dealing with this guy for a long time. )J21 Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)\ The President: We've been criticized for not bein condemning of the coup. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) £ECRE'f'- more oS EeRE'!' 15 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Two strong people can do the sensible thing. I think our objective ought to be to get them to do the sensible' thing. J&r Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: Okay. Prime Minister Blair: We will stay in touch. (U) Bill, when will we see you then? (U) The President: I will see you in Italy and probably at the OSCE thing in Turkey. (U) Prime Minister Blair: talk with you. (U) Yeah. It will be good to have a proper The President: Yeah. You are in a position, as you get more influence in Europe, I believe we've got a shot now, because of the two earthquakes, to resolve the conflict between Greece and Turkey. To accept Turkey into the EU will lock Turkey into the West for the next fifty years and that would help solve some problems if east of there goes sour. Two areas that I have wanted to make progress on -- the Aegean and India/Pakistan. We need to talk again, maybe before the OSCE, and I will tell you what I have been doing on it. But I think we've got a shot in the Aegean now. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I 16 SECRE'P I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The president: The Turks and Greeks are getting along better. The earthquakes made them see. each other as human beings again. The problem is Cyprus. The Greeks think they were uprooted and can't go to visit their relatives' graves. It's got to be a strictly cold-blooded deal. We've done our part with military coope~atio~. We've got to get something that leads them on the -path to Europe. Otherwise, they'll never do it because they think they need to ~get alonif' like the Irish. tGt Prime Minister Blair: The President: That is what we need. Prime Minister Blair: The president: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I Okay Bill. ~ (U) I will see you soon and thank you. Prime Minister Blair: Goodbye. (U) End of Conversation SECRET (U) tONFI DEt.'!' IM THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: PARTICIPANTS: Telcon with British Prime Minister Tony Blair (U) The President Prime Minister Blair ..s '~" ~ '"...l< '" ~ ~ < Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Joel Ehrendreich, Robert Ford, Hoyt Yee and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: I ~~ ~~ ""< Ou November 26, 1999, 11:55 a.m.-12:02 p.m. EST ~5 Penn National Golf Course, Maryland ; ~ 0< :t...l "'U~ The President: Can you hear me? I am celebrating Thanksgiving with my entire family. The wind is blowing and the rain is going like crazy. I might as well be in England. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Where are you? (U) The President: I am up at Camp David. I am out playing golf and it is raining like hell, and the wind is blowing. (U) ;;;,>-c, <",::2 ,,;~ ",;;;'''' Quz z"'O ;;;''''- Q>-'" ",uu -z'" :::",": ~~~ <,,~ ...l",'""' u~ . "'zq Q-", Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I The President: Can I help in any way? ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I conFIDEN'fIAL Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On:; 2 CONFIDENTIAL do that and put a statement out Prime Minister Blair: The President: Sounds to me like you got some pretty good language with Chirac on the European Security issue. Jef Prime Minister Blair: The President: I just don't want to give the isolationists here any encouragement. ~ Prime Hinister Blair: The President: am behind you. I appreciate that. I agree. You are doing the right thing, and I .(e) Prime Minister Blair: I think it might be helpful, if at some stage, I came over and saw some of the people on the Hill and made a speech. .(-e) The President: I agree with that. Prime Minister Blair: j£l [Gap)! The President: Let me ask you one other thing. I hear Chirac wouldn't go along with the position you wanted to take on Cyprus. {.e1 Prime Minister Blair: -tetcmiFI DEN'!' lAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 3 CWNFI DEH'I'IAL The President: No, I just heard something and it may not be right. The main thing, I know what Simitis wants you to say. But it would be good if it didn't leak until as close to the loth as possible. That would give us a week to get these talks, (with Denktash)-, in New York, and I don't want to give him any excuse to leave. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: [GAP] Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE.O. 13526, section I.4(b)(d)1 IE.O. 13526, section I.4(b)(d)1 That's good news. (I) Prime Minister Blair: Incidentally, I thought you did brilliantly in Florence. (U) The President: Oh, thanks. Prime Minister Blair: (U) You made a big impression on Jospin. je1 The President: I tried to make him see that you and I were not threatening everything he believes in. ye7 Prime Minister Blair: It would be really good to get together in the next few months. I have so much that I would like to go through with you. -+e-r The President: than February? When would be good? Is January better for you ~ Prime Minister Blair: We will see what we can arrange. If it's not a summit in Bermuda, we can try something else. --t€+The President: I will look for something on the calendar. We will do a statement on devolution and will clear it with you in advance. ..+eY Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay Bill, all the best. Okay, bye. (U) -- End of Conversation COHFIDEHTIAL (U) ~ COHF'IDEH'fIAL (~ I, ~ 0 \~< THE WHITE HOUSE ,-----------------------------------------------~~ DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ~ I> ~) I S,»--O,/ . 'f,-/.LN3 0 \ ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 78 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair . NOTE TAKERS: Michael Manning,' Frank Jarosinski, Miguel Aguilo, and Jim Smith DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: December 16, 1999, 5:01 - 5:11 p.m. EST Oval Office Tony, how are you? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) (U) How are you getting on? (U) I'm fine. \ I Prodi will be ';':h-:e-:r::-e--:t;:-o::-m:-:-o-::r-:-r-:o-:-w:--a-:n::-d:;--:;=I-:-w:-:;i'l""l~s:::p::-e::-n:::-:;d-=s-=o-=m-:e~t:::l;-:'m::-e::--w""""'i""t-;:h""'h:-:l~'m---1. I t h ink the r e will be some investments needed, and we'll carry a lot of it, but we may need EU help~1~------~--~--~~-------:-~--71 If things. get resolved, it might come to a head in a couple of months. jQ1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: jQ1 That would be unbelievable, wouldn't it? Prime Minister Blair: he? (U) The president: That would be marvelous. Yes. When is Prodi getting there? j£i Tomorrow, is (U) Prime Minister Blair: So they are going to come back in early January, and you think you can pull it together then? ~ The President: Yes, I do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: That would be fantastic. If you can put this and Northern Ireland together, it would be pretty good. yz( CONFIDEN"fIAL Reason: 1.5d Declassify on IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 2 The President: Yes. That would be a good deal. Trimble is coming in the next few days and I will see him. And we are doing what we can with Sinn Fein on the issue of IRA guns. -ter Prime Minister Blair: The President: That's good. The only other thing I wanted to mention is that I think it is important to bring this Iraq resolutioh-to a vote tomorrow. I know the French are going to abstain, but we've got to get something moving -- this thing is stuck on idle. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: You _mean with Iraq? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. I don't know. (JZ') Je1 (U) Prime Minister Blair: We played around with this for so long, we should go for it. ~ The President: next. .J..C+ I think it will give us an idea of where to go Prime Minister Blair: If we let it go much longer, it will get complicated for everybody,1 I The President: I agree. ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 3 Prime Minister Blair: It is sad for the people in Iraq. everything all right with you apart from this? ~ So is The President: Yes. 11m doing fine and I am delighted things are going well. We have to just keep working .at it -- chippin~ !':I.t.f::::l U Lf?1:: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 Prime Minister Blair: I ) ~------The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) preparing to be a father again? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: selves. ...(-e} It was so unexpected. Yes, they have their good selves and their bad Prime Minister Blair: The President: Are you I Yes, we have to keep working at it. Prime Minister Blair: Are you getting any golf in? The President: No, but I'll play soon. out of the way first. (V) ~ (U) I have to get this work I am really thrilled about the Helsinki decisions. The Turkey-EU thing is a big move and it will be a big help. It will bring resolution to other issues. The ESDI decision was good, too. -f€+Prime Minister Blair: I ~ ~------------~/ I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 The President: )k1 He's really good. ~p_r_l_'m __ e __ M_i_n_i_s_t_e__ r __B_l_a_i_r__ : ________________ The President: Yep, ~ ~ __________________ I am quite worried about it, too. Prime Minister Blair: ]e1 I L ____________________________________________ ~ The President: The in-crowd is making a lot of votes on Chechnya. Maybe it will change when people start seeing a lot of body bags, but as long as they keep getting the votes, they'll keep'doing'it . ..J...e-r Prime Minister Blair: The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: Larry Summers came through here the other day. I had a good chat with him. Jef The President: He's a good man. Prime Minister Blair: rest of it. (C) The President: keJ We talked about the IMF job and all the We've got to get somebody good. Prime Minister Blair: Really good. ~ ~ The President: You take care of yourself. I will keep you posted on the Middle East stuff. It will take a little money. kef Prime Minister Blair: I I The President: Not yet. we'll see. .\Zl Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks. I will say something to Prodi, then IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1 All the best to you Bill. Bye. (U) -- End of Conversation (U) co'iH'IDEN'FIAL L «) I THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of the United Kingdom (u) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Michael Manning, Rob Williams, Roger Merletti,James Smith, Dick Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: January 11, 2000, 4:22 to 4:45 p.m. EST Air Force One Hello? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, B~ll. Hey, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) (U) .How are you? Same to you. Happy New Year. a'm fine. (U) You getting ready for fatherhood? Prime Minister Blair: Well, I'm psyched up. (U) (U) How are you doing? (U) '-------' The President: I'm doing great. We're moving into our new home and staying busy. I've just been out to the Grand Canyon, protecting another million acres of land, and Al's doing better. So I'm feeling pretty good about things right now. (U) Prime Minister Blair: He seems to be picking up. That's IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Yes, I'm going to see him tomorrow. Prime Minister Blair: The President: -- a difficult situation -- Hello, Tony? (U) (U) I can't hear a word you're saying. (U) Classified by: Robert Bradtke Reason: 1.5 (d) Declassify on,!: "-----" !{:. _: .•.I~~~~~:RARYPH6T6COPY .t ot;'-i"'-"-'~-~"- '<=?~::-~::':~~'~:-:~¥-'~~'-,.;-~~>:. ,:~:~,-,: .~:_ :.-,.~~.~.".i _..,-: . .,~;-:'''''' ",' I 2 CONFIDEN'f'IAL Prime Minister Blair: The President: Is this any better? I can hear you fine, now. Prime Minister Blair: Alright. (U) (U) Good. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: For one thing, he will. We've worked very hard this, and I want them to give de Chastelain something credible wi h. d n't hink the hav re'e ted it out of hand, E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) It's very helpful de Chastelain and Mandelson have minimized the sense of a ·deadline," certainly publicly, because I think we need to frame the issue for January not as meeting Trimble's deadline, but as the need for concrete steps for de Chastelain to say the IRA is on the way to meeting the timetable in the Good Friday agreement. I know that Adams is trying to keep everybody together, but one of the possibilities might be if they could be seen as responding to you, rather than a unionist deadline. If something could be done on the Patten report or something -- I want to make the argument he's doing this in response to that, in addition to the Good Friday Accord. .(.e1 Prime Minister Blair: Yes. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I COWHDiWTIU · 3 CONFIDSN1'IAL I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)J The President: giving? .-tel What is their reasoning? What reason are they Prime Minister Blair: / J The President: Yes. (U) Prime Minister Blair: CONE IDENTIAL IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 4 13.0. 13526, section The President: I agree with that. Let me work it and call you when I finish with him. Prime Minister Blair: Sorry to call and land this on you. 99f! The President: No, no. It?s a big deal. I got wind of what they?re saying and I?m livid. 467 A Prime Minister BlairL/? The President: Yes, I got it. I will call you after I talk to him. How did your meeting with the Iranian Foreign Minister go? Prime Minister Blair: The President:' Hello? I lost you again. (U) Prime Minister Blair:/F 12.0. 13526, section The President: Yeah, I agree with that. We have a tough week here. (U) 5 "OMFIfJE1··~.'....f':"""~;".""~':";' --;::-'- ..~.~/,~....~.'-'.' SECRE'f DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) 0777 ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 80 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of the United Kingdom (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski, James Smith, Roger Merletti and Dick Norland DATE, TIME AND. PLACE: The President: January 31, 2000, 2:29-2:50 p.m. EST The Residence Hello. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hello, Bill. Hello, Tony. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: I am really sorry to trouble you, but I thought I should bring you up to date on the Irish front. (U) The President: It's okay. (U) Prime Minister Blair: lE.o. 13526, section 3ECRET Classified by: Reason: 1.5d Declassify on tA(b)(d) 2 $~CRE~ The President: What do you think is really going on in the IRA? J.81 Prime Minister Blair: IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) ~ ....~ o ......= '"'"'"' ~ ...Q &l ..., .... o The President: Everyone else has made compromises ~I __~__~____~~__~____~__~~~~I said. I ~E~v7.e~r~yb~o~dr,y~e~I~s~e~rld'lrldr7w~h~a~t~t~h~e,ry . Everybody else already delivered first. ~ Prime Minister Blair: ~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Okay. So you want me to call Gerry and take one more whack at him? (jf) Prime Minister Blair: I think it's a IE.o. 13526, section ood idea. 1.4(b)(d) The President: So this statement they were willing to make about the IRA, they can't even make that public? ~ SECRET 3ECRE'l' , 3 Prime Minister Blair: lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Do you know what I mean? The President: language. (..81 Yes, I agree with you. This is very conditional Prime Minister Blair: lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: No, no, I think the IRA may not care if America withdraws its support, but I think Sinn Fein will be in a lot worse condition if its friends in Congress lay it all on them. He may not be able to do anything about it, ma be he even wants it in some manner. He can't say this, I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: That is the thing. lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) SECRE'l' 3ECRET 4 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I I agree. I'll call Adams and do the best I can. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The president: I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) Prime Minister Blair: SECRET IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I SECRE'l' 5 I E.O: 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) '11---_ _ _ _ _---' The President: Yes. Even that is silly because they could always get more if they had any grounds. The radical Irish could get more. J.£-Y Prime Minister Blair: The President: --t3"I That is what I think. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Of course they could tomorrow. I They are being pig-headed. Yes. -r-n- NO, no. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Right, Bill. (U) I'll see what I can do. Prime Minister Blair: The President: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) (U) Many thanks. Goodbye. (U) Goodbye. (U) -- End of Conversation -- (U) 3ECRET THE WHITE HOUSE /. C3, WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Frank Jarosinski, Deana Sutliff, Miguel Aguilo, RO'ger Merletti, Don Gentile and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: Februa~y 8, 2000, 11:15 to 11:42 a.m. EST Oval Office Hello. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi Bill. Hi Tony. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) (U) (U) How are you doing? I'm all right. (U) I'm having a pretty good time. (U) Prime Minister Blair: You just presented the budget. The President: I did it yesterday. the Senate in New York. (U) Prime Minister Blair: interesting. (U) (U) Hillary just declared for Your presidential race is very The President: Yes, it is. I can't tell where it's going yet. It's got a few turns left in the road. We have got to see if Bush has anything inside him to pull himself back up and respond to McCain. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Al seems to be running pretty well. -SEO,Er Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On: - 2/9/10 _ ~. . .' :'"'~£:~--.".~- ~~;~~' ~:R1\RY _-------~ . ....... PHOTOCOPY t "<::~'t~_~~'_'~.-"'-':-"~- .,.-:;=;,_.-:j.;.::..;...•... -'~--':;_-, __ ~_J.:-',--:-~:. )£1 . SECRET The President: 2 He is doing fine. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I think the State of the Union stuff and what I have read about the budget seems very interesting indeed. Well, I'm glad you're having a good time. (U) The President: Yeah. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Well, let me tell is where you can help me a bit. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) £EC~ET ou about mine. Here ". ;":'~'-' '. 3 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: What's your reaction to the argument that they ought to be given more time since there was a such a delay in setting up the government? .kf5} SECRET ~. 4 SECRE'l' E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Of course I do. I'm just trying to think about how to keep this thing together. JZI Prime Minister Blair: The President: Let me ask you something. Do you think any argument they use is looking for a pretext for doing this and they wanted to make it clear they did not support such things and wanted to do it partly because of the terrorist incident in the north? \ I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: / E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 5 2iECR£'l' E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Well, did Adams give you any -kind of opening when you asked for an act of reconciliation? ~ Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Let me ask you, you and Bertie have agreed on ~hat you've asked Adams to do? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: to Trimble? vn Right. y() And if he does it, do you think you can sell it 3ECRE'f 6 Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Trimble is coming over here in a couple of days -- a week or 10 days, but it will be done by then. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yeah it will be done by then. need is a two-week breathing space. ~ The President: you two weeks? What we Exactly what do you think it will take to get +&t- Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: Okay. I'll get in touch with Gerry and Martin and see what we can do. I'll let you know. (S) Prime Minister Blair: I'm sorry to lay this on you. ~ The President: No, no. I think about this more than anything else, besides the screw-ups in the Middle East. Let me ask you 3ECRE'£' 7 BECRE':F something on a much more mundane issue. Yesterday, I met with some cabinet members and Rodney Slater said we put some more ideas down to resolve the airport dispute we have with British Airways, USAIR and American Airlines. Would you take another look at that and see if we can get it done? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I'm not completely familiar with that. (C) The President: I know you're up to your ears in other things but we've been dealing with this for years and it's sort of a big deal here. Rodney told me he put some more stuff down on the table. In a political season, it would be big over here to _ get this open sore resolved. If you could have somebody take a look at it. I have never seen him more agitated about anything. He is just trying to get it resolved. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Sure, I will have a look. Okay, I will get on this. ~ How is mother doing? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Fine. She's getting pretty large. you going to come oV,er incidentally? (U) Are The President: Let me tell you what we are trying to work out. You want me to come, don't you? -fC+Prime Minister Blair: proper talk with you. I'm desperate to sit down and have a -+G-l- The President: I'm trying to figure out what the best time is because we have to do this Third Way thing in Germany and there might be time to run to Russia. We're trying to resolve bilateral issues with Russia and kind of get this Chechnya thing resolved. Putin has enormous potential, I think. I think he's very smart and thoughtful. I think we can do a lot of good with him. I'm trying to figure how to do all these things and come to London because Cherie's time is coming close. I want to come when it would cause you the least problems and try to leave open the option, if you need me to, to go to Ireland. I want to come and do you the most good. (£) Prime Minister Blair: It's a good idea in any sort of circumstances. They would be delighted to see you. Well, (U) Cherie is due on May 20. I mean, anytime is good. BECKE'!' 8 SECI'tc';r The President: Obviously, I hav~ to leave you a couple of weeks on the front. If we decided to do it, afterward, how much time do you need for paternity leave? (U) Prime Minister Blair: I don't know that I would need much time, more than a ~eek, on either end of it. We'd love for you to come over and there is lots to discuss. (U) The President: Fathers get that in Britain. Prime Minister Blair: (U) I don't know if I'll do too much of it. (U) The President: I just don't want to screw it up. Prime Minister Blair: and see them. (U) (U) It would be quite nice for you to come The President: I would love to come afterwards and get to see the baby. Let me see what I can do. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Okay Bill, we will be in touch. love to see you come over. (U) The President: Okay, see you soon. Prime Minister Blair: Bye. (U) (U) End of Conversation SECRE'1' I would SF·eRET THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION Telcon with SUBJECT: B~itish Prime Minister Blair (U) The President Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Robin Rickard, Don Cheramie, Roger Merletti, Don Gentile and Dick Norland February 11, 2000, 12:38 - 12:49 p.m. EST Oval Office DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: Hello. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hey. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Bill. (U) (U) How are you doing? I'm okay. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: Bill, sorry to trouble you again but I thought I would bring you up to date with what .has happened. E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: 3ECRE'f Yes. Y0 £pCRE'l' .1 2 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: What about Trimble? Where is he on this? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: f5t- But if you haven't announced it, can't you ... Prime Minister Blair: The President: I think you ought to go to Trimble and try to work it out. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: SECRE'P Can't you go to Trimble today? ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) 3 3ECRE'f' E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: If you can get Trimble to say okay... ~ Prime Minister Blair: / The President: If we could get to him today you could have this all resolved by Monday. (.,g-) Prime Minister Blair: ~I________________________________~ The President: We can't run the risk of this thing unraveling over the weekend just because of the timing of it. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I The President: If we don't have some move by you and Trimble today or tomorrow, this thing could unravel over the weekend. How much does Trimble know about this? ~ ) Prime Minister Blair: E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: What I'm suggesting is we tell him what they said and get him to make some noise in tomorrow's papers saying, you know, there is movement here, something where he can reach out to them. Or call Adams or something. You need them to connect before they go to bed tonight. I just think that something has to be done before the papers corne out and all hell breaks loose... t&} Prime Minister Blair: 3:ECr<:EI Okay. ~ 4 ~ECRE'f ·1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: ... at least the IRA got off their backsides and did something half reasonable. u() Prime Minister Blair: \ I The President: Yes, I think to make that really work we need some sort of signal from Trimble that he believes this is all possible. .J...91 Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree, but my problem is that if he waits until next week ... k&r Prime Minister Blair: ~I______________________________~ The President: .keI I don't want this thing to get away from you . Prime Minister Blair: The President: If you could get it tonight that would be wonderful. I know it is a pain in the rear end, but I'm scared that if this thing drifts for three days ... yn Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree with that, but if Trimble can give them an excuse to do that it would be great. ~ Prime Minister Blair: / E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) SECRET 5 oSgCRgT The President: We will go to work on our side. Have someone call us to let us know what Trimble said. We need to know what we are going to say to Adams when we call him. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Okay, thanks Bill. The President: Goodbye. Fine. (U) End of Conversation SECRi;T Bye. (U) ·CONFIDENTIAL /1<6 S THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Deana sutliff, Frank Jarosinski, Sean Tarver, Don Gentile . DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: March 6, 2000, 12:56 - 1:04 p.m. EST Oval Office Hello, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hello, Bill, how are you? Hi, Tony. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: Look, Bill, I've got to do this live television thing in five minutes? (U) The President: Okay, just talk. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Let me tell you what I told Schroeder this morning. I talked to him for forty minutes this morning. The CONFIDEN'fIAL Classified by: Reason: 1.5(d) Declassify On:, Robert A. Bradtke 2 · CONFIDENTIAL I E-O. 13526, section 1.4( d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I I E-O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: This is a really important job. jQ1 The President: It is really important. It's not just political. You need to talk to him. )Q1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. He's in that frame of mind, is he? ~ (U) Prime Minister Blair: IE-O. 13526, section L4(b)(d) I The President: There are a couple of Germans who are qualified, but he can't get them to accept the job. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. (U) The President: Absolutely. I can't afford to be the skunk at the garden party. I have got to have some help. jQf conFI DEH'f' IAL rk~"'-~-ft'7'-';'::'·· ".~'-'~"-'~'-~"-;;, ;;~~~~~LIBRA~Y PHO~~CO~YJ' . ~'~""-::;''-:~_;_:_J:'':-~ -:;-o,J. .. :- -.~~_ o~_ -,_-;:...-~ ___ ,,-'-/.':,. .COHFIDEN'l'IAL 3 Prime Minister Blair: IE.G. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: He is going to call you. He is calling Kwasniewski first. I told him "this is going to look bad for you. It can't look like you and I made a deal and gagged Europe and infuriated all of the developing countries." ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.G. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Yes. (U) Prime Minister Blair: IE.G. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I Prime Minister Blair: check with you. JQ1 E.G. 13526, section 1.4(d) I will say that to him. I just wanted to The President: I E.G. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: CONTI DElif'l'IAL Go. Look, Bill, I've got to go. (U) We also need to talk about Kosovo. ket 4 -COHFIDEN'FIhL Prime Minister Blair: We need to talk about Kosovo and we need to talk about Northern Ireland as well. +er The President: Call me in the next couple of days. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay, Bill. Good Bye. Prime Minister Blair: (U) (U) Good Bye. (U) End of Conversation COHFIDE11!Il'tL ~ SECRE'l' DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) 1820 ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 84 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14,2015 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of the united Kingdom (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair (" Notetakers: Don Gentile, Joel Ehrendreich, Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski, Dick Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: March 14, 2000, 1:05-1:29 p.m. EST The Residence Hello. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill. (U) Can we talk about Kosovo a little bit? Prime Minister Blair: Yes, sure. feI ~ The President: Let me give you my thoughts. We've got violence everyday, KFOR attrition, UN operations too slow, and;:.-w.:..:..:::e'--'-"ro..:e"--_ _---. corning up on spring which is a most dangerous time. I KO. 13526, section l.4(d) I Basically, you and I gave it a lot of highlevel attention during the air campaign. NOW, you're worried about elections, I'm worried about elections and the Middle East. Somehow, we have got to get this operation on a sounder footing before Milosevic challenges us. ~) I think three things have to be done. We have the biggest stake in this because we believed in it. You'll be around after I'm gone and this will come back and bite you in the behind. First of all, we've got to make sure KFOR has enough forces to counter the threat and then we've got to make sure the UN gets funding to do the job and then get enough police there to take pressure off KFOR. KFOR is getting weaker when it should be getting stronger. We have to look at our pledged force levels and have a smooth transition when the new KFOR commander takes over. If not, I think Milosevic, who seems to be getting stronger in Serbia, will take it as a sign of weakness and then we'll be back in conflict. 3ECl3:E! Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke Reason: 1.S(d) i Declassify on; 2 I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I rn!e Ls--e-c-o-n-d~t~h~i-n-g--~i-s~t'h-a-t~-w-e~h-a-v--e~t-o--r-e-d'-o-u'b~l~e--o--u-r--e-f~f-o-r~t-s--w-l~'~t~h~the Kosovar Albanians. We sent the two best people with connections there this week to deliver that message. Then, we've got to send We're sending more police this month, from 490 to. Blair: The President: That's good. Let's talk about DNMIK. They are crippled by the funding shortage. I'm trying to do what we can to increase our contributions to improve the infrastructure, and I hope you can give some sort of concrete pledge as well. If you and I won't do it, nobody will. We can give up to $500 million if other people kick in some money. I've got Republicans in the Senate trying to pass some bill saying that we can't give more money until the Europeans do. We need some help. We have given out 100 percent of the money we promised to give but I think the ED has only given 40 percent of what was committed. Je1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: At some with this Kosovo status mine together and get a deal ind of muscle this up a bit. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. I And a lot more money. Prime Minister Blair: Yes. ~ / ' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ' glbCRE'I' IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I SECRE'f 3 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I "E.O. The President: Let me ask you. 13526, section 1.4(d) I J h' k J I I t In the trick is and the problem is that authority is too dispersed. Is there any way we can get Kofi to somehow empower them? The problem is that Kouchner works for the UN, KFOR is a UN force, and we're here not wanting to get in the way, but not wanting to I ~ I 13526, section 1.4(d) ~ s_c__ r_e_w__u_p_.__I ________________________________________________ E.O. L.. Prime Minis The President: I think the other. You know, my sense is the Stability Pact, because you're putting up the money, would be no problem there. What is Kouchner's relationship with the French? If they tell him what to do, will he do it? ~ Prime Minister Blair: I think so, yes. . IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I agree with that. We will work on it from our side and can talk about it. I just think this is so important. I think this is part of the calls you'll make next week in Lisbon. We need to have our people gaming out what we will or won't do if Milosevic sends people into the northern part of Kosovo allegedly to protect the Serbs. What are we going to do if there is a real battle in southern Serbia and what are we going to do about Montenegro if he invades them? (~ SECRET 4 Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely. Okay. I agree. The President: Everyone of them is wants to do anything, including us. have an aggressive response in these not only minimize these problems but anything out of line in Montenegro. ~ a tough problem. No one On the other hand, if we other three areas early, we also minimize him doing J..&t Prime Minister Blair: I agree. I believe that the window of opportunity is starting to close. J.Zl The President: I real 1 like this idea. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) The President: Did you have a good trip to Russia? it was very good. J€1 The press on Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I don't know. (S) Absolutel. What does he think about Chechnya? Prime Minister Blair: J,.21 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: It's a really rough situation over there and in a" lot of Central Asian countries bordering there. It was so typically Russian ham-handed. -HHPrime Minister Blair: SECREr IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 5 ,3ECRE'I' IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: We had a good joint statement on the Genome project -- thank you for that. Go see the Queen. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Okay, Bill. All the best. (U) -- End of Conversation -- SJ;:CRET See you soon~ 3ECP.£'f' THE WHITE HOUSE WASH I NGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of The United Kingdom (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Jenny McGee, Miguel Aguila, Don Gentile, Rob Hargis and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: April 19, 2000, 1:05-1:40 p.m. EDT Oval Office Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hello. (U) Hello, Wdad," how are you doing? Prime Minister Blair: I am preparing. (U) (U) The President: You know, after January I'm available for babysitting duties. (U) The President: You said you wanted to continue my work with the Third Way, and this is it: helping Blair balance work and family. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I could do with a bit of help, I tell you. Cherie is in great form but just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I tell you, just the thought and I feel as if my life's about to begin again. (U) The President: It is going to be interesting. Given the way the world is changing, it'll be a completely different childhood than' the one your others had. Anyway, it is a great thing. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Right, Bill, we'll put you down on the babysitting list now, mate. (U) The President: 3ECRE'f' Reason: 1.5(ct) Declassify on;, You've got a deal. (U) Sl!;CRl!;'f 2 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I LIF_r_l_'__ m e __M_i_n_i_s_t_e__r __B_l_a_i_r__ : ________________________________________ The President: Yes, I really want to hear about that. to see him. ~ ~~ I'm going Prime Minister Blair: The President: We have a lot to discuss. I agree with that. I think we'll get more out of this guy since he just started his term and if he thinks we're trying to help him achieve his obj ecti ves. I..e:J Prime Minister Blair: SECRE'P That's right. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I IE.O. fjECRE'f 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 3 The President: I think to get there we have to somehow demonstrate, number one, that it is only useful as a defense, even assuming it works and assuming it meets the criteria I set out. Basically it's a defense against people who can lob a few missiles at you rather than a lot. We need to show that those cooperating in the nonproliferation movement are actually benefiting, and I need to keep working on it. There's got to be a way to do that. I think there is a way to make sure all the countries that are cooperating on this do benefit. I need to keep working on it . .J.8l Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) I The President: I know. I used to have these arguments with Yeltsin all the time when we were looking at expanding NATO. I asked him once, ~Do you really believe that if we got a foothold in Poland we would bomb western Russia?" He said, ~No, I don't, but there are a lot of old ladies out in the country who do." He was dead serious. I think it's important to understand their mentality on this. They are still affected by Napoleon, Hitler, and the way the Cold War .came to end, and about the way the SECRE'l? SECRET 4 Soviet Empire collapsed. Yeltsin was much more enthusiastic about this in some ways than his progressive successors. He wound up mortally hating communism, but still believing in Mother Russia. All these guys do, and we've got to be sensitive about that. -+£+. But we can't walk away from something that can keep a lot of usalive. I want to talk to you about it in greater detail, maybe before I go to see him. We can't get this done without serious adverse implications unless both Russia and Europe believe this can be something that benefits all of us. Since it's a defense system, I'm committed to that. I think there might be some way to plug him into that. (8) I am still formulating my ideas on it, but let's talk one more time. Let's do that first before my meeting with him. I'll really read up on it. I will talk to you about it one more time before I leave. ~ Another thing I was going to say about the tax system is that they have to keep working on it. Before I became president, I was there in 1990 when Boris Yeltsin was elected president when it was still nominally the Soviet Union and then he got reelected head of the whole deal. I knew a guy who ran a McDonald's restaurant there, and we were talking about this tax problem. He said ~Look, by the time we pay our taxes -- federal, local, etc. -- our effective tax rate is 85 percent. Because it's McDonalds, I can still end up making a hell of a lot of money here. However, my nominal Russian competitor pays an effective tax rate of 5 percent. But there's almost no other kind of economic activity you can imagine, except maybe for the energy sector, that can sustain that kind of tax burden." 1% He wasn't pleading for help. I was just a governor at the time. But later, after I was President, we talked again. If they want to get a huge amount of foreign investment, they need to rationalize their tax system and treat everybody the same. Otherwise, they are never going to be competitive. That is essentially the problem with the tax system and their regulatory problems. J..e-r I think all the internal energy problems they've got have caused and cost untold billions of dollars of investment. Their whole view of energy is caught up in the notion of sovereignty, and we've had trouble cracking that nut. Al Gore couldn't move Chernomyrdin very far on that stuff, but I still think they've got just staggering potential. 1Gr The other thing I think would be helpful to do without being patronizing is to do something about their health system. SECRET 5ECREl' 5 They're the only country in the world where their life expectancy is declining because of unsanitary conditions, not because of doctors~ They still have a fairly large number of good doctors over there. It's so embarrassing that it's difficult to talk about. I'm convinced it's one of the things that really demoralizes the country. ~ E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) lair: I agree. The President: I might be completely wrong, but my gut tells me he could do wonders with his popularity if he could make some progress on the health care problem. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: I'm sure you're right. Yes, God, yes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: SECRE'f IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I SECRET IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) I 6 The President: Let me ask you this. Is there any way to link the d~comm~ssioning with the Good Friday accord in a concrete way - that doesn't stick them on the date? Are there any up-front confidence building measures they can take, short of a bonfire, which they still see~ reluctant to do? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: We did something like that in Bosnia, too. Prime Minister Blair: The President: un Exactly. «1 Are they going to do it? +&T- Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I SECRET aECRET 7 The President: Well, I'm ready to do it. Do you think that Gerry and Martin realize that after this last vote, Trimble can't =-~::i.1.L.!....lI...l...l.l.E....-LL-.l..,Lll:!.),c,don' t do something more? .+etPrime Minister Blair: The President: Absolutely. Not only that, I just can't conceive how anybodY thinks this thing could go forward without the - unionists. Gerry Adams told me in private he thought there was no way forward without Trimble. They've got to know. Je1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: It's inconceivable. The whole premise of the Good Friday Accord was consent. It's a fraud if you get rid of them. )Z1 ) Prime Minister Blair:/ L-____________________________________- - The President: What are they going to give back? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: 3ECRE'I' Really? ;e1 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 'SECRET 8 IE.a. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: ILT_h_e_pr_e_Sl_'d_en_t_:I___ I ~========================~~ Prime Minister Blair: I The President: You can't make that dog hunt. Prime- Minister Blair: JQ1 +G+- It isn't realistic. The President: I think you're onto some good ideas. We'll keep talking to them. We have our channels open and when you want me to do something, I will. I ~~______~__~____~__~~~~____~__~~__~~~~~Ithe same thing may be happening in Northern Ireland. It might not happen again, there is so much prosperity, but it's one hell of a gamble to take over basically, what are you going to do with a few arms? You're not asking them to give them all up right now and they can always replace what they lose. They can always go back. It's so bizarre. Jj::1' 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) IE.a. Prime Minister Blair: It is. ~ The President: I know you offered to meet with the IRA and they said no. My only other suggestion is whether you or someone on your behalf could open a channel of communication with others in Sinn Fein/IRA besides. In a way, at some point, it gets hard for the leadership to make a case, and I have the feeling that the rank and file read the newspapers and are sophisticated on one level but in the absence of personally engaging with someone who can explain what's going on out there, it's pretty tough. I know I have told you before, I think a lot of these guys can't imagine how their lives are going to be different if this thing works out. I don't know how to do it, and I don't know if I can help you, but that's the only suggestion I have. It's a pretty narrow funnel you're pouring all this in, and Gerry and Martin have a heavy load. Some may think, well, Martin is the Minister of Education and Martin has a nice life, what/s in it for us? Maybe 3ECRE'f '", "_ rE ;/J,?~.i" ~ .. - -~---'-~-'-:""\, ,\ {:,~,•.. ~~:~.N LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY j; {?,.~.;.. -""'-:':~;---. ~~\ --=',' -.~.~~ - - :.--~..:;-'" ---,,::-. -<': <".:"'- . I SECRET IE.O. 13526, section 9 1.4(b)(d) I there's nothing to this, but I think you should keep thinking about this. .+-e1 ~ I L_p_r_i_m_e__M_1_"n __i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a__i_r_:_____________________________________________ The President: If I had your blessing, I'd be happy to do it. I don't know if they~w~OU~l~d~d~O~i~t~-=-==i=f==t=h~e~y~w~o~U=l=d=-=t=a=l~k~t=o~a=n~__~ American either. I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I ere 1S a uge gap, you . Prime Minister Blair: I j The President: Give some thought to it. I'll have our people talk to your people about how to establish some sort of dialog through a British or American contact and talk these things through and give some thought to what this will be like -- what are they going to do with their lives, how will it be different? I may be overstating this, but it strikes me that if we just could get them to think about how their lives would be different if this worked out. I now believe Gerry and Martin want this to work. But, if they brought it to a vote and jammed the vote and caused half of them to bolt to some other faction -- we don't want that. It's worth some leakage, but not much. It's easy for me to say this, because I don't have to deal with the aftermath of the bombs, but you would be right back in the soup. -8?r Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes. J£f Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 10 8ECRE1' !E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) ! The President: You know how badly I want this to work. I really think it's important. You have a good economy and good social reform. And, if you could get a breakthrough here, I think you would secure your place and your party's place for a long time to come. You could help New Labor in ways we can't even evaluate. I just want to do whatever I can for you before I have to leave here. ~ Prime Minister Blair: When are we going to see you? y1 The P~esident: I'll see you for sure in Berlin. 1'd like to come to the UK and to Ireland before I go, but I want to be flexible on timing. I want to come see you when I can do the mos t good. JZI /J Prime Minister Blair:! L-__________________- - - - - - The President: I've got a lot of things to talk to you about. The main thing I don't want to do is something harmful to the peace process, and it's not too good for me to look like I'm taking a sentimental journey. I want to come and do something . .....(..Gt"" Prime Minister Blair: I !E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) ! The President: God if you could do that, that'd be great. Let me know when you want us to weigh in the next couple of weeks. y( Prime Minister Blair: How is Hillary? (U) The President: She's doing well. I think she's going to win! She is starting to sound like a real politician. She's always been a good speaker, but now she's got to where she can get up and give a real political speech and sound like a politician. I'm beginning to sound like a meandering old man. (U) Prime Minister Blair: well, too? ~ Not quite. And Al? He's doing pretty The President: God, yes. He's doing much better. I expect him to win. We have a big problem here. The cultural aversion of white, married, Protestants to voting Democratic is a real 3gCRE'P SECRET 11 problem -- and one we have to overcome. Bush is a skilled politician, but he is not ready to be president, maybe not ever, certainly not now. But they want it real bad and they've got lots of money and lots of media access and they are not freshly discredited. And in this level of economic performance some tend to believe it's automatic and nobody's going to screw it up, a lot of people expect it -- think it is automatic. It is going to take a lot of discipline -- but I think Al will win. God knows I'm doing everything I can to get it done without being counter roductive. )R1 . E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d, ! Prime Minister Blair: I I ~ The President: Whew. Well, yes. We're making a little progress on the Africa trade bill. (gap) I may run over to Nigeria in a few months. (,e1 Prime Minister Blair: / I The President: But better gay than sad. ~ Prime Minister Blair: \ The President: But I think we've given a lot of evidence. ~ Prime Minister Blair: \L---=~====~-------------r~~~~~ E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d) The President: If you are, you've;got a hell of a cover-up! are doing the best you can do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay, Bill. Thank you, man. Prime Minister Blair: Bye. (U) (U) All the best. (U) -- End of Conversation -- 8CCRC'P You DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE SECRET INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 86 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair (U) Notetakers: Joel Ehrendreich, Jenny McGee, Miguel Aguilo, and Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE.: May 4, 2000, 6:26-6:34 p.m. EDT Columbus, Ohio Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hello. Hello, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: me. Hi. (U) (U) Thanks for callin IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Sounds like what we did in Bosnia. Prime Minister Blair: .. [gap] IE.D. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I SECREi' Reason: 1.5d Declassify on: i ~ · SECRET 2 The President: I heard it all. It sounded good to me. I like this idea of third-party verification. That way the IRA keeps the nominal title to their weapons, so they didn't decommission, but they did. ~) Prime Minister Blair: Exactly. kB1 I like it. If the IRA will take it, it's a good put the government back up as soon as Prime Minister Blair: The President: How about "Formerly Royal Police Service?" s,.e1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: You don't want me to call Gerry or Martin now? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: That's good. Prime Minister Blair: f€t There we are. We're trying our best. I The President: Well, I like this very much. I always thought the only way around this conundrum was something like secure SECRET IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 3 storage with third-party verification. I think that's about the best we can do right now. It is going to come down to whether both believe it would be a crying shame to let May come and go and basical~y junk the Good Friday Accord. ~ Prime Minister Blair: IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: You'll find a way, and I'll be glad to call them. We've kept in touch with their people. You've got a really good proposal. -I don't see how you could make it better than it is. f-Q1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Anything else? Prime Minister Blair: No. (U) I will keep in close touch, if I may. ).QY The President: You can call me in the middle of the night if you want, if this thing gets hot. You know I care deeply about it. I will do what I can. ~ .Prime Minister Blair: If you don't mind, I may have to do that. ~ The President: bye. (U) Okay, I'm eagerly looking forward to it. Prime Minister Blair: Okay. (U) -- End of Conversation -- SECRET Okay, CONFIJ;lENl'f'IAL 3363 THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE ~ONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTLCIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair (U) Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski, Joel Ehrendreich, Matthew Sibley, Don Gentile, Richard Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: May 15, 2000, 5:20 - 5:34 p.m. EDT The Residence Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hey, Tony. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Sellers movie. Hello. (U) Hi, Bill. I'm great. (U) Prime Minister Blair: (U) How are you doing? (U) I'm watching the end of an old Peter Which one? (U) The President: I can't tell. I've only seen about five minutes. But Herbert Long just disappeared along with a castle. (U) Prime Minister Blair: The President: Pink Panther, I think. I think it's the second one. (U) It's funny as hell. (U) Prime Minister Blair: He was so funny, Peter Sellers. Anyway ... (U) The President: I just wanted to put you in good humor since you're dealing with Northern Ireland. (U) Prime Minister Blair: I just wanted to bring you up to date. lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CONFIDEN'fIAL Reason: 1. 5d' Declassify on CONFIDEHTlhL lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: 2 What does your legislation say right now? ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: When do you have to move on this? +G+- Prime Minister Blair: The President: Weren't they saying before -- when you and I were talking, I had a copy of the other legislation -- weren't they claiming that they ... ~ ~ Prime Minister Blair: / L - - -_ _ _ _ ----~ The President: But weren't the republicans saying if you did that, unionists would just say that all time, and, therefore, the Catholics wouldn't join? ;e1 IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CON"FIDENTIAL 3 CONFIDg~nIAL IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I ~ Prime Minister Blair: L-~_ _-------------~ The President: But the real fact is you would take it off. Jer Prime Minister Blair: The President: Let me see what I can do. I'll mull it over a bit. Let me ask you this. What do you think should be done in Sierra Leone? Your guys have done a good job there. .Jret Prime Minister Blair: The President: We're talking about it here. My take on this is that we could strengthen the UN hand if the Nigerians go in, and you and whoever can stay in the coastal areas and the city, but you don't want to be subjected to being picked off in those jungles by those crazy people. They've got all these young kids they've brutalized, hopped up on drugs. I think if we can defeat that kind of thing, it would be a good thing to do. ~ Prime Minister Blair: CONFIDEH1'IAL IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CONFIDENTIAL lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) The President: 4 I Yes. jQ1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: Yes, we're taking them in. fer Prime Minister Blair: The President: I think you're doing fine. I'm just worried about whether we're doing enough and how to do it. I think having you there and securing the airport is about what you should be doing. You don't have enough people to venture out, and I would hate to see you go out and be shot into fodder. I think we need more troops. They will be scared if the Nigerians come in there in full force and the Indians are willing to do so. I may want to call you again if you think there is something else we should do. Let me know if we can hel . ou. You've done a good thing. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: I agree with that. You keep chewing on that. I'll get back to you on that and on the Irish thing. ~ \E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) \ CONPIDEIJ'PIAL CONFIDENTIAL 5 ,.=p",r=i=m=e==M=~=·n=~='s=t~e=r=B=l=a=i=r:..::~_O:...:k..::.:a::::y,-,~B::..~::..·1::..::..1.:..J' IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: It's too bad the unionists won't let you kick the can down the road a bit. If you could, the issue would become relatively less important to both sides once things are up and running. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: How's mama Cherie doing? Prim~ Minister Blair: producing. (U) The President: IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Fine. (U) She's about a week away from Is she in a bad humor about being big? Prime Minister Blair: She's okay. (U) She's been in court today. (U) The President: Good! (U) Prime Minister Blair: She's going to court to take on the government over parental leave. Don't even talk to me about it. She is great, but she could produce at any time. (U) The President: That's great. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Thanks. Alright, I'll see you soon. Okay, Bill. Bye. (u). (U) -- End of Conversation CONFIDEN'1'IAL (U) CONPIDEN'f'IAL 1.40 THE: WHITE HOUSE WAS H I N,GTO N ...r r-< z MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION < p" SUBJECT: Telcon with Prime Minister Blair of the United Kingdom (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: DATE, TIME Hi, Bill. Prime Minister Blair: The President: p" < r-;;..c, ","'l Q,.., =. =- DATE, TIME AND PLACE ~,..,;Q The President: Hello, Tony? Prime Minister Blair: The President: Hi, Bill. Where are you? CI::~;;r (U) "'l;;;>lI"l ~UZ Z"'lO ;;;>00 .... (U) Are you here? ~>,.., (U) ,),~ 8~ NZ 0·0 .... Z,.., ..J~ "'lUU ~U ""Z"'l "'l .... r::"'l~ ~r:: oo\.!)\o OO~N ~CI::~ ~OO ~OO .... ~~ ~..J Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I'm just driving in from the airport ..J"'l U,.., . uU "'lzq 00'" now, complete with baby. (U) ~_"'l -~ The President: Really? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Yes, Cherie is coming with me and making a speech in New York at some lawyer thing, so we have to bring the baby with us. (U) The President: That's great. Where are you staying? (U) I hope I get to see your baby. Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CONFIDENTIAL 2 CONFIDBlffIAL lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Here's the problem we've got. First of all, I won't do anything until I see you. I don't want to jam you in public. Our guys tell me that Lott .will basically shut down the Senate and not even do China if we don't do something, and now our Foreign Sales Corporation plan was rejected. It is not a political thing with me. I am not running for election, and I don't want to do anything to hurt you, but, on the other hand, I can't take the risk they will shut the Senate down. The real damage will be if they walk away from the China issue. That is my p~oblem, We ought to talk tomorrow. We are going to. have dinner tomorrow, right? ~ Prime Minister Blair: Right. (u) The President: Why don't we talk a little and see if there is any reasonable prospect. If I could just get either one of these things resolved. They are killing me on the FSC and the other thing. They know, or at least I know, you tried to help us on both of these things. I just can'.t let them shut the thing down on me. JR1' Prime Minister Blair: / L -__________ ~------------------------------~/ The President: There might be. don't we talk again tomorrow. Prime Minister Blair: Let me talk to our people. Je1 Why Okay. lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: The real problem on the banana issue is a feeling over here that there is an Anglo-Irish company that is the main beneficiary of not resolving the issue. That is adding to the heat. But the issue isn't a political one for me. We were able to avoid putting cashmere on the list last time. You had those elections in Scotland, and I took a lot of crap the last time. It is not a political thing with me, it's just that I've got to do business with these people for the next six weeks. I can't run the risk of having this blamed on me or being accused of acting on the basis of a personal relationship, and I can't do anything to hurt Al. I think he is going to win, but it is tight as a tick. (p1 CONFIJ;;BNTIAL @OHFIDBHTIAL 3 IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Prime Minister Blair: (gap) (U) The President: So when we tried to run it by them that you were trying to help us, they said how can that be, this Anglo-Irish company is the main beneficiary? Normally I do what I want but Congress has a big oar in the water. (gap) Why don't you talk" to your folks, and I'll talk to you tomorrow. Maybe it will be alright to call Lott, what the hell. This has been dragging on so long. (gap) about as long as I can, and I can't run the risk they would use that as a pretext against something as profoundly important as China. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Okay, lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: I think that is quite possible. I know the heat they are getting, and I know where it is coming from. But it might be helpful, if we could have any indication we could get that or the FSC thing resolved. Both are hanging out there feeding on each other. And, in the Senate, it is not totally confined to the Republicans either. ye1 Prime Minister Blair: I totally understand, okay.~ The President: Okay, so I get to see your baby? will see you tomorrow. (U) Prime Minister Blair: Alright, Bill, all the best. End of Conversation -- CONFIDENTIAL Alright, I (U) .. ..: .;- . SECRET DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL, E.O.13S26, SECTION s.3(b)(3) ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 90 DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October ]4, 20]5 TH E WH ITE HOUSE WASHINGTON l.4L-- MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Rob Hargis, Tina Yarmchuk, Kurt Van der Walde, and Don Cheramie DATE, TIME AND PLACE The President: October 12, 2000, 9:11 - 9:19 a.m. EDT Chappaqua, NY Hello? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hello .Bill? Hey, Tony. (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: It's a terrible situation. It's terrible what happened to your servicemen. I want to express my sympathies. If there is anything I can do, I am glad to. It looks like it is spinning out of control. je1 The President: I tried for days. We had two I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Now, we don't know who blew up our ship. We know there have been terrorist elements trainin for something like this. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Now you have these SECRET 2 instabilities working against each other. t E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: tE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) t The President: Let me te you w at my pans are. I'm In New Yor , we Just celebrated our 25 th anniversary. What a romantic background. I'm on my way back to the· off;Lce. It will take about 2 hours. I will call you back when I get there. I've tried to put something concrete together for two days. I '11 get back to you when I get to. Washington. ~ Prime Minister Blair: Biarritz. I'm going off to the EU Council in tE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) t The President: t Prime Minister Blair: it to me. J.e1 E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) If you need anything from us, please pass The President: I will. Right now what we need is a nonjudgmental break. For God's sake, let's get past this and start talking. I'll know more later. ~ Prime Minister Blair: 'Let us know what we can do. ).e1 The President: Hell, in a 100 days you can call me to go to places like Biarritz to go skiing. God really doesn't want me to ease my way out. -ter Prime Minister Blair: SECRET Take care Bill. (U) The President: Bye. Prime Minister Blair; Bye. ,yer End of Conversation .- 5 i .i INT0 :THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Robert Hargis, Don Cheramie, Tina Yarmchuk, Kurt Van der Walde, and Dick Norland DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: October 13, 2000, 3:36-3:59 p.m. EDT Oval Office Hi Tony. Prime Minister Blair: (U) Hi Bill. How are you? (U) The President: Well, we haven't been sleeping much, but we've been on the phone for the ast two days. We may be near putting something together. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) Prime Minister Blair: The President: for two days now, and I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d) lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I to work on the 13526, section . . - IN-TON EHOTOCOPY ,gf 13526, section 13526, section . LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY . I I 5 IE.a. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The presirjent:Okay. Good-bye. Prime Minister Blair: Bye. (U) (U) End of Conversation i3BCRBT eONFIDEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASHINGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Rob Hargis, Dianne Ruschaupt, Jill Sandler and Dick Norland, DATE, TIME AND PLACE The President: November 10, 2000, 3:40 - 3:54 p.m. EDT Army-NaVy Country Club Hello? Prime Minister Blair: The President: CU) Hi, Bill. (U) Hi, Tony.' How are you? Prime Minister Blair: brilliantly. (U) Fine. (U) How are you? Hillary just did The Pre.sident: She did great. And it looks tome like Al' s got the votes, but we don't know if theY'll get counted. --+er Prime Minister Blair: Well, what's going to happen? +et The President: I don't know. They still have to count 5,000 overseas ballots. It's a very confusing situation. There was an illegal ballot in Florida, where they use a punch card system. The Bush people are trying to bully him. Some votes went to Buchanan and there are 19,000 ballots for him that were disqualified, and they were African-Americans. Usually, you'd just say "tough," but here you've got a situation where Gore won the popular vote. He picked up five points in five days and also pulled out a huge minority vote, I just hope he can pull it out. Last night we had former Presidents Ford, Bush, Carter, and Lyndon Johnson's widow, and we all made reassuring sounds to the public. --tel CONFIDENtpIAL Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke Reason: 1.5 ($1) . -" "."~ __ c~ .•~~~~--~"~~ Declassify On: 11~·mO~"-".. .'; !' ';. . INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY 1 -:::.>';~ ~~~;_ ,___ ,""".-~Y;':~'-;::.-)i:;..."':.':"::o-~~,,",- }-----: ,;.~--; CGUFI8EH'fIAL 2 Prime Minister Blair: Where is public opinion? ~ The President: Most want it settled but they don't understand the issue. They do not understand how clearly these votes were for Gore. They cite Nixon not challenging in Illinois. The dif·ference is that i f Nixon had won Illinois, he still would not have won the electoral vote. It's really bogus. Hillary is doing great, happy as a clam. I am really proud of her. -+eJ Prime Minister Blair: Well, Hillary did wonderful. Give her our love. She was just fantastic during the campaign. She was so strong and brave. I thought she was just great. J,M. The President: She was . . Je( Prime Minister Blair: brilliant. (..et' Well, Cheri sends her love. Hillary was The President: Yeah, she was the "Little Engine That Could." I wish you were with me, I'm playing golf. The three guys with me are on the green right now. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The thing I wanted to say to you was on Northern Ireland. I think if you still want and are able to come over, I think you could playa part in putting this together. We had a bit of a breakdown, but it should not be terminal because both sides want this to happen now. There are certain thin s we have to do and certain thin s the re ublicans have to do. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I Trimble is really getting it done in the government as the government is working well. ~ The President: I saw what he said about no North-South cooperation before they reengage. But the problem now is that ( C) the IRA can't appear to be caving in to a unionist demand. Prime Minister Blair: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CGHPI8ENTIAL COHFIDEN'fIAL IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I 3 I think it ·would be great if you came over, and people really welcome it. I had a word with Trimble, and I think he is keen about it as well. He is desperate to make this work· and so is McGuinness. We need something new, something different to come in and sort it out a bit. ~ The President: What's your thought? ker Prime Minister Blair: The President: When do you want me to come? Prime Minister Blair: ~ Sometime in early December. ~ The President: We are working on this agreement with North Korea to try to get them to end their missile program, and I leave this weekend for Vietnam. It sounds weird but it will be hard for me to take two more trips but I might be able to do them both. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: here? J...e7 Do you want us to leave some of those deportees Prime Minister Blair: CONFIDEN'FIAL IE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I CONFIDEN'fIAL 4 lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I In the end it would be up to you if you cando this, but I think it is possible to put together a deal, and you wouldn't just be visiting, but you would actually be helping to get the deal done. )£1 The President: if I can come? . Do you want me to do some work on this and see ~ Prime Minister Blair: Yes. We can meet the Irish in the next two or three days to try to get a common position with them, and we will brief your guys on it. I can send you a note with the elements of the deal 'on it. je} The President: That would be wonderful. You know I want to if I can. I realiy want to get this m.issile deal in Korea done, it will make us all a lot safer. I'll tell Hillary that you called. .-k€1 Prime Minister Blair: The President: CONFIDBN'3'IAL (U) He's perfect, just great. Wonderful. The Prime Minister: (U) The President: (U) How is your baby doing? The Prime Minister: The President: Thank you. (U) I'll get to work on this. Bye-bye. (U) (U) . All the best. Prime Minister Blair: . . - - NIH-43W: . i?r-v?n I 3? Bye. End of Conversation 1 .Iv'w {2:5 . CONFIDEN'fIAL THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with the British Prime Minister Blair (U) PARTICIPANTS: The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: Sean Tarver, Frank Jarosinski, Jill Sandler, Clark Lystra, Dick Norland and Ian Bowles DATE, TIME AND PLACE The President: November 23, 2000, 9:10-10:06 a.m. EST Camp David, Maryland Hello, Tony? Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hello, Bill. (U) Hey, Tony, How. are you? Prime Minister Blair: you? (U) I'm fine. I'm fine. (U) I'm in good form, but how are The President:. I'm doing great. I had a good trip to Vietnam. I'm still jet lagged. I guess it's just old age. (U) Prime Minister Blair: It was a great visit. (U) The President: It was great for us.and generally for encouraging a force for change within Vietnam. They tried to discourage the people, but they came out in droves. Sixty percent of the country is under thirty years old, so they are all kids. Most of them are thinking about tomorrow and there are not a lot of elderly people. The Chairman of the party in Saigon was talking. up private sector activity -- he sounded like the mayor of a big mid-western city. It was like a chamber of commerce speech. ~ Prime Minister Blair: CONFIDENTIAL That's good. .CONFIDEN1'IAL 2 The President: On the other side, the General Secretary said first we have to get what happened in the war straight. He said I'm glad you were against it. Your visit has· helped us a lot. Our Ambassador, Pete Peterson, was in the Hanoi Hilton for six years. I said we were debating the nature of the conflict, but . let's get one thing straight: we were not friends. Now ~hat you have a united country, we are still having the same debate about how much of these things are eternal questions and how you have to join the debate. )e} Prime Minister Blair: returned to.? (J27 It looks fascinating -- but what have you . The President: Between you and me, here's the problem. We always knew this could happen where someone could win the popular vote but lose the electoral college. You have electoral votes that correspond to representation in the House and then you get two more for your Senators, so it gives more influence to smaller states. The other argument in the old days was that we didn't have the telegraph, so we needed honest people to come and say how the people voted.and now that is obviously unnecessary. This happened only twice before where nobody could get a majority. In 1876 and 1888 we had a case where the winner of the popular vote lost the electoral college. In both times, the results were clouded and controversial, but largely the South was still solidly democratic. It was against the people who won the Civil War so you had fluky results. This is just a case where it just happened that 40,000 votes out of 200 million people is what the dispute in Florida is about. Gore has said he will not challenge the electoral college, but he wants to make sure that if Bush is given Florida that the people who showed up got their vote counted. The truth is, Tony, everybody knows Florida had complicated procedures.. They used a ballot a lot of older people couldn't read, and more people intended to vote for Gore than Bush. You still have ten thousands blacks in one precinct. They were going to vote for Gore. Ten thousand uncounted votes in one county and six thousand in another. You have nineteen thousand predominately blacks in Palm Beach County who punched Buchanan and then punched Gore. That is another sixteen thousand votes for Gore. Then you had thirty two hundred Jewish people who voted for Buchanan and we had a statistician say it was a trillion to one shot that Buchanan could have gotten that many votes. The real question is:. can Gore re-enfranchise enough people to win the elections instead of the Republicans? The Secretary of State was Bush's campaign chairman and now the Republican House is threatening to make him CONP IDEN'l'IAL CONFIDEN'fIAL 3 President if the electoral votes go to Gore or not. The Florida constitution says if you can divine the intention of the voter, the vote should be counted and ironically, everything Bush is fighting in Florida in the recount is precisely what the law he signed in Texas requires. Any indentation at all these voters make is supposed to count. ~ Prime Minister Blair: So what's your bet? ~ The President: I don't know. On the merits, Gore should win, if we can re-enfranchise enough voters, but even the Florida Supreme Court, they issued a great decision for Gore but Miami Dade said· "we can't finish by Sunday, so we are not going to do ·it at all." So now they have to decide whether they can get their own order by delaying. They don't need to have any of this done until December 12th, but you know the Florida Legislature is Republican. The Republican Congress is threatening to change the law and they would throw it into the House. But if they do that, he will be destroyed and he never will recover. Je1 Prime Minister Blair: What ~s your opinion? jZ1 The President: Right now it's evenly divided because the process is confusing but generally thought to be fair. The Republicans are great spin meisters. They just say it differently. It is a power grab. N~w we probably will not get the ones reenfranchised who double voted on that illegal ballot, but the truth is, if these people were running for State Legislature, under the law, those courts would get those votes to Gore. They just don't have the courage to do it in a presidential election. You have heard only a slightly biased opinion. If I thought Bush won fair and square, I would tell Al to pack it in, but Gore has on the merits of those who voted, the stronger claim. So Bush is just trying to run out the clock. That's why they are desperate to shut it down because they know Gore lost a lot more votes in those that were thrown out. I don't know what. is going to happen. ))2t Prime Minister Blair: Really amazing. jef The President: I think we will work it out and be all right. It is very important to remember that the whole right wing in America desperately wants this and they still control the Congress. There are.other things we can talk about when I see you because Gore carne back 4-5 percent last week and he started running his campaign on continuing the progress of the last CONFIDEN''fIAL r~",::-:~~~AR~P:OIDcO:t _," \ <-~~2;~_:_~.~::-,,",;'.:,~~~~.~~~ .. :-_,~- __ '::_-e ..;:--~!, 4 CONFIDENTIAL eight years and it was obvious to me in the last 48 hours, I told one of our people, he might win the popular vote and lose the electoral college, I don't think there is any question that if everybody in Florida had'their vote counted as intended, Gore would have won by thirty thousand votes. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The right wing press here has just been desperate for Bush. ~ The President: They are all upset that the military people got disenfranchised because they came out in force for Governor Bush so he carried them 2 to 1. But World War II veterans and holocaust, survivors, they were perfectly fine with having them disenfranchised. ~ Prime Minister Blair: They are a lot more ruthless than our folks aren't they? ..(..G1The President: They are. They hate us more than we hate them. It's all about power to them. They don't care as much about government, they just want the power. I will tell you more when I see you. I have not said ~ublicly what I just told you. I have to be President here. The New York Times finally went after the Republicans today. They said they are just over reaching. I wouldn't even be surprised to see the u.s. Supreme Court try to overturn the Florida Supreme Court. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Blimey. JGr So here we are. Jet Prime Minister Blair: As I say, I can't wait to see you. are going to have a good talk about it. ktJ We The President: Yes. Let's talk about that. Did our people tell you we might be able to come over on the 12th and maybe go to Belfast and Dublin on the 13 th 'and 14 th? ...(.G)Prime Minister Blair: The President: Any time. % Is that soon enough? ke1 Prime Minister ~lair: I've got to go to Zagreb tonight to this European Balkans thing. ~ The -President: COMFIDENIIAL I'm really glad you are going. jkn' 5 CONFIDENTIAL Prime Minister Blair: will talk on the plane about Steinberg will fill you in. there with Bertie Ahern and we outlines of an a reement.Jim r=~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Yes. tet Prime Minister Blair: I am going to go through with Bertie tonight what are the three more difficult issues: IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I What we aim to have by the middle of. next week is a package we agree on. The right package to go with. But I would have thought the 12th_14th is about the right time. k-e1" The President: Okay, I will set it up. I can do whatever in England. I am coming there basically for you, so I will do whatever helps you the most. I can come to Chequers or maybe give a speech at Oxford. I thought about talking about five or six major issues the whole world will face together over the next ten years. Something that would keep the Third Way thing going, but I don't have to give a speech at all. I am interested in helping you. ~ Prime Minister Blair: That is very good of you, Bill. I think a speech on that theme would be very useful. Why don't I give some thought to where it should be. We got an inkling, and it's fine with us, that you preferred outside of London. (C) The President: No. I just thought that if we went to London, you would have to do a big dinner or something. I wanted to help you politically and push our agenda. If it helps you, I am happy to do that. J.et Prime Minister Blair: on that basis. J.Q1 The President: That is really kind of you. r will work If you think it is better, r will .go to Oxford. ..keJ Prime Minister Blair: through. --+Gt- CONFIDE~nL'l.L That is great. r will think that 6 ,CONFIDEN'fIAL The President: The only caveat might be if we have timing problems because the 12th is the day all the electors are supposed to be certified and there might be some reason I have to wait until the next morning to come. But I went to Brunei and Vietnam and the best I can do is show the' country that everything is just chugging along. If in the next week something goes haywire, I will call you. ker Prime Minister Blair: I certainly think a speech is good and my instinct is to stay outside of London. We can get some private time as well. That is my instinct. But why don't I go through it with my folks and we will come back to you with clear suggestions. ~ The President: Okay. Prime Minister Blair: the 14th? () ~ So you will be here on the 12 th , through The President: Yes. My thought is the 12th'with you and to go to Belfast on the 13 th . Maybe Dublin too, or on the 14th -- might 'have to allow two days in Be~fast. If there is actually some sort of deal cooked that you need me to bless, we might be able to allocate a whole day to be there to work this. I am going to allow for that, but I think I just have to wait and see. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I will be in a better position once I speak to Bertie tonight and take the temperature of the people over the weekend. I don't want to land you in something where you only have a half day. fer The President: I won't do that. That's why I left a day open. ~ Prime Minister Blair: The President: Okay. .JR'f Can we talk about the Hague and climate change? ( C) Prime Minister Blai'r: Absolutely. (..e1" The President: You know, first of all, thank you for helping moderate the EU position so that we can all have agreement. I think you and Dutch are key for an agreement. The French and the Germans aren't there yet. I have to tell you where the politics are going to be in,the United States. We have Congress evenly divided. We have Republicans ,acknowledging, even Bush, CONFIDEN'fL~L ~~~Y:H::COPYJ . , '.,::,~2:--' =-~~~~~_~J. ,~~.'~ ;."-:..;<:.}~ . .,: ;,--.;~_J~. _", CGNFIDENTL\L 7 that this is a real problem. Something has to be done. We now have through this partnership with Detroit on the next generation of vehicles that Al Gore spearheaded, we got these cars that will get 80 mpg. We are trying hard. The last step is chemical research, which would help everybody and make your oil money good for 30 years. Bio-mass fuels can help us get something like seven or even eight times more efficient gas or oil than we have today. That is about a third of the problem with transportation. We are also trying to get this massive progress to rapidly accelerate the construction industry. We have another plan for dealing with our utilities and heavy manufacturing which is the last third. Finally, after being treat€d like I was trying to wreck the economy, we are finally - getting broad acknowledgement. If we get what we need on the sinks, forests and all our potential, the gain is something like 300 million tons. We are prepared to go down to less than a third of that, but we need to get something. We will be flexible, but we need to get something. I think we are down to 125. I think it is a mistake to put limits on emission 'trading because that is a real killer for us politically. I think it would be seen for what it is, that Europe wants to try to make America adopt its tax struct~re and reduce our emissions in the least efficient way. It would give us less incenti ve-. So the problem may get worse as we get better. I think it is bad policy. Even Bush acknowledges it. Right now, about two House seats left to be decided. The Senate is 50-50 if Bush wins but 51-49 if Al wins because Lieberman would leave his Senate seat and the Governor of Connecticut is a Republican and would appoint a Republican. _There are enough Democrats from energy producing areas that i f this looks like we are getting a bad deal, that will hurt us. It also sends the wrong message to developing countries. What matters is not the results, but how we achieve it. I think it is important to get an agreement. If we get no agreement, we just give the reactionaries an excuse to walk away. >¢) Prime Minister Blair: Here's my take. I just spoke with John who is headin our delegation over there, on the sinks lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I you can The president: Absolutely. We are prepared to take the overall number lower than the science indicates. I think the other thing is you want to have some encouragement in this document for sinks. We also need to do something about the rain forests - an approach that is totally voluntary. ~ CONFIDEM'fIAL CONFIDEN'FIAL 8 Prime Minister Blair: IE.a. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Yes. But the French proposal is to tax itself. We said, "Let's establish a fund." I don't think any other countries have done this as much as we have. We have done it in two contexts in America with pollutants. We had quicker compliance with clean air efforts at lower costs than the people projected. Every time we did it, it worked faster and cheaper. I understand why some Europeans want to limit trading in any way, but it is a big mistake. Developing countries are important. They don't have much of a problem, but you have to give them the incentive to take action. ~ Prime Minister Blair: I am totally in agreement with you. IE.a. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I emJF IDE~JT L,\L ,COllfFIBEM'fIAL 9 The President: Yes. I will push our proposal on a fund more and make it attractive to the G-77 and you want us to buck up Aznar and Guterres. jQY Prime Minister Blair: Yes. And Schroeder. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: We ought to be more for a market solution here. ( e) Prime-Minister Blair: Exactly. 02? The President: The regulation sh9uld be the outcome, but how to get there should be left to the most efficient means. Let me ask something else. How did your visit with Putin go? (e) Prime Minister Blair: It was fine. Very interesting . He' feels that he is not understood about the problems he is facing there. He was very anxious to impress me. He wanted to see America as }Q1 a partner, I think. The President: I think he does, depending on who wins our elections, it might take a while to get it going, but the more time you can spend with him the better. I think he is a guy with a lot of ability and ambitions for the Russians. His intentions are generally honorable and straightforward, but he just hasn't made up his mind yet. He could get squishy on democracy. -+e7 Prime Minister Blair: lE.o. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Politically, he has got to be with the Arabs on the Middle East dispute, but I told him one real problem you have here is that it is not clear how much can be controlled in CQNFIDi:WTI7\ 1. tONFIDEN'PIAL this situation. 10 . Violence beqets violence. I I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I If you are the st'ronger person, that is what you have to do. It was like (gap) but I think especially for the next year, whoever is President here, and until we get organized, the more time you spend with him, the more it will payoff. jJCJ L--;--:-_ _--;-_...-----;-_-;----II Prime Minister Blair: Yes. I will carryon with it. I think the other thing is he is only now choosing the people around );lim. That really matters in terms of what is being pumped into his ears. He is highly intelligent. ~ The President: Yes. A lot of people pour crap in. He wants to do a good job and he works at.it every day. He is intelligent and disciplined. The last thing. I know you had a meeting with Barak, and I know you're worried. I am doing my best. We've made little headwa toda. I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I am doing my best but yqu see what the problem is, don't 'you? ;er . Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Did you tell him Prime Minister Blair: speak to him. CONFIDRN'PIAL that?~ Yes, I have. I will follow E.O.13526,section 1.4(b)(d) and COnFIDEN''fIAL 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) lE.o. 11 I l . . . - - -_ _ _ _ _ ----'I The President: It is interesting. The Israelis have good substantive policies, but the level of misunderstanding between the two sides is pretty high. ~ Prime Minister Blair: ) ~------The President: I agree with that. +G+Pr~me Minister Blair: We will try. IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I The President: Yes. We're trying to take another run at him on that and maybe we'll get some movement today. I am really glad you are going to this Balkans conference. Tell all those Balkan guys I said hello. I am thrilled about what you are doing. I think America will do its part out there, no matter what you're hearing out of the Bush campaign. ~ Prime Minister. Blair: Bill. -+er The President: Thank you so much. Prime Minister Blair: The President: Ridiculous isn't it. (U) How is the Senator? Happy as a clam. Happy Thanksgiving, (U) Chelsea asked about Leo. (U) Prime Minister Blair: He is absolutely great and you will see when you come over. (U) The President: I know Chelsea is coming. Hillary wants to but she still has to sort out some scheduling things. I hope we see you on the 12th. (C) Prime Minister Blair: Okay. (U) The President: 12 Good?bye. (U) End of Conversation I - ?9 INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY Iv" ?Lu; - r'Hr v-u . . ~ • CONFTDE:N1'I"L • THE WHITE HOUSE WASH INGTON MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION SUBJECT: Telcon with British Prime" Minister Blair PARTICIPANTS: " The President Prime Minister Blair Notetakers: DATE, TIME AND PLACE: The President: Michael Manning and Clark Lystra December 13, 2000, 4:30-4:41 a.m. EST Belfast, Ireland Hello? (U) Prime Minister Blair: Hello? The President: (U) Good. Prime Minister Blair: The President: (U) Hi, Bill, how are you doing? Did you get some rest? Yes, a little. (U) (U) (U) Prime Minister Blair: It was amazing coverage of your visit yesterday. It was unbelievable. In Northern Ireland, it "looks ( C) good. Did you speak to Adams and Seamus this morning? The President: No. Our people have been talking. what they are going to say to you. ~ Prime Minister Blair: What's that? (gap) I know (U) The President: That the Sinn Fein view is that before the election campaigns in the UK, there ought to be a deal on demilitarization and decommissioning. They want to delay on Patten and can't embrace it right now. They will not cooperate directly on the Real IRA. We need to talk to them on the input they would do. There need to be more arrests in Omagh. Anyway, all they said was that they couldn't do more. Seamus Mallon is in a particular situation, you know, and the problem is that he says he will not agree yet on a police force. He may agree on one if arrests are made or something and if we find out more we will tell you, but I think you have to flush them out. I will CONFIDE}lTI."tL Reason: 1.5