OHIO BUREAU OF CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION INTERVIEW OF Patricia Coleman CASE NUMBER: SI-18-12-82-1493 EXHIBIT: 25 DATE OF INTERVIEW: AGENTS ASSIGNED: Thomas Verhiley / John Saraya Legend: TV = (Thomas Verhiley) JS = (John Saraya) PC = (Patricia Coleman) JZ = (Jerry Zarlenga) RP = (Robert Phillips) BB = (Brian Betley) ….= unintelligible, undistinguishable Transcribed by: Greg Dunham JS We have been tasked with the criminal investigation alright um I have been here for about 15 years. I was 9 years cop in the Youngstown area. We have been mixed up with officer involved shootings forever for the whole time I have been here at BCI. And um as such …… warrants that not because we think you did anything wrong but our rule is this is criminal … rights and privileges. If at any time you have a question of us please ask it if something comes up and you want to step outside in the hallway and confer feel free. PC Okay. JS Okay, um here again, um don’t take some of the questions personal um were trying to a list details we want you to expound on something things like at um … there’s a couple questions in hear the that the guys have looked at as kina funny um were asking everybody the same basic questions … continuated a little differently because you didn’t shoot um things like that but for the most part its getting the same basic questions. PC Okay JS Alright. Any questions ya got? PC No JS Okay. And of course um please be honest don’t if you don’t know don’t fall back on the old cop speak. Just say you don’t know. PC Okay. JS Alright. Um, okay. Okay let’s start with the Miranda warnings. It says you have the right to remain silent and thing you say can and will be used against you in court. You have the right to console with an attorney and have an attorney present during questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney one can be provided to you before questioning at no cost. Do you understand these rights? PC Yes. JS Okay. Um we said we are recording this on video right now. Um we have a pretty good microphone but if you start getting to quite I am going to ask you to speak up. PC Okay. JS Okay. Um your full name name? PC Patricia P A T R I C I A (spelled out) Ann Coleman C O L E M A N (spelled out) 2 JS Okay. Your home address? PC JS Okay. Number I can reach you at a cell phone or something PC JS Okay and your date of birth PC JS Okay, um, obviously if anything happens under records request all that information is redacted. PC Okay JS Okay. Um first thing we are gonna start off with is how are you holding up with all this going on? PC Okay. JS Okay. No problems or anything? PC No JS Okay good. What is your current assignment? PC I am currently assigned to the second district vice unit sergeant JS Okay. You are in uniform now plain clothes normally? PC Ummm plain clothes normally JS Okay. Um how many years have you been with Cleveland? PC 24 JS Any police department before that or no? PC No. JS Very good. Um what is the shift assignment you were working? PC On that day? 3 JS Um yes. PC Um I’m trying to think. It was either 1700 or 1800 hours. I can’t remember. JS ... PC …… 0100 or 0200 JS Okay. And who do you report to? PC um just a commander. When I come into duty? JS Yeah PC I don’t report to a ….. JS Okay, um, your normal chain of command would put you who would be the next one up the chain for you. PC I would check with my lieutenant. JS Which is lieutenant? PC Mone. M O N E (spelled out). JS Okay um your days off when this happened PC Um on a Sunday Monday. I mean wait Saturday Sunday sorry JS Just rotated... PC Yes. JS Okay. If you need a moment to re compose yourself. PC No, that’s okay. JS If any questions, that’s okay too. Umm any extra details, open shifts, or anything that week before Tuesday or Wednesday before this happens? PC I don’t understand what you’re getting at. JS Were you working any extra overtime, details, any side jobs. PC No. 4 JS Alright on Thursday the 29th how were you feeling? Tired, sleepy, sneezy, flu like. PC Fine. JS Fine. Okay. Um any medications, prescriptions, over the counters? PC JS . . PC . JS ? PC . JS PC . JS PC . . JS Okay, alright do you wear corrective lenses? Contacts? PC Cheaters and I had that um eye surgery. JS Lasik. PC Yeah. JS Okay so you need the glasses to read the reports. PC Right. JS I know exactly what you’re talking about. I had lasik myself. Okay. Okay um Thursday you were working how are you attired, what are you wearing? PC Um that day I was in um tennis shoes, blue jeans, and I …. I believe a long sleeved t-shirt with this with my vest on and my CPDs so sweatshirt over. JS Um, a tactical vest or just the regular? 5 JS/PC ………. PC No, no I don’t have a tactical one I just got I just transferred up into vice so. JS Okay, CPD hoodie. PC Um yeah not a hoodie just a ya know …. JS Okay um what kinda gear you carrying um what’s on your you wearing ….. PC I had handcuffs and my um … JS Okay. PC …. Weapon …… JS Okay um pistol, magazines? PC Just, just like weapon. JS Just the weapon okay no extra magazines um handcuffs. PC Handcuffs I might ….. JS Flashlight. PC I can’t remember if I had my flashlight what happen was we came back from doing an assignment and … took all our stuff off and then. JS Um okay. PC I, I got dressed but I know that I can’t remember if I put my flashlight back on or not. JS Okay um so you’re not carrying an extra magazines with you at this time? PC No. JS Okay um okay, back up weapons? PC No. JS Ummm personal recording devices, a digital recorder? PC No. 6 JS Pocket camera nothing like that? PC No. JS Okay, what car were you in? PC I was in um Ray what kind a cars are those that .. driving JZ Um dodge um dodge chargers. PC Dodge Charger. JS Unmarked then. PC Unmarked, yes. I was the passenger. JS Okay um do you know what the car number is? PC What number I go by? JS No, no, not the, the call sign the car number? PC Um no. JS No? Okay. Okay what’s your call sign that night? PC 2 2 Sammy 1. JS Okay, you were a passenger who were you riding with? PC Um Officer Bill Miranda. JS Okay. He’s driving ...? PC Yes JS Cars got lights and sirens in it? PC Yes. JS Everything functional. PC Yes JS What channel are you operating on? 7 PC 2. JS Channel 2 or tact 2? PC When that, when that happened when this incident happened JS Yeah. PC We were channel 2. JS You were channel 2 during pursuit okay. PC I hesitate cause sometimes when we are doing stuff we go to tact 2. JS Right. Okay um you um have any extra training um instructor, narcotics anything like that that needs extra certifications ….. On your training PC No. JS No, okay any military experience? PC No. JS Um have you qualified with your weapon this year? PC Yes. JS And handgun, shotgun, rifles what? PC Handgun, shotgun. JS Okay, um. PC Taser. JS Taser. Okay um did you receive any use of force training or review in the past year? PC Yes, that our yearling training that’s included. JS Okay, and your OPOTA certificate is current and up to date? PC Yes. JS Okay, have you been involved in any other shootings prior to this? 8 PC I’ve been shot at twice. JS Have you ever fired your gun before? PC No. JS Okay, alright, you get to ramble now. Let’s start off very simple ahh how did your shift start how was it going? What was going on? PC … Our shift was good um did a buy for a warrant on a house they were coming back to a ahh everyone was coming back at actually to start out paperwork handle ahh the grand jury packages that they need for the ummm morning the Lieutenant since the grand jury. JS Umm hmmm. PC I was getting ready to do my paper work to schedule my subpoenas check in for ... JS Okay then what happened next? PC I went downstairs ahh was drinking a coffee and I heard over radio that I heard policeman say that he was shot at and I recognized the voice. JS And that was? PC Officer Nan from ahh community services unit JS Okay, what happened? PC At that point I ran upstairs and told everybody that I was working with that night to grab their vest and their gear up because a policeman was just shot at. And someone mentioned, someone mentioned who? And I screamed “Nan. Get your stuff,” and and I told make sure everyone had their vest. JS Okay so how many people are you talking too? PC Officer Miranda, umm, well I am calling them officers they are detectives but ahh detective Slupball detective Frankis Fairchild Graves and ahh Paula Mitchell. JS Okay, what happens then? PC We all everyone’s grabbing their stuff I grab my vest umm gun was getting dressed I grabbed my stuff and cpd sweatshirt and we all just started heading … when I went out the door I don’t know who was still grabbing stuff but me and there was a kina all ran down the steps and we exited and I …. we exited the side 9 door I asked who has a car and Billy Miranda was standing right there and he had the keys and the car was right there so I jumped in with him. JS Just dove in with him? Okay was this in the back parking lot where your PC yeah JS where the garage is PC yeah JS in the back PC yeah the car was right next to the like the gas pump. JS okay. Where’s the pursuit at this time PC I’m not sure where I was at right when we got in the car I would ….i don’t know if they were heading towards 85th maybe. JS um k now what do you guys do? PC we start heading west towards and then we ah start heading towards Clark … we were believe when down 41st cause we thought maybe they were going to get on the highway. There’s ahh entrance to the highway way on west 85th. Then they past that then we went down to Clark JS um k PC we go down to Clark and I am not even sure if ……went 41st or …I can’t remember. I know we end up on Clark. Then the broadcast is that he was starting I think 73rd and then he came to ahh west 65th and I told officer Miranda detective Miranda that he’s coming there coming right at us JS what was the crossing at 65th PC 65th and Clark. We were about I would say no we were going west bound on Clark we were about 61st and the suspects’ vehicle was coming right down the middle of Clark at I’d say about 60 miles an hour and I told Brent I said move out of the way he aint gonna stop. Ya know get out of the way don’t get us hit. So he pulled JS you were facing east bound at this point PC no we were we were facing west bound and he was coming east bound at us. So we we had a moved out of the way or he would a hit us and we kinda circled 10 around and came out and then that positioned us into like I’d say third or fourth spot. JS PC okay what ….. Next he goes down Clark sometime it seemed like he slowed down but I mean I think on Clark he was just hauling he was really there was a few times I ya know just like … bracing myself put my foot up and just umm goes down Clark to …..He takes turns right on ….. Took up by the steel yard. JS did you hit the round about PC um hits the roundabout I think ahh someone broadcast that they though he was throwing something out the car window I we were we were still back a ….. And that we followed them um... roundabout I couldn’t see how he did that round about. Then he goes down what about 14th and at that point I basically was like okay hes probally going to go all the way down and get on the highway. Ya know that is what I am thinking to myself. But were... ya know were following them I was kinda giving I don’t even know if they broadcast …. That the guy was going to get on the highway but it obviously that’s what he did. I mean cars were behind him he gets on the high way and I think we moved up to basically position I don’t even maybe we were still four and he tried to get off he tried to exit the highway I think maybe at Chester. Like two times he tried to exit but here was and then there seemed like there wasn’t there were some traffic on the highway but I don’t know if cause police cars were behind us that it was like they stopped traffic like but it kinda seemed like and the civilians that were on the highway didn’t like what they usually do if they see a police car they didn’t come to a dead stop. Which was like weird to me they slowed down but but were like it just seemed like … this is crazy. JS um PC So we did past dead mans curve and now we end up being there’s I believe was it one of my ……. Drove by a Fairchild. Me and Miranda and there was this old car trying to pull up to the side of side of suspects’ car getting close to it JS Um okay PC I know at that point I brought … to whom evers driving 243 Adam do not drive up to the side of that car they have shot at police officers and they will shot. JS um okay PC at this point they kinda they move over a lane 243 um and the passenger turns and reaches and points like this 11 JS okay you can see the passenger do that PC Yes I start yelling at… Miranda slow down don’t get to close JS when she did that did she go over her left shoulder with the right hand? PC she went exactly like this JS Okay PC and at this time I want to make this clear to I did not know it was a female. JS okay PC okay and I did not know it was a female until the following night when I heard it on the news JS okay PC okay the whole time I thought it was two males were … she did that several times and I was like …. So we stayed back and then that’s when a little a few seconds after that that’s when they darted across then got off at east 72nd they kinda spun out of control for a minute but I ya know i thought maybe they we would have had them right there. …………. And kept going. JS okay PC also on the highway I remember someone broadcasting that they thought they were losing a tire but I looked cause I was the passenger I look on and see and I was like no this chase is still gonna and that’s JS Still keeping the same speed still moving. … Exited at PC east 72nd umm … JS ……. PC they exited at east 72nd and they were heading southbound and the officers who were broad casting like was … he announced I’m gonna try the best I can but I don’t know this area. JS okay 12 PC at this point me and Miranda are the we take over the lead spot because how he spun out of control and stuff this old car is kinda... went to follow him and when he regained we were right behind them. JS okay PC so we are the lead car. Um I tell you know keep your distance their gonna their gonna be going down some side streets and umm I, I believe one more time she turns around on 72nd does the reach over pointing and I was like ya know so were kind fade back a little bit but and then I look up and the driver has his window up and his window is half way down and he’s casually smoking a cigarette and I was like ahh are you kidding me so I say to Miranda I can’t believe this look at this and he was like he is smoking a cigarette umm we turned on Saint Clair we go right up Saint Clair so we are heading east bound from there I am not going to be able to tell you what streets he went down he was going all over sometimes I was broadcasting I think sometimes Seafer was JS oaky PC you know cause they were following us and we were trying to maintain. Umm I know at one point we were on east 79th and he the suspects here …. Fairchild gets in front of us a little bit and his car and the suspect just decides to make a turn down a side street hits the front end of his car and then keeps going. Fairchild goes straight misses the street and then we were back in the ……. For a brief moment. JS so he turns left right in front of Fairchild and Fairchild’s car hits … PC right. JS okay what happens next PC umm we just went down numerous streets umm kinda headed towards police cars that were in the chase but they they ahh swerved to avoid being struck and ahh and I, I ….. on the umm we were on the main road I don’t know if it was Euclid for a long time were on that street it just seemed and there was no traffic coming on the street sorry. And I believe that it’s because I believe out of... ya know saw police cars blocking the intersection. JS Okay PC I can’t remember what street it was a side street bust East Cleveland car came flying through and I was like all my god it was seconds and it he …. At us it would have been bad. 13 JS Okay PC ….. Continued broadcasting ahhh. JS What do you mean broadcasting? PC Just the direction I’m I’m kinda giving the direction of travel sometimes cause ahh that’s where I first when I first came out I worked on the east side JS Okay. PC Side know some of the streets better. Umm I don’t know at one point the passenger starts doing this motion. JS Okay. PC And she her shoulder and I say to Miranda oh my god what is she doing and he god it looks like she is loading on. I go and it looks like she loading magazines to me. And he says she’s doing something so I broadcast that and I told him wanna be careful that it looked like she was …… was the passenger was loading……. JS Okay . PC Umm we kept out ………then he pulled in and I can’t remember when they took my statement that night Cleveland police I mean Cleveland police they might have they were saying it was …. Pizza. I have no idea what what it was. JS Okay. PC They pulled into a business. JS Okay. PC Then I told Billy Miranda this is it this is not gonna end good we need to go home to our kids be careful I believe they were gonna pull in that restaurant and come out of the car and it was basically me and him cause we pulled in right at right next to ya know right behind them. JS ….. PC They start going around the side of the building and all of a sudden they go over …. Concrete or something the little thing went over that ran over some bushes and then their out on that street. JS Okay. 14 PC The street that takes them to . JS Okay. So they back up the street and what happens? PC We we pulled round and there is another a driveway on the side so we pull out but then here comes police cars up passing us so we can’t get out. JS Marked cars? PC Yes. JS Okay. PC I can’t remember how many marked cars finally we went the street was you couldn’t it was like eerie it was all smoky. JS Um. PC Uhh, we drove up I remember broadcasting that they pulled into a water treatment plant and they were in the parking lot and I can’t remember if I said make ya know let’s try to block the the exit so they are trapped and and as we were coming down pulling into the school drive way maybe half way that’s when I heard two two or three shots fired and I broadcasted shots were fired. JS So you hearing the shots coming from outside. PC Coming from. JS And you said shots fired. PC Right. JS Ok, what happens next. PC Next thing I know here he comes here comes the suspects’ car coming back up and I was like all my god. He’s coming at some how he got around all these policemen and he’s coming right back up towards us. JS Ok. PC He is at the moment in time he is moving eerily to me slow and in my head or in my ya know and I was like Billy be careful and I was like duck ya know he might shoot at us we at this point we both ducked. JS Ok. 15 PC Next thing I know is you hear more shots I am on the floor I am on the floor board of the car between the seat I mean I my whole body was and I had my gun up in the air look-in out the passenger window trying to look ya know peak up and I’m screaming at Billy are they coming for us? Are they coming for us? I thought they were coming bailed out of the car was a AK47 and was... JS Ok. PC Umm I, I just remember I kept screaming at him ya know are they coming for us or are they coming and he was like I don’t know I can’t see I can’t see anything and ahh then he was like stay down sarge. stay down this aint good this aint good and then I was like what are we gonna do and he was like we gotta keep we gotta get the fuck out of this car and I go and then he look I don’t…..can you see anything are the coming or…….what going on I can’t see shit. So we so he said he kinda look out the mirror and saw ya know just I don’t know... just then … he … finally I think it’s good for us to go now and I was like are you sure and he goes we gotta get to the front of the car that’s the only that’s the only thing that’s gonna help us protect us so we basic basically we both counted say …. What are we gonna do this he goes were gonna count to three and at three we are gonna go. And we both counted to three and then came out. JS And what was going on then? PC Uh, I saw... JS It’s okay. Okay box of tissues back here let me get it. [long pause] PC Thanks. JS Okay. PC I saw car 217 the windows were all shot up and I can’t remember the other police car. And the suspects’ car was totally shot up …… and I, I knew I though the people in 217 were dead. I, I remember screaming …ceasefire and then they all stopped. I don’t know if cars were behind us involved shoot ya know from our car cause I mean I we were stuck on … car... I was did not think I was going home. Ya know I was just like. So after that I ran up and was ya know grabbed another police man and totally checked I is every then I was like who the hells driving 217 who’s in 217? So I found out that that was Brelo and Moore and the other car involved was Sistek and I can’t remember it’s the new guys name I don’t know what his name is … Chris something…. JS Ok. 16 PC And I there’s policemen all over the place … I don't even know I was grabbing them and I was like check yourself, make sure you’re not shot ‘cause I knew a lot of shot heard a lot of shots fired and I knew and I just wanted to make sure everyone was okay. At this time I believe East Cleveland Fire Department was there checking the checking the two in the car. Ahhh I don’t know if I start saying get crime scene tap I just remember me make sure everybody was okay and I couldn’t believe more Brelo and Moore were fine. And I was like so I grabbed them litterly myself and checked them like I was checking for weapon on a suspect. JS Ok PC Ya know Moore and I believe I ya know told someone we gotta start making new crime scene and try getting people away ahh I believe other supervisors kinda came on scene. JS Ok PC Umm ….. One someone approached me and said did anybody see Sispeck did anybody see Sispeck and I was like why ….. And they go because Sispeck fell on the ground we though he was dead. So then I went in panic mode again looking all over for him and I don’t know if he was if I just couldn’t find him in the crowd or and I asked … if he was okay and he said sarge the vehicle was coming at me and I jumped out and I start shooting and if I felt … go by me and I hit the ground. JS Alright, come back …….. Look familiar? PC Yeah. JS Ok, the described vehicle comes in, Moore is here … is down here at the bottom of the page. PC Ok JS Ok. You got your layout okay so you come rolling in where do you end up at here? PC Ok, we come in here go here and … that’s my car. JS That’s you right there? PC Yeah. JS Okay, so while you’re here you were hearing what do you see in front of you as as you’re pulling in, let’s start there? 17 PC Alright, as I’m pulling in... We are right about here or I don’t know there is cars down in this area. JS right PC Ok, and that’s when it he the suspect car kinda comes around in here in then I hear the shots fired and I don’t know if he … he must’ve come up this way JS So you’re seeing are you seeing the cars moving around up here circling around? PC Their cars are coming like circling some are here like he goes down this way and I think some cars went here and he just avoided it. I don't know how he avoided all those cars. JS Ok. As for you hearing the gun fire. PC Gunfire, yeah. JS Ok. PC Then I’m in this area. I, I don’t know exactly where I’m at when. JS Up here by the islands. PC Right. JS Ok. So you guys are stopped you see the suspect car coming down at you now. PC Were I … yeah we’re yeah ahh yeah right here and he he’s coming from here like here. Just going slow and then or it appeared to me slow. JS Could you hear the engine on the suspect car now that it’s passed you? PC No. JS Ok. Can you see in the car at the people inside? As it’s coming past you. PC I, I from a distance I saw that they were two ya know where they were coming but then we hit it. JS Ok. You couldn’t see if ahh they’re looking around or eyes straight ahead climbing into the back seat or anything else? PC No. 18 JS You just know that they’re in it. PC Yeah they’re in the front seat. JS Ok. Alright so they go pass you here and you guys are hunkered down. PC Uh-huh. JS Alright, now you say you get out you can hear gunfire while you were in the car? PC Oh yeah, I’ll have …… it’s like it was like a AK-47. JS Ok. PC More gunfire then I’ve ever heard. And then I was like oh my god and ya know I’m not going to see my kid ya know. I’m thinking I don’t she’s home with my with her cousin and what the hell is going to happen someone gonna not … i… screaming. JS Ok. You get out of the car here. PC Yeah. JS You said you looked down what are you seeing here is the shooting still going on now when you get out you are looking or had it stopped? PC I, when I first get out I hear a couple like it’s still going on and I yelled watch your crossfire ‘cause I don’t know and then it stopped. JS Ok. Are you seeing any officers moving around over here or anything? PC I…… no, I, no. JS Ok. Do me a favor go ahead and take this all I want you to do is mark off where you’re at there for me. Circle your car. Okay. Umm and initial it and your badge number please. Okay, thank you. Umm, go back over a few other details here. Okay when you end up down around ahh Clark and quickly somebody broadcast they think they’re throwing something out of the window PC I don’t know if it was Clark and quickly or it was by the steel yard JS Okay, do you remember who broadcast that or? PC No. 19 JS But somewhere down around steel yard. PC Right. And I know two which were broadcasted was from what a guy in my unit that broadcasted that he thought somebody had um pop can or gloves in their hand. Broadcast. That was Fairchild. JS Ok. Umm you’re behind the car on 90. PC Yes. JS Ok. And you’re pretty close now ahh close enough to see into the suspects’ vehicle and you’re seeing the passenger turn around. PC Right JS Ok. umm and I need you to clarify exactly what kind of motion you’re seeing. Can you tell that the passenger is holding anything or? PC All I see is they reach back with their hand like she was I mean my reaction was that she was pointing a weapon at us. JS Ok. PC Ok. She did that we would back off it was almost like she was in a … it was almost like the passenger was playing a game with us. When we get close enough that maybe they ya know that she he would turn and point. And then the only other motion was when she she was doing this. JS Ok. PC Though acting dead to me the motion was from my my police experience shooting at the range it is at your load magazine and I broadcasted that. JS Ok. Did you turn and point at you you guys would drop back? PC Yes. JS Ok. PC I remember telling my telling Miranda that we got kids, that we gotta go home, and during the chase I decided this this aint gonna be good. This aint gonna end good and I don’t know if it’s because of the motion and but I, I know I said that after I saw the magazine I was like it was ... and when I said…. What the hell … he agreed with me he was like oh no. 20 JS Ok. Umm, do you see any type of interaction between the drive or the passenger? Are they grabbing onto each other pushing each other around anything like that? PC No. All I could tell is I was just dumbfounded when I saw the driver smoking. JS Ok PC ‘Cause like he was on a Sunday drive and the window was half open which I, I, I never notice then I wasn’t sure that I even communicated that with Officer Miranda until the other day I was like did I mention that and he said yeah we talked about that so it’s just. JS Ok. umm You’re behind the car, do you hear anything like gunfire are you hearing any any sounds like that? PC When we? JS While you were chasing. PC No. JS The pursuit itself. PC no JS Are you hearing the car backfire at all? PC When we were following that car from east 72nd to where the pulled in ….. that ya know it never back fired. JS Yeah. PC Never. JS Okay, at various points you’re seeing the suspect car going head on at other zone cars. PC Yes. JS About how many times do you think that happened? PC I’d say at least three or four, there was one street it and it’s just another act that I just can’t like in this parking lot, like how he came back, how he came out and was coming at us again was amazing. JS Ok. 21 PC But on these side streets, he would do the same thing, there would be parked cars and a police car and he would just maneuver right around. JS Ok. When they went past you head on, you gained the pursuit you said the car comes at you. Do you turn and watch it go by or are you looking in the car, can you see anybody when they go past you then? PC …. JS The very first contact you have with the car. RP ……. PC Yeah, I see. JS …… PC I see two people and I was like get move move they’re not gonna stop, they’re gonna hit us. So get ya know get the hell out of the way. JS Do you see the driver turn and acknowledge you guys over there? PC Ahh, no, no I don’t see. JS No. PC No. JS He’s just focused straight ahead. PC Yeah, he’s, yeah JS Ok. PC I am really surprised that as fast as he was going down Clark that he did not hit any pedestrians on that road ‘cause Fulton. JS How fast do you think you were going? PC I, I say about 60, 65 especially down by like ahh Fulton and then there is a McDonald’s and Burger King right in that area. TV Is it heavy traffic, would you say light traffic? 22 PC Umm like Clark was medium, and then like the, um, highway, like I said, everything seemed to back off because I think cars were behind us and the kinda stopped the … traffic and then on I think it was Euclid or whatever that main road we were on for the longest time I, I believe zone cars were stopping. JS Blocking. PC Blocking the intersections. JS Ok. Umm. PC And I did run the plate to, when, during, I think it was on 72nd I ran the plate because I remember ahh I think the initial car ran the plate, and the dispatcher never broadcasted anything on it, so I ran it on 72nd just to see what are we dealing, I don’t know if he’s in a stolen car, and they broadcasted whoever it came back to, but it was not stolen. JS Ok. On that main street, was he blowing lights? Was he going through red lights? PC Oh yeah …………………. PC Actually, think some zone cars were our district were blocking traffic just keeping our, trying to get ….of the of where he was at knowing that he was going at the... JS Yeah. PC Speed. JS Okay. Alright, now you said, you thought it was two males, did you remember the initial broadcast by there? What you described when he called it out? PC Yeah. JS What did he broadcast? PC Just two males just popped around, I think he said, or popped popped around at us. JS Okay. PC And I remember an older car and then that when we ran, when I ran up and got my ya know my radio and. 23 JS Okay. Umm, when you said it wasn’t until the next day you found out it was a female. PC … yeah the next ahh yeah cause I got home at like 9 or let’s see yea cause its Thursday so it would Friday and about 630 news my daughter was getting ready and they announced that the passenger was a female. JS ok. Umm PC I was, I was shocked because I went up to the car, ya know, and looked in and was like alright, you know, I, you know, I just, I just thought it was two, two- JS Guys. PC Guys. JS Ok. Umm have you heard the names of the suspects? PC I know, ahh, one of the was the who the car came back to. It wasn’t that car, like it wasn’t the plate came back to his name but it was not the right car. JS Ok. But ahh, you hear, ahh Russell’s name. PC Yeah. JS And Malissa Williams. PC Right. JS Ok. Never hear the names before, they don’t sound familiar to you or? PC Um, never. JS Ok. Don’t remember the names from any other calls or any other contact you had? PC No. JS Ok. Ok. Umm about how far away do you think you are here? This is going to be a subjective question. ….. I’m going ask a couple ….. How far do you think you’re away here suspect vehicle? ….. Pursuit pretty close but this point in time about how far away PC I’d say about 10 feet. 24 JS Ok. … Another one these subjective questions here. Your opinion about how much light do you have in this parking light? Street lights over head lights, head lights what does it feel like to you? PC Umm.... I mean parts of it seems like it was pretty light, but I think that’s when the police command boss came and then we had light umm probably not so good light when it all started because then they put this big bus here and it this was all lit up. JS Ok as you’re looking at the windshield of your car driving up there you are seeing headlights parking lot lights there is overheads going on [PC/JS talking over each other] JS When you’re coming up here, and the suspect car comes down, how much light, there’s enough you can see what’s going on, is it a coal mine at midnight is it? PC No, it was, I mean … all the police lights were going the red and blue and... JS Is there enough light you can see what’s going on, is it easier to see, do you think is it kinda dark? This is your interpretation. PC I won’t say it was easier to see. JS Ok. PC I mean when it start when that car start coming back up umm …. Are you kidding me and I was like ya know I am... and we hit the deck ya know I was scared at that point that they were going to shot at me and all all my belief for being a policeman for 24 years, it is that they were going to shoot right through the windshield and not ya know at through the window and we hit the deck and never never got out until it was basically over. JS Ok. Do you hear anybody when you get out of the car you looking down here, do you hear anybody shouting any verbal commands or anything yelling at the suspects in the car your yelling watch cross fires can you hear anybody else yelling anything? PC No, I’m, I yelled watch your cross fire and then it just seemed like ahh not even a few seconds it just all seemed to stop and then I remember, I remember someone screaming for EMS, call EMS, call EMS. JS … Do you know who that was? PC No, I don’t and that’s the point where I am totally just … police cars and and I am just like I can’t believe ya know I’m …. thinking policemen are dead. 25 JS Ummm. PC And I actually …. I don’t know so policemen went up and said the suspects were and then I remember East Cleveland Fire, just seemed fire kinda part because I think the suspect really wanted to go around this route and he just made a wrong turn but I think he’s …. Up here and came down …. And were like no. JS Ok. TV How long after did that occur when East Cleveland fire responded or were they right there or PC Yeah, I didn’t seem like it took them long but I like said I was I was actually grabbing people and checking on and I was like I cannot believe and I was like I remember ahh grabbing Moore and Brelow especially an checking them. TV Right. PC And I remember, ahh, I remember Moore was pretty upset, Brelo was upset, but I was like just check you gotta check your ya know then I remember hearing that ahh what was it Randy Patrick had might have been hurt yeah and I went I found him and he didn’t he had a piece of glass in his head but was…. TV Superficial. PC So then I kinda got everybody and even told the other districts check check who ever you’re with and make sure know one is shot. JS Ok. PC And all they had to do was stop. JS With everything you saw and hear during this pursuit, would you have fired your gun at them do you think? The way things went down hear you hearing shots fired up here there coming past you if they would have ran into your car do you think you would have? PC Yeah … yeah, I would’ve. JS Ok. PC I, I believe that the that they were armed and the information giving by Nan from their actions from the pointing out the back window two to three times and … 26 actions …..like passenger was loading magazines and I still believe in my heart that all that information is true, I mean it’s gonna in the end it’s gonna show proof that. JS Ok. PC I would’ve never broadcast the information that I saw if that is not what. JS Ok. Were there... this is a subjective question, is there any other options available to you or did any other officer hear it? PC Option was for them to stop. JS Ok. PC If they would have stopped this would have never happened. And we tried I mean I called for the helicopter, we called for spike strips, we ya know couldn’t do the ahh pit maneuver they turned their car, and they’d be facing a policeman head on especially supposedly being armed suspects. JS Did you ever see anybody try to do a pit on them? PC No JS No. Anybody offer up on their radio to get close enough to pit them? PC No, I don’t think so. ‘Cause I was thinking ‘cause we were so close and I was like ahh …. I mean me myself as a supervisor being first car with him. I mean there could have been an opportunity that we could of just like fish tailed them and making these corners but I was like …. JS Didn’t think. PC I didn’t think it was for the safety purposes. At East 72nd, he spun out a little bit and I, I actually thought okay this is it but we just somehow hit the gas and keep going got back on the road. JS Ok. You don’t know who called for EMS…… PC Yeah, I don’t know who called for EMS. JS Ok. Umm everything is quieting down, ahh what are your actions, you checking officers, ahh you walked up to the car you looked in the suspect vehicle? PC Right. 27 JS Ok. PC I was looking to see if ya know where they were I looked I see two men which I believed I just glanced with my flashlight looked to see if I saw rounds weapon just like ya know …. I just I thought what I appeared to be like a round in his hand I thought that the driver but hear when I looked put my flashlight it looked like it was a belt buckle JS Ok. So you didn’t touch anything you didn’t reach inside. PC No JS Ok. As everything is quieting down where are the officers saying standing around the scene. PC Umm. JS …….. PC I was trying to get figure, I was trying to figure out who was the shooters and well first I asked them each to try to figure out who their partner was and get their partner ….. I know everyone’s okay I... it was like almost a roll call. I tried to give it the scene and then I was trying to ya know figure about who shot who didn’t and I tried to … on the shooter stand in this area in a group so when I … got there. JS So you started separating everybody. PC Yeah, I had well the partners were kinda over here... shooters... but then ahh officer box a shotgun and he was just walking around with that and I was like give me that and I took that shotgun and I put in my in my car locked it in the trunk. TV I’m sorry who did you take that from? PC Officer Box? JS B O X (spelled out) ok. Alright who did you talk to about this besides your representation here? PC Well when I got home I told my daughter cause I didn’t get home till... she’s getting ready to walk out with her cousin mom what are so I told her what happened so … I said be careful she said no you be careful now. Umm friend of mine ya know called me I don’t know if it was on the news but she said are you alright and I was like yea just exhausted really didn’t get into much ya know just she was like so glad you are okay. I said I was scared as hell and never been in a 28 scarier in my life, umm my other half who was out hunting I called him and told him what happened JS Any the guys you work with, any other officers? PC Umm, I’ve talked to I talked to … O’Neil and the next night after the news came out that it was a female, she texted me and was it a female did you hear it was a the passenger a female, and I said yea i just saw that I’ve talked to well that night after the shooting me and Billy Miranda of course ahh captain drove us back to the district and once we got back to the district we ya know just talked about how unbelievable it was and all and how scared, and I asked him if he was and he was like shit yea I’m scared and just went over a few things like the guy smoking and just basically just exhausted I, I have contacted everyone whose number I’ve had and asked them if they were okay, if they needed anything I need to talk I’m here, ya know or in … talk to the employees assistance ask them to reach out to a couple officers that were mainly in these cars right here cause I was concerned. JS Ok. PC With the way how upset they were ya know. I’ve talked to ahh you know mainly people that ……supervisors to I just got this job not that long ago. So I know most of the people. I know … so I saw him one day when he came … gym to work out. I asked him how he was doing and stuff and he said his wife is worse than he is about it and I told him ya know employee assistance will work with her too and he said they kinda got a support group that she is talking to so I’ve tried to contact everybody that’s been involved ya know either text them, couple I’ve called and they have answered their phones, I’ve called everybody, I’ve contacted everybody of course in my unit ….. Mostly of us well only two aren’t back to work from from second district vice unit but I’ve contacted an told them they needed anything. JS Ok. Umm these are questions that we have been asking everybody you’re at the scene did you use your cell phone. PC Umm, my cell phone I left it at the district I ran out. JS Ok. Did you see ahh anybody up using their cell phone to take pictures at the scene? PC No, ahhh there was a East Cleveland person there standing by the car but I don’t know she was just like securing scene cause they taped it off and that was it ya know. JS Ok. Ahh do you believe your actions were consistence with your training? 29 PC Yes, if I had to do this all again I wouldn’t change one thing. Well, the only thing I’d change is that they they should of stopped. JS So you wouldn’t change your actions … PC I wouldn’t change my actions, no. JS The other officers you saw there you think their actions are consistent with their training. PC Yes. JS Ok. Bear with me on this one. Has anyone asked you to lie or otherwise try to influence your statement? PC No. As a matter of fact I told everybody, tell the truth and we’ll all be fine. …. The officer that was in my unit that said he saw ahh pop can of … I don’t even know… he was he came to me and he was upset. JS Ok. PC And I said is that what you thought you saw and he said yeah, and I said then don’t that’s what you saw I said don’t want to make you change, I mean if that what you you gloves and pop whatever say it don’t ya know he was just thinking ahh maybe I should ya know, I said don’t that is part of you, you’re observing you broadcasting what you observe JS Ok. PC He was like do you know what was in the car yet ,and I said no and I don’t think we’ll we’ll know for quite some time, but I don’t know if that is bothered him or he’s got young kids too and I know it’s being broadcast over the news and JS Ok. Anything we haven’t asked you that you think is important we should know? PC Umm just their actions that night what they did and every time we got close and how passenger would reach like she’s holding a weapon and pointing and and continually do that and the the action this just JS Ok. Do you ever see the passenger reaching towards the door turning the other way or is she constantly turning towards the other side of the car? PC I never saw but I heard someone say that when she when they went on 72nd it was almost like she was pulling on the door like to stop it from opening but I never. JS Ok. Do you remember who that was? 30 PC Umm, no I was like I don’t remember that but. TV They pulling the passenger door close back towards her and the? PC Like it, yeah. TV Ok. PC Like, like it was going to swing open or something I don’t know I didn’t I would say but ya know they kinda spun out so maybe she just got … I don’t know. TV Thing maybe they were trying to hold on something okay. TV You don’t remember who that was? PC No. TV Ok. JS You said she turned around towards the inside …. Reached around about how many times? PC Two, three times, I’d say. JS Ok. PC And I know I, I broadcasted that. JS Ok. Anything you guys want to ask or inquire about? BB Mo I think this is you covered the water …. JZ I’m trying to think if there’s anything but ahh sounds like everything…. A to Z was covered here. JS Okay ……… PC Next time I’ll bring my GPS well it’s not going to be a next time but hey (laugh) 31 32